No BS Podcast #179: We Move Away From the Mic to Speak (Sorry)

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allc0re

Hello?

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keithfreitag

where's that podcast you said would be up Wednesday?

 

Keith

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xrdoug

Looking forward to your next monthly podcast.

Always entertaining and informative.

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mattd390

Any ETA on the next podcast?

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nedwards

Should be up Wednesday.

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mattd390

Thank you sir!

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Ras Thavas

"A note: We noticed in editing that our mics seemed to cut out intermittently. Sorry about the audio issues; we're trying to figure out what happened."

 

 

I know, must have been the beta podcast :-)

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fellowleo

I just finished Portal for the first time. (Yea, I know but I wans't interested til it was for free) and now I finally "get it" with Podcast #100. Haha.

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lindethier

Good job guys, as always. Lets make sure we speak into the mic a bit more, next time :)

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Engelsstaub

People will stop complaining when you (Chacos, Lily, etc.) start actling like real journalists. Maybe you can pass off agenda-based bull to the children who think products define themselves, but you won't pass it off to even PC-users who are adults and respect other human beings.

Everything here has become op-ed. Not just Gordon's rants (which are supposed to be.) Titles with "Mac Heads" vs. "Windows 'Users,'" ...Chacos "reporting" on customer satisfaction with PC manufacturers saying in the title that they come out equal, but then in the article contradicting himself and admitting that "one PC manufacturer stood out." Butt-hurt, he spews some crap about how stupid Apple's users are for being happy with them because of Mac Minis lacking an optical drive or something incredibly ridiculous like that.

Most will buy this and all of the other near-daily bullshit, but not everyone is going to praise you all for being immature and unprofessional. 

But then again, you do seem to lately pander to a base that says "fuck people" (as below) and people who like to ignore fact-checking as long as the BS is about something or someone they hate. You cater to a bunch of internet jerks who come here to congratulate each other for product choices and insult and disrespect others who don't think exactly as they do. They are encouraged by your lack of professionalism that is present in every other journalistic outlet save for Fox News.

Also your "definition" of post-PC remains marginal and extreme. Too bad no one who writes such supposedly earth-shattering revelations has the stones to defend their ideas here. They just notice complaints and let their fans argue their points for them.

It's one thing to have an anti-Apple bias. But if your facts are wrong, someone is going to call bull once in a while...just as you rightly call bull when it comes to some half-truth from Justin Long in a TV commercial. If you disrespect fellow human beings because they "aren't real gamers" for playing on a console, you'll likely lose the respect they had for you. People are not defined by the computers or other products they use.

 

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Keith E. Whisman

Engelsstaub your just pissed that hardly nobody visits Mac Life and responds to articles. I pittied the website so I joined it to make some objective comments and not all were bad, although I did make one bad comment to be funny, I did make a few comments just to get people to start posting responses to Mac Life articles. Last time I was at Mac Life I thought I was at Maximum Tech because I was the only person there. 

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I Jedi

Again, and this is what I tried to explain to you last time when you and I came down to this argument. This site is oriented towards PC users, not consoles or Macs. While at this point, I feel like I'm feeding the troll, I truly wish you could understand that it is 'okay' to have healthy competition between the platforms. I'm sure many console gamers, not all, think that the PC is for the nerdy, rich guys, as does my brother, who is a console gamer. Yet, they don't come around here spamming and pillaging trying to make their point to that end. I can't speak for anyone else here, but while I dislike consoles and Macs, I don't personally go onto a Mac forum or console-related forum and just let loose on my opinion out of respect for their choice to use a certain product. At the same time, though, I come here because I ENJOY the fact that there are people, for who share my distaste for Macs and consoles.

Again, there is no conspiracy here to try and uproot MaximumPC into a PC cult. You are, of course, free to state your opinions, as long as the moderators think it is okay, but I honestly think after our back and forth struggle, you're just trolling now. As other users have said, if you feel so strongly about your opinion against MaximumPC, why not just leave this site for good? There are other tech-related websites out there, that do not take sides.

To be honest, if you continue to post your opinions, that in my opinion, you're only discrediting yourself and your argument over the long haul. You'll be alienating readers here, who have read and trust MaximumPC as their news source for tech related material. Once more, as I have said before, if you truly feel strongly about the way you feel, don't take your argument onto a commentary board, where everyone is going to point and laugh at you. Actually take the time to sit down, write out a letter, and actually mail the sucker to the staff at MaximumPC. They'll either laugh it up, throw it out, or actually give you a response why they write their material a certain way, which you feel uncomfortable with.

