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 Post subject: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:03 am 
Little Foot
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gsxrsquid I don't see where that's coming from, I've used Nortons since there's been a Nortons, and for being a long time subscriber to Nortons I am NOW getting a "FREE" version update after the beta has completed from Nortons 360 v4 to the final version. I've tried numerous other security suites/anti-virus programs including free that CLAIM they will protect you, BUT!!! You get what you pay for.

***Looks at everyone in the forum ***That's right, I'm a Nortons fanboy**** (g) I love a product that WORKS!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:37 pm 
Boy in Black
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New thread was hit instead of Reply. Talking in the wind my friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:50 am 
Million Club 2+ [PC]
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Mike_Holli wrote:
gsxrsquid I don't see where that's coming from, I've used Nortons since there's been a Nortons, and for being a long time subscriber to Nortons I am NOW getting a "FREE" version update after the beta has completed from Nortons 360 v4 to the final version. I've tried numerous other security suites/anti-virus programs including free that CLAIM they will protect you, BUT!!! You get what you pay for.

***Looks at everyone in the forum ***That's right, I'm a Nortons fanboy**** (g) I love a product that WORKS!


You like a product that CAN be nuetered by a spyware/malware program. Interesting.


In case you are wondering what I mean by nuetered, I mean the spy/malware program sneaks in, installs and on reboot allows Norton(mcafe is volnerable aswell) start up, but disables its ability to detect anything on your machine until THAT infection is removed and then norton(and mcafee) will go "hey we found an infection". But until that infection is removed Norton(again, and mcafee) will not find a thing, will start up as normal, update as normal and tell you everything is hunky dory all the while you are oblivious to the fat you are infected until you machine starts to run slow and/or you start to get popups on your machine will you realize you've been hit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:03 am 
Little Foot
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But Logan, YOU failed to mention this is true of any retail/free product. Human interaction also has to be included. There's no such thing as a magic cure-all, YOU must run the scans to find any problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:13 am 
Willamette
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Logan wrote:
You like a product that CAN be nuetered by a spyware/malware program. Interesting.


In case you are wondering what I mean by nuetered, I mean the spy/malware program sneaks in, installs and on reboot allows Norton(mcafe is volnerable aswell) start up, but disables its ability to detect anything on your machine until THAT infection is removed and then norton(and mcafee) will go "hey we found an infection". But until that infection is removed Norton(again, and mcafee) will not find a thing, will start up as normal, update as normal and tell you everything is hunky dory all the while you are oblivious to the fat you are infected until you machine starts to run slow and/or you start to get popups on your machine will you realize you've been hit.


Actually, much as it pains me to say it, the newer NIS, NAV, etc. are nowhere near as susceptible to this as the previous iterations. Since they completely rewrote the apps and did it very well and rather functional, it truly has been a new ball game, tho I still have a little distrust in them for their previous misdeeds. And now I return you to your currently scheduled program.


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 Post subject: Re: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:33 am 
Million Club 2+ [PC]
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
Logan wrote:
You like a product that CAN be nuetered by a spyware/malware program. Interesting.


In case you are wondering what I mean by nuetered, I mean the spy/malware program sneaks in, installs and on reboot allows Norton(mcafe is volnerable aswell) start up, but disables its ability to detect anything on your machine until THAT infection is removed and then norton(and mcafee) will go "hey we found an infection". But until that infection is removed Norton(again, and mcafee) will not find a thing, will start up as normal, update as normal and tell you everything is hunky dory all the while you are oblivious to the fat you are infected until you machine starts to run slow and/or you start to get popups on your machine will you realize you've been hit.


Actually, much as it pains me to say it, the newer NIS, NAV, etc. are nowhere near as susceptible to this as the previous iterations. Since they completely rewrote the apps and did it very well and rather functional, it truly has been a new ball game, tho I still have a little distrust in them for their previous misdeeds. And now I return you to your currently scheduled program.


