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 Post subject: Windows Longhorn or Bust!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:56 pm 
8086
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Hi guys!

Just read some things that perhaps you should know about. As with anything in the publishing industry....things change on an almost daily basis. So I'm sure it's no surprise that you guys went to press right around the time when Microsoft made the announcement about some significant changes to Longhorn. Unfortunately...none of these changes were mentioned in your article about Longhorn. Most notably, it looks as though Microsoft has decided to hold off on releasing Longhorn with the new WinFS. Instead, WinFS will likely be an interim release when the new Windows Server that supports WinFS is released. What's even more surprising is that there are rumors that Microsoft may do the same with Avalon. I don't know about you but...if Microsoft does this then it will likely mean that Longhorn may not be as worthwhile of an upgrade as it's touted to be. Kill the two core features that everyone wants and you're left with just Windows XP SP2 Part Deux! Ugg!

Jeff


Last edited by bravado on Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:05 pm 
Smithfield
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Welcome to the forums!

I beleive this has been addressed in the forums and (not sure here) in the mag as well.

As a side note, you dont need to sign your posts with your email ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:10 pm 
Willamette
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i wouldnt mind if that DRM "Feature" disappeared off the face of the earth. Windows future storage was probably the only thing about longhorn that interested me. That new 3dish GUI(Avalon) looked promising though. Without out that Windows Longhorn is just another more colorful windows 2000. Probably the sole purpose of Longhorn is to implement DRM on everyone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:57 pm 
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urmumsacow wrote:
As a side note, you dont need to sign your posts with your email ;)


And to echo this, I'll take it a step further and say it's not a good idea to display your email in your posts. Actually, I guess that statement would depend on one's appetite for spam.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:16 pm 
Smithfield
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dx11101 wrote:
i wouldnt mind if that DRM "Feature" disappeared off the face of the earth. Windows future storage was probably the only thing about longhorn that interested me. That new 3dish GUI(Avalon) looked promising though. Without out that Windows Longhorn is just another more colorful windows 2000. Probably the sole purpose of Longhorn is to implement DRM on everyone.


This "DRM feature" will be and opt in thing. According to MPC's article and others ive seen on the net. This is of course subject to change, but I think, and hope, they keep things this way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:42 pm 
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its not 100 percent opt out. Certain content that requires DRM wont work, but that might be a rumor. To me DRM doesnt make since unless it is enforced which i believe it will be in some cases, even if you opt out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:50 pm 
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DRM is why I believe Linux will get a huge boost in popularity over the next few years.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:51 pm 
Willamette
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dx11101 wrote:
does else see the possibility in the future for a trend, atleast with computer enthusiasts...for a demand on non-DRM hardware/software?(in a market saturated with DRM hardware) or possibly even a trend toward retro hardware to retain freedom with their hardware(because DRM will invade the hardware realm)

1. People find ways, like they did for the xbox and other things. To crack thru security measures(be it a modchip or what have you) and get hardware to do things it wasnt designed to do. Namely for the xbox, get it to run linux, or for example, a DRM enabled DVD Burner eventually cracked or modded to work against DRM.

2. A majority of people see the ludicrous implications with DRM and decide its finally time to dump windows and turn to various linux distributions as a safe haven from this new form of control. Leading to a boom in demand for common programs to be ported/devoloped for to linux that people can only use in windows, then having DRM turn around and hurt MS more than it was supposed to help

3. Both


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:38 pm 
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Kybo_Ren wrote:
DRM is why I believe Linux will get a huge boost in popularity over the next few years.


me too


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:44 pm 
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urmumsacow wrote:
This "DRM feature" will be and opt in thing. According to MPC's article and others ive seen on the net. This is of course subject to change, but I think, and hope, they keep things this way.


Yeah, but what if you have to have Palladium enabled to install the drivers for your new broadcast flag capable HDTV tuner?

What if you need to have Palladium enabled to rip copy protected audio CDs?

Heck, what iif you need to have Palladium enabled to play sound?

Ok, the last one probably won't happen, but I would be astounded if you could use HDTV tuners on Longhorn without enabling Palladium and mildly surprised if the copy protected CD thing that the RIAA is trying to make happen doesn't require hardware level DRM.

We're strongly opposed to any technology that limits a consumers right to use something that they purchased at Maximum PC. DRM falls squarely in that category.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:14 pm 
Smithfield
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dx11101 wrote:
its not 100 percent opt out. Certain content that requires DRM wont work, but that might be a rumor. To me DRM doesnt make since unless it is enforced which i believe it will be in some cases, even if you opt out.


