Windows 7 Upgrade Editions Will Require an Activated Copy for Verification Each Time its Installed

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David26

I'm sure glad I didn't cancel my pre-order.

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Blade66

This looks like the way to go for me...

 This is what Harold Wong of Microsoft posted in his blog 

"2. Todd: If you purchased the Windows 7 Upgrade, you only need the
original media (CD / DVD) of Windows XP or Windows Vista.  The Upgrade
media will ask you to insert the media from XP or Vista so it can
perform a check of the physical media before proceeding.  Of course, if
you already have Windows Vista installed on the machine, it will just
allow you to perform an in-place upgrade."

I'll just have to keep my Vista DVD handy

 

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isamuelson

Blade,

 

Thanks for the info. Glad I held off before cancelling my upgrade order. I wanted to wait and see what the eventual outcome would be. As for those that jumped the gun and cancelled their orders, wow. Now they have to pay full price. I figured I had a few months before I had to make a decision to cancel or keep my order since Amazon doesn't charge you until it's ready to ship.

Windows 7 can't get here soon enough. I've been holding off on reinstalling Vista which has gotten SO slow and clunky no matter how many defrags and cleanups I do. The RC has been running pretty spiffy for me, but I'm holding off for a few more months and I'll just clean install Windows 7.

 

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DriZzLe

*double post*

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DriZzLe

[quote]That method will work in the event of a system crash but generally won't work if you're making substantial hardware changes. (ex: MB change, etc).

You'll likely get a BSOD if you restore the old image on new hardware. [/quote]
How often does the average user change out motherboards? If you are an enthusiast, you should know better than using an upgrade edition.
& the "Vista Workaround" still makes you install the os twice, so why is everyone complaining.

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forumdude123

I was pissed off when I heard about this, but here's a way to avoid the pain of reinstalling 2 OS's after each reinstall:

 

1. Windows 7 RC 1 qualifies as an upgrade path. So clean install the windows 7 upgrade disc and activate it.

2. Get your hands on a copy of Acronis True Image, or another imaging program.

3. Image the drive. Save the image to a second partition and a couple of DVDs.

 

Now, every time you want to reinstall windows, reimage the drive from your partition or DVDs. In 5 minutes you'll be back up and running. 

 

That's it. 

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davefr

That method will work in the event of a system crash but generally won't work if you're making substantial hardware changes. (ex: MB change, etc).

You'll likely get a BSOD if you restore the old image on new hardware.  

 

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Khaled

You are screwed if you are in a non English speaking country, it's either Ultimate edition to get the MUI or methods that MS will consider illegal///

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Skillz_n_Magic

*edit*

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SmackBlob

Go to the blog of Microsoft employee Harold Wong: http://blogs.technet.com/haroldwong/archive/2009/07/08/can-i-do-an-in-place-upgrade-from-windows-7-release-candidate-to-release-code.aspx

It is very interesting to read. He seems to imply that the "workaround" in Vista may still exist in Windows 7.

 

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bearcat245

Ok, I understand the upgrade and what confuses me is the "loss" of use to the old OS software.

Here's my point: Vista Ultimate 64 bit upgrade (Actually own two other licenese for Vista Home Premium)

Upgrade to Windows 7 Professional and according to what I have read lose the licenese.

Is that true?  If so, then using my Vista Home Premium is the way to upgrade.

It is a no brainer going to Windows 7 as being an early adopter (Or fool) with Vista, Windows 7 is great.

(It's all in the upgrade urge-itist) Having to have the latest....etc.

I have used Windows 7 beta and have been using 7 RC since release and to say I won't go back is an understatement.

Work the system and not the other way around.

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davefr

If this is really how it works then it makes perfect sense.  Tie the new CD key to the previous CD key on MS's servers and then flag the old key as dead. From then on it's MS that remembers the upgrade vs. the user having to prove it each time they re-install. (in other words the W7 upgrade SKU morphs into the full version the first time it's activated with a previous key and the servers remember everything from then on) 

Let's hope this is how it works but so far there's been widespread rumors but no direct substantiation from MS. Even their own MVP's give conflciting info. However I'm betting this Dr. TJ method is correct.

From all of this it also sounds like MS is "throwing a bone" to the RC users and counting the RC as an upgrade.  If Dr. TJ is right then it won't matter when the RC expires.  Register W7 before 2010 and MS's servers will forever remember it as a valid upgrade.   

