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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:49 am 
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Wester547 wrote:
Not sure if this has been said throughout this thread, but the Sept 2004 issue does have Lean Machine 2004 as well right?


It appears they spent all thier money on paint for the DM. I see no lean machine. Maybe next month?

Manta


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:54 am 
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WillSmith wrote:
Even without the fancy cooling rig, I think that this year's Dream Machine turned out very well.

It was back to tradition with DMY2K4. I applaud every decision except lack of case window (I know, I know... the paint job) and the lack of GF6800U.

The reason why I criticize your decision for the ATI is simply this: You set the theme with future proof, and NVIDIA is more futureproof than the ATI X800 XT. I also see you had enough room for everything even if you dumped a two-slot hoggin' GF 6800U in there.

That being said, I also see DMY2K4 being an excersice in "fuck-'em" system design. Consider this:

NVIDIA didn't send you SLI? Fuck 'em, we'll go with two ATI cards
AMD didn't have PCIe and DDR2 ready? Fuck 'em, we'll go with Intel
SONY discontinued GFM-F520? Fuck 'em, we'll choose NEC.
No one wants to make liquid cooling for Socket 775? Fuck 'em, we'll do air cooling.

You get the idea :)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm 
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Maybe if I saw it close up I would change my opinion, and this is just nit picking, but I think the paint job was a little too sedate. For the kind of cash you spent on it, I think it could have been much better. The system itself was awesome, and I am still drooling.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:46 pm 
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I agree with most of the component choices in DM'04.

I would have loved to see two 6800U's in an SLI setup :lol: , but I understand that you cant always get everything in time for publishing. If time would have permitted I would have water cooled the rig too.

Anyways, I think this years DM was pretty sweet, all things considered. I'm already looking forward to next years DM. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:15 pm 
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Ultimately, the reason we went with the single ATI card instead of the single nVidia card was that it was faster in what we considered key benchmarks, the games that use programmable shaders.

Pixel Shader 3.0 isn't worth going with a slower card.

///Will


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:00 am 
Boy in Black
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Sidzilla wrote:
Maybe if I saw it close up I would change my opinion, and this is just nit picking, but I think the paint job was a little too sedate. For the kind of cash you spent on it, I think it could have been much better.
Unless you paint or photograph, anyone would have a hard time seeing or trying to grasp the beauty that the case should have in person.

For starters, That grey is a very nice color, but VERY hard to photograph just about any grey or silver. Lighting plays so much in how it comes out, and even then you still have trouble seeing the depth with a 2D picture.

Knowing what greys look like shot on, I can attest that that thing is more than likely really striking if you walk around and look at it. Take this picture for example:
Image
I tried to photograph how that little piece turned out and I just couldn't get a picture to do any justice. Flash floods the pearl in it, and natural light didn't bring out the depth. But when you're two eyes lay on it, it's really something to see. This is the only picture I kept, and is quite crappy due to resizing. But if it were a lighter grey, it would far surpass my ability to get any decent shots at all. Silver just looks flat when photographed.

Ya just have to give them the benefit of the doubt, and especially the paintjob's you may run across in the magazine. $400 is right on for any good paintjob, and I would even say that's cheap for the level of quality smooth-creations turns out. Nothing they turn out would disappoint anyone. And I pitty the photographer that pulled his hair out trying to get shots of the finished case!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:46 pm 
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Just received the Dream Machine issue. VERY nice work guys. That is most definantly a computer I would LOVE to build, had I the $$$$ to build it. My only change would have been to use the absolutely beautiful Orange Chevelle SS case from a few months back instead of the Silverstone. I'm not real big on the paint job on the DM04 case, and I'm still fond of windows to your pc's innards, especially with the nice, tight wiring job you guys did. But the case is the only thing that I didn't like about it, other than that it's a hell of a machine. The front of my shirt is still wet with drool........
BTW, what do you do with all these computers you build from scratch? Can I have one? :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:09 pm 
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MantaBase wrote:
Wester547 wrote:
Not sure if this has been said throughout this thread, but the Sept 2004 issue does have Lean Machine 2004 as well right?


It appears they spent all thier money on paint for the DM. I see no lean machine. Maybe next month?

Manta


they already mentioned 3 lean machines in a previous issue.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:06 pm 
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Not everyone is a fan of the case, but for a PC with this many components an enclosure like the Wave Master is too small. The Silverstone case is so big and roomy, and yet it barely fit all the components!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:59 am 
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Ahhh, that explains it. I guess if you put in a touch screen LCD, that would kinda make space a problem. My own personal preference about the case aside, its an awesome machine. I would LOVE to build one similar to it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:35 pm 
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What about Lean Machine 2004? :( Spent over an extra 1000 bucks on the Dream Machine 2004....I wonder what Lean Machine 2004's system specs would have been if it could have been afforded hhmmmm.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:08 pm 
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Wester547 wrote:
What about Lean Machine 2004? :( Spent over an extra 1000 bucks on the Dream Machine 2004....I wonder what Lean Machine 2004's system specs would have been if it could have been afforded hhmmmm.