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Engelsstaub

I know you can read: why do you seem to think this is about the consoles or the computers when I keep stating over and over that it's about disrespect to actual people and a complete lack of professional objectivity??

I wish you could understand that you don't have to be an apologist for them. Are you on their PR team? I'm entitled to comment in comments and I don't need to send them mail when they can just as easily read here. Go on and stop feeding the troll/fanboy/poster of rants that you can't discredit. I will mail or email nothing.

There's a huge difference between "competition" and the childish name-calling and disinformation/agenda-based reporting. Point and laugh away if you can't or refuse to comprehend the difference between a professional tech magazine and a bunch of bloggers getting paid to spout commentary in the guise of tech-reporting. You also can't/won't see the difference between saying (for example) "PCs are better than Macs because..." or "PCs are better than consoles because.." and "Console gamers aren't real gamers" and "Mac Heads are stupid for being satisfied with Apple's customer service." No one is silly enough to think that this site should even cover Macs or stop "bashing" them and I am not the only one who's made complaints recently.

Also look up the definition of troll. At least I make points. All you do is constantly reply with no substance to refute those points and an obvious zeal to "stick up" for a staff that really does troll. I've given you examples of these "professionals" being trolls as direct quotes from their articles. You ignore them and still feel the zeal. Maybe I should dismiss you as a fanboy? Apparently it's alright for your heroes here to be trolls in their "reporting" but one can not comment to the contrary without being a troll. You'd be doing us both a favor if you "stopped feeding the troll."

The problem again is, since you missed it so many times before, Gordon's rant never ends. Everyone appreciates the actual rant whether they agree with it or not. Doesn't matter. It's commentary, right? You said: "You'll be alienating readers here who have read and trust Maximum PC as their news source for tech related material." I've given you just a few of many examples in the past of reasons why they are alienating their own readers. Myself included. I was reading and buying the magazine when Smith and Chan were here too, you know. Remember that Linux button that used to be up there? Gone now on Maximum Windows. Right out the door with the last people who could write a story purporting to be journalism or reporting without injecting bullshit and hatred towards others that belongs in commentary. Get it yet? I actually don't care if you do or not anymore. Hopefully other readers "I'm alienating" will.

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I Jedi

"I know you can read: why do you seem to think this is about the consoles or the computers when I keep stating over and over that it's about disrespect to actual people and a complete lack of professional objectivity??"

Are you kidding? Get your ass in perspective. Mac users are equally to blame, as are PC users, for feeling their platform is superior to one another, and there are journalist, who bash PCs, I'm sure. If you're wanting to get into a fist fight over professional objectivity, you should know that there are VERY few sources that actually post the facts alone, rather than injecting their own opinions. Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, The Washington Post all add in their own views when writing, and sometimes cover other stories more than others. If your war against MaximumPC is based on a non-biased, fact-based search only, you won't EVER find it here, nor on DailyTech, Gizmodo, etc.

"I wish you could understand that you don't have to be an apologist for them. Are you on their PR team? I'm entitled to comment in comments and I don't need to send them mail when they can just as easily read here. Go on and stop feeding the troll/fanboy/poster of rants that you can't discredit. I will mail or email nothing."

An apologist for them? Please, if there WAS something to apologize for them, which clearly there isn't. You claim to want to call out MaximumPC on bs, that you have a RIGHT to comment on these boards, yet you blatantly say I am a PR puppet for this site. You have already discredited yourself more than I could ever do at this point. Finally, I TOLD YOU... I TOLD YOU that you had every right to post on here, so long as the moderators didn't care, but that if you continued to write negative comments against MaximumPC, that others around here, including myself, would begin to feel that your worth for discrediting MaximumPC would go down the toilet. Perhaps if you didn't come off as so righteous, and actually give a non-biased approach, you'd actually garner some support, if other's felt the same way.

"There's a huge difference between "competition" and the childish name-calling and disinformation/agenda-based reporting."

Absolutely, and let me make this point clear, I have NEVER seen an article in which MaximumPC called anyone an idiot, moron, dumbass, or any other colorful language because they used a certain product. If you FIND an article, for which an editor here has clearly, without any reason beyond a doubt, in which they have called someone a moron, dumbass, or anything else that would clearly idicate CHILDISH name calling, not just bashing, I will withdraw this statement and apologize for this remark.

"At least I make points. All you do is constantly reply with no substance to refute those points and an obvious zeal to "stick up" for a staff that really does troll. I've given you examples of these "professionals" being trolls as direct quotes from their articles. You ignore them and still feel the zeal."

