Windows 7, Milestone 3

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V-Lad

After the big failure of Vista, Microsoft could not possibly be dumb enough to not learn from its mistakes. I think that Windows 7 will be stipstreamed, not overstacked with apps that hog computer resourses. If microsoft is smart, I'd expect to see an operating system that is as featureful as Windows Vista, and as stable and easy to use as XP. That would be the perfect OS. My only fear is that there might be a zillion versions of windows 7, just like with Vista. I hate having so many choices, with the cheaper versions heavily handicapped feature wise.

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matmatician

Linux is beconming so easy to use, that nearly anyone can use it. Ubuntu, one of the most user friendly versions, can be installed in a matter of an hour, assuming you have a decent internet connetcion. Dell is going to start installing it on some of their computers instead of windows. Throw that in with Wine (a program that can run windows dll's and other progam files) you have a real winner.

 

Oh, and not to mention, linux is free.

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HockeytownWax

I've been "beta testing" Microsoft OS's since Windows98, and the only one that had that "WOW" factor was the first beta of Windows 2000.  WinMe was flat out pathetic, and XP with its rounded corners didn't impress me at all. Vista is Bill Gates' way of making money off hardware upgrades as well as the initial cost of buying the OS.  Making it a necessity to upgrade both your RAM and your Vid Card just to install an OS is flat out criminal.  If Windows 7 just slaps a new coat of paint on Vista's GUI and they lay a few tweaks on some old apps then MS is jus asking for another failure.  Somewhere along the line, something new and innovative MUST be added to Windows 7 to make its release valid and draw those still running XP to the new OS.

 With the success of the bazillion other games and apps and business OS's, I believe Microsoft can be innovative with this OS and divide it into 2 discs. Disc one can contain the OS, stripped down to its bare bones ... no games, no apps, no management tools ... just the naked OS ... and give it away for free.  If having $50 billion in cash isn't enough money for Microsoft then The Feds need to get off their fatcat behinds and investigate.  Disc two can contain all the apps and games and tools and interface toys, allowing the user to totally customize their install and clutter their hard drive with what they want.  If your install runs crappy then its your own damn fault for installing too much junk. Charging money for disc two is understandable, but a naked OS should be free ... no excuses.

Vista using 900MB of system RAM right off the top MUST be corrected in Windows 7. Sure, i'll be first in line to test this "new" OS when it finally goes beta, but i'm certainly not expecting miracles, nor am I expecting Windows 7 to impress me. So far, these "milestone" builds have shown me nothing.

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ghot

1. im 51 years old I've reached points you haven't imagined yet...MR. GREEN

2. I borught up DEP becoause most people don't know it exists and that is has two options and until recently

CPU's didnt have it..or the ability to employ it. With DEP turned ON XP is as secure as VISTA if not moreso

3. I brought up GPS to make a point....noone needs it...they just bought the hype...Columbus found America

and he didnt even have LORAN...the precursor to GPS.

4. Profiles...great idea! Assuming of course MS can restrain itself from making decsions about what default

options WE want.

5. Ribbon bar is stupidest thing I've seen since...well damn...since the dawn of time.

6. What this has to do with Windows 7...should be obvious...from the leaked info we have so far...it APPEARS

that MS is not going to LEARN from their mistakes...they are even going so far as to try to brainwash ppl

into thinking they weren't "taken for a ride" with Vista...aka the Mojave test.

7. As for Econ 101, Mr. Green....apparently YOU have a LOT to learn....MS cares about ONLY their bottom

line, to the exclusion of what is good for us and THEM!!!

8. It's time MS found its "honor" again..and truly give the ppl what they want. Which can be easily

discerned from the 20 million or so complaint/suggestion posts all over the web.

9. "you build it they will come" is FICTION...it's from a movie...you build a fast, mean, lean, secure and backwards compatible OS and you won't HAVE to hype it.......THATS Econ 101.

10. Vista is a product from backroom deals, kickbacks from hardware manufacturers, and bottom line concerns...no demeographics told MS to make VISTA lol.....they ARE telling MS to get their head out their bottom line or Windows 7 is going to get a far worse reception than Vista did....

