Whose Kindle Is It Anyway?
Posted 07/17/09 at 07:02:13 PM by Pulkit Chandna
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How much of every Kindle does Amazon own after it is sold? You may be a bit confounded by this question. But every Kindle owner, who downloaded either of George Orwell’s famous books Nineteen Eighty-four or Animal Farm, or both, must have that question on their mind. Amazon left Orwell-doting Kindle owners nonplussed after it remotely deleted the above-mentioned novels from their Kindles.
Although it has sent them a refund, such overbearing behavior on its part can not be brooked. Amazon is said to have acted at the publisher’s behest. Amazon labeled it a “rare” occurrence. The entire episode feels like a harbinger of worse things to follow to this author. Will digital distribution and cloud computing leave us with only nominal ownership rights in the future?
Update: As the Wall Street Journal reports, "The issue, says Amazon spokesman Drew Herdener, is that the Orwell books had been added to the company’s catalog using a self-service platform by a third party that did not actually have rights to sell the books. “When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers’ devices, and refunded customers,” he said."
Amazon's puchasing system automatically removed the books from Kindles after the company realized that they were selling illegal copies of the book. In the future, though, Amazon has vowed to change its system to prevent the automatic removal of content from customers' Kindles. This still begs the question of why Amazon had a system to retract purchased content in the first place.
Oldest Kindle Owner in the world!
Submitted by aprice88 on Sun, 08/09/2009 - 2:25pm
http://www.widwi.com/widwi.php?item=40&Perhaps+the+oldest+Kindle+2+owner+in+the+world
Big Brother is reading over your shoulder.
Submitted by BinaryMonkey on Sun, 07/19/2009 - 1:41am
Yet another reason why I prefer the Sony E-Book reader.
It has the ability to view documents, pictures and books in a
non-proprietary format; is easily expanded space-wise with an SD card
and it can't be remotely monitored or mucked about with through a
wireless connection.
Submitted by UltraTron on Sun, 07/19/2009 - 7:42am
We can concede that the customers were not supposed to have been able to purchase these books.
What I find abhorrent is the fact that these books were deleted from the customer's Kindles with no notification.
The customer was not at fault. Amazon should have paid a royalty to the publisher and allowed the customer to keep these books.
What's next? You legally buy a book and then Amazon changes certain passages or deletes the book because it has controversial content?
This story isn't just dripping in irony. It's a Niagara Falls torrent of irony here. So much so it could almost be a publicity stunt shortly on the heels of a price cut.
Either way it is sickening. I wonder what Mr. Bradbury thinks of this. I remember reading a comment he made in Fahrenheit 451 about how people send him letters. One woman actually had the audacity to suggest he rewrite Martian Chronicles with more women in it. Is that what may happen in a digital future? A classic long out of print will be available digitally and the powers that be decide to alter parts of it that fits in more nicely with the favoured narrow band of thought we will be living in.I can see it now.. Winston will be a black male. The party will be a white racist entity, hence their fierce opposition to Winstons and Julias love for each other. Hell, they can even throw in a comment that the reason his Victory cigarettes are terrible because only the whites in the inner party get the good stuff. This can apply to Animal Farm too. All they have to do is have an introduction from some "literary professor" who says that the pigs represent the Democrats and the farmers Republicans (or the other way round, depending on what the future PC brigade decide works best). A little change here and there and the pigs could have indeed made a wonderful change for the "oppressed" livestock.
I was going to but I will not now or ever buy a Kindle.
Hopefully the day will never come where I will to have to sit in an alcove to read or write something that some might disagree with.
In closing, I'd like to say that I still have the freedom to say that 2+2=5. Let's hope that will never change.
