Vista PCs Being Downgraded at Sinister Gait



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For less I still prefer XP Pro.  My son had me remove Vista and go back to XP Pro on both of his systems.

The best windows experience I have ever had on a non server platform is in Windows Vista X64.  I use three different boxes with 8GB, 12GB and 16GB, and they are great. 

I have used Vista 32 bit on some notebooks and such and all seem to be back on XP Pro again.

It seems as if Vista should have been 64 bit only so it would be installed on high end systems that can run it and leave XP Pro 32 bit for everything else.  

I can't see XP Pro going away even in the next few years it is a very good OS.



Vista = Windows ME ...just 5-7 years later.....every other OS from Microsoft is a piece of cr*p.  It all about bottom line.  People who fell for the hype arent going to NOW say Vista sux....

 IF Vista was so great MS wouldn't have HAD to tie DX10 and certain games to it to sell would have sold itself.  Even MS knows its just the latest Windows ME....

Look at MS's OS history.....

3.1 good OS

95 bad OS

95 OS1 or w/e good OS

98 bad OS

98SE good OS

ME   horrible OS

XP great OS

Vista....fill in the blank

Windows 7 SHOULD be good OS...but ya never know

No matter what MS says...they are a business and their highest priority is their bottom line....period!

 Sure lotta people got infected on XP...but a lotta people are idiots 7 years I havent had one infection that lasted more than about a millisecond, before one of my security apps nabbed it.

 What I don't understand is why OS manufacturers always try to decide whats best for us...there should be a law prhibiting OS manufactures from making decisions about what's best for the consumer....for example...since when did pics and thumbnails become easier to understand than  plain old text?   Further I don't WANT everything on my system irrevocablly shared, bound together, hooked into everything.  It doesnt make sense.  You DO manage to get an 500 times harder to remove.  Maybe I'm old school but I like to CONTROL my OS...I don't want or need help with that.  I don't WANT web this and that infused with every app on my system....the web is where the cooties are.....always ON internet connection...idiotic...

I don't know about anyone else but I can read a XP classic start menu faster than any1 can deal with the Vista start menu.....maybe because I learned to READ aint just OS's either...its a world wide a new car....which is simpler...little icons or heat/cold/vent...I don't like the o and 1 for on/off...on /off is self exlapnatory....I constantly have to "remember" which is on or off with the 0/1 system.

I think it time to get back to basics....write and OS with evrything OFF and allow the customer to CHOOSE which services he/she wants running....system restore is a joke....any decent hacker will infest the system volume information folder first.....what we need is a basic OS with unlimited options (OFF by default).....

Last but NOT least....who the hell thought up.....MS's KB iformation....its all but indecipherable....and making all devices in your house sync to one another is simply retarded...its been proven 1000 times over that component devies perform better.  

...and when will the stards industry decide on one format for audio and video....its simply ridiculous....pick a format and stick to it....we don't NEED 57 diferent players/codecs and porpritory formats....just one )that works will do...same with image files....pick a standard and stick with would you like it if the same reasoning was applied to cras (for example.....) car A  runs on this fuel, car B runs on another insane.We needs to get back to our audio video format etc....when you buy a car it comes in a basic version and options are.....welll optional....OS's shud be the same way.


In short....dont make my OS's options pre proscribed....let ME choose....if I want to tie my ausio, video, cell phone all together ...make it an option....not the default.  Evvry OS I've had the pleasure of using....assumes I'm a neo tech, all in one, user....I'm NOT!  When I build a computer I buld it for a purpose...Every OS released has to be beat into I don't WANT outlook express...I want webmail......once the eamils are ONTO my system (aka outlook  express) those sel same emails are already 1/2 way INTO my system.....DUMB......Windows messenger...a joke....can you say....paint a target on  my comp and lable me idiot?

 Well  thats my 4 cents.....hopefully users and OS maufacturers will one day see the light.

 Honestly how many (do everything hardware store tools...are worth a cr*p.....?)

Anyways I'm tired now and tired of trying to point out that seperated componet devices are far superior to multi funtion devices......WAIT lemme get my hammer/pliers/toothpick tool and  try to do any related tasks as well as a plain hammer, plains pliers, plain toothpick will do the job.


