Windows 8 Off to a Worse Start Than Vista

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AFDozerman

Hi silencer.

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whr4usa

really..?

...you do realize there are several generations of 360 hardware "in the wild" including a single microgenerational change (to SoCs) that @ any time they can decide to drop support for the eldest consoles once they've low enough usage and release a systemic firmware update which increases performance on every other console incrementally right?

xBox == "Direct EXtensions Box" (as opposed to nintendo's gameCUBE)

nothing better than DirectX 9c was ever promised but console developers got a small subset of Dx10 capabilities for limited use anyways; why are you posting on MaxPC supporting consoles we al lwish will die soon..?

developers have had access to DirectX 10.0 since late 2006 (meaning any game with a holiday 2007 release could have reasonably used it)
. . . Dx 10.1 since 2008 or earlier
Dx 11.0 since summer 2009 and now Dx11.1 since summer 2012 but relatively unchanged since late 2011

11.1 will also be able for Windows 7 SP1 machines anytime now via the platform update similar to how Vista got 11.0 which means any game written for Dx 10.0, 10.1, 11.0 or 11.1 can run on Vista or newer and they're all supersets on eachother (just like windows 7/8 editions) so the developer can let Dx handle fallback paths internally without any additional code if 9c isn't involved and the game uses pure Dx for Gfx and related

what's your problem?

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pratikrawankar

i hate consoles

until consoles gets upgraded hardware ___we pc gamers will not receive Xtreme gergeous graphics

bz Devs are being forced to use old polish-textures
even Ubisoft and EA told this in public

consoles must die

look at 2012 we have gtx 680 and HD 7970 ( I personally have GTX 660Ti and HD 7950 OC)
how many games are fully utilizing these cards powers ??

look at Call of duty and Assassins creed series , Dishonered , Transformaer , Darksider , formula F1 series and most of the games except fews
there is so little improvment in quality and innovations which i didnt consider

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whr4usa

+1

the few exceptions being;

BattleField 3

Galactic Civilizations II: Twilight of the Arnor
(StarDock Games designed this for Vista 64-bit Dx10 systems with 4GB to spare; has Gfx that self-tune over time)

Medal of Honor: WarFighter
(this is a stretch but uses BF3's unmodified engine)

I hope there are more and if not soon there shall be!!

Command and Conquer: Generals 2 anybody?

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

Windows 7 remains a better PC operation system.

I'm sure that other shit is great for phones and toys.

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mix0plix

give the consumers what we don't want, try it... I DARE YOU!

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Bullwinkle J Moose

OK

Here's one >

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/how-four-microsoft-engineers-proved-copy-protection-would-fail/

Here's another
Check out the info collected in Microsoft's Genuine "PRIVACY" Statement >

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/genuine/privacy-statement

Now try this...
Microsoft prevented end users from securing their own computers in a simple manner by discontinuing Steady State
Try finding an alternative to Steady State that is not only Windows 8 compatible but can also "NOT" be controlled by a 3rd party over the Internet

Feeling safe yet?

If you answered yes, then you most likely work For Microsoft, the RIAA or a 3-Letter Government agency (See also "Parasite")

If you answered no, then you most likely fit into the "Everyone Else" category

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whr4usa

Windows Steady State DID NOT WORK so get over it...even if it had, do you actually realize how insecure...not just insecure actually but insecureABLE the NT5 codebase is and was?

that first link has nothing to do with your point; the last doesn't mention anything that should be of value, unless you acquire their software illegally or mislicense it and even then 'WFAS' (as they're calling it now) or the imaging and servicing tools can be used to legitimately limit all of it ...though there's NO benefit for doing so unless you're bandwidth constrained i.e. MilSatCom nextGen's pathetic 8Mbps max bandwidth

if you don't count Msft as a 3rd party (I'm sure you do though HA) there's "Windows InTune"

if you do there's Group Policy + System Center + EMET + SIM + MDOP + VHDboot ++ etc.

you're just clueless and paranoid and either un- or mis-informed to the max.

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mix0plix

WINDOWS 8 FAIL! GET OVER THAT!

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mix0plix

WINDOWS 8 FAIL! GET OVER THAT!

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legionera

Why do you bug the people? Do you expect someone to become your follower so you could start a new religion or something? I really start feeling very intimidated from your comments. It's like you are one of those sects knocking on the door to talk to you about Jesus. Do you expect people to join your group so you satisfy your sadistic need to control people? Your every comment is a "conspiracy" or badly supported lie. How do you even keep using a computer if you feel unsafe from the government?

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mix0plix

windows 8 FAIL! get over that!

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mix0plix

@legionera, "conspiracy" or badly supported lie? sigh, another sheep dumb as a box of rocks

SAD

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legionera

I wasn't talking to you. He deleted his comment so yo have no idea about the context.