Submitted by VaMage on Sat, 07/18/2009 - 8:23am
I find it ironic that the "first books burned" by Amazon would be
these two, only Fahrenheit 451 could have been more poignant. The
legality and rights of the copyright holders are a completly seperate
issue from the fact that anyone CAN destroy "books" at anytime they
choose.Imagine a world in the far flung future where all
content was only on the Net. The unabridged ability to control
information flow, distort data and rewrite history would have made Papa
Joe and Mr. Mao happier then a newborn in a topless bar, whie I can
almost feel Kurt Vonnegut, George Orwel and Aldous Huxley spinning in
their graves.Everytime something like this happens the majority
of people will say it's no big deal, that anyone who sees it as a
problem is a reactionary, or the ever popular over reacting. It is as
if these people have an almost religious trust in the good intentions
of business, government, or the media. Sadly, history suggests they are
wrong, that the decline of liberty almost always comes with a wimper
rather that a bang. In fact, these points are the central themes of the
very books that were just deleted!VaMage
American by Birth, But Southern by the Grace of God.
P.S. In the interest of fairness I will admit that I am a bibliophile. I consider filled bookcases to be the haute couture of interior decorating, my daughter describes her childhood as "growing up in a library", and her first boyfriend exclaimed, when she showed him my home office, "WOW, this place looks like the software store!". He had a lot of fun finding the oldest game there, all still in the original packaging of course, my daughter on the other hand was not pleased!
Submitted by Fragulator on Sat, 07/18/2009 - 7:40am
Oh they irony. For the books to be deleted to be Orwell's, and for one of them to be 1984 of all titles is the epitome of irony. What an Orwellian world we live in today.
Interesting
Submitted by winmaster on Sat, 07/18/2009 - 6:56am
I think that this is quite interesting, that Amazon programed Kindle with the ability to remotely delete books. First of all, I don't think that this is a big deal. Sure, Amazon screwed up, and something need to be changed to ensure that it never happens again, but the fact that they can remotely delete books can be a good thing. I don't have a Kindle because I simply don't want to pay for books. I'd much rather go to the library, pick up a copy for free, read it in a week, and return it in time for it to remain free. I had given up on something like this happening with the Kindle, but now that I know that they have this power, I truly hope that they take full advantage of it. Think about it. If they set up a digital library service, where you could download a book and be able to read it for a week for free, I'd jump in line the next day to buy a Kindle. I can think of nothing I'd like more to come from the Kindle. So, to all of you who are upset about this: They gave you a refund and its over, so quit your bitching and hope that something good can come out of this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
Submitted by tehR0XX0Rz on Sat, 07/18/2009 - 5:50am
If you buy a real book, Amazon will not break into your house to steal it back.
I rank Kindle right up there with Slinky toys and Pet Rocks.
Submitted by fullur on Sat, 07/18/2009 - 12:05am
Is the ability of Amazon to delete user content documented anywhere a consumer could see it before they buy a Kindle? If not there should be a class action lawsuit. If so, this is a prime example of why you should read every word of every contract you sign or otherwise agree to, and vote with your wallet.
Submitted by MeTo on Sat, 07/18/2009 - 5:54am
If you have ever read a EULA or a TOS or the DRM im sure there bases are covered. If i owned the copyright i would go after them (Amazon) for selling them and use the millenium copyright act.
Submitted by Mighty BOB! on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 10:44pm
This is absolutely unacceptable. There should be a class-action lawsuit immediately. They should NEVER have the right or the capability to remotely delete purchased goods EVER, regardless of if it was illegally sold in the first place.
Never planned to buy a
Submitted by Jox on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 9:08pm
Never planned to buy a kindle before. Even less likely to happen now.
-Jox
Submitted by mesiah on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 8:39pm
There is a reason Amazon included the ability to remotely remove books from kindle devices. It was something I had been wondering about until today and am glad to see. Those of us who do alot of reading don't necessarily buy alot of books. But the library is like a paradise to us. They have just about any title we can think of, and we don't have to pay $20-$30 just to read them once. The ability for remote wipes was obviously put in place to prepare for the future when amazon can offer a rental service. Alot of people scoff at paying $10 for a book. But I know plenty of people who wouldn't hesitate to pay $15 a month to download and read as many books as they want. Or even 99 cents to download a book that expires in 1 month. In order to implement a service like this amazon needs to have a way to manage rented material on your kindle. If you cancel your membership, your rented books go bye bye. If you can only have 5 books out at a time, then to download a 6th amazon has to be able to verify that one of the 5 you currently have is being removed.
