US Agents Can Now Legally Seize Your Laptops

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Stormz

No, squiggly, Sorry to say, I'm not trying to make money, What I'm asking for is for people (you included), to "Visit" our site and read our articles in our Forum so you and everyone else who chooses to, Will be Enlightened on what Our Government is really doing and How we can stop this Madness.But we also cover Many other Topics as well,such as maintaining your PC, Internet online security, and just general Off Topic too. Free Tech support, to jokes of the day.Just to Clarify your statement though, We Do "Offer"VPN and SSH
Online Services, But That is Not a requirement to visit or become a member to our forum.Also, even in joining and becoming a member, you remain totally
Anonymous, and you can post and speak your mind,Openly and Honestly,with No Fear of Any Law Enforcement Agencies coming down on you. At our site, it is totally add Free and You Truly have your right to : Freedom Of Speech. I'm not someone who is jumping in here and posting and running, I've had a subcription to MaximumPC for years, But I'm also teed off with all these BS laws that our Government is shoving down our throats.It's Time that everyone
Opens their eyes and realize what's going on around them. Quit being distracted by all the BS..In other words " Being able to see the Forrest, through the trees " Here's a good example, here on this board, i've got to police my words whereas if i was at the forum that i'm asking for all to visit, I could let loose and really make a rant, and not worry about Anything that i would say..Enough said!You get the point.
Anyway, Come One, Come All.....Take a peek...Then Make a speech.

Check us out at:

http://www.intl-alliance.com/forum/index.php
http://www.intl-alliance.com

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Squiggy

Sorry.  I didn't see your link.  You're trying to make money.  Never mind.

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Squiggy

I said "get a lawyer and start a class-action suit".  You California types seem to just want to yell (i.e. "protest"), instead of actually doing something.  Then your latest left-coast outrage trickles over and screws the rest of us. 

And once again - YOU DON'T HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO FLY ON AN AIRPLANE!!! 

You have a right against unreasonable search and seizure, but that right can be mitigated in certain circumstances in which you voluntarily give it up (like deciding to take an airplane ride).  YOU CHOOSE THIS.  It is not forced on you.  Take the bus.  You might have to sleep next to a wino, but at least you don't have to get "outraged", eh? 

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Stormz

No, we shouldn't have to just " get over it ".And yes, there are things that we can do to change the direction in which our government is headed. But we can't change it if if you want to consider yourself as a " Sheeple " and let the Government " Herd " you the direction that " They " want you to go.
Laws are being passed,a lot quicker now, The Media are told to sqwash alot of what is going on behind the scenes. For an example, a law is getting ready to be passed to whereas Communism is going to be allowed to be taught to our children. Teachers will be allowed to be registered Communist Party Members and will not be prosecuted anymore...The list goes on and on in this Bill that is getting ready to be passed in California. Do you see much Media Coverage on this ? No, you don't. But if people would stand up and refuse to allow the Government to herd them. And stand up for their Rights Together and put a Stop to all of these events Before they lose their Rights.

There is So Much More You Can Learn at:

http://www.intl-alliance.com/forum/index.php

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Squiggy

You don't have a constitutional right to fly on an airplane.  And I don't have the right to blow one up.  If they have to get out the rubber gloves, so be it.  As long as my children get home safely I'll deal with an inconvenience.

 

Having said that, if abuses are happening, get a lawyer and start a class action suit.  That's the way it works in a constitutional republic. 

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Devo85x

THIS IS BULL S***! Cant we do something to change this?

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Stormz

Homeland Security.....Patriot Act are only Distractions as to what is
" Really " going on , behind the scenes, such as laws being passed, to
introduce "NWO " " Become Informed "
If you really want to know, and be able to post and speak totally Free,
As in " Real Freedom Of Speech " and no worries of any type of retaliation
from " Any " authorities, anywhere. And learn about Real Online Security,
and about Governmental News, and general knowledge of how to stay safe online, Computer issues and Networking, Proxy software and how to set it up
properly, Online privacy services Are Available....Read our forums,
Become a member for free and post all that you want or create new topics
The choice is yours....All we ask, is that you read and adhere to the
forum rules and policies and respect them.

Please join us or check out our forum at:

http://www.intl-alliance.com/forum/index.php
Or http://www.intl-alliance.com

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ZeroCool2x

Honestly, what's wrong with Americans today? (Myself included.) We sit back and under the auspices of fear and security we allow our rights and the principle laws of our founding fathers to be thrown to the winds. Why? So that we can sit at home and watch our big screen TVs and play on our computers? The Bush administration has done this for the last 8 years. By crying that all of these new laws such as the Patriot Act are necessary for our protection and that in order to achieve the best safety possible for all Americans we should not be afraid to give up some of our rights. And when people reject these cries they are called traitors and are scolded for being unpatriotic, hence the Patriot Act.