Get a clue "indutry" develope a standard and stick to it......I DARE anyone to find a 500$ comp speaker system that will beat a dedicated stereo sytem.


NUFF said......


Disgusted, dissallusioned and plain old pissed off.  Get a clue people! 









I think it's a little telling that Intel hasn't made the switch to Vista. I haven't either.

If nothing else, it's a goofy name for an OS.



I am a hardcore pc gamer.  And I upgraded to vista on my gaming rig 16 months ago.  I think it is far superior to Windows XP.  What nobody realizes is that Vista is for The latest greatest of Hardware.  If you have a 2+ year old rig, stick with XP.  I run a QX6850 at 3.33Ghz with 4 gigs of ram and  8800GTX's in SLI.  Vista helps this puppy sing.  Also I have never had an XP box stay up longer than six months without some sort of issue.  Now granted I am constantly tweaking and adding new things.  But Vista has been running for the past 10 months without a hiccup. 



I've stuck with XP Pro for two main reasons:

1) I don't have any problems with XP and all my systems run fine, and
2) Almost every review out there about Vista has warned me to stay away from it.

Maximum PC has been one of Vista's most vocal critics, right from the beginning and consistently since. Hey, they even dinged the HP Blackbird 002 in their magazine review of it for the specific reason that it came with Vista instead of XP. I remember thinking at the time that it was silly to knock points off the Blackbird for using Vista since it came loaded with the latest DX10 hardware. (How are you going to show off DX10 with XP?) But then again, I've long been used to Maximum PC dinging products for occasionally ridiculous reasons. (Which is why I don't pay attention to the number score, just the text.) But it was also yet another in a long and thorough series of reminders from Maximum PC that Vista is just so terrible that yes, its presence is a good enough reason to take points off an otherwise fine product. Frankly, I've heard such an unwavering torrent of withering Vista criticism from almost all sources since the moment it was released that, after awhile, I stopped giving it much thought -- of course Vista sucks, doesn't everybody know that?
But reading these comments (and others recently) gives me hope that Vista may not be the horrible P.O.S. that we've been assured it is. Not that I am eager to run out and spend what money I've got on a new Windows license mind you -- XP hasn't given me any reason to ditch it as yet. But it is very encouraging to think that the future of Windows may not be as bleak as I've thought. Or as I've been led to believe? Or that I've been foolish enough to believe?

Anyway, thanks to the commenters using Vista for cheering me up today! That was unexpected.


Keith E. Whisman

I sold a laptop to a friend that did'nt have a computer. He insisted that I remove Vista and install XP pro. I asked him why he did'nt like Vista, had he used it? He said he just did'nt like it but had never even seen it. I called him a dumbass. Now he complains that the laptop over heats because the laptop maker interweaved it's cooling system with Vista's power scheme. It won't work with XP. Now he complains that the laptop shuts down for no reason. I just tell him that he's the one that wanted XP.

XP is the broken os. It's always been a broken os with holes in every part of the operating system. Every square inch of XP has been exploited by hackers. Every time ms fixes an exploit another exploit opens up. It seems to me that downgrading to XP is completely stupid. At least Vista is alot more secure. Alot less open to exploits.

If you downgrade to XP then your a dumb ass.



your friend must be cursing himself: "what possessed me that fine day?" As far as Vista being a lot secure: probably even hackers have despised on a frivolous note. Anyways Vista is a victim of its image and a terrible first impression as far I see it. But obviously people hold different view about Vista. To each one his own. Cheers and Peace


Brian Oravetz

I removed Vista from my home computer and my work laptop. It was a dog, and always in need of tender loving care. Of course, MS forces you to pay the price by making it hard to secure the drivers you need to get your machine back in working order. All in all however, it was worth it to go back to XP.



Vista is great, i've used it since it came out, and i loved it. It was a nightmare on my 2005 XP MCE2005 PC, but it is as smooth as silk on my notebook and self-built pc. If you have good hardware that is fast and supported by vista, you'll be ok. As for compatibility, all new programs will be supported by vista (except maybe a few). The only people who will have compatibility issues are businesses and home users with older hardware (like printers, raid controllers, etc.). Businesses should stick with XP, but home users should get vista on new pc's. But, if your old pc is running great on XP, don't upgrade, there is no compelling reason to. 

