Windows 8 Off to a Worse Start Than Vista

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knighttoday

I grabbed Windows 8 only because, working at a Help desk I had to be ready to answer questions, otherwise I would not have made the move. It is my opinion that Microsoft operating systems seem to follow a cycle of every other one is a dud. Windows XP was fine and then Vista was not worth the time. Windows 7 is a dream but I expected Windows 8 to be a dud. I am glad to say that Win8 is nowhere close to the dud that Vista was, not by a long mile. It's particular challenge is trying to create a change in user interface when the public are not really ready. I continue to advise my 10000 users to go with Win7 unless they enjoy a challenge. Maybe next time around the public will be ready for touch but we are not there yet in my opinion. But to compare 8 to Vista is an injustice as Vista was just plane broken and Win8 simply is a learning curve. Sure there are some issues but show me an operating system just released which doesn't have something to complain about, and that includes Linux.

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burntham77

It was a Maximum PC guide posted on this very website that turned me into a WIndows 8 user. Just a handful of tricks and tips and I had everything I needed to use it full-time. I do not miss the Start button, because I can do all the same things I did before, but some items are just in different places. The OS still needs a little work, like maybe having all the system settings in one area, but overall I am pleased.

I noticed that percentages are being used instead of a real quantity of units sold. The marketplace is different than what it was when Vista was released, so just showing percentages might not be showing the full story. Granted, these are preliminary numbers.

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pastorbob

I started out as one of the haters but when I was challenged by another reader here to give it an honest try, using it in the same way I had been using Windows 7, I did and became an overnight convert. Once I became familiar with the shortcuts it was a no brainer.

I agree about not missing the Start button but for me it's because I rarely ever used it anyway. And you also hit the nail on the head about the percentages game. I would love to see actual numbers of units sold.

Also I think comparing Windows 8 to Vista is comparing apples and oranges. Vista had major hardware compatibility issues and crashed a lot. I've not had any problems using my hardware (actually using a 14 year old inkjet on one system),and I have yet to have single crash in two months of using Windows 8. I upgraded an older laptop and the improved performance was amazing.

There are some people who are never going to change their minds and give it a fair shake. I actually had a hater on another site's forum accuse me of "pretending to like it" just so I wouldn't have to admit I had made a mistake. I didn't even respond to that idiocy.

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whr4usa

+1

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Carbira1

Another thing to look at would be the economy. Back when Vista came out a lot of people (including me) had a lot more money. Non-Enthusiasts are holding onto hardware until it craps out on them because they don't have the money.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Can you find a firewall that works in Windows 8 that can block ALL internal Microsoft components from sending or recieving data from the Internet and is easy enough to use and understand by non-techies?

Can you find one that also blocks Windows Security Essentials from sending and receiving data while it is blocked in the firewall?

Are you even aware that Security Essentials bypasses your firewall in Windows regardless of your firewall settings?

Are you aware that a default Installation of Windows 8 lets rogue programs send data to the Internet

Are you aware that Windows 7 is also a huge security risk for the same reasons?

Are you aware that XP computers can have better security than Windows 8 by simply blocking ALL microsoft components from network access in your firewall, password protecting an Admin account, and installing driveshield?

Did you know that the Internet still works fine for your web browser, Steam, or any other application that YOU, the end user allows through the firewall while blocking all Microsoft components in XP?

Are you aware that Microsoft actually Prevents the average end user from securing their Windows 7 and 8 machines FROM Microsoft controlled access to that machine?

Are you aware that you are a danger to yourself and others by remaining ignorant of this kind of behavior?

Do you like having persons unknown track everything you do on your "public" computer that you thought was a "Personal" computer?

Can you find anyone who can show you how "YOU" can prove any of these statements are wrong on "YOUR" computer or will they simply tell you that you are wrong without proving it on "Your" machine?

There is a difference!

SHOW ME how Windows 8 is more secure for the "Non-Tech" end user

I dare you!

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whr4usa

yes, Windows Firewall AND any other properly-coded third-party firewall (you do know that you can install multiple firewalls to handle multiple types of traffic or different adapters right?)