Of course, but its not like the files would play anyways. I myself would prefer to have nothing of the sort ever touch my computer, but by making it optional m$ gives the people the power to be heard. Better than "this is the way its gonna be and you're gonna take it"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:30 pm 
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WillSmith wrote:
Yeah, but what if you have to have Palladium enabled to install the drivers for your new broadcast flag capable HDTV tuner?


I dunno, I'm not entirely sure that flag will see much use Pages 8, 14 and 27 were especially amusing.

WillSmith wrote:
What if you need to have Palladium enabled to rip copy protected audio CDs?


Again, unlikely. I sincerely doubt M$ would go so far as to disable audio playback like that. do you mean cd's with some sort of special flag? Yea that would really suck if m$ built some sort of DRM into their CD drivers. But that wasn't the impression I got from what ive read about the opt in pollicy.

WillSmith wrote:
Heck, what iif you need to have Palladium enabled to play sound?


Ok, the last one probably won't happen, but I would be astounded if you could use HDTV tuners on Longhorn without enabling Palladium and mildly surprised if the copy protected CD thing that the RIAA is trying to make happen doesn't require hardware level DRM.

We're strongly opposed to any technology that limits a consumers right to use something that they purchased at Maximum PC. DRM falls squarely in that category.


Now I understand you were tring to be broad and not specific, and I am of course with you all the way on the matter.

It makes me wonder the extent of the DRM, but if it truely is "opt in" then all it should do is preven playback of DRM protected files, which would be unplayable anyways. Not to mention crackable.

If anything this technology should give people the ability to show companies how pissed they are about DRM. By refusing to use it people can send a message to the corporate leaders about their feelings for the technology.

EDIT: uggh, I just re-read what I posted and I don't know where I was going with it. DRM has no place anywhere, anyone involved in its creation or propogation deserves to be beaten senseless, tied to a chair, covered with a wet blanket and forced to listen to hansons "mm bob" untill they go mad.

Having the tech already present in the OS will only make it easier for companies to lead people onwards into the bleak future that is DRM. >_<

I left my original post because I thought it did well to show the other side of the matter, and how its wrong no matter how you try to view it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:42 pm 
Willamette
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urmumsacow wrote:

EDIT: uggh, I just re-read what I posted and I don't know where I was going with it. DRM has no place anywhere, anyone involved in its creation or propogation deserves to be beaten senseless, tied to a chair, covered with a wet blanket and forced to listen to hansons "mm bob" untill they go mad.

Having the tech already present in the OS will only make it easier for companies to lead people onwards into the bleak future that is DRM. >_<

I left my original post because I thought it did well to show the other side of the matter, and how its wrong no matter how you try to view it.


Agreed - however my guess is... if a file is configured on a DRM enabled machine with untrusted devices(burner, ipods, etc) it wont matter if you try to use it on a opt-out install, you just wont be able to.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:09 pm 
8086
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Hmm...interesting....seems some of you feel that DRM is a feature that would dissuade you from upgrading to Longhorn. I agree...DRM is indeed a touchy topic for alot of people...and one that would cause some people to re-evaluate what OS they want to use. Let's put it this way....if M$ releases Longhorn without WinFS and possibly without Avalon, and then on top of that integrates in DRM....well....let's just say that Longhorn won't be the upgrade that it should be. And if DRM turns out to be a dud, you can pretty much bet on the Linux companies and Apple to fill the gaps.

Which brings up a good point. What if Apple was to license out their technology and software to other companies (HP/Compaq, Novell, etc.)? What if there were no boundaries to using Apple's OS? What would it take you to make the switch? Brings up a good point! Considering that OSX is a Unix derivative, Linux developers could very well slip right in and port a good many existing programs to work with OSX. Imagine if companies like Novell ported their many popular Linux applications to OSX. Imagine if Apple allowed for OSX to run on an I386 platform. Imagine Apple actually paying attention to the enterprise server/client market. What if all this really happened? What would the end result be? My guess.....SQUASH! Goodbye M$!! That's what Longhorn means to me. If Microsoft screws the pooch then you'll likely see alot of companies switching to Linux or Apple. And it will only be a matter of time before you'll start seeing a trend towards a more consumer market after that. After all...it's been proven that most people prefer using the same OS at home as they use at work. :D


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