Here is what you need to "enjoy" vista (IMO):

  • 2gb RAM (go for 4GB w/ 64bit)
  • 100GB Hard Drive (more is better) 
  • 1.5ghz dual core cpu (core 2 duo t5250, for example)
  • 64MB dedicated video card or 256mb shared video ram (128MB discrete recommended for aero).
  • If you have shared video ram, i recommend you use 3GB of ram, so you can still get 2 full gigs to use in vista

The memory management in vista is great, and it uses free memory for good use. If you need some of the memory used by vista, it will free it as you need it (such as when you play games).

 You can get by with 512mb ram/40gb hdd/1ghz cpu single core/integrated vram, but your expreience won't be great. Vista is a hungry OS, and it works well when you feed it. Vista Home Premium x86 FTW!!



I have yet to get a blue screen of death on vista, and I've had it for almost a year.

N0t a n00b


Keith E. Whisman

I did get blue screens while over clocking but I can't blame Vista for that. That's just pushing the hardware to much.



I've seen and used my share of XP and Vista machines, 32 bit and 64 bit. Overall I'd have to say that unless I have a newer computer that can handle the Vista OS, performance is severely hindered. If you build the machine to handle the OS or at least upgrade it, then Vista will (in most cases) work properly. But that is the whole problem! I have to upgrade or purchase new equipment for Vista to work properly. Even if you purchase new, you better get 4 Gig of RAM or more and the fastest Dual Core you can afford if you want your system to perform like XP. I’m not judging Vista based on what I hear. As a Corp Architect and Administrator, it’s just not working up to the speed and stability of XP yet, even with SP1.



I used Vista for a few months--even after SP1 was released. I saw a LOT of blue screens and I didn't have anything else on my computer that I know of that would have caused it. I wound up finally downgrading to XP Pro and love it just like I loved XP for all those years. Didn't take me long to find out what a bust Vista actually was. What a waste of money! I won't upgrade again until the next version of Windows. Sure, it had fancy graphics, but the BSOD's that I saw were one of the reasons I did it. Besides that, I had a couple of pieces of hardware that I liked that wouldn't run under Vista--or worked in a 'reduced' manner.



Your hardware not working properly w/Vista is most likely the hardware manufacturer's drivers not working/being written corectly. Still, NOT Vistas fault!

                                                               Later, P B.


Keith E. Whisman

Can I have your Vista License since your not going to use it?



3000 out of how many PCs? Let's see, Vista has sold over 40 million in the last few months alone (2008) for a total of somewhere in the 120 to 140 million range since it's release... and 3K changed their minds...?

I guess knowledge of math is not a requirement to work at Maxium PC... 3000 is a rounding error with numbers in the 10s of millions...

This is NOT news, just  a very bad attempt to capture eyeballs with a tired and overused (baseless) act of "numbers" sensationalism. You guys must really be having trouble capturing eyeballs out there to stoop this low...



Let's see... Vista has sold over 40 million copies in the last few months (2008) and a mere 3000 responded to a survey... To all the rocket scientists at Maxium PC... it's called math and it would not harm any of you to learn how it works. 3000 is a mere rounding error in terms of 10s of millions of copies sold. Is the total closer to 120 or 140 million copies sold since the release?


This is not news... just misplaced sensationalism... are you guys having trouble capturing eyeballs?



It was a survey, an appraisal and like with most surveys it is rounded off. We just reported the way we saw it. They "sampled" 3000 people so ask them why they didn't train their eyes on all the millions out there. As far as I know most surveys concern themselves with only a small proportion. If we were to go by the maths-of-superior magnitudes-holding-sway formula most surveys would be useless.

Disclaimer: We didn't conduct the survey, it was done by another party. We were not even stakeholders in the survey. It was there for everyone to see and so was reported. 