My guess is, when amazon heard about their copyright infringement they freaked out. Then someone said "hey, can we use the rental code to remove the books? then we wont get the pants sued off of us." It was a bad judgement call, but most likely not something amazon ever intended using this programming for. Should kindle owners be upset that they paid for something and had it taken from them, ya probably. Should we freak about amazon having the ability to delete our content, no I don't think so. As long as it isn't abused the way it was this week, otherwise it lays the groundwork for an awsome rental service and possibly sways me to buy a kindle once that service is put in place.
Submitted by MeTo on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 8:06pm
Amazon should get sued and fined $250,000 for every copy they pirated. Look what happend to the woman for 22 songs.
Submitted by grayscare0 on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 8:34pm
This. Except it should be more like $750,000 because Amazon was selling them.
Submitted by SuperiorBeing on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 7:05pm
I find it horrible that they took such action without owner consent, but the fact that the book was 1984 made it hilariously ironic.
Submitted by lhatten on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 6:01pm
OK, before everyone goes off the deep end, (I know I did at first), a little fact check. It seems that Amazon did not have the right to sell these novels at 0.99. Quoting from a news story by Nate Mook, and Time Conneally @ beatnews.com, “The two books in question were published for the Kindle by a company called Mobile Reference, which offers public domain books for around $1. Mobile Reference did not have the right to sell Orwell's novels because 1984 and Animal Farm are still under copyright protection in the United States. They were not legitimate or "perfectly legal" copies of the books, but rather illicit copies that should not have been sold in the first place.” So they were basically selling pirated works. Now this is where Mr. Mook & Conneally and I part ways. Amazon should be hammered, and hammered hard for their reaction to this news. The message they sent out was: "We recently discovered a problem with a Kindle book that you have purchased. We have processed a refund to the payment method used to acquire this book. The next time the wireless is activated on your device, the problematic item will be removed. If you are not in a wireless coverage area, please connect your device to a computer using your USB cable and delete the file from the documents folder." Nowhere in their statement do they pop to the fact that they had screwed up big time, and that they would make it right, maybe by offering a legal copy of the book at reduced or no extra charge. Remember this is their problem, not the people that bought the book. Number 2, they should NEVER – EVER remove a book without the owner’s consent - EVER!! The fact that they did it with 1984 was the height of Irony. So until Amazon swears on a stack of religious texts that they will never ever do this again, and formalizes it in their license agreement , I would not buy a Kindle.
Submitted by bcweir on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 6:23pm
That Amazon can REMOTELY DELETE content off your Kindles!
Look at what happened when Apple discovered someone posted the Shaken Baby app on their App store. Apple removed the offensive application from the App store. Apple did NOT pre-emptively reach across all those iphones and delete the app from customers' iphones.
Not going to buy a Kindle. EVER. Forget that creepiness. I wonder if there's a way to jailbreak Kindles.
Submitted by grayscare0 on Fri, 07/17/2009 - 5:15pm
"Will digital distribution and cloud computing leave us with only nominal ownership rights in the future?"
I'd say the answer to that question is rather obvious. Both digital distribution and cloud computing exchange ownership rights for convenience. Digital distribution skips physical mediums and restricts the consumers' rights upon which they are able to use the content for the sake of anti-piracy. By not owning the medium and being further limited in use by such requirements as must have an internet connection, can't sell/give away the conten, etc; ownership rights are being neglected.
Cloud computing is even more extreme--the providers of cloud computing hold the data and/or application on a remote server. The providers often have the right to use data they've acquired from consumers in any way they see fit--it's no longer yours once it's in the cloud. Needless to say, consumers are losing ownership rights at a steady pace that is not likely to be halted anytime soon.
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