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 Post subject: DVD's vs. CDROMS
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:19 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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DVD-ROM's and burners have dropped considerably and are becoming standard faire on all new, shipping systems. I can remember five or so years ago when Gord Ung said that DVD's would be the king within a couple years...but no one is shipping DVD titles.

Until now...

A DVD disk shipped with the 3D Gaming special edition. When can we expect for the magazine to follow suite? And it has America's Army and Star Wars: Galaxies.

Let's face it. Within the next year or so, anyone that has a system with a CD-ROM only (or who can't afford to get a DVD) probably doesn't have a system to play the newest titles that would ship.

Let's see service packs and full demo's shipping.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:19 am 
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We ran a DVD for the gaming special just because there's so many huge demos out right now for the holidays. For most of the year though, there's not enough game demos out to fill an entire DVD, and it's kind of pointless to put several hundred utilities on a DVD as nobody would ever look at all of them.


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 Post subject: Re: DVD's vs. CDROMS
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:13 am 
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Wolfmann wrote:
DVD-ROM's and burners have dropped considerably and are becoming standard faire on all new, shipping systems. I can remember five or so years ago when Gord Ung said that DVD's would be the king within a couple years...but no one is shipping DVD titles.

Until now...

A DVD disk shipped with the 3D Gaming special edition. When can we expect for the magazine to follow suite? And it has America's Army and Star Wars: Galaxies.

Let's face it. Within the next year or so, anyone that has a system with a CD-ROM only (or who can't afford to get a DVD) probably doesn't have a system to play the newest titles that would ship.

Let's see service packs and full demo's shipping.
i dont have the money to buy a dvd drive. i have a pretty good pc, so you feel you have to punish people who dont have the money to buy a dvd drive.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:59 am 
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ill help u out athlon...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:01 am 
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hres the most expensive one i could find!
its 25.99 w/o shipping. that not that much....theres also 21.00 ones...theyre white though! the black looks SO much cooler! ur friends will be like wow! u didnt cheap out that new awesome black dvd drive did u!?!? see ill make u look good/cool. just follow my lead... 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:02 pm 
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well, i cant afford that, i had to buy a $140 calculator for calculus and im now broke.


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 Post subject: Re: DVD's vs. CDROMS
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:29 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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athlon11 wrote:
Wolfmann wrote:
DVD-ROM's and burners have dropped considerably and are becoming standard faire on all new, shipping systems. I can remember five or so years ago when Gord Ung said that DVD's would be the king within a couple years...but no one is shipping DVD titles.

Until now...

A DVD disk shipped with the 3D Gaming special edition. When can we expect for the magazine to follow suite? And it has America's Army and Star Wars: Galaxies.

Let's face it. Within the next year or so, anyone that has a system with a CD-ROM only (or who can't afford to get a DVD) probably doesn't have a system to play the newest titles that would ship.

Let's see service packs and full demo's shipping.
i dont have the money to buy a dvd drive. i have a pretty good pc, so you feel you have to punish people who dont have the money to buy a dvd drive.


I'm not saying abolish the CD...but let's face it, the media is in the twilight of it's usefullness. Give the option for subscribers, or for retail outlets to sell whatever sells the most. Give it six months...so some marketing surveys and see.

I never really thought that I would take the DVD as any more than a convenience...but getting this DVD has really opened my eyes up.

DVD-ROM's are dirt cheap. If you can afford a CD-ROM, DVD-Rom's are about the same price, maybe 5% more. If you have no money to buy either, what are you going to do when they do abolish the CD-ROM? It's a matter of time, I'd just rather see it sooner than later.

If they can produce both disks that would be great, but you know...the profit margin and all that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:35 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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joshnorem wrote:
We ran a DVD for the gaming special just because there's so many huge demos out right now for the holidays. For most of the year though, there's not enough game demos out to fill an entire DVD, and it's kind of pointless to put several hundred utilities on a DVD as nobody would ever look at all of them.


I see a "can't" or "won't do it" attitude there.