Keith E. Whisman

Perhaps those third that downgraded perhaps they were forced to do so by that Microsoft update that detects Windows activation cracks and patches those os's. What I'm trying to say is that perhaps those third were using pirated copies of Vista and downgraded because they did'nt want to purchase a legitimate license.

Just a guess. I imagine quite alot of people downgraded that month.



They say "by their masters themselves" before "or manufacturers" as if to imply the majority of downgraders, performed the downgrade themselves. I would be suprised if even 1% downgraded themselves.

During the past 6 months XP stopped being available. The only way to get it is through downgrade rights. These statistics are counting the computers that were purchased with a Vista license but were preloaded with XP. This is deceiving because downgrading makes you think the user tried Vista and then decided to downgraded. When the fact is that Vista was never installed on a system that comes loaded with XP through downgrade rights.

Maximum PC, what happened with the Minimum BS?



It was just reported neutrally and it says "news".  I can't see any Vista bashing either from MPC' end. It is a survey and we expect it to have been fair. Having said that, it isn't the final verdict, is it? So everyone just chill.



It sure looks like Max-PC does agree w/their findings/survay! "Need we say more? A survey is worth a thousand words!" I'm kind of wondering now if I can trust anything I've read or will read on here from now on!?

                                                                                                                                                Sad, P B.



It is overwhelming when it says that 1/3 are downgrading. So that says it all. I really can't figure out another way to report it: you report it the way you see it. We haven't said that Vista is crap, we are not playing soothsayer. I hope you get my point. Well, mate, I could have tried a bit better but am a bit busy right now :) and sleepy too. Anyways, I do see where you are coming from: Vista is fine. However, the point is many people aren't all that receptive to it. This is what this surver says and this what other surveys say. Take the case of the survey that was reported a day ago - Enterprises not adopting Vista, there were so many people in the comments section who said their businesses are also not too keen. That is their point and I respect it. This is yours and I respect it.

Also there was talk about XP going out of retail - a valid point again. But lest also not forget that the whole internet had been mobilized to save the OS.

This is just not Vista bashing and if it were you would have known. It would have been presented as such and maybe as a Feature outlining the issues. 

Disclaimer: The author of this comment takes no responsibility of any typos that might have crept into the comment as he is "half past dead." 



When I posted my comment I fully understood that this was sourced from another site. I also understand that the new has blog style articles and that you are not necessarily someone that works on the magazine if you submit content to the site. I also was not thinking that you or MaxPC was trying to put down Vista.

My only concern was that the statistic from this survey was being presented in an extremely deceptive manner. I know and everyone should know that statistics stretch the truth. I know this statistic is deceptive and I would expect MaxPC to know that also, but some people visiting this site wont know. They come to Maximum PC to get No BS information. My post was to let MaxPC know that this is not up to the standard I expect from them. I know they didn't perform the survey or write the article, but it is on their website which would suggest to readers that they aprove the information.

I didn't mean to attack you as the blogger who posted the article. I just wanted MaxPC to know that I expect more from them. I come to the website for the same reason I read the magazine. I don't want the BS that you get from other PC magazines/websites. Please keep the same standards on the website. Don't post an article that is heavy on BS or at least add a sidebar with your own words warning of possible BS.



Patrick, Having read the article myself I can probably admit that maybe some of the language might have been sensational. A couple of words here and there and the whole picture can change. But we do learn from such things and your comments are always welcome. So next time when I write even the most laconic blog I would take into account what MPC readers expect from us. 

Peace From this Side of the Globe,




Vista's bad press is solely due to Nvidia and Creative drivers mucking things up at Vista's launch. Personally, I haven't had any problems with Vista (Home Premium 32 bit)--except for those I caused myself.

I bought a laptop with Vista pre-installed one month after Vista's official launch. Knowing that I have a restore disc, I tinkered. I have had to restore this computer to factory state many times, but again, it was all due to my doing something crazy. I still have the laptop and everything is great.

I also have gone the path of Vista upgrade (Home Basic). I had an HP Pavilion (Celeron D 3 GHz and 2 GB ram) that wasn't so hot at running Vista. I stress the point that it wasn't the OS's fault; it was solely the hardware. This particular computer was bought just before the manufacturers started putting the stickers on new units indicating that a computer was "Vista Ready." I took a chance that the rig could handle the OS but it couldn't. I don't blame Vista for that.

