Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail) Now Available to Download

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pastorbob

Okay, I installed Ubuntu on my system as a dual boot with Windows 8. Though the install was smooth and it found all of the necessary drivers, I'm still not any more impressed than I was way back with version 6.10. It still can't run my main software suite and it is still not intuitive as Windows is for me. Granted I am sure that is due to the experience factor. But there is no compelling reason for me to switch to Linux. I gain nothing and lose much. I will keep it installed as a learning tool and spend time with it as I can. Naw, on second thought I will do as I have done for the past several versions I tried. Deleting it and staying with what works for me.

It is simply a matter of experience, need and preference.

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DoctorX

i have downloaded kubuntu and xubuntu in virtualbox and testing it now. I am noticing a speed improvement. I may end up upgrading my Dell laptop to it over the weekend if all the repos are online. They have been getting killed since yesterday.

Steam for linux rocks! More and more games coming to steam. L4D2 is in beta and will be on linux too.

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pastorbob

Mr. BJoswald,

Soooo tell me - Did you have to practice to become a horse's ass or were you born that way?

I have probably forgotten more about computers and operating systems - heck, technology in general than you will ever learn. You presume to know me and make derogatory remarks based on a one paragraph comment that is by no means all inclusive of my thoughts concerning Linux. And even at that it is obvious from your remarks you didn't comprehend what I was saying. Yet one more example of a failed education system in the U.S.

My friend, learning new things has never been a problem for me. Learning new things that don't serve my purposes are a waste of my valuable time. And Linux of any flavor falls into that category. I could list my experiences in learning but there is not enough space in this particular forum. And given what I have seen from you so far, you couldn't understand it all anyway.

Perhaps in the future, before you shoot your mouth off you should know all of the facts. You resort to personal attacks which is an indication of the inability to carry on a civil discussion with anybody who might disagree with you. Such hostility and ignorance is the one of the main problems in the world today.

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Renegade Knight

I agree with your sentiment. It's better to use a tool you know well and which does the job, than always change tools just because it's new and different. New and different aren't enough. There has to be something compelling to make the investment of time worth it.

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DoctorX

then maybe you are too old to be on Maximum PC then. I doubt you are older than me and you do NOT have more experience than me unless you have mainframe experience (the only os i haven't admind or worked on). Do not presume and bash others. You started attacking first talking about stuff you have no clue about. Just because you don't have the time (you are in the wrong site if that is the case) or you just don't care, doesn't mean you can come in here and talk high and mighty about that you don't have the time to learn something that is easier than windows to learn. Hell my parents ran and still run Linux Mint.

If you hate Linux and don't want to learn something new and is the hottest and fastest growing sector of jobs... then be my guest. But quit being all pompous about it and spreading FUD. You have no idea what you are talking about.

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pastorbob

And here we have further comments from another who seemingly cannot comprehend what he reads, draws conclusions based on limited info, and uses personal attacks and insults against those who disagree with him.

This all started when I DARED to state my opinion about Ubuntu based on my experiences. I didn't attack or insult until I was attacked and insulted. Granted, that was not the best way to respond. But what is done is done. However. let me set the record straight about a few things.

I am 62, which I believe makes me much older than you given your other comments on your dad. I still work full-time about 60 hours a week along with spending time with my wife and family of five adult children, their spouses and my seven grandchildren, and persuing other hobbies and interests. So yes, my time is extremely valuable to me.

I began working with computers in 1973 on an IBM 360 mainframe that used punch cards for input and programmed it in FORTRAN. The only OS's with which I have no experience are any Apple OS. That is because most of my applications of hardware and software have been manufacturing based. Other than that I have learned and used almost every other OS marketed including many flavors of Linux. That includes DEC PDP 11 series minicomptuers through the early 80's.

I have built every personal computer I use or have ever used at home and many of those used on the job (in excess of 500) with the exceptions of my tablets and laptops. I have never paid for admin or repairs because I do it myself.

In 1998 when my wife set up her own home business with internet sales I built a Web server for her using Redhat Linux and Apache server. I'm sorry but my "burned out old fart" memory escapes me as to what version it was. She closed her business in 2004 when I changed careers.

Though I haven't written software in several years due to my career change, I was proficient in 8080/8086 Assembly Langauge, Turbo Pascal and C++ and wrote numerous applications for compact disc manufacturing in my previous job.

I have used Ubuntu on several versions but always had to return to Windows because the software I needed is not available with Linux, still the case today for over 50 % of my work. Not because I "hate" it.

I am not telling you all of these things to brag, but rather to hopefully show you that things are not always what they appear to be, especially where online discussions are concerned.