I have NOT ignored what you have said, I have defended again and again with the same argument that MaximumPC is a PC based website, that caters to PC enthusiast, not Apple, Linux or console users. Your references about MaximumPC's biased approach, such as what you called them out on what they meant by "Post PC" is entirely absurd. You see a few words, and you automatically jump to the conclusion that this is an attempt by the staff to turn already PC enthusiast against other products and services. My god, do you see where you are wrong, yet?

If you don't like the direction this magazine is going, you are more than free to join their sister site and sprout your bs. http://www.maclife.com/

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Engelsstaub

Keep "feeding the troll," staff apologist.

You're full of fanboy-zeal-apologist shit, so stop. Get your last twenty paragraphs in here because I won't resopond to you anymore.

"If you're wanting to get into a fist fight over professional objectivity, you should know that there are VERY few sources that actually post the facts alone, rather than injecting their own opinions. Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, The Washington Post all add in their own views when writing."

...shut up. You know damned well that any of the aforementioned news outlets can and will be called out for injecting unobjective commentary into stories that are not op-ed.

"Perhapth if I didn't come off tho righthous and give a non-biathed approach." Please. That's incredibly rich. You want a commentator to come off as humble and unbiased but you'll take it from professional journos as long as you agree with what they say. GTFO. My credibility never even came out of the toilet for you so stop playing like you don't just want to argue because someone said something bad about your favorite mag.

There is no difference between calling someone a dumbass and calling them a "Mac Head." "Mac Head...fuckhead...shithead." Can you think of any word used to describe someone, with "head" as its suffix, that is not derogatory??? There's no real line between name-calling and "bashing" when words like head and ass are used to describe another human being. "Meathead. Dickhead." Do you require any other examples or just this same one over and over?

I am on Mac|Life. I'm just not "sprouting my bs" there because the journos run the same stories without belittling Windows-users (not Windows Heads) or injecting op-ed bullshit into a simple report.

...and Linux is PC, Skywalker. It may be one percent of consumer desktops, but that should be enough to garner about one in a thousand stories, right? Business servers is where Redmond has a far more difficult time prebloating its OS on everyone's hardware, yeah?

Bye now.

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I Jedi

"You're full of fanboy-zeal-apologist shit, so stop."

The last defense of a man with no other routes to take, but to call out and label.

Thanks for playing.

"I'm just not "sprouting my bs" there because the journos run the same stories without belittling Windows-users (not Windows Heads) or injecting op-ed bullshit into a simple report."

Here you go: http://www.maclife.com/article/features/will_windows_8_roar_lion

"Microsoft has earned their share of pain after inflicting gems like Windows ME, Microsoft Bob and Windows Vista on unsuspecting consumers, but from the look of things, Redmond’s days of flinging flaming electronic turds on the public may be coming to an end."

That took me two seconds to find. If you want, I can "dig a little deeper" for you.

"...shut up. You know damned well that any of the aforementioned news outlets can and will be called out for injecting unobjective commentary into stories that are not op-ed."

You're assuming, stop. I only pointed out that news outlets, especially the major ones, are biased in their own approaches. I never said anything about others calling out these networks on their bs. What I'm trying to help you comprehend here is that to expect MaximumPC to be completely neutral, you best start calling out other networks, too, and not just on here. Again, your war for a non-biased, fact based approach will never happen, get over it.

Btw.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/red_hat_race_1_billion_subscription_services_swell_second_quarter

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/linux_turns_20_years_old_now_has_some_game

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/hackers_breach_kernelorg_linux_source_code_repository

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/linus_torvalds_releases_linux_30_kernel

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/samsung_bada_os_sail_open_source_waters_2012

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/linux_turns_20_finally_upgrades_version

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/avadirect_dances_debian_authorized_integrator

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/linux_director_battling_microsoft_kicking_puppy

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/ubuntu_ditching_firefox

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/updated_linux_kernel_includes_deep_changes_boosts_performance

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/user_friendly_linux_system_targets_senior_citizens

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/ubuntu_1104_still_tripping_over_sandy_bridge

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/hp_customer_need_warranty_service_gets_runaround_installing_linux

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/asus_begins_shipping_three_eee_pc_models_ubuntu

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/ubuntu_1104_natty_narwhal_washes_ashore

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/small_linux_kernel_patch_brings_massive_speed_boost

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/red_hat_launches_enterprise_linux_6

I'm up to seventeen thousand stories to one... Shall I continue?

