Quantcast

Maximum PC

It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:25 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Search for Enthusiast PC Mag Continues...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:18 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:49 am
Posts: 1
I've been looking for a good enthusiast PC magazine for a long time and I was going to subscribe to Maximum PC but there are a couple things about its content that have given me pause.

#1. The theme of the Dream Machine article (Sept '04) was that the DM04 was to be "future-proof" yet despite this, you inserted an ATI X800 video card, which has no PS3.0 support. In the following issue, you guys stated that "we chose the X800 based on its svelte formfactor only - the cards performed about the same." That's appropriate logic if you were building a svelte PC.

#2. On the website, you have a "Win the ultimate Gaming rig!" contest, yet the CPU in that rig is a Pentium 4. Now I can understand that many hardware choices come down to opinion. Heck, even my item #1 above might make use of such a defense. However, the choice of a Pentium 4 CPU for an ultimate gaming rig defies all known statistics that clearly show the AMD FX-53 CPU outperforms every Pentium 4 running the majority of gaming titles. That's not an opinion. And please don't toss stats on encoding video at me. You can do that when I offer the same complaint about a "Win an ultimate video encoding rig" article.

So these two items don't do a lot to inspire confidence, I'm afraid. However, I'm sure you'll do just fine without my business. Thanks!


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:55 am 
Northwood
Northwood
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:44 am
Posts: 2496
Location: Wizzing into the abyss
you're bitching about a WINNING a FREE rig??

are you daft man??


:shock:


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:27 pm 
Smithfield
Smithfield
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:01 am
Posts: 8091
1 - he didn't win it

2 - he's complaining that it is not in fact the "ultimate gaming rig" - I dont think he's trying to step on any toes but is displeased with the choice of proc.

3 - I have a spindle of xfiles to watch. Bye all.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:40 am 
Northwood
Northwood
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:44 am
Posts: 2496
Location: Wizzing into the abyss
urmumsacow wrote:
1 - he didn't win it


I know..just thought it was funny that anyone would take the time to complain about a free rig


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:34 am 
Smithfield
Smithfield
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:17 pm
Posts: 5315
Location: northwest BC
It's hilarious. The more so since everybody has a different opinion on what is best. :D


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:31 am 
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:40 am
Posts: 3219
Location: Da Basestar
hpankin,

First, welcome to the forums. I hope you find them both enjoyable and informative.

Before any editor responds, let me just add that before any games take full advantage of PS3.0 support, both the 6800U and the X800 XT PE will be woefully obsolete. The system is futureproof to a point, that point being that the future is PCI Express. The videocard in any Dream Machine should not be expected to be used for more than a year-and-a-half at best.

In terms of visual quality, there's no difference between PS3.0 and 2.0. Where the GF6800U takes honors is its shadow-stencil technology, as is evidenced by it's marked advantage in DoomIII. Of course, ATI has some technology, notably 3Dc, which if used by game developers would give ATI's card a noticeable visual improvement (at equal performance levels) over NVIDIA's best offerings.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:28 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:33 pm
Posts: 80
Number Six wrote:
Before any editor responds, let me just add that before any games take full advantage of PS3.0 support, both the 6800U and the X800 XT PE will be woefully obsolete. The system is futureproof to a point, that point being that the future is PCI Express. The videocard in any Dream Machine should not be expected to be used for more than a year-and-a-half at best.


Just my opinion, of course, but if that's the case, and I believe that it is, "futureproof" probably wasn't the word they should have used in that case. Especially since these things seem to change every day.

I think his point was that since a lot of people go by what mags like MaxPC choose to be gospel, they're going to get a surprise when they buy the parts for their own personal Dream Machines and find out in a few months that they're already outdated. In this case I think some better wording would have helped.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:51 am 
Team Member
Team Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:28 pm
Posts: 487
Location: Inside A Computer
Gotta agree there, there's really no such thing as a futureproof machine, that's just wishful thinking. But on the 6800u issue, a lot of reports are flying around now that say the X800 is blowing the doors off it. I tend to disagree (most of what I've seen has the x800 only in the lead in some areas and in some benchmarks and not so in others). What has MPC done in so far as a head to head comparison of NV's and ATI's top cards? I'd like to see a solid report that gets to the bottom of this for a change.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:25 am 
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:40 am
Posts: 3219
Location: Da Basestar
KerrAvon wrote:
Just my opinion, of course, but if that's the case, and I believe that it is, "futureproof" probably wasn't the word they should have used in that case.


