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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:01 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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MoboMoFo wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
I agree, sometimes it's hard to hear voices through all the bass when Im watching movies.


What speaker set do you have?

["But in games, bass kicks ass"]

Not always. When I lived in the dorms, people were just playing Diablo 2... but it sounded like furnature being thrown around.

There's a cut-off point for almost everything =P


LOL true.
I have crappy Inspire 4.1 4400's...they cost $75, what can I say :P


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:03 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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MoboMoFo wrote:
Sheep.


BAAAaa


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:11 pm 
8086
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Hi everyone, this is my first post and seeing as this topic covers an area of interest for me, this seems like a good place to jump in.

Something to the effect of "computer speakers aren't meant for audiophiles" was said and I have to take some exception to that. If we aren't meant to be receiving great sound from our PC's, then why do we spend so much money on high end sound cards? Granted, running giant tower speakers isn't practical and the focus of sound for computer usage is different than it would be in a home audio system used for music and/or movies. Primarily, these speakers are marketed to gamers. In most gaming situations, heavy bass and mid range is used, which is why the Logitech speakers fare so well.

I have some Logitech Z-560's (4.1), which have virtually no treble output. Yes it can produce high frequencies, but not in an ideal manner (like with a tweeter). It's similar to Bose's technique into fooling people into thinking they are hearing high quality sound. Nope, just a whole lot of mid range coming out of those little cubes.

I don't know about the new line of Logitech's, but the Klipsch ProMedias are superior to the Logitech Z-560's on a technical level. In a real world level, I like my Z-560's just fine. I also like the money I saved by purcahsing them instead of the Klipsch.

Somebody also mentioned being very loyal to Klipsch after they made good on a product past warranty. Klipsch makes excellent speakers. I have them exclusively in my home theater and I've been very satisfied with them. Moreover, on a technical level, they are largely unsurpassed. Only when the price tag becomes hugely inflated to you see any major improvement in the competition...and even then you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference when comparing apples to apples. When you're spending that kind of money, you're also wise to stick with a company that stands behind its products and customers. If that's being a sheep, well then....baaaaaah!

Wait...none of you are from West Virginia are you? If so, forget that sheep remark. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Klipsch What Happened?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:59 pm 
Little Foot
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malebolgia wrote:
A while back when someone said high quality speakers you thought Klipsch. Klipsch use to dominate the list for best speakers. Now Logitech is the one dominating the chart for best speaker. I’m just curious on why Klipsch isn’t number one anymore. Does Klipsch have some secret project, or are they fresh out of ideas?


PLEASE!...having been a owner of the Z680s AND the 5.1 Ultra speakers, I can honestly tell you that Klipsch has gone nowhere....they are there for those hard-core enthusiasts who want more than ear piercing highs and distorted over expanded lows...the 5.1 Ultra speakers, IMO put Logitech back where they belong - runner-up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:15 pm 
BANNED
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Logitechs aren't good for music really. But games and movies(DTS) they rock.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:16 am 
Thoroughbred
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Steve wrote:
Something to the effect of "computer speakers aren't meant for audiophiles" was said and I have to take some exception to that. If we aren't meant to be receiving great sound from our PC's, then why do we spend so much money on high end sound cards?


To get the best sound possible... BUT, audiophiles don't rely on a PC to playback music to fully appreciate the recording. That's why stereos and hometheaters are a seperate concept... and remain that way.

Quote:
In most gaming situations, heavy bass and mid range is used, which is why the Logitech speakers fare so well


Ummm... no. Emphasis is on the highs and the lows... when they really should have nailed the midrange. If they did that, they'd sound AWESOME for music.

Quote:
Klipsch makes excellent speakers. I have them exclusively in my home theater and I've been very satisfied with them


For home theater, I can see this. For music, I cannot.

Quote:
Moreover, on a technical level, they are largely unsurpassed


On a technical level, you are incorrect.
On a personal level, you could be right, but I don't have your ears.

For me, Klipsch does not produce a clean-sounding speaker. They produce performance speakers, which means that they'll cut corners on quality to push out more volume.

Quote:
Only hen the price tag becomes hugely inflated to you see any major improvement in the competition


It's apparent that you either haven't auditioned much or haven't read much into this. There are several speaker companies that offer better products at similar or lower prices than Klipsch.

-Polk
-Paradigm
-Axiom
-Onix
-Swan

Quote:
and even then you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference when comparing apples to apples


If we all had your ears, maybe that would be the case...

Quote:
When you're spending that kind of money, you're also wise to stick with a company that stands behind its products and customers.


They dropped Tweeter as a merchant and picked up Best Buy... selling only their low-end stuff.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:17 am 
Thoroughbred
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SomeGuy wrote:
BAAAaa


**pbpbpbpbpbth**

:D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:21 am 
Thoroughbred
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Quote:
I have crappy Inspire 4.1 4400's...they cost $75, what can I say


I have headphones right now...

I had the Klipsch Promedias, but I missed my mid-range =P

I may go with something from Swan... really good reviews on Newegg.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:50 pm 
8086
8086

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mobomofo wrote:
To get the best sound possible... BUT, audiophiles don't rely on a PC to playback music to fully appreciate the recording. That's why stereos and hometheaters are a seperate concept... and remain that way.