11. ...and don't EVEN compare the Vista (trick the customer-rollout) to the XP roll out...sure XP was different and SOME complained but in all honesty it WAS a better OS even before SP1 and SP2.....with the one exception: too many useless changes for no reason....aka the new start menu...duh! Be honest who DIDN'T kill the puppy search assistant....I see no hands raised lol

12. MS knew Vista sucked...why else would they have to force it down ppls throats BEFORE they released it....free upgrade....this machine Vista only....etc I mean can you smell the cigar smoke from the back room deals? If Vista was so great, why did MS LIE to the world and say "..we can't port DX10 to XP....or release software and games that ONLY run on Vista.....thats what you do when you trying to get your ugly sister married lol

13. Dont let my anger at Vista and what APPEARS (so far) to be Windows 7...throw you...MS is/WAS a great company and easily can be again....but it WON'T happen if people don't speak with their wallets !! As long as we marry their "ugly sister" so to speak...they have NO motivation to give US what WE want. You spoke of "market demands" well the market don't like Vista...I mean if you can't see that....I'm sure MS has a spot for you on their staff.

 

For Windows 7 to succeed it must be this:

XP w/DX10.....option/profiles for any desire, but OFF by default, one or two versions at most, a serious improvement or dismemberment of the ridiculous activation crap....which is still a problem with even XP...I mean how many YEARS do I have to have an MS OS before they believe I bought it....activation should NOT be tied to ALL the hardware in a computer either......parts wear out, simple as that...why should I who actually BOUGHT XP have to continually have to re-prove that I bought it. Althogh XP's activation was way better than Vista draconian BS. I think even you must admit there was a sea-change difference between XP and Vista and NOONE liked it. If they don't fix these issues with Windows 7 MS is gonna be in for some lean times.....even the non computer saavy people aren't gonna be fooled twice!

I don'tWANT to see MS fail....I liked all their OS's (cept ME lol) up till Vista.....I want them to "get back to their roots" and do the right thing once again....

Lastly....they need to quit tying every device into one big glob.....with the internet cooties rampant as they are...thats the dumbest thing anyone could ever do....now...not only my comp can be infected, but my phone, my music service, my audio visual equipment, any OTHER comps I network together, and quite possible the entire house I live in......even the stupidest military strategest knows that if you put all your men in ONE spot.....it only takes one bomb.....MS needs to keep subsystems, attainable but as seperate as possible....and still simple for the user to operate.

 

They do all this and they won't have to TRICK people into buying their OS....they WILL have to worry that they can't produce enough copies :)

 

 

 

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nedwards

3. I brought up GPS to make a point....noone needs it...they just bought the hype...Columbus found America and he didnt even have LORAN...the precursor to GPS.

Technically, Columbus found America, but he was lost - poor fool thought he was in Indonesia. If he had had GPS he would have actually gotten where he was going. Or, you know, if he had listened to the more educated people of his day and realized that the earth was a lot bigger than he thought it was.

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ironsmyth777

Let me start by saying this, I don't care who writes the next great OS as long as it truly is great. Just as I don't care if General Motors goes belly up Microsoft needs to watch themselves... closely. I've evolved enough throughout my life to stop giving a crap about someone's brand name and what it stands for. There are better OS options out there already (stop screaming linux lover long enough to listen folks) but the mainstream won't see them. Just as Ford (again, don't give a crap if they succeed or fail, it's all about the final product) has released a 60+ mpg car in Europe we won't see it here in the US. Why? Bureaucracy. (but that's another story) The point is that something that will cure a lot of our problems is already out there but we (Average, Joe) won't see it because it's not the next big thing. A lot of this we have brought on ourselves by buying every piece of crap we have be mediaized (kinda' sounds like a Bushism don't it?) into thinking we have to have. I think we should stratigize, lol, more before we fall for it again...  Take a test drive of an OS (and yes you can test drive even Vista before you buy it, go to Best Buy or the sort and tell them you want to see it before you buy it and they'll trip over themselves to get you to a machine) and if you don't like it DON'T BUY IT. If you like it by all means BUY IT. The same as you wouldn't buy a car you didn't like (and thus the General Motors reference) don't buy the crappy software. Capitalism will ultimately rule what products are a success.

 

The grass is always greener... over the septic tank.

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Techrocket9

www.addintools.com/english/menuoffice

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ironsmyth777

I think my point may have been mistaken. It's great that this is offered but why should we have to pay for this? That should be nothing more than a checkbox away and not a seperate program.

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wk

I like idea of adding option to windows installation. GREAT

But what about adding profile to windows; like office, internet, gaming, general ... etc.

every profile should have the ability to turn on/off system services and applications according to their need.

it could free unrequired system resources and make windows lighter and faster.

MPC is my home page

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ironsmyth777

Now we're thinkin!!! Thank you!