"Windows Security Essentials" is a malicious fake antivirus with potential for other malicious paylod to be downloaded as 'updates amongst other things... Windows DEFENDER is included with the OS and MICROSOFT Security Essentials is the antivirus add-on for 5.1.2600-6.1.760x
MSE can easily be configured to be blocked by Windows Firewall as can Windows Defender if you've half a clue about Windows' internals (you continually prove you don't)

"Are you even aware that Security Essentials bypasses your firewall in Windows regardless of your firewall settings?"
FALSE.
WFAS 6.1.760x++ is even superior to iptables (which i consider roughly equivalent with 6.0.600x WFAS) because the firewall rules' configuration is applied within the network stack itself so there's no technical opportunity for bypass and the firewall can be disabled and its own service stopped and all primitive rules will be unaffected

"Are you aware that a default Installation of Windows 8 lets rogue programs send data to the Internet"
I'm sure you consider anything code-signed by Msft as 'rogue' haha

Windows XP's firewall is IPv4 ONLY
layer 3 ONLY
only fitlers AFTER traffic is received and processed and ceases to function if turned off, disabled or the service is paused or terminated for any reason...
it is technically infeasible to insert a third-party firewall at a lower layer than the inbuilt firewall with NT5 and there's no assurance that firewall rules will be fully obeyed or the firewall of your choice won't itself get exploited which also blows a hole in your "block all Msft components theory... although you can use nLite to REMOVE them from an image beforehand)
driveshield can't do all you think it does
password-protecting an administrative account in order to have the desired effect on XP requires multiple registry changes and both microsoft updates and potentially non-update microsoft components in order to enable the level of encryption required which even then can only be applied the way the OS is hardcoded if your password in question is 16-31 characters only (the reasoning behind the original DoD 16-character universal password requirement)
XP having better security than 7,8 is FUNNY

if your broser, steam, any win32 app for xp works properly after ALL Msft OS components are blocked, that means you'vn't really blocked all of the Msft components or they're piggybacking on your exceptions because NT5 relies upon IE Foundation and serveral OS services for any form of network connectivity

EVERY security 'ingredient' worth using "prevents the average end user from securing their" system because your average user doesn't even consider 'security' of their digital gadgets and is clueless about what choices need to be made nomatter how pretty the UI gets

you're a danger to yourself and others by perpetuating these falsehoods without understand anything about computer science, Windows' internals, service management or information technology

...the moment you configure any system for internet access it becomes a public computer by definition

you're being proven wrong as I type

I accept your dare as I've already won it before this was ever written!

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PDX-1337

You lost my attention after the third question...

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Carbira1

If you are that paranoid then I'm sure that the Linux world will accept you.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

That's great!
I will be using Linux before I ever switch to Windows 7 or 8

You can be sure of that

It's not Paranoia either..

Malware like FLAME will be on YOUR computer for YEARS before you ever find it when all I have to do is reboot to eliminate it and any other virus or malware that has not yet been discovered by the Antivirus companies

I found Flame being field tested here in the U.S. back in 2006 but you never even knew it existed untill 2012

and the update to Flame is out there now

By the way, I also use a basic Antivirus as well as Anti-spyware software on my XP machine but simply forgot to mention them above and I do not recommend running a machine without them F.Y.I.

I am field testing this XP machine at all the malware sites I can find without any Microsoft security updates and I have yet to find anything that can cause permanent damage to my computer

How about you?
Do you feel safe or do you know you are?

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gatorXXX

It's not just Win 7 or 8. Cable companies spy on you. Cell providers spy on you. Places that you buy goods or services spy on you. This is nothing new and this day and age...is expected. I understand your concern for the need to be safe and prepared for what may come but no matter what you do...it's inevitable. All you can do is safeguard yourself the best you can and call it a day.

I'm dual booting Win 7 and 8 and the more I use 8 the more I like it. Metro is a waste and feels completely out of place on a non-touch PC. But I'm kinda used to it now, more so that I don't even boot into 7 anymore. It's not a bad OS really. I think it's just not ready for the mainstream masses as they changed to much to quickly and expected everyone to embrace it with open arms. Hell, even Google is heading this way by trying to eliminate SD card support and other core features that made Android compelling. I bet within 2 years, Google will be more like MS and Apple than you could possibly imagine.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

I Double Dare You!

