The Insane Modder wrote:
So with all you've said I still don't see how any BLAME can be placed on programmers here. I can see how they could be considered to be doing a better job if they made sure all possible security holes were fixed up. But I can also see that meaning that we'll be waiting until the cows come home for any software to be released.
Modder, Chumly and GPwolfe - this is not the LL
Keep the burners low
For the record Modder, most of us here know that "hacker" means "programmer" - we have just fallen into the fad that everyone else has in using the term to describe mal-coders (its easer to type than "black-hat hacker")
Here is how I "blame" the programmers - wait - let me digress -
We should really divide "blame" and "responsibility" up.
The programmer is responsible.
If you get attacked or not, is not relevent. If the code is sloppy - its sloppy. Who is responsible for the code? Because you guys ignored me before, I will break it down.
The end user has nothing to do with the code - so its not them.
The mal-coder never even attacked the system (yet) - so its not them.
Hmmm......who is left? - Oh yeah - the programmer!!
It doesn't matter why the code is sloppy. Maybe it was a bad boss? But the boss didn't write the code. I suppose you could blame the company. Thats fair - they take all the credit for the product, so they should take all the responsibility for it. Yet, the actual person is the programmer.
That doesn't mean the programmer should take the blame for all attacks - perfectly good code can still be vulnerable in ways that could not be foreseen. Halfhill was just saying that security needs to remain a software issue no matter how many hardware walls are put up. Like I said, building a wall around the house is no excuse to leave the front door open.
As far as the chicken and egg - Modder, since you weren't a commport member I must warn you that even jokes
with a religious slide to them don't play well in this forum - for some reason it causes all kinds of trouble.
But since you opened the door in this thread
Creationism - Chicken came first
Evolution - Chicken came first.
The evolution reason is that we don't speciate animals except in the adult form. Before you can find and name the chicken egg, you need to find and name the chicken. There are a few exceptions (like the giant squid which was named even though it hasn't been seen), the chicken is not one.
So it doesn't matter if you go to church or not - the chicken came first. Now if you want to debate it in a more biologic sense, the answer would be "amino-acid" - which always comes first.
Hmmm....what else can I ramble on about.....
Oh yeah - in order to prevent sloppy code, certain security issues must be made public. Programming is not the military. You can't put a hardware wall in place and not tell folks about it. And you can't "privledge" information either. That would mean small companies and individuals couldn't program - and thats wrong. Further, mal-coders have ways of getting info without "permission", so you simply can't do it. Believe me, large Companies would love to see this - it thins the competition - but its wrong.
Hmmm.........well - thats it for me.