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EricVLustbader

The Ribbon Bar Sucks. I have 35,000 users (yes, 35,000) we are NOT moving to Office 2007 until we find a way to replace the Ribbon Bar with a menuing systems like that in Office 2003, in fact one EXACTLY like the one in Office 2003.

I'm not alone either. My compatriots at my competition and our suppliers and our customers are NOT moving to Offie 2007 because of the Ribbon Bar.

In all we represent 1.3 Million lost Office 2007 licenses because MS implemented a change that requires intensive retraining of our entire established workforce (a cost of roughly $500 Million).

We have expressed our disappointment and their response? "Our 4000 test users found these changes very helpful."

I have talked with several of the alpha and beta testers of Office 2007 and their golden reviews were based mostly on how cool the auto-formatting in Excel is and how easy it is to change formatting in Word.

2/3rds of our basic functionality are not on the primary ribbon bar and the other third exist only as Options which have to be added to the Quick Access Toolbar. (Like Forms in Excel).

If it weren't for the issues regarding universaility we'd be adopting Open Office.

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Thunderbuck

I'm calling BS.  People have been turned off of Office 2007 for the same reason they've been turned off of Vista: it doesn't look like what they're used to. 

Microsoft did a lot of research before they introduced the ribbon bar.  First-time users had a much easier time using it.  Yes, long-time Office users found they had to look at the programs a little differently.  I will admit that I've spent my share of time hitting F1 to find somewhat arcane functions.

I think MS did a pretty good job of organizing functions, actually.  Keyboard equivalents all still work, and very little functionality was actually dropped.  The only really good argument you can use against the ribbon bar is not that it doesn't work, but that it isn't what people are used to.  People were "used to" dial telephones and IBM Selectrics, too.

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ghot

1. I get no malware

2. I go to bad sites also...and still get no malware

3. Ive tried every OS out there....I am an old fart ya know lol?

4. If it aint broke.....fixin it is just a way to TAKE YOUR' MONEY

5. Read #4 about 20 times till you actually understand it.

6. Most CPU's and/or chipsets support DEP...you DID know that you can just turn it on in XP right lol?

7. just as a side not: I can actually find where I'm going with a Rand McNally Atlas....so short of police or military apps.....people who bought into the GPS SCHEME aren't much brighter than those that bought VISTA!

8. Lets hope Microsoft DOESN'T listen to the "fluff" majority this go round....or the gonna have another......

VIST--OOPS on their hands....oh my bad youll buy it anyways lol

9. No ...wait I take that back...you go right ahead buyin every new shiny POS that comes down the pike...I'll buy stock is POS sellers :)

 

 

P.S. after my build it yourself Heathkit ...I UPgraded to a Commodore 16...no storage...you had to re-write your' program (w/e is was) everytime you powered it off :) I'd really like to see these (Up and coming...soon to be broke...mofos, deal with somethin like that lol).....just waitin for that big EMP in the sky...I'll bet dollars to donuts...Mr Vista there can't work a slide rule lmao :)

For y=1 to 1000000

For x=1 to 1000000

Print  "I will buy whatever the marketers tell me to buy"

Next x

Next y

 

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GreenTurtle

  Your suggestion of not listening to the majority of users tells Me You don't have much of a grasp on the fundamentals of Buisiness. Of course Microsoft is going to move forward, even if every Tom and Joe Commodore will bitch about it. Nothing lasts forever; take new cars for example.....oh wait...scratch that...judging by Your economics skills that hasn't happened for You yet, but You seem like a pretty smart guy I'm sure you get My point.

 You make it sound as though Your the only person to start out on a commodore. Also not sure where DEP and GPS came into the picture. 

 And yes I probably will buy it anyways; because as a computer enthusiast, I like to keep up on the latest hardware AND software.

 Your honor; ..... I rest My case.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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GreenTurtle

 Yes Green Turtle; long story, don't ask LOL!!!!!

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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ironsmyth777

People get hot on this topic! Let me say again that I don't mean to offend anyone. I only want to be able to turn off the fluff, bells and whistles that apparently most folks want. That doesn't mean they are wrong for using it, I just don't want or need it. My only HUGE gripe is replacing something that isn't broken or really improved (just a face lift) for the sake of making a buck IF the old one is now considered obsolete... as in unusable due to non-support. Just call it a expansion set sell it that way. It works for games.

I'm not a Windows hater... or a Linux lover. I have (multiple) versions of each and they have their strong and weak points.

For those paying attention, the idea I had about a Gaming Mode is apparently not so bad, AMD just announced something similar (AMD Fusion beta) but not yet as radical. It'll happen though.