We should all be ashamed of ourselves. We have allowed fear to rule our lives. We have allowed laws like this to be passed. This law has been in place for sometime, yet no one cries foul until it happens to them. Until the government comes in to your home and takes away a right that you hold dear do you raise your arms in question. What kind of country are we leaving to our kids.

Honestly look at all that has happened in the last 8 years. Do not take my word, but look. Get your hands dirty and open your eyes before you loose more than your computer or IPod. 

I have heard my neighbors discussing how Obama is a muslim and that as a muslim he does not have the right to be President. First of all Obama is not Muslim, but what if he was? Are we racist, bigots? As Americans how can we sit by idley waiting, afraid to act or to speak up. I thought this was the land of the free, where all men and women are equal no matter their religon, skin color or ethnicity. Do you know for just saying this, for just saying to wake up and vote your conscious when you go to the polls I can be looked upon as a traitor?

I love this country. Some people will say "If you don't like it leave." Why? Why should I have to leave, my founding fathers gave all of us basic rights and now those rights are being taken away. Not just my rights, but your rights as well. What has happened to freedom of speech, due process, protection from unlimited search and seizure. You all laugh now, but if things keep going the way they are now what's next? Does the Executive Branch fire Justice Department Officials just because they don't support the view of the Executive Branch so that the seperation of powers is broken. So that one of the safety mechanisms setup by our forefathers is cast a side. You wonder why laws like this get by the courts, it's because the political parties have stacked the deck.

 

So flame me, Yell at me, you have the right, but be-careful you might not have it for long. Then again I might find myself in jail tomorrow for writing this. But at least I have gotten off my butt and spoken, to you and myself. It's time for us as Americans to take a look at what we have allowed to happen and then stop and make a change. It's not too late.

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Whiskey06

Let's see what happens... I'm surprised the 9th Circuit ruled it was acceptable. Without seeing the policy itself, it's difficult to fathom how they can go beyond a cursory search without meeting the standards for search and seizure.

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brokenmoth08

That is! THAT'S! &*^%! Now I'm never going anywhere by plane!

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MaxFan

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791. 
Unfortunately the following clause has had superiority of precedence over the 4th since McCollough v Maryland in 1819:
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Both Presidents and Congress have used this clause in the constitution plus the 11th amendment, which allows the government a type of "immunity from prosecution" in civil matters, to abrogate any "percieved" right.  Only when the US Supreme Court has stepped in to uphold the individualist rights as in the recent Heller V District of Columbia has the federal state or local government had to pull back.  Unfortunately for us currently we have Justices Bryer, Stephens, Ginsburg, and Souter who would rule in favor of the Government as Nanny Every time. and Justices Roberts, Scalia, Alito, and Thomas who prefere minimilist governments and right in the middle you have a spotlighter in A. Kennedy who probably would vote for Marx were he a candidate. 

People Elections Matter!!  If you dont want yet another Souter Stephens Ginsburg or Bryer on the Supreme Court, Make Sure you vote Against Obama!!  He will be the one who replaces the next member to leave the Supreme Court. 

 You really want to solve the countries ills?  This fall when it comes time to vote vote Against Obama!  Vote Against your current Democratic House member (gets rid of Pelosi as speaker) Vote Against your Democratic Senator(gets rid of Reid as Majority Leader)  and vote against any neo liberal RINO (Republican in Name Only)

Failing that you will be forced at some point to choose:  My family or the Government.  Just as in the film The Patriot the protagonist had to choose so shall you.  Before it comes down to that choice do your self a favor stack the deck for yourself by electing leaders who are not self serving demagogues or pacifistic tree huggers with designs of global utopian communism elect leaders who understand what Jefferson truly belived:  The government that governs least governs best.  Do this and I can guarantee that you will have an easier time when it comes time to put would be dictators and plutocrats backs against the wall

 

 

 

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seankelly88

It is interesting to see how everyone complains about government, yet no one is leaving... we have one of the best places in the world to live, with all the freedom to go with it, and yet people are complaining about rights...

thats as asinine as a drunk driver claiming his inalienable rights as he staggers back and forth in an effort to keep himself upright.

the fact of the matter is that of all government structures in this world, a democratic and free society is the most difficult to balance... and sometimes we don't have perfect laws, and sometimes corruption undermines our efforts... but that doesn't make it right for everyone out there who hates his/her life or feels psychologically inferior to get on the rag wagon... 