There are a lot of game demo's in the hundreds of megs. Look at the PC Gamer release meter. There should be a demo for each of those. Plus you have regular, popular mods and stuff that could be reoccuring fair...there are lists of games you guys are playing for the month, include their demo's or mod files on the disk.

You could also ship product evaluations of operating systems and software on it. For example you have articles on VB.NET...there 60-day trials for Visual Studio and their individual languages.

You could include the Java Run-Time's and SDK, .NET Framework and/or SDK. You could include major development platforms as well, including service packs. You could even include Linux distro's.

If time is taken to think it through and not just dismiss it, and do it right, it doesn't have to be an overnight change but there is too large of disparity between CD-ROM and DVD media. CD-ROM is limiting your coverage and the service you offer to your readers. It's easy to say that there are no sufficient DVD-ROM titles and/or readers with DVD drives, however most computers shipping that aren't cheap clunkers have DVD drives, if not burners. This is not going to change and taking the next year or so to migrate would be feasible.

For issues that are $12 Canadian, and a magazine that has limited content against it's sister publications, I think the marketing and editorial egg-heads at Futurenetworks could do something meaningful that would still support their bottom line.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:51 am 
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I think the majority of the reason for titles not being released on DVD is incompatability between different drives. If the UT2k4 fiasco didn't prove that nothing ever will. Thousands of complaints about that DVD special edition and they did literally NOTHING about it, they just pulled the discs off the shelves and those of us with DVD copies were left screwed, blued and tattooed. Espically thanks to the unbelievably moronic return policies of retail outfits on media. If it's open you can't return it and if it isn't you can only return it for the same thing. What a joke. If it's not open how do you know if it's defective and if it's still not opened, why would you want to exchange it for the same thing? What, you got a psychic impression that just this one copy is defective? Give me a break. So I avoid any DVD releases by route because of incompatability problems and definatly avoid any that use the same pathetic copy protection that Epic used for UT2k4.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:54 am 
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The Insane Modder wrote:
I think the majority of the reason for titles not being released on DVD is incompatability between different drives. If the UT2k4 fiasco didn't prove that nothing ever will. Thousands of complaints about that DVD special edition and they did literally NOTHING about it, they just pulled the discs off the shelves and those of us with DVD copies were left screwed, blued and tattooed. Espically thanks to the unbelievably moronic return policies of retail outfits on media. If it's open you can't return it and if it isn't you can only return it for the same thing. What a joke. If it's not open how do you know if it's defective and if it's still not opened, why would you want to exchange it for the same thing? What, you got a psychic impression that just this one copy is defective? Give me a break. So I avoid any DVD releases by route because of incompatability problems and definatly avoid any that use the same pathetic copy protection that Epic used for UT2k4.


Poor planning and project management should become the scape goat for failed projects, not technology that is improperly implemented.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:21 pm 
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Wolfmann wrote:
joshnorem wrote:
We ran a DVD for the gaming special just because there's so many huge demos out right now for the holidays. For most of the year though, there's not enough game demos out to fill an entire DVD, and it's kind of pointless to put several hundred utilities on a DVD as nobody would ever look at all of them.


I see a "can't" or "won't do it" attitude there.



It's primarily a "can't" thing actually, as people who have a subscription are promised 12 cds, and we can't just change the terms of the contract willy nilly. Sure everyone with DVDs would be happy but those without would be royally pissed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:57 pm 
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Optional DVD subscriptions could be a good thing though for those of us on dial-up who can't download things. Throw some Linux distros, and anything else useful on it.... I know I'd look through it all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:49 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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joshnorem wrote:
Wolfmann wrote:
joshnorem wrote:
We ran a DVD for the gaming special just because there's so many huge demos out right now for the holidays. For most of the year though, there's not enough game demos out to fill an entire DVD, and it's kind of pointless to put several hundred utilities on a DVD as nobody would ever look at all of them.


I see a "can't" or "won't do it" attitude there.