With my "Options idea" Joe Commodore (me?) can buy the new Windows (or Linux, whatever!) and run it nicely. If they want the DX10 or 11 (again whatever!) buy the hardware and THEN TURN ON THAT OPTION! Right now people (and I mean Average, Joe) are left behind because they don't see light at the end of the tunnel. Why buy a new machine with new software when it will run the same or slower than what they already have? (Average, Joe doesn't know how to tweak!) Most folks here are enthusiast. Great... but what about the masses that aren't? I honestly think it would increase sales of new hardware if the OS "Options" were made a reality... and maybe my mother would quit having me tweak her machine.

Maybe Windows 8 will be "Windows- Options". Ahhh... that would be great!

for those who don't know what my Options thing is please read previous post

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GreenTurtle

 I would not be opposed if Microsoft allowed the option to easily turn off the junk, and to be honest I am not sure why they have not as of yet. It is a good idea. I am just tired of hearing people complain for a year and a half about something that isn't so bad. Then now complain about something that isn't even released yet. I have never encountered a subject where everyone can agree; I suppose Win7 will be in the list aswell.

Tom and Joe commodore was mearly an example and I am not refering to anyone inparticular.

This is what happens when you get grumpy old men together. LOL!

 

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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Thunderbuck

...of course you can "turn off the junk" in Windows.  You can make Vista look like Win 2000 if you really want.  Just go to Themes and select "Windows Classic"

And then party like it's 1999...

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GreenTurtle

 Thank-You for helping to prove My point :)

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ironsmyth777

Grumpy old men are like that! I agree about the complaints. I got caught up in it too. I was trying to stick to the "here's what I have never liked about OS providers in general" line but I think I went overboard. Plus I was taken out of context (big surprise there!) on more than a couple of points.

BTW I ROTFLMAO at the Joe Commodore comments! No offense taken

 

The grass is always greener over the septic tank.

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ironsmyth777

You go ghot! I have the feeling that you and I are the older ones in this mess... My first machine was an Apple II gs. Back in the day when you had to be able to type. You had to know what was going on in the software in order to do anything. Maybe that's why I hate poor performing software. I know that poor performance is either intentional or they don't know how to optimize what they're doing. Both worry me.

I was serious about options. Why not sell one 'version' with different levels available within that install. Basic is straight out of the box, boot it up, choose your features via a check-box system (like a collapsible tree menu maybe) and start with that. You want a Pro version? Pop the disk back in and up pop an option box asking what you would like to do- turn on more visual features, upgrade to Pro/Office (containing all the extras needed to run an office including Office! Duh...), or upgrade to Media (containing everything for an entertainment system), or even a gaming option (with options to let you run Xbox games and networking features all while putting the computer in game mode and turning off anything that might possibly slow down the performance). The other versions have to be downloaded so the disk can't be hacked. Get the idea?

Regular (or Home if you will) system features are free, Pro? Please pay an extra $100. The same with Media (ok, maybe $50 for that one) and Gaming $200 (sound outrageous? What did the last Xbox cost? Why should Microsoft do it? They don't have to build an Xbox... easy profit.) For those who don't want to pay online, sell a card (like World of Warcraft, City of Heroes etc.) and call it in.

Here's one everyone will hate. Buy the OS (with install options!). Then have an option to buy or rent the upgrades...  Pro/Office for a month? $10 etc... We can do it to play, why not to work?

There are OPTIONS and they are still (if not more)profitable. Who's going to put forth the effort to completely redo the piss-poor system we have? 

Just a thought...

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GreenTurtle

 Microsoft is trying to cater to the majority rather than the minority. They have done extensive (and expensive I am sure ) research into finding just what the majority want and are attempting to bring that about. Unfortunately for some of Us, that includes all of the fluff. I do not include Myself in that catagory because I am not having difficulty with Vista. I happen to find the Extras very helpful. I suppose I am part of the majority.

 You can't please everyone, only as many as You can. There will always be someone complaining about something, and if there isn't anything to complain about, They will complain that there is nothing to complain about LOL!!!.

 One more thing; there are alternatives. Have You tried any? See if they fare any better (some are free so it won't even cost a dime to try). Then post a comment on how they compare to Vista for all of Your "everyday" tasks.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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ghot

1. You MUST have a special Vista

2. Noone sane uses SP3

3. W/o all my startup programs i can boot in 17secs

4. "Kepping ppl on thier toes" (as in an OS) is the single stupidest thing I've heard in 30 years!