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whitneymr

Thanks for pointing out to him we all have "The Emperor has no Clothes" syndrome every time we see his name on a post. My wife is a hospital pharmacists and I'm sure can suggest a number of drug therapy's to help bring him back into being a productive member of society.

Would be nice if Maximum PC had an "ignore" button like a lot of other sites do.

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mix0plix

and another...

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m35g35

And, he needs some serious couch time!

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mix0plix

and another...

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maxeeemum

No surprise here. I said Windows 8 was DOA after I installed the Developers Preview.

Vista was released at the end of January. Windows 8 was released at the end of October. Despite the Christmas season buying and the cheap upgrade prices Vista did better!!! LOL!!!

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livebriand

Oh no! Who could've predicted that shoving a tablet UI on everyone wouldn't go so well? (Except, umm, the majority of people out there who've seen Windows 8? I was saying this ever since I'd seen the first screenshots of 8, before the developer preview was released...)

Both of my machines have Windows 7, and will stay that way. Any machines I buy in the future will also be UPgraded to 7, unless they've decided to let people get rid of metro or at least fix its' glaring flaws by then.

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Hilarity

Its new, its faster, its shiny and it cost me $15. No brainer buy. Yes, Metro is a useless cunt but I see it once or twice and that's it. I ignore it. No reason not to upgrade.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Hahahahhahhahhaha

Hilarious

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guntlager

From my perspective Windows 8 is not a necessity for business nor for home use. I've ended up with three licenses, a Get Genuine one for a MacBook Pro, another Get Genuine one for a Mac Pro and an upgrade for the same Mac Pro (long story).

I really like using Windows 8. Other than missing the important-to-me heavy shadow under the active window the UI looks great once the blue on blue on blue theme is switched to something warmer. The desktop changes over Windows 7 really make sense.

Metro on the other hand is an embarrassing, effeminate, ugly splash of barely functional garbage. Spend a few minutes on an iOS device and Metro is just sad. How can so many smart people produce something so terrible?

At work our OEM software is barely W7 usable, not W7 certified but "there are no issues" as long as it's 32-bit in Classic Mode. Their apps are a hodgepodge of XP looking stuff, W98 looking stuff, lots of Java and even one site that is totally Mac Leopard, not even Snow Leopard.

Here is W8's problem. Do you really think that those OEMs are interested in spending the money on bringing their internationally used applications up to Windows 8 standards?. Ha ha. Additionally as much as I like using Windows 8 it does absolutely nothing that my Windows 7 Pro installation cannot do.

So that's it, Windows 8 is nice but why bother?

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

"How can so many smart people produce something so terrible?"

Because they are being micromanaged by manic, coked-up execs like Steve Ballmer.

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guntlager

Exactly!

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jonnyohio

Why windows 8 is off to a slow start:

1. There is no incentive from microsoft to upgrade from windows 7 to 8...no benefit to it at all for the user. A discount is not an incentive.
2. Games are no longer pushing hardware limits, and many people choose to upgrade their OS when they upgrade their hardware. The reason PC sales are slowing is because everything is made to run on consoles that have six year old hardware and Microsoft can pat themselves on the back for being a part of making that happen.
3. Few desire an interface made for a touch screen to be on a desktop that has no touch screen. The idea to create an OS that will work on tablets and desktops was a bad one from the start. They should have made an os for tablets and windows 8 for everything else.
4. It ain't broke, but they are trying to 'fix' windows 7 by replacing it with windows 8 that drastically changes the way we use windows...the way we have come to know and love.
5. There is no real reason to upgrade....none.

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warptek2010

No.5: There is one reason to upgrade... Microsoft's reason to upgrade that is. Push everybody through a portal to the Microsoft store so they can be just like Apple, a company they should've crushed under their toe 4-5 years ago if under the right leadership and vision.

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diedrichg

+1 Well said.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

The more that Microsoft tries to fine tune and hide the fact that Windows 7 and 8 are spyware platforms, the less sucessful they become

What could the NSA's biggest Spy Center in Utah possibly be used for if it is not to track every computer and cellphone ?

Not much

What good will it be if the "Alledged" Terrorists refuse to use your spyware platforms?