Since then, I have built a rig and installed Vista (Home Premium 64 bit) and have not had any problems with it at all--stability, drivers, or anything.

In my opinion, I would much rather use Vista than XP (not to dis XP, but I think Vista is better overall.)



As I did when XP was released allthose years ago, I waited until SP1 came out. Being the alpha geek in my family, I jumped head-first into the shallow end of the pool by installing Vista Ultimate 64-bit SP1 on my personal machine. It was among the smoothest Windows installations I've ever done, and I've found it to be a rock-solid OS with an excellent new GUI. I was able to easily obtain 64-bit drivers for those devices that needed it (namely an older Epson scanner and a generic Canon monochrome laser printer).

After using it for two months, I installed a 32-bit Vista Ultimate on another family member's system, as well as two Home Premium 32-bit versions and two Vista Basics on systems for other family members (all SP1 versions, of course).

My son and I both play games on our systems, and neither of us has had any problems to speak of except for Age of Conan (which crashed occasionally), but from what I've gatehred, it's an AoC problem and not related to Visa. It hasn't happened recently, however, so perhaps that problem has been addressed.

I think that MS charges too much for Vista, and I still hate validaton and always will. All it does is make life difficult for honest customers, and I don't like being treated like a criminal. (Validation is like gun control; only law-abiding citizens get hurt, and the bad guys always find a work-around.) With all of that said, however, my experience with Vista itself has been positive.




I use vista business and vista prem and found it to run well as long as you have 2GB memory and at least a dual core processor, and upgrade to sp1 so far it has ran well. When Vista came out vendors and people were putting the OS on a p4 system with 512MB of memory and legacy hardware that should have been upgraded a year before. The only few times i downgraded was due to what hardware was running on the desktop/workstation.

The un-PC PC Engineer



I switched to 64-bit Vista after the release of SP1.  I guess I'm one of the few who actually like it better than XP.  All my applications, games and peripherals now work under Vista as well as they did under XP, so I won't be going back. The performance issues look like they have been addressed also.

Since Vista x64 does have a big memory footprint (1.1GB at the desktop), you will need at least 4GB of RAM for it to run well. And because of bandwidth limitations, 4GB of RAM on an Intel chipset prohibits most FSB overclocking above 400MHz.

Vista still has its share of gottchas. If you upgrade your parts frequently as I do, Microsoft, by the way Vista handles DRM and product activation, has made sure your upgrade will be a real pain in the ass.  Change the processor only and watch Vista's DRM management code go crazy with hidden services repeatedly crashing and restarting over and over and over again.



So you've figured out a way to fix the performance hit with Vista?  Good for you.  I'll continue to try to find a work around it.



Maybe you need a little extra RAM? While the older benchmarks may show a performance hit, newer benchmarks show that it no longer exists.,2845,2302499,00.asp

I nervously purchased a laptop with Vista pre-installed and was pleasantly suprised and how much I liked it. I started missing it on my older desktop and finally upgraded it to Vista Home Premium. It's an AMD Athlon 3800, nVidia 6800GT. I did upgrade the RAM from 1 Gig to 2, which made a noticable difference, and it runs just fine. It still plays Call of Duty 4 at 1024x768. While I know quite a few people who have decided not to upgrade, I don't personally know a single one who has downgraded. 



I would just like to know how many Maximum PC employees are using Vista.. I'll bet it's better than half!? I've been running Vista Home Premium 32bit for around a year & have had very little problems with it. I had a couple of issues right at first but those were fixed with a simple update, since SP1, It's as stable as XP! XP wasn't perfect from the start either. This is the kind of BS that made me let my subscription expire.. old news & bs stories!!

                                                                                                                                                         Later, P B.



I agree!!


Keith E. Whisman

Your going to trust the Devil to offer an accurate survey result?




I must say that i am having no problems with vista. With that said, the only reason i switched from XP to Vista was because Vista 64. Remarkably I can honestly say vista has finally jump start 64 Bit. If it wasn't for the 64 bit, I would of still remain on XP

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