I am happy for you the you are in the middle of a rapidly expanding field where your skills are needed. But that doesn't mean everyone has the need to switch over to Linux or that the tools we use are no longer useful or productive. And, like it or not, there are still programs to which Linux has no equivalent nor will they run on Linux.

As far as spreading FUD, a term you throw about quite loosely, the only thing I did was state my opinion based on my experiences. You think Linux is easier to install and master than Windows. That is based on your experience. Does that mean you are spreading FUD directed at Windows? No. We just happen to have had different experiences with both OS's. When my original post is read in its entirety and if one has a grasp of the English language then you can see it is obviously an opinion. The only place I fell short at was not clarifying that the main application I use is only available for Windows and Mac OS.

I could go on with my "high and mighty" and "pompous" response to your rude and insulting comments but I have other things to do today. And you my friend, (if I may quote you) "have no idea what you are talking about", where my knowledge, skills, experience and ability to learn are concerned.

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Engelsstaub

I don't want to get in the middle of this but FWIW I think you have legitimate points. It comes down to personal experience and nobody is really "wrong" per se.

I'm not exactly a novice when it comes to computers but I had a really difficult time with Fedora. FOSS zealots and evangelists kept telling me how simple it all was but it was a friggin' nightmare for me compared to Debian-based OSes.

...but anyway I think this kind of goes back to that bjoswald guy cracking about people being washed up old farts. That's disrespectful and age has nothing to do with anything. Computer enthusiasts aren't confined to children and young adults. People of all ages are enthusiasts in this area and read publications/websites like Maximum PC. I'm pushing forty myself.

I can't apologize for others' comments but I am sorry to you that some jackasses think they will remain young forever. Life goes by a lot quicker than they will realize.

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pastorbob

Engelsstaub, thank you for your insightful comment.

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Hilarity

Still a nerdy tech toy. Will X work or die? Will nouveau or fglrx work or throw a spastic fit? Will your printer work or require a laughable 150MB of libs? Will you be taking a hammer to your system just because you can't figure out the UI?

Mac OS and Apple may be completely locked down and restrictive but at least it works. As in plug it in, done. No drivers, it all just works. Address that Ubuntu . . . . oh wait, you can't, as Linux is supposed to be completely *open*.

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DoctorX

Obviously you havent tried windows 8.

WTF are you talking about? This was true 5 years ago, but not now. Comparing Apple with linux about drivers is not even a fair comparious. Apple makes the hardware. Windows, even windows 8, still have to have drivers installed if you want to do anything more than surf the web. Get real.

As for printers:

FUD much? HP has the best LInux compatibility of them all. Yes, all in one hp are supported and work great. In fact, I just acquired a F2210 all in one and plugged in usb and didnt even have to run the wizard to install it. It installed itself. There is support for pretty much any HP printer in linux natively. In fact most printers on the market today run just fine in Linux (although i am talking ubuntu derivatives here).

I also just bought a Brother laser printer and just went to the website and downloaded the linux driver. 5 mins later, I was printing from Kubuntu.

You really need to quit spreading fud that was relevant back in the Vista days. It has absolutely no bearing on modern distros.

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Bucket_Monster

I think the main problem is that software and hardware vendors usually don't support Linux natively. Once we start seeing that, things will turn around.

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DoctorX

Hmm... steam is supported... most printers... almost all nics... all nvidia and ati cards... hd homerun prime. Highend sata raid card. Most sound cards. MS office coming to linux in 2014. Libreoffice is much improved. About the only hardware not supported anymore is modems.

lets see about other: chrome, firefox, thunderbird, ms office 2007 in crossover office (ran that for years until we switched to gapps).

What kind of hardware issues you have? What software you are talking about?

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pastorbob

I agree. But I also don't think we will ever see the support from hardware and software vendors to the degree that it will make a difference. Linux in one form or another has been available since 1991. The GNU Project (the backbone of Linux) has been around since 1983. The open source concept which is the strength of Linux is also its greatest weakness where hardware and software manufacturers are concerned.

But that's just the opinion of one "burnt-out old fart".

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DoctorX

I run linux on several different brands of hardware from old to brand new. All the major hardware vendors are supporting linux. I have no idea what you are talking about.

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pastorbob

"I have no idea what you are talking about."

That really doesn't surprise me.

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Shalbatana

What I would really like to see (and if they're smart, they'll do this) is a version that is specifically designed for teaching beginner users the OS. It would be great to have a button that says "show me how to build and install a package), etc.

I tried linux a while back and there's a lot to like, but I can't waste my time researching solutions, especially for things that should be second nature, and not convoluted in an os.

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AFDozerman

Doesn't have to be a "version", maybe just some wizard or video... It worked for windows.