We built three Lean Machines in June or May (I forget which month).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:47 am 
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You mean the three "PC Makeovers"?(low-end, mid-range, high-end ones)

Yeah that was featured in the July 2004 issue.

I suppose you could consider those "Lean Machines 2004" lol.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:58 am 
Willamette
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Wester547 wrote:
You mean the three "PC Makeovers"?(low-end, mid-range, high-end ones)

Yeah that was featured in the July 2004 issue.

I suppose you could consider those "Lean Machines 2004" lol.


No, in the May issue there's a feature labeled "Lean Machines." It's the $500, $1000 and $1500 machines.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:21 pm 
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Oooohhhhhhh that. :)

I suppose then the $1000 Lean Machine, the "MIDRANGE MONSTER" would have been this year's lean machine probably, if there was no "3 lean machines" feature or whatever in the May 2004 issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:35 am 
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Someone tried to argue the lack of Floppy in another, uh...illegal thread. I'd like to defend the lack of that legacy POS. The arguement was that you can't install S/ATA HDD's or RAID arrays without it. Any other argue over the exclusion of a floppy would be baffling. Should be happy it's not needed :shock: .

"Native" S/ATA drives on "Native" controllers need no driver to be loaded on Windows install, which the DM board has both. RAID is also a function of the BIOS only now(?). Windows asked for the driver (F6) on start up, and doesn't offer any other drive but A:/. You used to have to load RAID drivers or S/ATA drivers from a floppy, but those days are gone. I didn't need one on this 925x, and was glad to be able to pull that thing out and stuff it in a box :p

Maybe the Floppy can die again...for good. (sorry Alt.OS fans. You guys can keep using floppies to hold your OS's!)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:54 am 
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Chumly wrote:
Someone tried to argue the lack of Floppy in another, uh...illegal thread. I'd like to defend the lack of that legacy POS. The arguement was that you can't install S/ATA HDD's or RAID arrays without it. Any other argue over the exclusion of a floppy would be baffling. Should be happy it's not needed :shock: .

"Native" S/ATA drives on "Native" controllers need no driver to be loaded on Windows install, which the DM board has both. RAID is also a function of the BIOS only now(?). Windows asked for the driver (F6) on start up, and doesn't offer any other drive but A:/. You used to have to load RAID drivers or S/ATA drivers from a floppy, but those days are gone. I didn't need one on this 925x, and was glad to be able to pull that thing out and stuff it in a box :p

Maybe the Floppy can die again...for good. (sorry Alt.OS fans. You guys can keep using floppies to hold your OS's!)


I needed a floppy to flash my video card... some motherboards still require that a flash take place within DOS.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:02 am 
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No floppy drive on the DM eh?

I never really use it anymore, but can't seem to get it out of my life.

A floppy drive is like your old adult movies. You can live without them, but you'll always have them in your sock drawer.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:56 am 
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How about a "Dream Budget Machine' article. That would be...the machine that has alot of potential and headroom. EG: possibly a 6800 nVIDA card that can possibly have the extra pipes (16) unlocked with rivatuner, and a not so popular motherboard that just happens to run well, and a nice air cooled case with 2x 120MM fans. One Raptor only in SATA and another drive just for storage (PATA). Only one monitor, but not a CRT that cost as much as your DM 04'. You get the drift. And keep the Rainbow Bread Sponsored wiring team off of it and get someone to actually make a budget (Dream Budget) machine look respectable. Take time to really hide wires and possibly use flagging tape (you can get it at home depo and it's UV sensitive) to wrap the PSU wires and looks realy nice. Use Zip ties where needed.

The "Dream Buget Machine" would be a machine that has potential to out-do a typical midrange machine if configured properly. Though to "out-do" or outbench one, or come close it would need "sleeper parts".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:19 pm 
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I have to say that there were some very poor choices for componets this year! The cpu cooler was a POS and not worthy of DM2004. Here is a review of that cooler showing that it is worse than the stock Intel cooler:

http://www.bytesector.com/data/bs-article.asp?ID=322

Why choose Intel this year? Socket 939 Athlon is currently much faster. Who cares about DDR2 and PCI-Express when neither one of those technologies bring any real world performance benefits? I think dream machine should be all about maximum performance not new technology that is slower.

The biggest mistake of course was the ATI video card. Maximum PC has been talking about Doom 3 all year and then they choose a card that is slower in Doom 3 (and other benchmarks) for the dream macine... I think most will agree that it was a bad choice. And what about future proofing it, Nvida cards will soon offer SLI so that is more future proof. I mean if you are going to pick an Intel system just because it has pci-xpress then at least pick a video card that will support SLI in the near future. Here is a link to a popular review site showing the Doom3 benchmarks: (notice that even the 6800GT is faster!)

http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQy

It would also be nice to see a different powersupply like maybe the new OCZ 520watt powerstream. But still PC Power & Cooling never really goes out of style.

Personally I think the case kicks ass.

All in all, I would have to say that this is the most dissapointing Dream Machine ever. I hope next year Maximum PC will be back on track. Still the best PC magazine bar none!


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