By
dr.tj on
Jul 13, 2009

It looks like you are misinformed about the changes to the upgrade install process.

If you want to reinstall at a later date, you won't need your old license key or the old copy of Vista installed.

Why is this different now? Because now when you install an upgrade
version, it requires the old OS's license key which will then be tied
to your new Windows 7 key on Microsoft's servers. The benefit to you is
that you can toss those old Vista media and license keys, since they
will be invalidated on Microsoft's servers. However, that also means
you can't then use that copy of Vista on another new machine.

Also, when you install you will always be given an option to "Clean
Install" which will put any old OS's in Windows.Old. That old directory
is more of a way to make things easier for you, Microsoft could have
just deleted it. This "Clean Install" option is available even without
the RC installed. And for those of us going from a 32-bit OS to a
64-bit OS, it's actually the only option allowed.

The upgrade version just wants your old license key just once, so it
can be tied to it forever on Microsoft's servers. So the only
fundamental difference to the "full" and "upgrade" version is how the
license keys are validated on the first try. After that, they are the
same. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the media is EXACTLY the same
when you get it from Microsoft, just that the license keys are
different so they can be handled differently on Microsoft's side

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MvanA

Maybe Microsoft should learn a lesson from Electronic Arts.  If they just make disc copies and pirated versions work as betas/basic installations and activation unlocks the full OS then pirating wouldn't be such a huge problem for them.  It would also allow users to provide "proof of purchase" of a previous installation AFTER installing Windows 7 as it would just be unlocking the blocked content.  They could just ask for your previous installation disc to be inserted or for your previous activation key.  Why make it harder than it needs to be?

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Skillz_n_Magic

That won't work for corporate customers who have to load hundreds or thousands of PC's.

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internetReklam

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isamuelson

From Microsoft's site, it appears to debunk this article. That or MS hasn't updated their web site yet to reflect what the article states.

http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Windows-7-Professional-Upgrade/product/8BB1A4B4

*Important Pre-order Details

 

  • Make sure your PC is compatible with Windows 7. Download and run the Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor.
  • Windows 7 will be available starting on Oct. 22, 2009.
  • Your card will not be charged until your order is shipped or the product is made available for download.
  • See the Pre-Orders section for additional details.

 

Running Windows Vista?

If you have Windows Vista, you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. You can do a clean install (back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications) or an in -place upgrade (Windows 7 installs over Windows Vista).

Running Earlier Versions?

If you have Windows XP or Windows 2000, you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. But you must back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications. 

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Pyrophorics

Just canceled my preorder on 3 copies. Wasn't sure if I even wanted to upgrade in the first place but now I am sure.

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DriZzLe

I do a re-install about every 6 months. I see no point in doing so any more often than that, unless I swap motherboards. I keep my hdds defragged on a weekly schedule, run regular registry cleaning & scan for virus every 3 days. My pc is extremely fast. & yes, I like to upgrade & tinker with my hardware just as much as the next MPC reader. I also understand that if I buy an upgrade, it is just that: an upgrade. If you find the rules for an upgrade set out by Microsoft unreasonable, buy an OEM disk, or better yet, switch to Linux.

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JohnP

 It started way back with Windows95. Reloading an Upgrade Disk was SUCH A HASSLE as I had to load in an operating system that I DID NOT WANT just to "upgrade" to a new, clean install of the operating system I DID WANT.

  Just stick to OEM disks. About the same price and usually the activation goes with a click of a button. The worse you have to do is call MS and have an India teleoperator with a strong accent with a name of "John or Betty" ask you a couple of questions and you have to input a string of numbers and letters.

 Win7 is WORTH IT. Been using it for 6 months now and absolutely will not go back to Vista and (shudder) XP. MS has done a GREAT job in making things work this time around. XP is really showing its age and Vista just not as stable. Take the plunge.

 

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DoctorX

Can the MAxPC folk confirm/deny this?  If this is true, I can live with this.  In fact it makes sense why you can use the RC for initial install. (basically, ms is throwing us a bone for running rc).

 

source: http://hothardware.com/News/Rules-for-Windows-7-Upgrades-Verified/

 ========

 

By
dr.tj on
Jul 13, 2009

It looks like you are misinformed about the changes to the upgrade install process.

If you want to reinstall at a later date, you won't need your old license key or the old copy of Vista installed.