It's futureproof to the extent the future of videocards is PCI-e and not AGP, and that's as futureproof as one should expect in terms of videocards. :-)


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:30 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:33 pm
Posts: 80
Still misleading, though. The average person doesn't know the difference between AGP and PCI-Express, so when they pick up a computer mag at the supermarket, they're gonna go with the one that says "Futureproof". Cause they want to get a computer they don't have to upgrade for five years. I see it every day. And right now, with all the changes, it's misleading.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:06 am 
Maximum PC Editor
Maximum PC Editor
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 1:13 pm
Posts: 2308
One question for you Kerr...

Do you know how many PS3.0 games are out right now?

One.

There's a patch for Painkiller that adds Pixel Shader 3.0 support about 2 months after everyone stopped playing it.

No developers are using PS3.0 because the extra time (and money) it takes to rewrite (and retest) PS3.0 shaders isn't worth it since the installed base of cards that use PS3.0 (GeForce 6800 boards) is so small right now.

The only place we're going to see PS3.0 shaders is from companies that have marketing relationships with nVidia, and they get either money or nVidia developers in to write the code for them.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:48 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:33 pm
Posts: 80
I understand that.

But I know the average PC customer, and I know there's somebody out there that's gonna see that and raise a ruckus. Those of us in here know better, of course, but we don't represent the great unwashed masses out there.

I'm not trying to argue anything. I'm just saying I can see how some people might not get the futureproof part. I work at a computer store and get all my parts at great prices, so it doesn't really matter to me... That's all.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:02 pm 
Maximum PC Editor
Maximum PC Editor
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 1:13 pm
Posts: 2308
I would argue. The average consumers just want what's fastest. In the case of the X800 XT PE and the 6800 Ultra, it's a toss up. One wins one benchmark, one wins the next. They're within 5% of each other on damn near everything I could test at the time and with the drivers back then.

I'll revisit the whole thing again shortly, and see how the cards turned out now that the drivers have matured some.

///Will


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:29 am 
Team Member
Team Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:28 pm
Posts: 487
Location: Inside A Computer
I'll pay good money to see that Will. :)

So far, this debate (X800 vs. 6800u) has been pretty hot on the modding sites and there's been no clear answer, though I'd say the majority of the community seems to fall in favor of the x800 there are some who believe the 6800u represents the true future (especially in PCI-E). Myself, I fall in that category but have no way to back it up because only time will tell for sure.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:14 am 
Little Foot
Little Foot

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 107
Location: The Sunny Side of the Mountain
Quote:
hpankin,

First, welcome to the forums. I hope you find them both enjoyable and informative.


Doesn't appear he's going to come back. Not surprising, I suppose. The self styled uber-uber-geeks have plenty of superiority and condescension to go around, and there are a heck of a lot of techy forums out there.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:39 am 
Maximum PC Editor
Maximum PC Editor
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 1:13 pm
Posts: 2308
The Insane Modder wrote:
I'll pay good money to see that Will. :)

So far, this debate (X800 vs. 6800u) has been pretty hot on the modding sites and there's been no clear answer, though I'd say the majority of the community seems to fall in favor of the x800 there are some who believe the 6800u represents the true future (especially in PCI-E). Myself, I fall in that category but have no way to back it up because only time will tell for sure.


I'd expect to see it after we can do timedemos with Half-Life 2.

///Will


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:21 pm 
Team Creamsicles
Team Creamsicles
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:06 pm
Posts: 1397
Location: Montreal, Canada
half life 2 is coming out on november 16 can we see something about that in the following issues of mpc?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:11 pm 
Team Member
Team Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:28 pm
Posts: 487
Location: Inside A Computer
ACK! We have to wait for HL2? There are enough ways to benchmark the cards without HL2 though. Besides, every time we're told to expect HL2 it doesn't happen. I'm NOT holding my breath for it. Well, I couldn't even if it does come out next month but you know, I'm not gonna expect it to happen. It'll be nice if it does but, that's about it.
:)


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:14 pm 
Team Member Top 100
Team Member Top 100

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:07 pm
Posts: 787
Location: look behind you...
KerrAvon wrote:
Still misleading, though. The average person doesn't know the difference between AGP and PCI-Express, so when they pick up a computer mag at the supermarket, they're gonna go with the one that says "Futureproof". Cause they want to get a computer they don't have to upgrade for five years. I see it every day. And right now, with all the changes, it's misleading.


Disagree....perhaps the "average" person doesn't know the difference between AGP and PCI-E, but we're not talking about the average person.
We are talking about MPC readers who would know the difference and would know that "futureproof" means about 18 months, or am I in the wrong forum..... :roll:

Fold Until A Cure


Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group