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Renegade Knight

Kick the tires on Edubuntu.

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Renegade Knight

Kick the tires on Edubuntu.

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DoctorX

Give your hand a try for Linux Mint. I recommend the MATE version, but the Cinnamon version is coming along nicely. The KDE version is very close to the look and feel of XP. So that is another one to try and is currently what i use. Dad used Linux mint from version 5 to 10 and he loved it.

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jgottberg

I tried Mint about 4 months ago and thought it was a nice OS. It has a cool marketplace for apps and such and navigation of the OS in general was a breeze. It all fell apart for me though when out of the blue, wired or wireless network access failed to work. I tried a few things suggested in forums but none worked.. Re-installed Mint, was working again and then a week later, same thing. The hardware diags were fine... I put Win7 back on and never an issue again.

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neo1piv14

Hopefully, they've finished the DNS problems that plagued the last couple versions of Ubuntu I downloaded. Performance increases wouldn't kill me either.

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DoctorX

i havent had a problem with dns since 11.10. When they moved to a dns daemon, people like me was confused. There were some minor issues, but since 12.04, I havent had a single dns issue with Kubuntu. My employer on the other hand seems to have issues understanding the concept of dns.

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wumpus

I just checked and it appears that the alternate (debian installer) option is only available on the 12.04LTS images (at least for desktop). This means no software mdRAID installs for current Ubuntu, and I'd much rather have /home mirrored than have a current Ubuntu system and have to deal with unity and spyware.

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whelderwheels613

I had the same issue, but I just downloaded the debian installer for 12.04 and did a release upgrade to get it to 13.04.

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Engelsstaub

A simple Terminal command will disable the Unity shopping lens.

sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping

Also installing KDE or any other UI environment will also get rid of it. This doesn't even need to be done from Terminal. It's Linux. Nobody *has* to deal with Unity and can geek and tweak it with minimal effort.

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whelderwheels613

Haha, exactly. People only have to *deal* with these sorts of things when there isn't an effective method to remove or alter it, so you they don't have to deal with it. People bitch about this and I have to say back is "you chance it if you don't like it", which is exactly what is possible with linux, since its so modular. People who usually complain about this are the kinds of people what expect everything to be done for them.

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pastorbob

Nice for the price. While I haven't tried Ubuntu since 10.04 and then only a short time, I have always found it lacking any time I want to get some real work done. That is true for all versions of Linux that I have tried. I suspect it is because I don't have the time to invest in learning the nuances of the OS and its apps. Like Android, if you want to know how to do anything past the basics, you have to read, read and read some more before you can find the needed answers. Granted, Linux has come light years since I first tried Redhat back in 2001.

Maybe this summer I will give Ubuntu another whirl and see how it compares with my current setups.

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DoctorX

what a sad life you live then. I am not a spring chicken anymore, but i learn all the intricacies of all the os i use, android, etc. It takes me about a day or two to master. I have kids in school, on 24x7 on call for support of a major multinational. And i still have the time with doing all my chores at the house. I actually think that is a copout. If my dad can take the time to learn Linux Mint (he is in his 60s) and windows, anyone can.

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pastorbob

Because I don't choose to spend my time learning a new OS that I don't need that means I live a sad life? Why would I want to learn it? Though I worked as a E.E. for almost thirty years, I no longer do, thus I tend to stick with what works for me and I stay up to date on those tools that I use. And I focus my other learning on my current career that is not in the technology fields, though I do use technology as tools. As for my leisure time, I have so many other more enjoyable things to explore, learn and do. Most of them are not related to computers at all.

I have learned the intricacies of Windows because I use it on seven systems between home and office.

I have learned the intricacies of Android because I use it on two smart phones and two tablets.

I have no desire to switch to and learn the intracacies of an OS that does not support the main program suite (or have an equivalent) that I use for over 50% of my work, for the past seven years.

You state that you are not a spring chicken but you obviously have not yet learned the lessons about making snap judgements and assumptions based on extremely limited info.

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bjoswald

What? You have to learn how to do things in a new OS before you actually use it? OUTRAGE!

You probably had to do the same with DOS/Windows at one point, so why act like it's a problem with Linux and Android?

I don't know about you, but I like learning new things. I like the challenge. I guess if you're a burnt-out old fart that's set in their ways with Windows, more power to you.

Oh, and for the love of fuck, throw away any pretense you have about the "dreaded" Terminal. You DON'T have to use it anymore. Well, not with Ubuntu anyway.

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pastorbob

Yet another mental-midget of the rude and belligerent team heard from.