Why is this different now? Because now when you install an upgrade
version, it requires the old OS's license key which will then be tied
to your new Windows 7 key on Microsoft's servers. The benefit to you is
that you can toss those old Vista media and license keys, since they
will be invalidated on Microsoft's servers. However, that also means
you can't then use that copy of Vista on another new machine.

Also, when you install you will always be given an option to "Clean
Install" which will put any old OS's in Windows.Old. That old directory
is more of a way to make things easier for you, Microsoft could have
just deleted it. This "Clean Install" option is available even without
the RC installed. And for those of us going from a 32-bit OS to a
64-bit OS, it's actually the only option allowed.

The upgrade version just wants your old license key just once, so it
can be tied to it forever on Microsoft's servers. So the only
fundamental difference to the "full" and "upgrade" version is how the
license keys are validated on the first try. After that, they are the
same. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the media is EXACTLY the same
when you get it from Microsoft, just that the license keys are
different so they can be handled differently on Microsoft's side.

 

===============

 

 

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Pentium 0

Wow, that sounds much better if its really true. So you dont need anything installed to upgrade? just a key?

I feel bad for the poeple who canceled their preorder and now cant get get the discount back, even though they dont charge you till october....

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alanmc76

 Yes, that does sound much better.  However, that is not what is coming from MS reps and TechNet at this point.  Hopefully, MS will put something in black and white soon.  All we have right now is rumors, but here's to hoping...

 _________________________________________

-- "What am I, MacGyver? Fix it with what?"--

 

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Justin.Kerr

Our source was linked in the article, The Chronicle and is very respected news outlet, I trust the information.

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DriZzLe

I think some of you are forgetting this is the UPGRADE we are talking about. Not the OEM or RETAIL. To UPGRADE you will need an activated os to UPGRADE from. You had to have valid proof of a previous os to upgrade to Xp, to upgrade to Vista, & now to upgrade to 7. If you don't want to UPGRADE, buy an OEM or RETAIL,then You will not have to have any os present to install. Holy Crap. Some of you guys are ridiculous.

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DoctorX

no.... you are wrong sir.... all you should have to do is put in your old key and it should be enough.  This activated copy shit is hihgly unnecessary.  It will not stop the pirates and it will clobber the honest folk.  Already 60% of businesses say they are not upgrading.  Most stayed on XP.

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jcseely

A valid key from a previous OS should be enough. Perhaps Drizzle, you don't reinstall your OS on a regular basis like many of us. It *is* a major pain in the ass.

Like many others have pointed out, and that exceedingly few software companies realize, is that lots and lots of people will *willingly* pay for their products if they are simple and easy to install. iTunes by itself proves this. And oh yeah, let's not forget a little thing called Steam.

All these clunky DRM measures have exactly the opposite of the intended effect....they *encourage* piracy, not thwart it. Plus the added bonus of boning all the honest, loyal customers.

Just look at how insanely popular the $50 upgrade deal was when it was announced. There's proof right there that people will pay for a good product when the company treats them right.

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jihnn

some of you fan boys are all about this is sweet all i have to do is make an image,  hope hd doesnt fail,  and all is good

 yea right.... its my puter... got that it's    MINE..... i will not jump through any hoops to satisfy  ms quest  against piracy

we all know within months, if not hours, someone will crack the system and post it on the internet... duhhhh   the only peeps being put out are the legal users

how abut this instead of  playing the ms game i'll just  downlaod a copy without all the bullshit that comes with a legal copy

 you pay and play their game, fine its your computer

for me......ay captin   reporting for duty

 

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isamuelson

The only problem with the RC activation is if you try to activate it after 2010, it won't work anymore since that's the expiration year for the RC. So, eventually, you'll HAVE to have a copy of Vista or XP that you can activate.

My problem is that my copies of XP and Vista are OEMs. I know XP is now requiring me to call to Microsoft due to a change in hardward (I believe it was my video card and new memory even though those shoudln't have caused it). Vista is still fine since the hardware I have right now is the same as when I initially activate Vista.

 

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DoctorX

I find it very suspicious that i cannot find no other sites reporting on this.  We need sources and verify them.  I am not saying it isnt true (sounds just like microsoft to me), but something this big would be all over the place... and I cannot find a single article.

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alanmc76

 For what it's worth, I asked this very question on TechNet.  I was answered by two TechNet Answerers exactly as Justin outlined it in the article.