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Engelsstaub

While I will concede that that was a fragment of op-ed, did you not read that they were about to say something good about Windows 8? I've heard nothing but good things about Win7 from Mac Heads (shitheads, dickheads.) I have it on my primary PC.

They gave you three examples of ill-received MS products. You can also find stories there about Apple's commercial failures. Most Windows-users I know hate(d) Vista, ME, and Bob. Calling the products themselves crap. Does it look like I have an issue with MPC calling Apple products crap? Did you read that? Did it look to you as though they were calling anyone stupid or names that end in the motherloving suffix of HEAD?! I hate Vista, I just don't hate the people using it. Learn to read and address the real issues.

Seamus Bellamy writes pieces for this magazine as well. Some trivia for you. I'm just guessing they're right down the hall. Probably the very people Gordon talks about trolling over Macs being Zunes of the computer-world.

Yes, continue. Is that every Linux article they ran since Norm Chan left? I read one. They were easier to find when they had a button aggregating them.

You demanded evidence that I provide over and over of the name-calling that you require. Don't address that at all because that is not at all what this is about. 

Let your heroes speak for themselves. If If I'm so out of line it should be easy for them to put me in my place.  They shouldn't require your zeal or spokesmanship. BTW: the term "apologist" has nothing to do with apologizing as in the modern English sense of the word. Look it up.

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I Jedi

While I will concede that that was a fragment of op-ed, did you not read that they were about to say something good about Windows 8? I've heard nothing but good things about Win7 from Mac Heads (shitheads, dickheads.) I have it on my primary PC.

Irrelevant. Whatever "they" said on Mac Life that was positive towards Windows is irrelevant to what you and I were discussing. You stated that Mac Life doesn't give opinionated commentary in their articles, I proved that they did. I appreciate that you condeded the point, but don't move the finish line further down the road while also trying to put a pretty face on it by claiming how much Mac users think Win 7 is a good OS over at Mac Life. I could say right now that I think the iPhone iOS is a good mobile OS, and I would mean it, too.

"Did it look to you as though they were calling anyone stupid or names that end in the motherloving suffix of HEAD?! I hate Vista, I just don't hate the people using it. Learn to read and address the real issues."

That wasn't the point you were trying to make earlier. Again, you're moving the finish line down the road. You told me that Mac Life did NOT add op-ed commentary into their articles, whhich specifically demean one group, organization or product. It doesn't matter if they didn't call Windows users idiots, but what matters is that they said, "Redmond’s days of flinging flaming electronic turds on the public may be coming to an end."

That implies that Microsoft products are about as good as and useful as turds are. I don't hate people for using Macs, and I'm damned sure that no one here, including the journalist, hate anyone for using a Mac.

"Yes, continue. Is that every Linux article they ran since Norm Chan left? I read one. They were easier to find when they had a button aggregating them."

You asked for one in a thousand articles and I gave you a 17:1 ratio. What more do you want from me? You made a statement, and I countered that statement with an answer that was true. Bitching because there isn't a 10:1 ratio on here, or even a 2:1 ratio isn't my fault.

"Let your heroes speak for themselves. If If I'm so out of line it should be easy for them to put me in my place.  They shouldn't require your zeal or spokesmanship."

The only reason they haven't shut you up is because they don't care if it offends you. If you don't like it, you're free to open up your HOSTS file on your Windows machine, type 127.0.0 next to MaximumPC.com and never be bothered again by blatant hatred for Mac users by this obvious conspiracy to turn already PC enthusiast users here against Mac head... Oh, shit, I just said Mac heads.

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Engelsstaub

These must be your "real friends" and/or people you really know. Because you keep demonstrating your "reality" as knowing why they haven't shut me up and just speaking for others as though you know them. If they are not down the hall from you then you need to go outside. Seriously.

I'm not moving the lines anywhere. We're just flaming over trivia. Go back and look at my first reply to your pan-article crusade on behalf of your favorite mag. The one here, I mean.) The main points are still the same:

A. "...disrespect to actual people..." ie: Windows-faces and Linux-asses.

B. "...complete lack of professional objectivity..." ie: Highly speculative (disinformation) and insulting, lame, and juvenile excuses as to why PC manufacturers consistently suck in after-the-sale customer service. Like Chacos was in the market for a goddamned Mac Mini until they took the optical drive away from him.

Those were the "lines." The rest was just more back-and-forth nonsense in a flame-war that I am equally responsible for perpetuating. I said I was done and here I am, like an asshole, again. As you will also be, I'm certain...speaking the minds of others.