Ask U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens that question

As long as we have all the wrong people getting the Gov't contracts to provide "Security", we will never have any

3 weeks after DOS 5 came out, 99.9% of the population had never heard of a computer virus, yet there I was finishing my work on Shredder and Frag, the first programs that could actually destroy hardware

Shredder breaks critical system files into as many pieces as possible and Frag Fragments those pieces across a hard drive in patterns that were initially designed to lock up a computer system

What I found however, was that in many cases were the computer ran long enough before lock up, the hard drive could be destroyed trying to read a file that could never be read

In 2005, I was made aware of a method to actually destroy certain wi-fi network cards

The proof of concept was used on "My" network cards but I was not impressed

Both of my network cards on 2 separate computers died at exactly the same time but I found that I could revive them by removing them from my computers for a week

3 days after I had them up and running again, I became impressed when they both went dead at the same moment and the damage was permanent

NOW I was interested

In 2006, I thought it was impossible to do what Flame was doing on my computer
Back then, it was still buggy and could be found with some serious research as it was being field tested here in the U.S.

Knowledge of these things are not the problem, but having gatekeepers who only protect themselves IS the real problem

Cut funding to these Shillmasters of snake oil and make me Microsoft's chief O.S. Architect and then we will have real security

As long as these frauds keep getting Gov't contracts to prevent the end users from securing their own computers, we can never have security

and I think Mr Stevens would be very dissapointed in the road you have chosen to follow

Turning an operating system into a spyware platform with holes and backdoors that cannot be closed is not protecting anyone except the people who understand the problem and refuse to use your spyware when planning their attacks against people who had no idea what you were up to

You people are SICK

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ddimick

The Commodore PET is the first personal computing system I'm aware of that could sustain hardware damage caused by a program, many years before the period you're speaking of. This was around 1986 or thereabouts, I think.

As for the rest of your posts today, I honestly think you should seek help. There is such a thing as a healthy level of paranoia. This isn't it. Good luck.

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livebriand

Lay off the crack dude. Do you belong to the Tea Party as well?

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mix0plix

the GOV loves you, nothing to see here move along,move along

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warptek2010

The Tea party? What does that have to do with anything? Comparing someone you think is paranoid with a group of concerned citizens trying to combat government insanity? Maybe you're the one who needs to stop drinking the koolade.

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astroskiffle

Don't get me wrong, I like Windows 8. The support for large RAM, remote desktop, tighter boot security, faster boot times, and better multi-screen support are all most welcome at the more affordable price. I just don't understand the point of running Metro on modern desktop systems.

For me, Metro is the main drawback of the new OS. It's the best reason not to upgrade. It's an ugly poorly structured anti-WIMP mess. Few people have a desire to be stuck in full screen mode on modern multicore multithreaded desktop HD computers. I'll concede that Metro could be useful on large screen HTPCs. The UI looks and functions a lot like LG's SmartTV afterall. On a desktop however, the only things I run in full screen mode are videos. Hell I don't even launch video games in full screen mode if I can help it.

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firefox91

One of the reasons that adoption could be slower is that people LOVE Windows 7 and Windows 7 isn't that old. But when Vista came out, XP was old and people were ready to change. Microsoft failed themselves by trying to push out a new OS so soon. Of course it turning your PC in to a tablet didn't help any.

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Xenite

If only someone could have predicted this..... *rolls eyes*

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wolfing

My dad wanted to buy a laptop, so we went to Best Buy. I wanted W7 but all the laptops came with W8, so we got one.

I
HATE
IT

I don't know why people here say that people who say they don't like W8 is because they haven't tried it. I tried it, and I don't like it at all.

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noobstix

If I was still using Windows XP (or even Vista) to this day, I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade. But I've gone from XP to 7 (bought W7 2 months after it released) and don't really plan on upgrading for a while until it really becomes obsolete. By that time, maybe there'll be a Windows 9 (or whatever they plan to call it).

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livebriand

Personally, I would take Vista (particularly with SP2) over 8. (particularly since today's hardware is a lot more powerful than it was back in 2007) At least it doesn't try it's hardest to make you pull your hair out with a terrible UI.

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Penterax

Win 7 is probably the most popular Windows version ever, and Win 8 doesn't give most people a compelling reason to upgrade. Microsoft's biggest competitor is their own previous version. Contrary to what doom-sayers are trying to get you to believe, this isn't a bad thing.

I suspect most of the people predicting gloomy things for Microsoft are the kind that said the Mayan calendar predicted the end of the world, based on no other fact than their calendar ran out.

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Shalbatana

Just built a new system with W8 and honestly guys, it's not that bad. Sure it has some things that annoy the urine out of me, but I think a lot will go away with whatever the 1st sp is. Sure I miss the start button, but I"m approaching it with the idea that the metro is the start button for now. If I get fed up, I'll install a patch. If not then that's great too.

I really think people hate it more because they feel they should, because they think it's the thing to do. It has some problems, and as the maxpc review article said, there's some illogical merging issues and some lack of needed customization, but other than that...it's a faster win7.

If you haven't done so yet, don't just hate it to be trendy, give it an honest chance. I love win 7, and 8 has issues, but it certainly doesn't deserve the "burn in hell" attitude people have given it.