Here's the link to the TechNet thread:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itproinstall/thread/b47bc608-bfe8-4f55-8b00-62c26a6112ca

 _________________________________________

-- "What am I, MacGyver? Fix it with what?"--

 

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tubaguyry

Am I the only person who's stoked that the RC counts as an activated OS from which to upgrade? I wasn't looking forward to having to do another install of XP BEFORE I could install the Windows 7 upgrade. It seems pretty simple to me. I just grabbed another RC product key for my wife's computer so that we can take advantage of the bundle pricing. It sounds like it could be a bit of a pain in the ass to reinstall later, but I don't see how you could end up NOT being able to use your product if you've come by it legitimately and followed the rules of the issuer of the product.

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isamuelson

You DO realise that in 2010, the RC effectively shuts itself down? Eventually, you will no longer be able to activate it. After that happens, what do you do then if you need to reinstall?

Remember, the article states you must have an activated copy of a previous version of windows installed on your machine. 

However, I posted something from Microsoft that seems to imply that you do not have to have an activated copy installed. Only that you must have a valid copy of XP or Vista. Hopefully, all you have to do is type in the key from that copy and that's it.

But, if it's true what this article in Maximum PC states, then your RC will only be good for you until 2010. After that, if you do not have a valid activated copy of XP or Vista, then you're hosed.

 

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davefr

But Dr. TJ is implying that it doesn't matter when the RC goes "poof".  Upgrade and activate W7 by using the RC key and from then on MS's servers will treat W7 as a full vs upgrade sku. (only need to prove the upgrade once).

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alanmc76

 No, Tubaguy, you are not the only one.  Unfortunately, the only voices heard in this world of ours are the complaining ones.  I think everybody are overreacting in the typical alarmist fashion.

 _________________________________________

-- "What am I, MacGyver? Fix it with what?"--

 

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methuselah

So according to what the article sez, if I want to do a clean install using the upgrade of Win 7 PRO I could....

Install my copy of Vista Ultimate and activate it again (as it's currently activated today).

THEN

Reboot with my Win 7 PRO DVD and install Win 7 PRO which will detect my activated version of Vista, rename that install to Windows.old and move forward with a clean install.

Once the install finshes I can delete Windows.old and continue to install all my proggies.

 

This doesn't seem like too much of a problem, only adds an additional install step of installing Vista before Win 7 PRO.  I'm not concerned about activation because I've activated many many copies of XP and Vista.  Most of the time you call the phone number and activate with the automated system.  Worst case scenario is you wind up on the phone with an actual person and they ask you a couple questions "Is this installed on another PC?" "Is this your first time installing this copy of Windows on this PC?"

 

If this is how the scenario goes, then it's not a huge hassle although M$ should make it easier and simply ask for a valid install disc instead of an activated copy of Windows.  They certainly will push more pirates into grabbing their software illegally.  I'm not saying it's right but it WILL happen.

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bradly1011

I was a happy early adopter of XP x64. I purchased a 'full version', and it came on a MS CD (with all the holograms, etc.) and in big lettering 'LICENSING'. I've since learned that it is a 'Volume License' edition which wasn't mentioned on the web page.

It never asks to be activated, but all Windows updates and validations work fine.

I purchased the Win7 Home Premium upgrade. Will this upgrade path work? I've Googled and Googled to find an answer, but cannot.

 

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Vegan

Yeah, I have one of these, too. My version of XP doesn't HAVE activation, just a serial number. On top of that, it's a slipstreamed CD-R copy that I've burned. I guess I'll just have to wait and see if it works. If it doesn't I'll have to go through other means; whatever, MS got my hundred bucks, that should be enough.

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Righteous Fury

Like so many others, I have now cancelled my pre-order. This is insane and unless they make a substantial change, I will not by purchasing this verion of Windows.

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rehless

 

  I also skipped Vista completely. Have xp pro on two machines. Leave it one my main machine, get rid of the Dell and get an iMac for the second machine. Keep xp till it dies.

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alanmc76

XP is already on life-support.  System builder licences for XP Pro expired January 31, 2009.  Official support will be extended only one year after Win 7 is realeased, so on October 22, 2010 you can say goodbye to XP forever.

Read:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

 ______________________________________________

-- "What am I, MacGyver? Fix it with what?"--

 

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cardfan

Try this one:

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-gb&C2=1173

XP has extended support until 08/04/2014.