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jnite

I double-dip dog dang dare you! Sorry, I'm just being doggone silly.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Diggity

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Baer

Anything that works through code can be broken with code, Windows, Apple Linux ANYTHING. It is just that any OS with a tiny share of the market is ignored. After all no one wants to rob an almost empty bank.
BJM, it is easy to ask a list of generalized questions.

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Engelsstaub

"It is just that any OS with a tiny share of the market is ignored. After all no one wants to rob an almost empty bank."

The problem with that oft-repeated theory is that Linux has more marketshare for servers. It's still not plagued with the malware that Windows is.

Why wouldn't someone want to write malicious code to screw up, exploit, and/or steal from servers?

Unix isn't bullet-proof...but I think there's a reason it has a higher server marketshare. (This doesn't mean that one can't be reasonably secure on the Windows platform. To Microsoft's credit they do a pretty admirable job of keeping up with most of the stuff they have to deal with on Windows.)

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Anyone that works through ignorance is already broken and can never answer a general question

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SongEmu

As a tech-aficionado, I can say I've gotten used to it, and it's not *terrible*. But If I were buying a PC for my parents, I would steer well clear of Win8. And I can't imagine any IT professional will be interested in "upgrading" to it from 7 in the workplace.

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jnite

I personally bought Win 8 when it came out because of the initial low price sale, and the fact that I have to work with computers so it's useful to have a copy of the OS for future repairs. But I haven't installed it on any of my computers. Maybe someday in the future, but not now.

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Baer

I got a Surface Tablet to learn Win 8 and last week I put it on my Notebook. I will soon build a new high end desktop and I will now start it with WIn 8. I was frustrated with Win8 for a day then I got a guide and decided to take a few hours to learn it instead of feeling that I should know it all just because I have used every OS out there. Guess what, I have gone from indifferent and a little frustrated to liking it and now I like it very much.
I teach computer use for our City for Seniors, yesterday I was with one of our other teachers who had all these complaints about Win 8. I asked him to specify and I was able to show him how to easily do every single thing that he had been saying could not any longer be done.
I remember the complaints when we went from the Win 3.1 interface to the "Start me Up" start button in Win 95, same thing.
I think that the haters (and I was one) should take a few hours to learn that the start button is still there (lower left corner on the desktop and click) and take the time to add what you want to the start screen, and set up your groups. Can you imagine someone complaining about the Win 7 desktop because the users files icon or Computor icon is no longer there instead of personalizing it to add the icons?
To be frank, all the bitchin and moaning or telling us to try Linux again (never will do that again) is getting a little old and it shows how little effort some make to learn.

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gatorXXX

Linux was the most frustrating piece of software I have ever encountered. Sure, the ones that have been with it from the start can navigate through it like a hot knife in butter but to an average joe, Linux is uneventful. I learned it, I bred it, and now it has children but I will never use Linux as my main OS.

I like 8. I also still like 7. I will continue to dual boot on my laptop till I feel the need to ax one or the other. But to be honest, I kinda like 8 more and more as I use it. I just wish Samsung's driver set for my Chronos Series 7 was more mature. Like in 7, using functions have on-screen blips that tell you what you pressed. But in 8, it's missing and it annoys me. They'll get it figured out in 2014 after I have already purchased a new laptop....lol

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eastbayrae

I used it in beta and had a lot of issues, especially with the Zune client and Bluetooth. I got a new ultrabook last month that had Win 7 on it. I did the upgrade to 8 and I really like it. They smoothed out a lot of the issues that the beta had.

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Happy

The new paradigm is smartphones and the public has already gotten comfortable with iOS and Android and I don't like Microsoft's chances at catching up to Google and Apple in that market this late in the game.

The new desktop computer is going to be a smartphone. When that happens, if Microsoft hasn't caught up by then, it will be forever shut out and will go the way of the dinosaur.

I see Android and iOS as the operating systems of the next 20 years or so.

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gatorXXX

I see what you're saying but....