Tell that to the 4 customer I have had in the last month as they had 2010 and guess what, shock and awe peoples, it was render mute but spyware/malware.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:37 am 
Million Club 2+ [PC]
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Mike_Holli wrote:
But Logan, YOU failed to mention this is true of any retail/free product. Human interaction also has to be included. There's no such thing as a magic cure-all, YOU must run the scans to find any problems.


If the program has been rendered inoperable of FINDING anything, what fucking good is running a scan going to do you until you have removed the offending infection that is causing it? NONE, thats what. And I failed to mantion nothing as I have yet to come across a machine with Panda, TrendMicro, Kaspersky or any of the GOOD free programs being affected in this way.


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 Post subject: Re: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:23 am 
Willamette
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Logan wrote:
Tell that to the 4 customer I have had in the last month as they had 2010 and guess what, shock and awe peoples, it was render mute but spyware/malware.


No Software in the world can protect an idiot from themselves, proven fact. Even Windows Vista still lets you click until it gives in, lol. Simple rules need to be followed by computer users, and guess what, they rarely are by those who think they know more than us technicians. So, we end up cleaning up their mistakes, because they're nowhere near as bright as they like to think they are.

It's like telling a drunkard to not go into a dark alley to vomit after a night of binge drinking, cuz there are a lot of people there to beat them up n take their money. Do they listen? Hell no, they're too stupid to do it, so they do it, they get hurt, they go crying to the popo n the mess gets cleaned up. Relative enough to understand? Simply enough, if you play with fire, prepare to be burnt, otherwise, pay attention to the warning signs and you'll be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:18 am 
Million Club 2+ [PC]
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
Logan wrote:
Tell that to the 4 customer I have had in the last month as they had 2010 and guess what, shock and awe peoples, it was render mute but spyware/malware.


No Software in the world can protect an idiot from themselves, proven fact. Even Windows Vista still lets you click until it gives in, lol. Simple rules need to be followed by computer users, and guess what, they rarely are by those who think they know more than us technicians. So, we end up cleaning up their mistakes, because they're nowhere near as bright as they like to think they are.

It's like telling a drunkard to not go into a dark alley to vomit after a night of binge drinking, cuz there are a lot of people there to beat them up n take their money. Do they listen? Hell no, they're too stupid to do it, so they do it, they get hurt, they go crying to the popo n the mess gets cleaned up. Relative enough to understand? Simply enough, if you play with fire, prepare to be burnt, otherwise, pay attention to the warning signs and you'll be fine.


While I do agree you can't protect against stupidy, the problem with the cspyware/malwaer that does this to mcafee and norton is it uses a windows back door that they haven't closed to sneak in and then waits for the reboot. I dont know how they programmed it, but someohow, its the first app run at start up and thats it, norton and mcafee are nuetered. I have a sneaky suspision that it uses the Windows update to sneak in past norton as it may think its a windows update and lets it go.


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 Post subject: Re: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:05 pm 
Little Foot
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Quote:
Logan said

While I do agree you can't protect against stupidy, the problem with the cspyware/malwaer that does this to mcafee and norton is it uses a windows back door that they haven't closed to sneak in and then waits for the reboot. I dont know how they programmed it, but someohow, its the first app run at start up and thats it, norton and mcafee are nuetered. I have a sneaky suspision that it uses the Windows update to sneak in past norton as it may think its a windows update and lets it go.


Give me a break Logan, I and other users haven't gotten malware on our boxes for decades. We tried EVERYTHING ever invented in the realm of computers, the information I had given to you is solid, ONLY so much any system protection software/ap can do for you! How do you explain people like myself, Jipstyle, etc not HAVING a virus since Windows 98? WE know what to do to prevent this sort of thing from happening, and that's INCLUDES using protection software! Like they say you WOULDN'T have sex with a hooker without using PROTECTION!