SOOoo tiring.

lastly, I am a strong advocate of privacy rights, and I probably disagree with any law that would allow random confiscation of a person's laptop, etc. 

BUT, it must be put into perspective... research the  damn law first... I would guess that there is an inverse proportional relationship between the size of the "FLAME" against government and the liklihood of that person even read the actual law.

in the words of Stan Lee...

 

'nuff said

 

 

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lostcause64

You should be careful who you dis about the right to "flame" the government. I only spent 6 years serving in the Air Force as a security specialist, but I did my time.  Have you?  I've earned the right, in fact it's the duty of every American, to call our government to the carpet when they go too far.  If you want to stick your head in the sand, singing "la-la-la-la everything the government does is right", feel free, but don't expect everyone else to see it the same way. At one time, we had the best government in the world, but now the jury is out deliberating on that.  If we do not keep the government working for us, we will no longer have a government worth having, and this will not be the best place in the world to live anymore. 

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Ben Franklin

John

Try to be smarter than the object you're working with! It will make things easier, and might just save your life...

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mikeart03a

Can American politics get any uglier (or Canadian politics as well)? First it's these mandatory Secure ID/Passport at the border crap for canadians, now this electronic device seizure crap... what next? No more devices period? Boy wouldn't that kill industry right there. I guess there goes my vacation plans for christmas, so much for spending time in new york... I don't need my $1500 laptop being seized by some stupid flunky nor my blackberry...

- mike_art03a IT
Technician
Gov't of Canada

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Wildebeast

Hmmm, I spent all day, waiting for the "just stop your whining, and fix the problem with piles of cash...." Guys to post.

I was looking forward to hearing about how we should all just keep our lawyer on retainer & speed dial.  Or maybe buy our own island to live on, like a Bond Villian...

I guess this is just a case where we're all in the same boat, for once.  

There's not even a super-conservatives arguing "it's necessary..." 

Could this be the start of the disposable laptop industry?

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Techrocket9

What kind of person has "piles of cash" high enough to replace a $3,000 laptop each time they go on vacation???

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HR Paperstacks

Canadians who travel across the border frequently.  As a member of that demographic -- I am incensed that this was deemed legal.  Might as well expect the rubber glove treatment the next time I cross the border =/

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Keith E. Whisman

Well that's mostly because Canadians look and talk like US citizens. If we were hard on the Mexican border the Mexicans would scream racism. Even though they are the reason it's so hard to find a good paying job in border states. Illegals. Really when was the last time Canadians tried to rush our borders?

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TheDuck

So I buy that $3,000 Dell XPS M1730 (At least I think it is), and go to Italy and back... I would have a chance of getting it taken from me... what about the same for that can of beef stew?! Already having the goverment watching Internet movments is odd enough, but this? Great way to hunt for terroists, but I would like privacy, thank you.

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nerdzilla1130

How long will the mass majority of Americans keep taking this abuse.
Land of the free, we are prisoners in our own country. Government is
supposed to be for the people by the people. Every time someone brings
anything into question all i here is that if you have nothing to hide
then why worry about it. Principal I am not a criminal and we do not
deserve to be treated as criminals by default. What has happened to
America, we get attacked by a terrorist and the American public is
treated as the threat. I would not be surprised at all if 911 was
planed just so our government could use its scare tactics to get this
kind of dictatorship ship policy pushed threw. America land of no
rights, no protection, against the people by the iron fist.

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Hetzel

I've heard of software for PDA phones that can remotely erase the device if it's stolen or if someone is fired from a company.  Does anyone know of software that can remotely erase a laptop?  I'd feel a whole lot better about owning a laptop if I knew that the next time it was brought online I could send a command to format the drive.

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AndyYankee17

screw that, a remote setting to DBAN it, formatting it won't do crap

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nebbuchanezzar

actually, DBaN can do a lot...if you have enuf time, DBaN will get a disk so that it is 100% unreadable...theres also a setting in it i believe that is specifically for property seizure where it just violently nukes a disk and b0rkz it to a state of FUBAR...that is, of course, assuming that its allowed to perform this task, etc.

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nerdzilla1130

there are invasive viruses that do that, not that hard to do.

be warned.......

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alfasteve

C'mon - is anyone surprised at this? What Bush, Cheney and their little gang have done is systematically stripped our constitution of any rights we have. Yes, today - but also for all future generations!

