Buying an Xbox One Console Requires Waiving Right to Class Action Suits

43

Comments

+ Add a Comment
avatar

MiGreen

This isn't news, nor is it a MS only deal. The only reason it's here is to bash.

avatar

Usnflyer

This is not the governments responsibility to fix. Use a little thing called capitalism and if you don't like a product or company policy, then don't buy it. The corporation everyone is calling evil isn't forcing you to give them your money, you are doing it of your own free will, therefore you have no right to complain. Take your cash elsewhere and they will get the picture eventually. But why take personal responsibilty for your personal actions of buying their product, blame the company!

avatar

grinbills

Actually, if a company sells you a faulty product or misleads with its advertising, you have every right to complain. One of the functions of our legal system is to intervene when a party with virtually unlimited assets confronts or is confronted by someone with limited assets (which is one reason the government will provide you with an attorney if you can't afford one in a criminal case as the government has virtually unlimited assets when bringing a case against you). The market should be free to regulate itself, but the goal of a class-action suit should be to alert potential future consumers and to discipline the company taking advantage. That isn't regulation, it's accountability. I've received several letters about my ability to participate in various class-action suits, but even a resulting win has never offered any type of reward greater than knowing which company to avoid doing business with in the future. We are in desperate need of tort reform, but the ability to sue is a necessity, even under truly free-market capitalism.

avatar

PCLinuxguy

most people can't be bothered to actually think. Hence why what you're talking about never happens.

avatar

RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

Just like Steam and Valve.

The business world is full of scumbags.

How about waiving the right to participate in class action lawsuits against auto makers next time you buy a car, or against banks when you get a credit card, or energy companies should you decide you want electricity?

Less regulation...exactly what this country needs.

avatar

Rift2

Good Idea really if you want to ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY with the thing you have to weed out lawsuits. I got a letter about a ps2 lawsuit it was so stupid I threw in the garbage I don't think it applied to me and I needed proof. People think Sony and Microsoft are cash cows they used to be but currently they are not.

avatar

BloodDonor

Luckily this doesn't affect New Zealand purchasers... NZ consumer law CANNOT be contracted out of... You could sign a 1000 page document saying you give up all your rights, and its worthless as an agreement (thus, all the EULA's etc which state X and Y, mean crap all here)

:)

avatar

PCWolf

The US Government pretty much sold out the American people to it's corporate Masters long ago. Corporations can put ANYTHING into a EULA & it's pretty much Legal Law! I'm just waiting for a Corporation in the US to actually put that "You must surrender your First Born Child to the Company when said Company so demands" in a actual EULA. Just slip our Government some Lobby Money & they will let you do anything you want!

avatar

HKUSPC40

Wow a country that protects it's citizens from corporations! I wonder what that's like...

avatar

Usnflyer

I am going to protect myself because I am an adult. I am not buying one.

avatar

LatiosXT

In all honesty, what does a class action lawsuit bring me? I was eligible to receive compensation in two class action lawsuits but I denied taking it. Why? The compensation was pitiful and I'd lose my right to hold another class action lawsuit anyway (assuming I read the legalese right)

Take for instance the one against the iPhone 4 antennae issue. Whoever was eligible for compensation got $30 or something. And those affected already had something to prevent the issue anyway. Yay.

avatar

fung0

It's not just about the money for individual purchaser. A class action lawsuit is just about the only way that consumers have of bringing pressure on purveyors of sub-standard or even dangerous products. Why do you think companies like Microsoft are so keen to prohibit them?

Say a bunch of Xbones die after a week. Individual lawsuits won't happen - who's going to sue a huge corporation for $500? But if the problem affects 2,000 people, you're talking a million dollars, which makes a lawsuit worthwhile. Even if you personally don't get your $500 back, Microsoft at least runs a risk of taking a meaningful financial hit.

It's not much, but it can make a difference.

avatar

dstevens

The difference is Microsoft has mass produced shit hardware with massive flaws that kill the system before on a mass scale, whereas ps1,2, & 3 were excellent systems with an extremely low fail rate (accept for a few models disc drives in ps2) micro$hit sux and needs to go back to making a worthwhile windows.

avatar

jbitzer

You're Delusional. Sony faced Class action suits from the PS1 having a bad spring in it that you had to trun the console on its side or upside down, and the PS2 had a class action for the Disk Read Errors they refused to acknowledge.

Oh, and the one for losing all their customer data by securing it with a cardboard sign saying "please don't hack us"

avatar

legionera

the last one is my favorite.

avatar

wumpus

I don't think the PS1 and PS2 errata were much of a problem. The total pwnership of PSN could well have been as disastrous as the RROD. It is even more impressive considering Microsoft is notorious for complete security incompetence, and Sony managed to one-up them as their only competitor in that field.