Last edited by Mike_Holli on Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:06 pm 
Willamette
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That's where the stupidity comes into play. You don't just get those viruses from thin air, you get them from going to places where you ought not go. Porn sites, unknown shopping sites, opening up random emails (aka phishing emails), downloading torrents or other files you ought not be downloading, etc. I cannot tell you how many people have had issues like that as a result of using Limewire. I see that on their desktop and my eyes roll back in their sockets.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:16 pm 
Little Foot
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I agree with you there PM_DMNKLR, and for myself my teenage nephews drive me nuts with Limewire, I'm over almost weekly cleaning my sister's PCs, and uninstalling Limewire only to be back the following week to see it back again!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:33 pm 
Thunderbird
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ask them to use Frostwire - probably an optional alternative. You can even get free stickers!

i have never used Norton, because the earlier version i tried a long time ago made my PC slow while it had "maximum" security. yes i visit a lot of porn sites, and have gotten too many viruses over the years, but after cleaning the PC, i just do not go there anymore. coupled with some more knowledge of security and AVG + Microsoft Security Essentials, i think i am doing okay right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Norton's ripping us off "part 2"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:06 pm 
Million Club 2+ [PC]
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Mike_Holli wrote:
Quote:
Logan said

While I do agree you can't protect against stupidy, the problem with the cspyware/malwaer that does this to mcafee and norton is it uses a windows back door that they haven't closed to sneak in and then waits for the reboot. I dont know how they programmed it, but someohow, its the first app run at start up and thats it, norton and mcafee are nuetered. I have a sneaky suspision that it uses the Windows update to sneak in past norton as it may think its a windows update and lets it go.


Give me a break Logan, I and other users haven't gotten malware on our boxes for decades. We tried EVERYTHING ever invented in the realm of computers, the information I had given to you is solid, ONLY so much any system protection software/ap can do for you! How do you explain people like myself, Jipstyle, etc not HAVING a virus since Windows 98? WE know what to do to prevent this sort of thing from happening, and that's INCLUDES using protection software! Like they say you WOULDN'T have sex with a hooker without using PROTECTION!


You can have all the protection in the workd, but if you do a google search and click a link without lookings/previewing it and it has the infection that can and will disable norotn, YOU ARE FUCKED, I dont care who the fuck you you are, your are fucked and infected. There is stupid and then there is joe smoe who clicks anything and then there are those who still get infected even tho they do tale proper precautions when surfing the net.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:52 pm 
Willamette
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This reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the movie Daybreakers. "Being human in a world full of vampires is about as safe as bare-backin' it with a $5 whore..." (Willem Dafoe as Lionel 'Elvis' Cormac)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:18 am 
Little Foot
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Logan? That refers to a moron, how many people do you know that HAVE
any real knowledge of computers, and THATS stupid enough to do that? ffs
Logan comeon now, if you're really that lowend of an enduser, then it's time to go back to using a abacus - Sheesh.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:43 am 
Chief Surgeon
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Since this thread was created in error, and now is turning into a pissing contest, I'm flushing it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:26 am 
Java Junkie
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
That's where the stupidity comes into play. You don't just get those viruses from thin air, you get them from going to places where you ought not go. Porn sites, unknown shopping sites, opening up random emails (aka phishing emails), downloading torrents or other files you ought not be downloading, etc. I cannot tell you how many people have had issues like that as a result of using Limewire. I see that on their desktop and my eyes roll back in their sockets.


This is untrue.

It has been demonstrated time and again that simply hooking a Windows PC up to an open internet connection can cause it to become infected. You don't need to go to a particular site or open an email ... there are worms that propagate themselves across open networks.

Back in 2008, the Internet Storm Center published a reportshowing that an unprotected Windows XP box will become infected with malware within an average of 4 minutes of being connected to an open 'net connection.

4 minutes. No surfing. No email.

Now, Vista and 7 have default firewall rules setup and most people are using a router which (usually) have default filtering rules as well. This helps. In fact, I (like Chumly) believe that firewalls and hardware filtering are more effective in blocking attacks than software based scans. However, these need to be set up properly in order to be effective.


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