Here's the problem, folks - Bushie and the Boys only have a few months left. But what's done is done - you can't put this genie back in the bottle. Torture, Illegal Search & Seizure, and more - Do you really think McCain or even Obama will reverse these? Isn't it easier to do nothing? When have you seen our government GIVE us additional safeguards?

We may not see this current administration actually take away anyone's electronic devices. But, rest assured that, as long as this law is on the books, our government will reserve the right to do so.

We miss the point of all the crap that these guys have been doing. Their real legacy is that they have laid the groundwork for the totalitarian state that we say "can't happen to us". It's like rats in your walls - they are there right now, breeding... when they come out, how can you be surprised?

Great, huh? Now you only have to be afraid of EVERY ONE of our future Presidents.

 

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statewd

I voted for Bush twice also and I've been real upset with the various things that have happened now with Bush in charge.  I understand security is tightened to prevent terrorism, and I completely agree with this -- I want bad people behind bars.  However when taking away our everyday rights and privacy on ordinary citizens in the guise of protecting us from terrorism is wrong.  The fact that the Bush Administration specifically ordered to torture people is upsetting.  1). Torture is against international treaty and the US would NEVER do such a thing.  2). Some suspects have enough evidence against them, however some do NOT.  Either way, these suspects should be tried in a court where they are told the evidence against them to give them a proper defense.  Probably 90% are guilty, but we shouldn't find them guilty until the evidence has been told in the proper manner.

I voted for Bush twice and I am a Republican, but quite seriously thinking of changing.  I am so disallusioned from what I thought America was and what it is now.  This is supposed to be the land of the free.  It is supposed to be a Democracy... not a police state.  Haven't you guys ever read the book 1982?  I wonder why Bush hasn't read that book.  And if anyone dare disagree with Bush, he throws you to the wolves.

Also why on the news do I keep on hearing "the #1 concern of Americans is the Economy", well guess what News, what about our rights and liberties?  The US is torturing people which shouldn't be happening... period.  Also people are not being tried with due process.  The army courts don't even give the defense attorney the evidence being charged against suspects!  Didn't anyone read a few months ago about the Canadian citizen who had the same name as a terrorist, so the US gov immediately picked him up, sent him to Guantanamo and he was tortured for TWO YEARS!  And then finally released now.  It makes you question whether there are US/Canada citizens who are currently detained that are innocent?

None of the senators / repres are even talking about this?  No American citizens that I know of are even concerned with this?  The news never even talks about this?  Whenever there's a news report on the Internet that there's more evidence that says the Bush Administration did indeed torture and still may be doing it, the TV news if you're lucky does a report that is 5 seconds long.  While most of the time, you never hear of such reports on TV broadcasts.  I also never hear any reporters asking the important questions regarding this.  We're all just still watching all those reports on the economy and energy prices, while neglecting the most important issue of all.

Please I truly hope there is someone here that agrees with me.  Please reply if you do.  I am quite desperate to hear if there are any Americans that even care about this, because right now I'm not seeing any.

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nerdzilla1130

i would care about all of this, but i gave up on all of that a long time ago. as soon as i graduate college, i will be jumping oceans and moving to the u.k. or austrailia or new zeland. forgive my spelling. i have see what america has become and i am discusted. when i tell people this, i get the why the hell would you do that??? think about it, no anti-terrost propaganda, no extreamest pick and tourture, guantanamo bay, no uprising about gas, smaller if not none exsistant gangs, and less bullshit politics.

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Keith E. Whisman

Perhaps European schools have higher entrance standards as well. How did you get into College? I know that I'm not smart enough, I admit that, but how did you do it?

And damn you really are taking that whole saying about the grass being greener on the other side of the fence too seriously.

I would'nt live anywhere other than here unless it's the land of the sexy naked ladies and weed is legal there. And broudband wireless is available everywhere there.

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AndyYankee17

in sweden, 100 mbps synchronus for about $20/month. only thing that turns me off is foriegn firearm laws.

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statewd

I now see that more of this same discussion is at:

http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=80427

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Keith E. Whisman

This is a quote "The fact that the Bush Administration specifically ordered to torture people is upsetting.  1). Torture is against international treaty and the US would NEVER do such a thing."

I have to say from my military experience and love of military history I must point out that torture when necessary works. Torture has always worked. Everyone has a breaking point. It's used to win battles and save lives. Yes it's terrible but so is war. When it goes so far as to goto war then you have to be able to swallow your personal moralities and do the killing and maming that has to be done so that the war can end as quickly as it can.