I just can't see a smartphone (iOS or Android) take a 1.5 GB RAW image file and convert to different formats to work on all platforms in any efficient manner Geeze, it would take years for it to compile at its current state. This isn't gonna happen anytime soon. Sorry.

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derTorbs

Desktop computers will always be more powerful than smartphones....period. That is not something that will ever change. x86 computing and desktop operating systems are not going away anytime soon. Even Apple, which makes most of its money off Mobile, is intent on keeping up with a separate, desktop OS.

On another note, mobile OS space is about to get a lot more crowded with Windows Phone 8 and Blackberry 10. If you think an entity as powerful as Microsoft is going to "go the way of the dinosaur" you are sorely mistaken. Considering that Microsoft seems to be doggedly determined to make a dent in the market, I would not be surprised for WP8 to gain a foothold in the mobile space and Windows 8 to be generally accepted in 2013.

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Exarkun1138

I don't know what the big deal is with all this hatred towards Windows 8! It's absolutely ridiculous. I am currently running 8 on my laptop and I have had NO issues with it, and I actually enjoy the Modern UI side and the Desktop side is just like 7 with some really nice tweaks!

PC junkies can be so frakkin' stubborn to change that it makes me laugh at how the naysayers react to anything different. You had XP purists blasting 7, and now 7 purists(former XP purists), blasting 8.

Well, to all of you who hate on 8, OH WELL! I have been enjoying it for 2 months now and my Dell Latitude 6410 has never run faster! Modern UI works great with a mouse and is really nothing more than an expanded Start Menu from previous iterations of Windows.

I checked out a Surface RT tablet, and Windows 8 SCREAMS on that bad boy, and makes so many other tablets look so dated and slow!

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I Jedi

Nice try Microsoft PR team

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maxeeemum

+1

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SongEmu

Bro. That's not *real* windows 8 for desktops. It has about as much to do with this article as iOS has to do with OS X 10.8.

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Happy

Hey genius, can you say "shill"?

Try installing a non-approved operating system on your Windows 8 device and THEN tell me that you're still having "NO issues".

smh

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Carbira1

Are you talking about the surface? I can't think of a mass produced tablet that easily lets you switch between operating systems. Android tablets don't let you. iPads don't let you. Why would the Surface let you?

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eastbayrae

What exactly are you trying to say with this comment? 'Non-approved OS'? Are you trying to run Mac OS on a Win 8 device and complaining?

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bfree380

I don't think that Windows 8 is all that bad. It HAS received a lot of bad PR from the "purist," and people who have closed minds, and especially from those that haven't really tried it for any length of time. It's not a "Have to have," but for $40 for the Pro version, I felt it was worth it. There are quite a few performance boosts, and some nice refinements. Is it as good as Exarkun says it is? I don't think so, but I like it just fine on my desktop (no touchscreen).

As far as installing a non-approved operating system on your Windows 8 device, let me know when you successfully install one of those on your apple device with "no issues," then we'll talk.

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Baer

I have loaded every program I use in Win 7 on my Win 8 ThinkPad and they all work, approved or not, from security custom monitoring software for ADT to music applications to games and of course the Office programs that my clients all use. No issues, NADA and my boot times are 20% faster. I can not wait to see what it does booting from a pair of SSD's in RAID 0. I will bet under 15 seconds (Win 7 does it on that rig now in 20 Sec)
As far as Droid, it is a mess. every distro is different, it is fine for a phone but as we migrate to a one OS or similar OS for all devices I do not think Droid has a chance. As for Apple, there is still the issue that it has to be Apples way and you can not upgrade or modify easily and there is of course the Apple tax. Apple has come a long way but on a global use basis I will betcha that they will always be a distant 2nd place, a respectable 2nd don't get me wrong but .....
And before you say it, I am far from a Shill for anyone. I have been in Tec since vacuum tubes (analog) and latching relays.

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Baer

Oh, and do not compare Win 8 RT to full Win 8. Win 8 RT is an ARM capable tablet OS that has the same look and feel but it is light and locked to approved apps, just as Apple and droid do with their tablets.
Big difference under the hood.

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