5. I get these boot times on an AMD 5000+ Black Ed. Proc....NOT a $1000 Intel

6. Im truly sorry you got brainwashed by the hype, maybe as you age you'll wise up. 

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GreenTurtle

1. My Vista runs fine

2. Enjoy the Malware do We?

3. As long as boot time is under a minute does it really matter anymore?

4. Apple does like to switch it up on their users ( at a substantial cost )

5. Not even going to comment on the AMD...Nuff said

6. Not sure Who has been brainwashed here; but I have been around long enough to see that progress is the way of life, No matter how hard some may try to hold onto pieces of the past.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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ghot

All I'm saying is why build gimmicks into an OS that arent needed, DO hog resources and aren't intuitive? It makes no sense. Im not an MS hater...I'm a useless crap hater......I don't care WHO makes it. Vista SHOULD have been XP with DX10 and a functional UAC with Vistas more secure kernel......not the fat colorful pig-thing it turned out to be. Windows 7 looks to be just more of the same to me at least...even IF MS has to add all the gimmicky crap to sell its OS...do as ironsmyth777 says: make it an OPTION....I'm really tired of MS trying to FORCE their ideas of what I want down MY throat.....I know what I like you know what you like MS makes the mistake of assuming THEY know what everyone likes. That is what makes me mad. Sure you can turn the UAC off and not have its protection or leave it on and be driven crazy.....thats the problem, no in between.

MS needs to start writing OS with all options OFF by default....and let the consumer choose what he/she wants to employ....they need to give other or more than off or on choices too....aka the UAC in Vista...that was just stupid! I just hope they learned their lesson with VISTA and build Windows 7 with the ability to be self tuned/tweaked to any users desires.

If user A has a slow comp...give him the option to turn off all the bells and whistles and NOT hobble the OS when he does. I still use IE6.......why? because I dont HAVE to hit alt to see the file button to export favorites or w/e.....its just there at the top easy to find. I still use Firefox 2.0.0.16 for the same reason...I dont WANT to spend 20 minutes trying to sort through all the toolbar crap they added to FF3....its NOT necessary...its NOT needed (by me). It should be an option, and that option should be under an (dare i say it) Options button....NOT some silly icon that has to first be de-ciphered and then learned...when an Options button is immediately obvious as to what it means and what it does.

Crimson...how would you feel if you went to buy a car and they said you have to buy a blue car ...period?

This is, in effect what MS is doing...its not right, its not sensible, its not NICE!

As I said before if they DON'T get their act together Linux is gonna wipe the floor with them.

I HAVE a fast machine I CAN run VISTA with all the bells and whistles...I CHOOSE not to, for the reasons I stated above...and below. I see NO benefit from Vista....when Windows 7 rolls out I'll give it a try too....but if it follows in Vistas footsteps I'll probably shelve it too.

What the world needs is a lean mean OS that has OPTIONS .....NOT DIRECTIVES! By options I DON'T mean 6-7 diferent versions as I can only assume was MS's idea of options.

I run a cleaned up, stripped down Windows XP pro w/SP2 I can shut down in 6 seconds .....I can boot in under 30 seconds....VISTA ......can't touch that! Big OOOPS right there. Maybe some people LIKE to have time to make a sandwich while their OS boots...not me....

If YOU want to spend $400 for an OS that beats your hardware senseless, runs slower, and affords no REAL benefits....fine with me...go right ahead.....meanwhile, Ill get twice the work done for a 1/4th the cost :)

 

 

 

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StormEffect

Run linux. Poof, look, all your problems went away! 

Vista SP1 runs a pretty tight ship compared to XP SP3. Installed apps are generally the difference between a slow machine and a fast one. My Vista Ultimate install has all the bells and whistles active, starts from power to fully functional and instapop start menu in 23 seconds, and gets me a statistically identical FPS in Crysis as XP.

So what is your issue? It has mostly to do with the interface and how you don't want them to change it. 

Again, linux. You can customize it all you want and you'll get every little inch of performance back from your hardware. Vista's "bells and whistles" have a statistically negligible impact on performance compared to the same in XP. I suppose it has mostly to do with how things "feel." 

Sticking with FF2 seems like a decent idea, but IE6 is just dangerous.  

My opinion (only giving it because this is the Internetz) is to just stick with XP for as many years as it is supported and runs your apps. You may have gotten to the point where any extra "fluff" or alteration is going to piss you off. Windows did a bad thing letting you get so comfortable, unlike Apple who keeps their users on their toes.

Whatever, free world, your life, your static OS.

