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 Post subject: How hot is too hot? Need advice on processor temperatures..
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:07 am 
Little Foot
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I'm running a P4 550 (3.4 GHz) on an Intel 915PBL motherboard with a Zalman cooler using Arctic Silver Ceramique... The case temps are fine but the processor is running between 50-53 with WinXP loaded, around 60 with some load, and around 69-71 if I run Seti@Home maxing out the CPU at 100%... Is that about right? or is it running too hot for that setup?

The other motherboard temp sensors show 35c the videocard (BFG 6800GT OC PCI-E) is running at around 63c...

Thanks...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:11 am 
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i dunno what kinda zailman u got but yeah that is kinda hot if its a 7000cu, and at 70c, your not getting all 3.6 ghz from ur proc, since the processr throttles down, 3.6 ghz and up is known to be a problem


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:17 am 
Willamette
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I have a 3.2E and have a Zalman CNPS7000B CU. While its a hot little number at full load (90+%), I have never been over 55. You got a fan blowing directly onto the CPU? That may help. Also whats the room temp?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:55 am 
Smithfield*
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:shock: why the hell are you using ceramique!? :!:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:59 am 
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its the seti, switch to folding at home. its way cooler :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:53 am 
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That sounds pretty warm, doesn't sound like your CPU fan is throttling up when the temps start getting high. There should either be settings in the BIOS to control fan speed, or a temp probe that came with the HSF, check into those.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:21 am 
8086
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That will easily take a year off the processors life in the long run. You need to get better cooling or the ambient tempature in the room is too hot. I remember my comp ran hot in the summer, so i bought an AC unit for my room and it ran cool, because of the lower ambient tempature.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:06 pm 
Little Foot
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It's no hotter than 70F in my room... I have an IR temp reader from work and I checked around the intake and it reads 69F even when the vent in my room was blowing. The vent is in the ceiling and is not by the computer (the computer is by the window so it's a little cooler near it).

The two temp probes I have on my case read 36C directly under the heatsink by the processor and around 31C by the video card. The Intel hardware monitor shows two system zone temps of 35C and right now as I type this it's 54C in the processor zone.

I am running the Zalman CNPS7000B-ALCU LED fan:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 118&depa=0

Using the CM-CS1 fan clip to mount it:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 219&depa=0

The proc fan is turned up to it's maximum speed on the control pod that comes with it and shows a reading of 2327RPM in the Intel monitor. It's all housed in a P160 case with a Antec 120mm fan in the front and a 120mm fan in the back with an Antec 480W power supply.

I'm thinking the problem is either the Ceramique or that I need to reinstall the heatsink with new thermal compound because something went wrong the first time. I used Ceramique because the reviews I read showed it cooling better than Arctic Silver 5... The only time I've seen it reach 71 are when I run Seti@Home. I can actually turn on SETI@Home and watch the processor temp climb.

Ok, I just ran Seti and I watched the temp go from 54C to 71C in 2 minutes and now I as I type this it's almost to 72. The two system zone temps went up to 40C and my temp probes on the case read 41 by the processor and 31 by the video card. The processor fan did not change it's speed, it's still around 2327RPM. Turning SETI off sends the temps back to normal in about 1 minute. The power supply fan did ramp up when the temp went up, but the two 120mm aren't running through the motherboard so I'm not sure if they changed speed. I can post screenshots of the Intel hardware monitor with and without Seti running if that would be at all helpful... I'll have to play some games and see if it gets that hot also..

Thanks for the replies...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:31 pm 
8086
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well you could try to reapply the thermal paste, perhaps there is a gap. There is a new thermal product called phase change material, maybe you could check that out.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:07 pm 
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If you are using the Fanmate fan controller on the Zalman, take it off. You need to run that one at full speed. Also, you probably should have gone with the pure copper fan. The copper/aluminum works great on a cooler running processor ( AMD 64), but that P4 needs all the help it can get.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-118-113&depa=0

Oh yeah, Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste too!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:24 pm 
Smithfield*
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manaburn777 wrote:
well you could try to reapply the thermal paste, perhaps there is a gap. There is a new thermal product called phase change material, maybe you could check that out.


theres no replacing it now, that CPU will be with the heatsink forever. thats the beauty of cermique


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:58 pm 
Little Foot
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Most of the threads I've read on it say to get the CPU temp up using something like Seti@Home :), and then it should be easier to remove...

The reviews I read said it should actually keep the processor cooler than Arctic Silver, which is why I used it in the first place...

Regardless, is the general consensus that if possible I should remove the ceramique and the heatsink and replace it with Arctic Silver 5 and an entirely copper Zalman cooler?