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jonnyohio

It's not really that we hate it...it looks to be ok....the problem is there no real reason to upgrade. I'm not in need of a new computer, because I just built one a few months back before windows 8 came out and I already plunked down the cash for win7 which I love and enjoy using. Why would I run out and buy a mediocre OS right now to 'try' and hope the things I end up not liking get patched at some point in the future... ill save my money and stay on win7 for now.

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gfd

Greetings and Happy New Year to you all. I was a DOS user years ago and then forgot about computers until ME and have used each version of Windows since. Each had its challenges. But I think the great thing is, that with a bit of time and tinkering Windows can be just about anything you want it to be. Heck, I even had Windows ME running like a clock.

I was really frustrated with the lack of a start button in 8, so I got a start button utility and voila! I suppose in time, I'll get used to the new interface. When I upgraded to Windows 8 pro the OS installed fully functional drivers for all but 2 devices. That is far superior to Windows 7. Boot time...way faster. New Task Manager is excellent. You can pause file transfers. Wakes up from sleep in a jiffy. You all know, I'm sure far better than I, that the list goes on.

But think for a second about a world where there was no Windows. No OS (that works all the time) to tinker with. Nothing to complain about when it didn't work. No OS that had multiple options and 3rd party applications for just about everything. No chance to say cooool! when you found a way to get another 2% performance when you thought it wasn't there. Think about a world of just Apple and Android. Think about reading Maximum iMac.

How many applications have been written for Windows? How many for Apple? How many people owe their jobs(programmers, tech media folks, consultants, etc) to Microsoft? All because of what is, essentially, a proprietary open source operating system (forgive the oxymoron).

Man this post is long! What I'm getting at is, we all dump on Microsoft. We pound on their shortcomings (vista, flight, etc) and tend to ignore what they do well (just about everything). Hell, I even read people criticizing Bill Gates' charity work. Criticize Apple and you hate God.Criticize Google and...how do you do that? You can't find them.

What I will say is the devil's in the details and IMHO, the implementation of the new UI was poor. Should have been more gradual. Hey...look how we made Windows 7 better...it's Windows 8! And by the way...we have this new UI which you can use for touch...great for consuming content...blah blah. I suppose that MS felt they had to change, but good marketing manages change. If Apple had done this, the mainstream media would all be talking about their bold leap into a new paradigm.

Sorry for the long post (sincerely, it is my first) but I've read with interest, over the years, the negative attitude towards MS and I wanted to throw my 2 cents (ok...25 cents) in.

Best wishes to Maximum PC and my fellow readers for 2013.

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whr4usa

gfd (and those whom replied to him) I've greatly enjoyed this thread more than any other in recent history on MaxPC

thank you

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tony2tonez

I agree with your last point. If this had been Apple the media would be saying what innovators they are. I think this is the next logical step is OS process. Maybe MS didn't do a great job but will change it.

Remember they had the tablet PC along time ago but it failed now look at tablets today.

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legionera

I share the opinion of my colleague and I would like to hear from you more.

I would like to mention that the W8 did not go to the extreme and forbid the Desktop interface. It gives you the choice - Metro or Desktop. I don't understand why people feel forced to buy a touch screen when they could perfectly use the desktop environment with a mouse and a keyboard. Microsoft makes the changes gradually following the basic business model. Unlike MacOS where there are no changes at all for more than a decade or Linux where changes come every day (this is a personal perspective, not another topic for argument).

And I personally like that M$ is actually listening to the customers and provide innovations the way that it will be of better use for the people and business.

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captainjack

Please continue posting, I quite enjoyed your opinion.

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reimermatt

The two computers that came to me this holiday season were simply people wanting Windows 7 put on because it came with Windows 8. Can I blame them? No way. I hope 8 crashes and burns. For a tablet it's great other than that it's more steps to get to the same thing than only took one or two in 7.

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AFDozerman

Definitely doesn't reflect my personal experience. It seems to be filling in its purpose very well, part of which is to draw back the droves of people MS has lost to Apple. My wife and a friend of hers both seemed to like it. Her friend actually asked her husband to install Windows 8 on her MBP.As a power user, I also have respect for Windows8 for some added features over 7. Metro also is easier for me to move around in.

As far as these numbers, vista launched in '07. The whole computing universe has turned on its head and grown by leaps and bounds. There are millions of other computers now and billions of more devices. Of course the percentages are lower. That's the way it's going to be. Also, I see that the linked website divides mobile and desktop OS numbers. I have to wonder if there are a lot of people who, like me, do a lot of their Googleing from metro as opposed to the desktop and this website is counting it as a mobile hit as opposed to desktop.

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whr4usa

+1

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