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 Post subject: Question about DOS'd sites
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:32 pm 
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What exactly happens when someone dos's a website?
sorry if this is an incredibly noob question but i am a noob :P heh


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:23 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Effectively, it gets so much garbage traffic that the good traffic can't get through, kinda like if 200 people all tried to phone you at once and you only had 5 phone lines, 195 people are gonna get a busy signal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 pm 
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oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
so when someone dos's a website, they are just noobs and use a script. no actually hacking at all?
thats what i thought. :P ty fer da info i prolly coulda gotten from google heh

ty :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:55 pm 
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Right. Generally you send a flood of SYN packets, which causes the server to try to open a huge amount of connections. Eventually the number of connections becomes so high that the server crashes.

DOSing is for noobies, yes :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:49 pm 
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wow. and all this time i thought this person had actual computer skills. well, so much for my theory lol

what f**king script PARHELIA IS THE GREATEST VIDEO CARD EVER!

note: if u want a list of what he has done to me/my homies, ill be glad. we are actually in the works of a class action lawsuit lol :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:49 pm 
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DoS attacks aren't hard to protect from. DDoS attacks are harder to protect from, but still not very hard. Any good firewall solution would work just fine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:29 pm 
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LOL! apparently
" f ag"
means PARHELIA IS THE GREATEST VIDEO CARD EVER!

lolol
kewl
like ma'h'nual lol


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:35 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Zambini wrote:
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
so when someone dos's a website, they are just noobs and use a script. no actually hacking at all?
thats what i thought. :P ty fer da info i prolly coulda gotten from google heh

ty :D

Well, hold on just one second. While many 'scripts' exist for DDOS attacks, there are many kinds of DDOS attacks and understanding how and why they work isn't just a topic amonst noobs. A well coordinated DDOS attack does show some signs of intelligence in the same way that it isn't hard to learn how chess pieces move around the board - coordinating their movement otoh.

Another point. Many admins like to call people who employ scripts to attack sites 'script kiddies'. It implies that the attacker is not a programmer and lacks a true understanding of computing. Of course, most admins should rightfully be called 'script adminies'. After all, most admins do not know how to code either and they've fallen victim to a simple attack. Doesn't that indicate their knowledge might be a bit lacking as well?

* or their resources, implementation, or something else hasn't allowed them to properly configure their servers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:29 am 
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yea this guy i know who dos's sites for a living and uses flood scripts that flood teamspeak, and yet if i kick one of the *New Players* it will stop the script. helloooo noob.
at life


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:25 am 
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Gadget wrote:
Well, hold on just one second. While many 'scripts' exist for DDOS attacks, there are many kinds of DDOS attacks and understanding how and why they work isn't just a topic amonst noobs. A well coordinated DDOS attack does show some signs of intelligence in the same way that it isn't hard to learn how chess pieces move around the board - coordinating their movement otoh.

Psh, you give it too much credit. DDOS attacks aren't complicated and do not require a complicated "well coordinated" scheme to launch them. What exaclty is a"well coordinated" DDOS attack? Either you get flooded by shit-load of connections or you don't. Most DDOS attacks are usually "coordinated" by bots sitting in the IRC channel, which when given a single command, they all start flooding a certain port. No mystery there. DDOS attacks are indeed for newbs, DDOS attacks lack innovation, ingenuity, and most of all skill.

Gadget wrote:
Another point. Many admins like to call people who employ scripts to attack sites 'script kiddies'. It implies that the attacker is not a programmer and lacks a true understanding of computing.
Agreed.

Gadget wrote:
Of course, most admins should rightfully be called 'script adminies'. After all, most admins do not know how to code either and they've fallen victim to a simple attack. Doesn't that indicate their knowledge might be a bit lacking as well?
Not entirely. An effective sys admin does not need to know socket programming. They just need to know how packet switched networks function at the transport layer. Regardless, even if you have a a knowledgable sysadmin, he/she can't stop an attack from flooding their incoming bandwidth (unles they have access to routers further up than their immediate routers).

On a side note, the only "script adminies" i've met that were ignorant about their systems were all Windows admins. When I ask them about *nix systems, they all typically respond with, "uhh, all you Linux people just want to make your desktop look like Windows." Heh, how do I respond to that lol.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:23 pm 
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even a simple NAT firewall with port stealth can subvert a SYN flood since most use a script style attack, but it only attacks if it sees a valid IP and ports.
Something basic like a SMC Barricade does a better job for windows boxes...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:40 pm 
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hey people who dos sites
Zambini wrote:
helloooo noob.
at life


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:39 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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kkith wrote:
Psh, you give it too much credit. DDOS attacks aren't complicated and do not require a complicated "well coordinated" scheme to launch them. What exaclty is a"well coordinated" DDOS attack?

To be clear, I never said that DDOS attacks are complicated, and you're correct, they certainly don't need to be well coordinated. However, there are a few variables that may indicate an attacker using a DDOS has some skill. The type of packet(s) being utilized may, or may not, be effective; choosing which servers to attack, and in what order and with which type(s) of packets (which is what I meant by coordinated); how to foil load balancing and firewalls; ultimately knowing how to escalate an attack after one or more servers do go down; etc.

kkith wrote:
DDOS attacks are indeed for newbs, DDOS attacks lack innovation, ingenuity, and most of all skill.

You're assumption is that they are only used by noobs, which isn't true. They are simply one of the tools available to both talented and noobs.

kkith wrote:
Not entirely. An effective sys admin does not need to know socket programming. They just need to know how packet switched networks function at the transport layer. Regardless, even if you have a a knowledgable sysadmin, he/she can't stop an attack from flooding their incoming bandwidth (unles they have access to routers further up than their immediate routers).

I didn't mean that they should learn socket programming - like 'script kiddies', most sys admins also rely on pre-existing scripts, applications, practices, etc. Many of them would be hard pressed to write a decent shell script these days.

kkith wrote:
On a side note, the only "script adminies" i've met that were ignorant about their systems were all Windows admins. When I ask them about *nix systems, they all typically respond with, "uhh, all you Linux people just want to make your desktop look like Windows." Heh, how do I respond to that lol.

Exactly my thoughts. =)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:41 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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screwballl wrote:
Something basic like a SMC Barricade does a better job for windows boxes...

I use a Barricade... picked up two of them on sale at compusa for $30 each. Wish they were an AP too though.


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