The Bush administration and our congress do not have the stomache to fight a bloody war. Get it over with as quickly as possible to end the suffering the civilians must feel.

Over in Iraq right now we are fighting insurgents, foreign insurgents. These insurgents that come to Iraq and kill Americans and Iraqis are not part of a military force. They are not members of any national Army. These are known as partisans and thus are not under any protections by any international rules of war or humanitartian agreements. In fact Partisans are terrorists. We are free to kill them on site as we did in VietNam as the Germans did to the Russian and French Partisans.

So legally we can torture partisans and even kill them. They have no recognizable rights. Even if they are brougt here to the USA they do not fall under the same protections that a US citizen enjoys.

So we have to get our heads out of our butts and do what needs to be done. If we fight war then we need to accept that we need to kill and people are going to die.

I volunteered and served my time for my country. Perhaps I would do it again if things get so bad as to need older soldiers to serve.

Go Army all the way. HooAh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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AndyYankee17

so you're saying if we wound up all the people is this world named "muhammed" and tortured 'em all it'd be ok because 0.01% of them are terrorists?

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Keith E. Whisman

You understand what I wrote. It's not like that at all. It's about the war. Not religeon. If people aim their weapons at us or threaten our interests both foreign and dometic then that is an act of war. This is'nt indiscriminate killing. It's war. In war we have to kill. If they scream islamic terms while falling to their deaths then so be it. What we are allowed to fight wars with anyone but muslims?

If you don't understand war then stop right now and research war then come back and post comments.

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Keith E. Whisman

Well I voted for Bush twice and I have fully supported the whole war on terror this includes both wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I'll also be supporting any future wars a US president deems necessary. Clausiwitz said that war was the furthering of diplomacy by other means.

But I must say that the laws that were enacted that removed alot of our privacy rights have really bothered me from the start. These laws were meant to be temporary. Sure security is always going to get stiffer at the airports we can never allow another 911 happen but willfully giving up rights and privacy in the name of security gives our enemies more power. Look they win because they made us scared enough to give up some rights. Albeit slight the mere fact that these laws exsist is scary. The gov't can at a whim decide that citizens should'nt own guns and ban them at once. Perhaps fastfood is killing too many americans. They can decide to shut down all fast food restaurants. Our gov't is not supposed to have that much power.

You have heard the term "give them an inch and they take a mile"? We are giving them an inch by not screaming now.

W. Bush is one of the greatest presidents we have ever had but he is'nt perfect. Like all presidents he does'nt live in the same world as the working class like us. He does'nt feel the effects these laws have on us.

This is the United States of America. Not Nazi Germany. You do not and never will require papers to move about your country. But laws like these are a stepping stone for stiffer laws. If they get away with these laws we are saying we don't care about our civil rights and rights to privacy.

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horzo

Good luck with that. They'll probably arrest you for spreading terrorist propoganda and seize all your assets.

Hopefully once we get someone with half a brain in office, a lot of this crap will be repealed.

 

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mlee19

This is absolutely, 100% pure BULLSHIT that  we would allow this to happen. Whatever happen to personal privacy. I dont want some agent with no good reason to mess with my Laptop and mp3 player and more than likely not get it back because some how they can link everything to Al-Qaeda these days for thier own personal bennifet. I have to agree with nerdzilla1130 when he said that "this is absoultly obsurd. it is like a goverment home invasion.the day we can legaly walk into goverment officals homes, snoop
around there stuff and keep items indefinently will i agree to that."

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nerdzilla1130

this is absoultly obsurd. it is like a goverment home invasion.

the day we can legaly walk into goverment officals homes, snoop around there stuff and keep items indefinently will i agree to that.

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't there an amendment agains property seizure with out probable cause, or with out court order?

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Techrocket9

Read this text from the 5th!!!

 

"nor shall private property be taken... without just compensation."

 

See: http://tinyurl.com/5th-Amendment

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nerdzilla1130

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.

i need to print this out in case this happens!!!!!

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AndyYankee17

see, https://secure.eff.org/site/Ecommerce/644406643?JServSessionIdr010=gqzwxtlt62.app13b&store_id=2441

also wrap up your luggage in this: https://secure.eff.org/site/Ecommerce/644406643?store_id=2441

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lostcause64

"Identification Papers, please!" anyone?  The greatest damage of 9/11 isn't war or increased costs of oil or anything like that.  It's the loss of our personal rights and freedoms to a government that is out of touch with the public, and a public that continues to allow it all to happen.

John

Try to be smarter than the object you're working with! It will make things easier, and might just save your life...

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