 

Differences between "extended support" & "mainstream support" are listed here in the chart:

http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy

And this includes Security Hotfixes + Microsoft Knowledge Base until 08/04/2014.

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ez223

I'm going to just install Win7 RC on all my home computers this week.  I've already done two of my four computers.  Once I get the upgrade copies of Win7 I'll install them all and then I will back up the initial images to my Windows Home Server.  Finally, a really great reason for buying WHS.  Those backups can be locked so that they aren't deleted.  It's a fairly painless process to restore any of the computers when necessary.

Other than that I'm pretty curious to find out if a clean install will be able to be done from a legit, activated Win7 system.  Seems logical.  It just can't really be as Doom & Gloom as everyone is making it sound.  I'm not canceling my pre-orders for now.

EZ

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VaMage

Sadly the bottom line is that the customers will live with it, in a very short while the industry mags will either not mention it or support it, and yes I include MPC. We have lived with this all the way back to Win98.

I usually just bite the bullet and buy an actual copy because M$ will always make as many hassles as they can get away with, for every other kind for license. I skipped Vista so this one hurts a bit less then usual. Plus I usually will be giving my old rig to my wife, daughter, or someone and so I give them the license for that PC's OS to go with it.

That said, I personally wouldn't have a beef with a legit upgrade user who then pulled a corporate unlocked version. Why should someone have to put up with image hassles just to flat line their rig, hell if Windows didn't suck we wouldn't NEED to refresh the O.S. in the first place!

VaMage

American by Birth, But Southern by the Grace of God.

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Techrocket9

The digg button is broken for this page. The URL is rejected. I hade to put it through a url shortener to make it work. You can Digg it!
 

 

_____________________________________________________ 

An army of pacifists can be defeated by one man with the will to fight.

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gatorXXX

I just learned I can do a drive image/backup with nero 9's Backitup!!  I'll use it to back up both XP/ and vista on an old drive just incase of problems. Now, since Win 7 has a drive image app, I will use that and see how it works. If not, then I have XP and Vista ready to go for re-installation.

Yeah, its a pain, but it's all good...

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jeffhex

Hard drives fail, and only very technically savvy users (a too small minority) make drive image backups.

So... if this holds true, two situations WILL occur that will screw MS customers:

1) Upgrading user's drive fails so they replace the drive. New drive would need older windows reinstalled so that upgrade Win7 can be installed. Older Windows disk is not available. User screwed.

 or

2) Drive wiped (for any reason, but likely scenarios include malware attack or just to remove 'cruft' and tidy things up) so Windows needs to be reinstalled. Older Windows disk found, but because license was canned by MS when upgrade was installed, license cannot be used again. User screwed.

Sounds like this it going to seriously encourage software piracy, regardless of what MS charges for the upgrade.

 

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alanmc76

 ...So don't lose your copy of XP or Vista.  You paid $100+ for that software.  It seems to me a pretty good reason not to misplace it.  I think people are just overreacting to all this.  After all, most inconveniences can be averted with a little planning ahead.

 _________________________________________

-- "What am I, MacGyver? Fix it with what?"--

 

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billcipp

Let's hope your not one of thousands who were never given a copy of their operating system as it was pre-loaded when you purchased your PC.  If your drive is toast after Windows 7 install then what?  Or do we all need to request a copy of our current OS from our PC manufacturer.  Either way, a big hassel is instore for all.

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Pentium 0

So....I dont have to install xp or vista on my Win 7 RC totin' rig right? I can just upgrade from the RC?

And I really dont see the problem with the upgrade process since you can just "upgrade" over top of you previous 7 installation. Which i'm not sure but I think that makes for a clean install right?

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bingojubes

it is a sad day for me today. Oh well, i guess MS was not expecting so many pre-orders...either this is a way to scare people off, or go out and buy the retail (full, not upgrade) version. least over the phone, while cancelling my order, they weren't bent out of shape about it.

so if i have the RC installed on an empty, new drive, that counts as a valid OS install? i am downloading the RC to play with so i can load it on a drive sometime this week. maybe il just get the damn retail copy, lol. too much confusion, i guess. i cant seem to find a windows 7 forum thread. hopefully we can take our opinions there, instead of clogging up the main website.

 

Maybe put it in a "windows 7 upgradeing/pre-order" thread or something.

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