(linux) 

 

 

 

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ironsmyth777

Enthusiast or Minimalist? I'm both. Get rid of the unneeded features or give me the option to never turn them on during installation (Even better!). And don't call it outdated if the only reason it needs upgraded is because new software (that does the same thing) won't run because it's wrote not to (think old but great games!). This was the whole point to begin with. Sorry I couldn't do it in a shorter space. If I have offended anyone (Crimson) I apploigize. I just think there has to be a better option than what we have now.

When you see Maximum PC think Maximize Your PC!

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GreenTurtle

 That is a good idea for initial install. I think You can turn off a fair bit of stuff after as it is though.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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ironsmyth777

You're a gamer. That's great!! I am too. Maximum PC exist to maximize PC potential and they do a wonderful job of that. Do they get caught up in the newest and greatest. Yes. (ie Hellsgate) Do they get over it. Usually. (Vista) I'm not putting down having the latest and greatest. My gripe starts when software I want or need is outdated because a company decides it is. XP's days are numbered by MS. So I have to "upgrade" to a machine that will run Vista and all it's bling. Why? Direct X 10. Am I a gamer? Yes. Just not like the top 5-10% that want the super detail and frame rates for their FPS. Am I being critical of them? No. I am simply saying that the MASS majority (90% +) are going to have to  upgrade hardware to run new software that does the same thing that what they have does only prettier... until MS decides not to support it anymore. (BTW beauty is in the eye of the beholder- Vista, yuck...) Then you get no updates. You get new software that won't run on a machine that 2 years ago (and in most cases a $1000 ago) was the best that 90% of consumers could afford and it was more than enough to do the job. Do I see your place... certainly! You help push the envelope but in the long run, for that other 90%, you're a "consumer" beta tester. Hardware companies don't know what will catch on. They love to flaunt the next great thing and most of the time it fails to catch on or gets axed... (VooDoo anyone?) That means outdated drivers, no support,etc. Even Maximum PC falls into this. Most (not all) great new hardware is a tiny upgrade in performance. Direct X 9 vs. 10? Was it worth it? To you, yes. To me, I have to build a new machine to handle something I will rarely (if ever) use but I will have what MS says I have to have in order to take work home with me (also required BTW). I did the same between 98SE and XP. I have great games (with pretty good graphics too!) that won't play in XP. Now it happens with Vista. I say that to say you're in the same boat with me. Linux will run both OS games already and are starting on Vista. What's MS problem? The widgets are eating use alive (Mandriva 2009 take note!) and all the cutesy things are great but... in the end they eat us up. Options are the answer. Have the OS match the hardware as it installs. Will certain things not look as good? Maybe... but it will run and do it well. (Again look to the Linux machines) If you want all the features, upgrade! If not, Word will run just as well as ever. Oh and I still agree about the little idiot icons. They make no sense on a good day.

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ironsmyth777

Well you need to just !!!!!..... Just Kidding! You brought up something I do want to address however. I don't mean to be picking on MS. They are the most obvious OS. My love for Mandriva 2008 may not carry over to Mandriva 2009 because of the attempt to copy Vista... can they do it? Yet to be seen, Mandriva 2009 is not impressive yet. The point is on my ancient (by today's standards) machine, I multiboot and some things run way better than others. 98SE screams, XP Pro (modified and stripped) runs real well, Mandriva 2008 will out do the XP install, Vista I use at work (so don't assume people have no experience) and it drags... bad.... Now granted this is a machine I can't (they won't let me!) strip to improve performance but it ran ok (not great) with a full install of XP Pro. I guess I say all of this to say that Vista has very little usable new functionality as compared to (oh gesh here I go pissin off everybody) 98SE, but the requirements for it are huge in comparison.Why? The only reasons I can see are the whizz bang graphic "features" and added out of the box security (but at the price of pop-ups that most people ignore anyway!). There has to be a better way. I will just take someone (there, I didn't blame MS) stepping up to the plate and doing it. I still say that for day to day task most (not all or I'll dig up my beloved Tandy!) machines should not need an upgrade to run new APPs or OS.

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GreenTurtle

 If that was the case; why are We not still using 16 megs of ram? I'm pretty sure that advancement comes from necessity.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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CrimsonKnight13

Simply put, you have a very old PC. Why would you use Vista anyways? If your usage of your system doesn't go beyond what you're satisfied with, why are you complaining about an OS you won't touch? If you're going to get a new PC, do it for different reasons. As a gamer, I've used DX10 & see the graphical beauty of it. I upgrade hardware because I love gaming & trying out new hardware. That is why I've read Maximum PC for years. Older OSes are good for what they did but what I want to utilize now is way different than the feature sets that were given years ago. Today's PC utilize last-gen & current-gen OSes. 98SE will fly on any system since it's requirements to utilize its feature set isn't as demanding or oriented for today's computing.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Libera te ex infernis!