The Zalman I have is not running through a fan bus, it is installed per the instructions. Basically it's plugged onto the motherboard, which runs through Zalman's own little controller box (basically a small black box with a knob on it to adjust the fan strength). That box is set to the maximum RPM...

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage ... 118-05.JPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:05 pm 
Thunderbird
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Why do you have the temp probe between the heatsink and proc?
Thats creating a gap that is not needed.
The Intel monitor should be fine for monitoring temps.
Try removing the probe and see if temps lower.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:15 pm 
Little Foot
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The probe is not actually between the heatsink and the proc... The heatsink overhangs the proc by a few inches, it is sitting under that overhang next to where the proc makes contact with the heatsink. But it's not actually touching anything...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:19 am 
8086
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Is it telling you the CPU temp. or on dye temp. Cuz if it is the on dye temp you are talking about then the tempatures you are getting are percectly normal for an on dye temp.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:26 am 
SON OF A GUN
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My server reported somewhere around 50C in the bios after a reboot after some considerable (not brutal) load. Which I felt was a little too hot. But that is just me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:28 am 
Little Foot
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I am essentially getting two readings... The one I'm concerned about is the one the onboard sensor is reporting. Intel has a tool you can download that will display the information from the temp sensors on your motherboard and show that information, along with wattage readings, fan rpms, etc...

The onboard motherboard temp sensor is the one that jumps up to 71 or 72c when I run SETI for more than two minutes. I'm trying to take some readings while I play games to see where that gets me.. So far after playing WOW for a little while last night I think it was around 60c.

The motherboard has three sensors on it, one for the proc and two for different "system zones" but I'm not sure exactly where they are located on the motherboard. I also have two temperature probes that are attached to my Antec P160 case and display on the front panel. One probe is currently sitting near the proc and the other is near the video card.


http://www.Intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/index.htm

http://www.Intel.com/design/motherbd/bl ... PBL_lg.jpg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:47 am 
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I get nervous anytime my proc goes over 55 centigrade. I use an AMD chip though, which isn't nearly as toasty as the prescott chip.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:50 pm 
Little Foot
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I think Im going to grab the full copper zalman cooler and some AS5 and see where that gets me.. probably won't have it until the end of the week, but I'll post back with the results...

I'm thinking the heatsink isn't making a solid contact with the ceramique and the proc, regardless I have to start somewhere... I just hope getting that heatsink off of there isn't as hard as it sounds...

Would applying too much Ceramique cause something like this? I'm not sure how much I put on there, but at the time it looked like the recommended dosage according to Arctic Silver's online install notes...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:31 am 
8086
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schu wrote:
Would applying too much Ceramique cause something like this? I'm not sure how much I put on there, but at the time it looked like the recommended dosage according to Arctic Silver's online install notes...
Yes, it's possible that could do it, but most times the excess squishes out. The layer of thermal grease should be very thin and very uniform. Your temps are not that much higher than the 65c normally seen in an average case on a P4 550 with the stock cooler or Zalman 7000AlCu. I've been down this path myself with a 550 altough mine was at 67c under load. It's now at 57c in the same case.

I would skip Zalman altogether, copper or otherwise, the 7000Cu is not really up to this job either IMO. A better call would be the Thermalright XP-90. Thermalright has them kitted with a decent fan now. You can also use a Panaflo 92mm BX (3 pin Rpm reporting). If you really want the cool man settup you could stick a JCM pulse width modulated fan on there. The XP90 will cost a few bucks more, but it should pull your load temps down under 60c.

Check those case fans to make certain they are doing their job as well. You may want to get a fan controller so you can be certain the case fans are spun up all the way when you are under load.

Also, I would consider getting a phase change thermal interface. Best is if you can get hold of a piece of Honeywell PCM45. The advantage is that it applies a perfectly uniform layer that is the ideal thickness of the exact right material that Intel designed around. The are just over $1 each and one postage stamp is the cost of shipping up to 100 of them. http://www.ajigo-store.com/chomt7therin.html

All you do is lay them on the sink, or the chips heat spreader, put uniform pressure on it (I use the sink for that), wait an hour for it to adhere to the metal, then peel off the backing material. Don't rub it or it will stick to the backing material and you start over....

I'm ready for the inevitable chorus of "AS5 rocks," and I've used Arctic Silver since AS1 came out. But, my own comparisons show that Honeywell PCM45 will deliver the same temperature or lower than AS5 when both are correctly applied, but it's much easier to goober up AS5 just as you may have the Ceramique. With the PCM45 you know you have it perfect every time out. We call that verifiable qauality. The phase change material will also last much longer, not that most of us will still own our computers long enough to care.

oc


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