Makes you wonder if those overpriced toys Valve is hawking might be better.

avatar

jbitzer

Actually, an article was published some years ago that showed microsoft being the fastest to act on security issues. It was aimed at the "macs don't get viruses" crowd, but the gist of it was patch tuesday is a lot more frequent than the vulnerabilities Apple lets go unfixed for 8-18 months.

As for the PS1/Ps2 thing, they were enough of a problem that they both prompted class action suits, which is the subject of the article.

I don't recall an RROD suit, though I may not remember it because of MS's eventual warranty extension.

avatar

devin3627

WHOA! you are very wrong about the ps2 disc drive that i was affected by. yes when you played movies it wore the disc out... but this was a bigger problem than you think, it just wasnt public as more people go to computers today than more. but disc drives are vulnerable.

avatar

SCSA420

Who cares I wouldn't take the CrapBoxOne if they gave it to me for free with all the best games for free. Sony and Playstation 4 are going to bury Microsh-t this time around just like they did in the past with PS1 and PS2. Say what you will BUT Sony won't lose the video game war this time around they are going to kick Microsh-ts sorry asses. IMHO Playstation 3 games are superior to Crapbox360 games (Gran Turismo 5 XL edition, GTA V, Madden 25, COD MW3, Final Fantasy 13,etc. I could go on and on). Now just bring it cause I know someone here on Max PC is going to run me and Sony down but I dont care. Microsh-t CrapBox has always sucked and it always will

avatar

legionera

...and how will sony do that? I am very curious to learn your perspective.

avatar

txfeinbergs

Well, you get one point for at least being able to construct a sentence unlike most Sony fanboys. Unfortunately, you have your head so far up Sony's ass that pointing out the errors of your opinions would be a waste of my time.

avatar

grinbills

Fanboys are almost always allergic to data as facts. It sends them into fits of ubercompulsive rage which result in nonsensical, purely emotional and profanity-laced tirades.

avatar

brannank

A bad ruling that sets a precedence can and has been overturned before. Let us not accept improper rulings, we have a legal right to pursue a Judicial Review in a higher court and we also have the other two thirds of our three branch government to check and balance each other; the Legislative and Executive branch can overturn a bad ruling:)

avatar

jbitzer

YEAH!!!! MS HATE!!!

RRAAAARRRGHH RAAAGEEE!

Oh wait:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sony-changes-legal-policy-to-thwart-future-legal-action/?_r=0

2011, seriously people.

avatar

JCGPZ9

Exactly. People should make a huge stink for any company doing this. Then again I see class actions useless for the consumer and just a money maker for the lawyers on both sides.

avatar

fung0

It's true that lawyers are guaranteed an income by the legal system. But under that system, lawsuits are just about the only way consumers have of fighting back. And they are far more effective - and less frivolous - than corporations would like you to believe.

See the movie "Hot Coffee," before making up your mind on this topic. Do not give up your right to fight back.

avatar

jbitzer

Sony started this with a PSN TOC change forever ago. MS adopted it with an XBL TOC change a week after.

It was right after the sony hacking class action.

This is old non-news.

avatar

brannank

One cannot waive their Constitutional Right to have their grievance ruled upon by a State or Federal judge by signing a EULA. Sorry Microsoft, if you want to escape the Justice system, you'll need to take you're business to your favorite failed nation state-Viva La Playstation!

avatar

carage

That is what you want to believe, but the Supreme Court actually ruled in favor of AT&T in 2011. That is how this trend of writing class action waiver clauses into EULAs started.

What are the chances of getting the Supreme Court to reverse itself in 3 three years where the composition of the court is largely the same? I'd say close to nil.

I agree it's bad law, but try convincing the Supreme Court.
It's like shouting in the face of the justices "you got this wrong"

avatar

jbitzer

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sony-changes-legal-policy-to-thwart-future-legal-action/?_r=0

avatar

stradric

It's pretty unfair to single Microsoft out here. This is a practice that nearly every business adopts now. You can thank the lovely, pro-business Roberts Court (a.k.a SCOTUS).
See American Express Co. v. Italian Colors Restaurant, No. 12–133 (June 20, 2013).