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ironsmyth777

on most points. The little popup words always amuse me (and by amuse I mean annoy the crap out of) because it's a complete waste of my time to try to figure out what the goofy little picture means as well as wondering just how much extra code is slowing things down. I love Linux but yes I agree wtf the crazy names. I can understand using them during development but damn people these names lead me to google what app name I'm looking for before I even start. (Even with that gripe, kudos to Mandriva 2008.) And again I agree with the what the hell flippy turny twisty windows comments! There's no way to keep anything straight (pun intended) when things look like this! I instantly feel in love with the fast dial add-on for Firefox for this very reason. I know it's not the same but the point is that this functionality could be transferred to a desktop. Anyway MS (and Linux if they aren't careful) need to get their head out of their hind parts and start working on usable functions instead of trying to wow everyone with gimmicks. Hardware will run better longer, and the hardware guys need to consider that this is not a bad thing. I'm more inclined to upgrade if I KNOW I will see a gain. As is I find alternatives to most things (Windows included) in order to run what I have knowing that a machine upgrade and then switching to Vista is actually a step back in performance for me. It will cost me at least a thousand dollars for a new machine (after the Vista purchase) to run worse than I do now. Just a thought hardware guys... go talk to Microsoft about those stupid little pictures and how all that crap adds up to me not upgrading to your new hardware.

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CrimsonKnight13

How exactly does mere graphic files stop you from upgrading hardware? Why should the OS stop you from going with what you want? Power systems usually overcome whatever OS is running them in terms of slowdown. My own enthusiast system runs Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 like a beast & runs games extremely well. There's a lot of FUD going on whenever there's news on MS. People must be borrowing from Slashdot's userbase that's full of contempt for anything that is even remotely close to anything Windows & Microsoft. I'm not a fanboy but I do tire of seeing posts that don't go very far in explaining why conclusions have been met. This is Max PC afterall & despite the editors own claim of hate (& slow growing love) for Vista, I don't see how people can't overcome their prejudices for an OS that they've either used very little, not all, or just preach crap to undermine anything they don't understan. Let's start over & try looking at ALL OSes as having issues that need improvement. Not just one to be the scapegoat.

 

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Libera te ex infernis!

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wk

Totally agree with "ghot" hoping someone is listening.

MPC is my home page

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ghot

Maybe I'm old fashioned...maybe its because i can read, I don't know. Its started with the 1st japanese cars back in the 80's and hasn't let up since....wtf would ANYONE want a ribbon bar...when simple english is so much easier to deal with and so much less of a system resource hog?

Who thought up little pictures for tasks that a program could perform, and why? Let's be brutally honest here....how many PC users actually "leave" the non classic view running on their comps? Noone I know, at least noone that knows anything about computers. Sure a picture (icon) paints a 1000 words...but the roomfor mis-interpretation is astounding.

You buy a new car today and have to decipher the dashboard. Was the word VENT that hard to comprehend, why do I need a little picture of a square with wavy lines coming out when the word VENT says it all? Why do I need a ribbon bar with 50-60 tiny icons that could much more easily be built around words we already know and use on a daily basis. Is there something "wrong" with the words: File, Edit, Options, Tools etc? I look at the screenshots of the Windows 7 ribbon bar and want to strangle the person that thought it up. Yes I killed the puppy in Windows XP the very first thing. Yes I threw out PSP 9 and reinstalled PSP 7....why....simple PSP 9 shows only thumbnails....which ARE handy if you're memory is disfunctional I guess.

Why I save a picture I give it a file name, when I want to find the picture I naturally look for the filename I saved it under. The GUI was a good thing....in moderation....Microsoft...stop taking drugs and design an efficient lean OS with a (dare I say it) Windows 98 SE interface. The only "usefull" improvement I could see over that interface would be to make a "third" window size option in the upper right corner.....aka full screen, normal size, and maybe eigth size for multitaskers. We don't NEED revolving, transparent, spinning, twisting, shuffling, stacking etc windows...thats just plain stupid. Whats Windows 8 going to have a "Spore" GUI?

For god's ake when is the clipboard going to be able to hold more than one item, without additional software...that seems to me at least like a VERY usefull improvement.