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Bucket_Monster

Lets face it, software and hardware support for Linux blows. I installed 12.04 and it didn't even recognize my Atheros ethernet port on my motherboard. Apparently my Gigabyte mobo was newer and support wasn't added in 12.04. I suppose maybe later versions have that fixed already.

Problem is, Linux needs much improved support from both hardware and software vendors to be taken seriously. I would not give my grandma Linux, and that's pretty much the standard you're going to have to measure the general public by. Maybe to us techies it's not an issue, the average Joe will most likely pull their hair out in frustration. Not everything just works out of the box (or at all).

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DoctorX

i dont understand the issue here. Windows never works OUT OF THE BOX. You have to download drivers and install them on windows for anything outside basic stuff. I still have to install nic drivers on over half the installs I do. 9 times out of 10, I have 0 problems installing Linux. It could be the version or the flavor you are trying. I use Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and still my favorite, Linux Mint.

As for graphics, If you do not game, you dont even have to install graphic drivers outside the open source ones already present.

Hardware support for a modern Linux distro is lightyears ahead of windows. Sorry, that fud is getting old.

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pastorbob

I agree with you up to a point. You do have to install drivers for Windows at times. But the last three times I upgraded Windows (XP, 7, 8) It took me all of twenty minutes to find and install the couple of drivers that weren't automatically installed by the OS. And 99.9% of the time when you by a device, a Windows driver is included or readily available.

My experiences with Linux have entailed hours of searching for drivers that include, but are not limited to, NICs, wireless adaptors, graphics cards, video cameras, and printers. In some cases I was never able to find drivers because they just didn't exist. And these were common devices from major manufacturers.

However, as I stated above, I haven't tried any flavor of Linux for a couple of years. Perhaps it has improved. I will know I try out the new version of Ubuntu.

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John Pombrio

Nope, you still have to go online and "discover" solutions to the most basic operations. And don't expect HP, say, to have a solution for your printer/scanner/fax combo. Print if you are lucky, the rest is a crapshoot.
No thanks, I have better things to do with my time, like play games!

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DoctorX

Nope. Obviously, you have not tried windows 8.

"And don't expect HP, say, to have a solution for your printer/scanner/fax combo. Print if you are lucky, the rest is a crapshoot"

FUD much? HP has the best LInux compatibility of them all. Yes, all in one hp are supported and work great. In fact, I just acquired a F2210 all in one and plugged in usb and didnt even have to run the wizard to install it. It installed itself. There is support for pretty much any HP printer in linux natively. In fact most printers on the market today run just fine in Linux (although i am talking ubuntu derivatives here).

I also just bought a Brother laser printer and just went to the website and downloaded the linux driver. 5 mins later, I was printing from Kubuntu.

You really need to quit spreading fud that was relevant back in the Vista days. It has absolutely no bearing on modern distros.

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pastorbob

You really like that term, "FUD" don't ya?

I'm running WIndows 8 on three different systems. It took me less than an hour to install and be up and running with all the required drivers. Didn't have to search for a single one.

I've been hearing for twenty years how Linux is going to take over as the dominant OS. Still less than 5% of users have it as their primary OS. Linux always will serve the niche, techie, and specialty markets. But as far as taking over in general, it ain't happening.

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pastorbob

+1

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warptek2010

I'm in the same camp as you guys. Don't get me wrong, I like Ubuntu, and even Mint but just doing basic things like installing video drivers for instance is mind blowing-ly confusing and frustrating.

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DoctorX

what is so confusing? If you are not gaming, you dont have to install anything. But if you do, run a wizard? In fact after you install, there is a notification in the systray to install proprietary drivers, including video drivers. How fucking hard is that? It is a helluva harder to install in windows that linux.

Try a distro that is newer than 5 years old next time.

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AFDozerman

TBH, for someone who isn't used to linux, it is a little confusing. It's all about what OS you have been indoctrinated to. Same issues with people who hate windows8. But I do agree with you, installing drivers and such under the 'buntus is pretty straightforeward.

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j_j_montez

I try out every version at least once. This one is downloading now. 1 hour to go.

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Ryboodle

Wow at the timing. I just got my 12.10 working well and wine updated for windows apps, LWJGL updated to solve sticky key issues, all on a 120 GB ssd, and then they had to go make a new major version... -.-

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Engelsstaub

Dude, I just stick with the LTS-releases.

The last one didn't feature whole disk encryption as the newer ones do but I got all geeky in the alternate installer. At least I won't have to deal with that again. (Seriously: every current major/notable OS has this feature included...except Windows who likes to charge extra for Bit Locker.)

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Techrocket9

Still with the gradients everywhere?

Sigh...

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DeltaFIVEengineer

Jane Silber hasn't a clue as to what she's doing.

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