I think more of what constitutes an audiophiles dislike of music on a computer is the lossy file types used rather than hardware. I think the main limiting factor is the unpracticality (good lord, is that a real word?) of audiophile grade speakers (towers etc.)

mobomofo wrote:
Ummm... no. Emphasis is on the highs and the lows... when they really should have nailed the midrange. If they did that, they'd sound AWESOME for music.


Ummm...yes, that is why you do not see a proper tweeter on the logitech or really any other PC speaker. This is why music tends to sound more muted and muffled on a PC speaker rather than piercing and tinny. The whole midrange issue is the same thing that Bose does. It sounds pleasant enough, but is not a full range of sound. I'll have to find a more technical explanation, as I know this one will only further our disagreement.


Steve wrote:
Klipsch makes excellent speakers. I have them exclusively in my home theater and I've been very satisfied with them


mobomofo wrote:

For home theater, I can see this. For music, I cannot.



While I admit I use my Klipsch speakers mostly for home theater use, I do find music (especially 5.1) to be extremely full sounding and satisfactory.

Steve wrote:
Moreover, on a technical level, they are largely unsurpassed


mobomofo wrote:

On a technical level, you are incorrect.
On a personal level, you could be right, but I don't have your ears.

For me, Klipsch does not produce a clean-sounding speaker. They produce performance speakers, which means that they'll cut corners on quality to push out more volume.


I should have been more specific. Sure, there are speakers with better specifications. I meant "for the money". I'd much rather have some $20,000 specialty speakers out of the pages of Sound & Vision, but that's not realistic.

I'd be interested in examples about your theory of cutting corners on quality. I've found my Klipsch speakers to be quite durable and clean sounding.

Steve wrote:
Only when the price tag becomes hugely inflated to you see any major improvement in the competition


mobomofo wrote:
It's apparent that you either haven't auditioned much or haven't read much into this. There are several speaker companies that offer better products at similar or lower prices than Klipsch.

-Polk
-Paradigm
-Axiom
-Onix
-Swan



Yes, Polk Speakers are great. I have not auditioned the other brands of speakers with the exception of Paradigm and if memory serves, a comparable speaker (towers w/ 15" woofers) was much more expensive than my Klipsch and were nearly identical in specs. I'd have to dig up the specs for this to have any weight...however, I hear what you're saying and I never meant to make a concrete statement that Klipsch was the only speaker worth a damn. I was merely expressing my satisfaction for the price/performance ratio.

Steve wrote:
and even then you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference when comparing apples to apples


mobomofo wrote:
If we all had your ears, maybe that would be the case...

True, it's all a matter of opinion...but, when comparing equal specs to the brands I did audition (Polk being one), I liked the Klipsch best.

Steve wrote:
When you're spending that kind of money, you're also wise to stick with a company that stands behind its products and customers.


mobomofo wrote:
They dropped Tweeter as a merchant and picked up Best Buy... selling only their low-end stuff.


I'm not familiar with Tweeter, but sellling stuff through Best Buy is just smart from a financial point of view. Even their low end stuff is pretty damned good. My point was and is, it's nice when a company cares about the people that support it. I'll give you an example, I bought an Olympus Digital Camera a year or two ago. It was pretty spendy for me at $600. Well, wouldn't you know it, I loan it to my girlfriend for a day and she breaks the sliding lens cover. I call up Olympus and they want $150 and 4 to 6 weeks to fix it. Needless to say, I won't buy another Olympus. On the reverse end of the spectrum, I had a Plextor CD burner go bad on me that was waaaaaay past warranty. I didn't even show any documentation and they sent me a better one (52x) free of charge with return shipping pre-paid. It's good to support companies that do things right. Simple as that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:24 pm 
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OK how about this: Buy whatever damn speakers sound good to you!

this is getting old...

:wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:53 pm 
Thoroughbred
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Quote:
unpracticality (good lord, is that a real word?)


Impracticality, yes.

Quote:
I do find music (especially 5.1) to be extremely full sounding and satisfactory.


I owned a pair of their reference bookshelves... lacked bass extention, details in the mid-range and highs, and did not sound anywhere as clean as the speakers I replaced them with. Granted, I did spend more money on the replacements, but the difference was almost like night and day.

Quote:
I meant "for the money". I'd much rather have some $20,000 specialty speakers out of the pages of Sound & Vision, but that's not realistic.


I meant for the money, as well. I refuse to pay more than $1000 for a single speaker.

I've never heard a $20,000 set and I wouldn't even know where to find something like that. Even if I did, they wouldn't be worth it.

Quote:
I'd be interested in examples about your theory of cutting corners on quality. I've found my Klipsch speakers to be quite durable and clean sounding.


This is your typical performance speaker-- quantity over quality.

Klipsch may sound clean... until you hear something better... and this doesn't require venturing outside your price range, either.

Quote:
and were nearly identical in specs. I'd have to dig up the specs for this to have any weight


If there's anything I learned over the past year or two it's that specs don't mean shit. I'm dead serious. You can't go by specs.

Some manufacturers use marketing to hide their shitty specs, some flat-out lie, and some will even exaggerate.

Quote:
I'm not familiar with Tweeter


http://www.tweeter.com/corp/index.jsp

Quote:
sellling stuff through Best Buy is just smart from a financial point of view


Not when you want high-end stuff. Best Buy caters to the typical consumer. I am not the typical consumer-- I'm an electronics enthusiast.

Quote:
Even their low end stuff is pretty damned good


Yeah, if you like big, overpriced speakers with little bass extention and nearly zero warmth.


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