While I'm on this rant....why touch screens...does Microsoft own Windex? Sure their great on a 4x3 inch screen...but why would anyone want to employ touch screens on a 24-50 inch screen? What.... they miss the smell of ammonia and crumpled newspaper?

Linux has the right answer, however they seem to be shackled (for some reason) into using words that dont mean anything...maybe Microsoft owns the words File, Edit, Tools, Options, Explorer....wtf is usr...or any of the other micro words Linux uses...can I buy a vowel? Why Aptget and not APP Get? Did someone pass a law that I missed that says..if its clear and simple to understand...its illegal?

Why does every new OS from Microsoft have to look like a coffee table magazine thats 75% pictures and 25% information? I LIKE tabs and buttons with lables on them..they are intuitive, impossible to misinterperate. I look at the screenshots above and think "oh god" now I have to learn TWO things where I should only have to learn one. First I have to decipher whatever the current programmers "decided" were intuitive icons and then remember that they really mean circle, square, triangle etc.

Microsoft needs a real people dept. to sift through all this "new" crap and say: "No I think Save is easier to understand than a little icon that may or may not look like a ...what...safe? Look at MY Start menu.....

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4028/image1gc1.jpg

 

...and be honest....has microsoft come out with anything thats truly easier to use? Answer: not yet :/

Which is simpler the word Paste or this retarded tiny icon at the top of this coment box? I could MAYBE understand it if it LOOKED like a paste bottle and brush....but how does (what I assume) is a little yellow clipboard with a bent peice of paper partially occluding it....mean.....paste?

Well thats my take on the NEW Microsoft...I'm sure 1000's of illiterate morons will disagree...but so what?

Note to MS: You best get your act together or Linux is gonna wipe the floor with you ^^

 

P.S. Even MS know all these icons and ribbon bars are retarded...why else would they need popup WORD descriptions of the icons   lolololol    Words ....work...get a clue!!! 

 

 

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GreenTurtle

 Your link doesn't work; try again.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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CrimsonKnight13

No one needs to be illiterate to see that your own grammar is horrid. All I see is a boatload of bias about a corporation & OS you obviously hate. I'm glad that MS is making changes & listening to people. They know that they need to change things or lose a whole market of enthusiasts, power users, & gamers. I've been using Vista since its release & think its way better than XP. Now that MS is showing improvements in 7, I'm prepared for a better experience overall. You're own opinion has its weight but don't go swinging it around like you're a eruditic lord of operating systems. As far as I can tell, you don't seem to grasp the strengths & weaknesses of Windows or Linux. Each serve a purpose & hold their own at the capacity they serve people with. Thanks, but I'll keep a positive outlook on what I have in the present & what the future holds.

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Libera te ex infernis!

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neo1piv14

I'm not the biggest Vista fan boy out there, and I've done my fair share of trashtalking, but even I'm starting to see some merit in the OS. I was absolutely horrified with it pre-SP1, but let's face it, nothing's ever done right on the first take. As big as beta test is, they can't possibly test everything. The beauty of computers is that you can go back and revise something to make it better. MS, your product slows my computer down more than your previous products, but that doesn't make it the worst thing ever. And I'll gladly trade a little extra slow down for DX10

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GreenTurtle

 Try installing it; then You can make an experienced and informed comment.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

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Digital-Storm

Windows Vista Automatically turns down the graphic levels when a Games for Windows game loads. It is not microsofts problem that 99% of game developer's do not take into consideration the benefits of Games for Windows.

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MrNaPaLm32

You really don't know what you're saying, do you...
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avanish11

Sweet. I love the ribbon interface. Hopefully windows 7 lives up to all of its hype.

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knexkid

I wish I could just take XP with me forever........sigh.

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CTskifreak

They should offer a crappp load of money to the Paint.net guys, give them jobs, and have it as the default.

It could have two modes, basic with the new ribbon, and advanced, with the options that it has now. 

Just an idea.

 

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MrNaPaLm32

Finally paint gets a retrofit. Now all the people that don't have photoshop might be able to get some stuff done.

 Hopefully microsoft is working more with hardware vendors to make sure that there are compatible drivers by the time the OS comes out.

Looks promising, I just hope the UI looks different from Vista.

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marudd2002

I think I just realized what the next version of Windows is going to be called when released to the public (although I like the "7" name). "Next". That's right, even the Gates/Seinfeld commericals hint at it.

 

WINDOWS NEXT

 

The better more lean version of Vista and what Vista was supposed to be since 2002~ish :) :P

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Fanboys are annoying. Price/Performance is top priority. Patience=Awesome.

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