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Kilwrathi

I've read MaximumPC off and on for awhile now, I read PC Magazine and sometimes even Windows.  I choose these magazines and some of their corresponding websites because I use x86 computers and, oddly enough, they're dedicated to reviewing products, services and software for those platforms.  I also read Stuff, Maxim and the occasional Playboy because, again, I like to look at over endowed women in revealing clothing and, by the onion rings of Burger King, that's what they feature.

I guess what I'm confused about is this: You go onto a website for a magazine that's dedicated to x86 (and to some extent ARM as it becomes more open) platforms but you say you find Linux and Mac user 'disrespect'.  Isn't that like going to a Barry Manilow fan club meeting and bitching that they don't give NKOTB enough love?  Seems like you're a well read troll and since I'm being stupid enough to feed you, I'm going to give you a very simple argument to ponder.

When you ask someone to review a product (That's what these magazines started out as) you trust the people reviewing to voice their concerns or laud the graces of said product.  Now that's a subjective thing.  What you may think is the best thing since sliced bread, I might think is about as awesome as a turd in a punchbowl.  Basically you're applying a set of ethics to a medium that is meant to BE opinionated and you're talking about the levels of 'respect' they give to people's choice of product.  They're not here to do that.  They're here to talk about trends in x86 and ARM as it becomes available.  That's a more Windows-centric viewpoint, it's going to be that way for the forseeable future and dressing up your New Kids arguement in fancy fifty cent words don't change that.

This magazine is for PC guys.  Stuff, Maxim and Playboy is for men that like scanitly clad women.

It IS a fanboy thing and what you missed out on is that it's supposed be.

Now go consturct your walls of text at the Mac sites and get the 'respect' you seem to think everyone without self esteem problems craves.  Shoo troll.

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Engelsstaub

Look up the definition of troll; it's not someone who's disagreeable or whom you disagree with. (At this point I'm just a "flamer," like everyone else responding.) I know it's just an overused and convenient term for people to dismiss others without any thought. Fitting for a website who's editors can never even properly hyphenate post-PC let alone define it. ("What I'm confused about" is this: over ten percent are unemployed, but "editors" can get paid to not really edit and op-ed bloggers can get paid like real journalists.)

Was I asking for Mac reviews?? Learn to read. Go right back up to my last comment and review my "issues" in bold. A. and B. I tried to make it easy for people to understand.

"x86 is Windows not Linux(????????).... yap yap yap...." ...that had not a damned thing to do with anything. You need to read more computer magazines if you think only Windows is x86. "You must be one of those Mac Heads cuz only people stupid about computers make such product choices."

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steven4570

wow...calm down bro, if don't like them stop visting the website or listening to the podcast, that simple

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allc0re

"They are encouraged by your lack of professionalism that is present in every other journalistic outlet save for Fox News."

Your argument was good until you vomited this morsel into your post.

I have three letters for you: LOL.

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Engelsstaub

My argument was good until I negated it with one bad sentence? I'm actually sorry. I'd take that vomited morsel back if you could still see the entire good argument before it. Guess I blew it. ;)

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allc0re

Let me rephrase. You lost all credibility with that one sentance.

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I Jedi

What really disappoints me is that Batman: Arkham City is going to be delayed on the PC until probably early November. I had to find out that the PC version was being delayed by you guys. :( You can imagine me sitting there, listening to you guys, and hearing that portion, and my draw just dropping and eyes widening. Other than that, great podcast, guys. Keep up the good work.

P.S. Fuck anyone who complains about the site, or what you guys write about, etc. I think you guys do a fine job.

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Brad Chacos

I just had to switch to Office 2010 from Open Office due to some crappy compatibility issues, and I have to agree -- after spending 10 hours/day on it for two or three weeks now -- that yes, Gordon, it definitely sucks.

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HiGHRoLLeR038

nice discussion.  but i cant believe you didnt talk about the Windows 8 dev preview.

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don2041

Please get the spam on your site under control. This site is the worst I have visited in years. I go to comments to see what other people have to say,but have to wade through shit and waste my time. This is becoming a very unpleasant exprience.

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don2041

Go to Radio Shack and spend the whole $10.95 and Buy a better audio system

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don2041

Also I don,t use facebook but if it ain,t broke don,t fix it.

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dtischerd

awesome cast,and Amber i love the shows Sons of Anarchy.

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strykyr

At least it wasn't a month.  Let's check it out.

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bautrey

yay!!

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