So why the hell wouldn't Microsoft take advantage of that? If you have a problem with it, stop electing Republicans and blue dog Democrats.

avatar

grinbills

Easy, killer. I am a Republican. The majority of the party in office is simply masquerading. In fact, they've gotten so good at it that I don't even recognize my party anymore. I'll give this to the Dems - they stick to their platform. The Republicans say one thing and then do something else.

avatar

Bucket_Monster

This entirely depends on the issue at hand on whether they can actually enforce this rule. There's limits to how far a EULA can protect you, especially when it starts to venture into legal gray areas, or outright violations of laws. If something MS was doing violated some consumer protection laws or FTC rules, their EULA won't amount to jack.

avatar

Drew7

MICROSOFT IS SO F@CKING DUMB!!! And I hate it, because I love Microsoft. I LOVED what they did with the XBOX 360... Truly awesome sauce! But man, did they F@CK this one up! First of all, who the Hell is gonna buy such an UNDERPOWERED POS?! I have an 1100T with an HD 7850, and my system already stomps on it! And it's NOT the highest-end rig, either! Second~ Why the Hell did they go and copy Sony, again?! I know they did... C'mon! Just like with the XBOX 360 and the PS3; They ripped off the Power PC element from the "Cell" chip, and just made it a triple core. And honestly; THAT was a great move! At least they got some power out of it without being too obvious. But THIS TIME, it's like they had a mole sneak into Sony, find-out what their new chip was gonna be (or paid AMD to tell them), and then stole the design. Only THIS TIME... To avoid "infringements"... They chopped its balls off! IT'S SO OBVIOUS!!! On that note... BOTH SYSTEMS SUCK!!! While the PS4 is stronger than the XBOX One, it still can't come close to my aged, mid-range gaming rig! 8 cores at 1.8 Ghz?! Pa-LEASE. An HD 7850.5 AT BEST??? C'mon! And they expect these to last for the next 5-10 YEARS?! PC gaming is gonna FLY past this C-R-A-P. Sony... Microsoft... Ya'll are the dumbest smart people I ever knew! I'd rather ya held off for another 3 years, and develop something that's actually WORTH BUYING.
P.S.: AMD~ Good for you... You're the smartest one of the bunch! At least you made some MONEY.

avatar

John Pombrio

So if you lose at Titanfall against your brother, you cannot hold MS responsible for knocking his teeth out with the new Kinect? Drats!

avatar

The Mac

As amusing as that analogy is, i dont think its a good example, as there isnt anything class actionable there.

avatar

PCLinuxguy

As with all EULA's no one will read them and then get [pissed off when they realize what they agreed to.

avatar

JCGPZ9

Luckily IIRC none of the EULAs held up in court thus far.

avatar

MrHasselblad

+1

avatar

Cleaver

"Doesn't this all but announce that Microsoft plans to do some objectionable things with their platform?"

In the weeks followng the Xbone's reveal, they actually did come out and announce all the consumer-unfriendly things the console would inflict upon its end-users, and they attempted to tout these things as "features."

This "no class action lawsuit" clause is definitely an extension of that same idea, methinks. I'm guessing the class action lawsuit that they are expecting is probably this:

When all the idiots buy one anyway, thinking that it now doesn't have DRM like initially announced, Microsoft will flip their DRM switch to ON and then there will be hordes of people who will be surprised by this action and file lawsuit.

avatar

Obsidian

HA HA HA lol ...

Doesn't this all but announce that Microsoft plans to do some objectionable things with their platform?

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand the result of most class action lawsuits, since the suits are the ones being paid, not the consumers. However, to outright claim immunity to collective legal action is another matter all together.

Is this sort of thing even allowable under consumer protection laws? No way can one single XBox-playing consumer afford to take on M$ on their own in a lawsuit. This is just another bully tactic from a misguided declining company.

I have to ask though, did Sony point out this bit of legal fine print? It would be a brilliant smear campaign if they were behind this negative press.

avatar

dgrmouse

Sony can't point fingers here, 'cause they do it as well. EA also requires such a waiver for every game they distribute through Origin. It's obnoxious, but it's just one facet of the ridiculous terms in most EULAs.

avatar

Obsidian

We should expand the understanding of how marketing works. Sony is not above paying for positive reviews. If someone from a marketing firm that Sony employs, leaked this information, it would only be traceable back to whatever sub-contractor pointed it out. This will undoubtedly put Microsoft on the defensive. When you're on the defensive you've already lost.

Sony could very well be guilty of this exact same legal jargon, but by making M$ defend the point FOR them they get to make the XBone look bad AND they get to claim that everyone is doing it anyway.

Your point applies to EA, not Sony directly. This really isn't the same thing. Although I agree that most EULAs are absurd. South Park really drove this home in a Human Centipede spoof involving Apple's EULA.