It's primarily a "can't" thing actually, as people who have a subscription are promised 12 cds, and we can't just change the terms of the contract willy nilly. Sure everyone with DVDs would be happy but those without would be royally pissed.


Does this have to happen over night? No, that would be impractical.

You've forced readers and vendor's to upgrade with the attitude of..."This is progress" before. Why not now? Do a trial for six months. If it works, it works.

Do you know the exact or approximate number of your readership that has DVD drives against those that don't?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:22 pm 
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Whether they do or they don't, he's right, if only 1 subscriber doesn't have a DVD drive then they would be in breach of contract and could get in trouble. They'd have to wait for all subscriptions to run out and THEN start shipping DVD's. But since not everyone subscribed in the same month, they'd have to rotate the change over the course of a full year. They'd lose some subscribers in the process because of the change and probably not gain enough new ones to make it worth the change. So from a practical standpoint, doing it would make no sense. It might be nice for those of us who have DVD drives but, well to be blunt, I get the CD and so far haven't seen anything on one I have a use for, the DVD's would likely just be more stuff I don't need. :) Ah well. That's just me though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:48 am 
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The Insane Modder wrote:
Whether they do or they don't, he's right, if only 1 subscriber doesn't have a DVD drive then they would be in breach of contract and could get in trouble.


Breach of contract? If that is the case, then this magazine has been in breach for a long while.

Quote:
They'd have to wait for all subscriptions to run out and THEN start shipping DVD's. But since not everyone subscribed in the same month, they'd have to rotate the change over the course of a full year.


This what someone would say that didn't want to take the time and effort to look at the viability and place a specific performance timeline to it.


Quote:
They'd lose some subscribers in the process because of the change and probably not gain enough new ones to make it worth the change. So from a practical standpoint, doing it would make no sense.


Subscribers come and go regularly. Few even consider the CD-ROM, fewer less - I'm sure - get the CD-ROM issue of the subscription. But I can't say that with any authority. The fact remains readers are fairly fickle...the readership has a life cycle.

[/quote]
It might be nice for those of us who have DVD drives but, well to be blunt, I get the CD and so far haven't seen anything on one I have a use for, the DVD's would likely just be more stuff I don't need. :) Ah well. That's just me though.[/quote]

That's a good point. However, they are limiting content. What if they could ship the full trial version of VB.NET in their DVD when they had a VB.NET how-to...this is limting not just disk content, but also magazine content.

If they have a "contract" with their readers over the cd-rom issue, they have a contract with all readers to provide the absolute best content they can, without limitations.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:40 am 
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The Insane Modder wrote:
It might be nice for those of us who have DVD drives but, well to be blunt, I get the CD and so far haven't seen anything on one I have a use for, the DVD's would likely just be more stuff I don't need. :) Ah well. That's just me though.


I have to agree with that one. Ever since I got broadband last year, I don't even really look at the CD. Maybe if there's an app or two on there I've never heard of. But nowadays I can download the demos and stuff so fast I don't need the CD copy. So a DVD would just be the same thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:14 am 
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Well the issue of why they don't include certain content (full versions of things for instance) was already addressed by one of the editors. As was the issue of their agreement of what to supply to their readers. So it's a moot point, they've already said why they can't do it. Debating it's worth is pointless. Eventually they might do it but it isn't likely to happen right now. Espically with there being no one, solid, universal format for DVDs. Plus issues of compatability and what have you that don't even relate to the format. Besides, like I said, I can't think of what they could put on a DvD to fill it every month that'd be worthwhile, it'd be a lot of really useless junk for the most part and a lot of time that they'd have to take away from producing a quality print publication, which is what I subscribe for in the first place. Keep the magazine quality up, I'll pay more for the mag if it'll keep it going good but I won't pay more for the mag to add a DVD to its distro types to cover the cost for their losses of subscribers who don't want or need it. They'd have to cover the cost somehow and I doubt very many people would subscribe to the DVD version so who do you suppose would eat that cost? Those of us who don't want the DVD. No thanks, pass.


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