Turbine, SOE, Blizzard, Others Sued for Patent Infringement
Posted 09/17/09 at 01:00:48 AM by Nathan Grayson
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At first glance, you’d think Paltalk Holdings Inc has a few loose screws rattling around in its head. After all, it recently declared legal war on a who’s-who list of big-name MMO developers: Blizzard (WoW), Turbine (Lord of the Rings Online), SOE (Everquest), NCSoft (Guild Wars, City of Heroes), Jagex (Runescape) – you name it. If you’re on top of the MMO world, Paltalk is trying to knock you down a peg or two. So, why would Paltalk risk getting torn to shreds by some of the fiercest lawyers in the videogame business? Easy – because the company already forced Microsoft to pony up an undisclosed sum with the very same lawsuit.
Paltalk holds a potent pair of patents that basically spell court-ordered doom for any massively multiplayer game publisher. These patents grant Paltalk providence over “sharing data among many connected computers so that all users see the same digital environment.” Sound like any MMO you’ve ever played before? Because it sounds like every MMO we’ve ever played before.
So, will this super team of MMO publishers – forced together by circumstance – be able to overcome Paltalk and its sidekick, Johnny Law? Really, we have no idea. Are there any lawyers in the audience who might be able to give us a more solid answer?
WTF IS THIS ARGUEMENT MAN
Submitted by ready4war on Wed, 09/23/2009 - 2:37pm
WTF IS THIS ARGUEMENT MAN CAN COMPANIES GET ALONG AND STOP THIS BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Submitted by Biceps on Sat, 09/19/2009 - 10:22am
The first of the two patents was from 1997... Everquest 1 came out first.... not to mention Ultima Online, etc.
The second patent was from 2001... and Everyquest was several years before that as well.
Anyway, this whole ridiculous saga just goes to show you that someday idiots will rule the world. I wouldl like to know why Paltalk never managed to put out an MMORPG... know why? That's right, because they don't know anything about games, how to make them, or how to program them.
I personally think it is time to start a petition against this silly lawsuit... how about a Million Gamer March? Send it to congress, to the prez, to the gov't. While it wouldn't change the outcome of this case, it could raise the (sub-human) consciousness of our political leaders and perhaps reduce the number of these types of suits in the future.
It is usually helpful to actually link to the patent in question
Submitted by Urvile on Fri, 09/18/2009 - 6:23am
rather than just posting a tidbit from the abstract. The actual patents are pretty lengthy (assuming they are the exact same two patents as from the Microsoft case), and I'm way to exhausted from driving all night to go through it all, but maybe somebody could look at them and see if they meet the requirements for patentability ( http://www.bitlaw.com/patent/requirements.html ). The two patents in question (or at least all the text, unless you register) at http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5822523/fulltext.html and http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6226686/fulltext.html
Very often in patent cases, the fight comes down to non-obviousness. I can't imagine trying to educate either a judge or a jury on enough computer shit to try to prove that a patent of this nature would have been obvious "to one of ordinary skill in the art" at the time the patents were taken out. Hell,double-clicking is often a concept people have a hard time with. I'm thinking MS didn't like the look of the jury, or got some awful rulings from the judge that essentially hamstrung them, and they didn't want to risk it.
But prior posters are correct in that the prior settlement probably gave Paltalk a big warchest, but counts for ZERO in upcoming cases.
"If I woke up looking like that, I would just run toward the nearest living thing a kill it." - Master Shake
Submitted by charcaroth on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 3:59pm
The patent was purchased by the troll in 2002, but when was it issued? That's the real test for whether it was issued as a valid patent or not. You can blame the US Patent and Trademark Office's patent examiners, but they can hardly be expected to be educated in technical developments as they happen since there's no mechanism for training them in their fields after they get their job. For the most part, any geek reading this site is in a better position to decide whether to issue a software patent than the vast majority of examiners.
Just because a description sounds like something with which you're familiar doesn't mean it applies to every possible situation. A patent issued on "a device that lets a person talk to another person" in 1876 didn't make Elisha Grey a dime, but it made Alexander Graham Bell a fortune because his patent got issued first. A generic description in a patent makes the patent weaker over time, not stronger, despite the recent poor decisions in the federal district court in eastern Texas.
I can believe that a reporter quoted the plaintiff's attorney and thought he'd get an accurate description of the law from him based on the sorry state of modern reporting and fact checking, but that doesn't make the Globe reporter or the attorney any less wrong. If Microsquish settled out of court in the earlier case, there is NO PRECEDENT. There was no ruling by the court. Microsquish probably decided to take a tactical retreat based on available resources. Certainly, there is no persuasive authority to be had in this case that would make it any easier for the plaintiff/troll to win.
Submitted by mesiah on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 8:56pm
You are exactly right, and that was my first thought when I read the article. Microsoft settling out of court has no barring on this case. An out of court settlement brings with it no legal barring, the two parties are agreeing to drop charges in exchange for cold hard cash. When a court is making a decision on whether or not a law has actually been broken, they site legal precedent set in past cases. An out of court settlement does not set a precedent either way. No ruling was made, so there is nothing to go by. But because of the forum shopping, this case will probably be won by the plaintiff, as I said before, we should not be allowed to pick and choose what courts we allow to handle our case in order to tilt the odds in our favor. The people we put in place to uphold our laws are supposed to do so fairly and without bias. Although no human is without bias, Its obvious that some people in our legal system can't seem to keep theirs in check.
Submitted by SuperiorBeing on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 1:39pm
Make it so that patents have to be backed up by an actual product; that way, people can't just say "Oh, well, if anyone makes a flying car, they need to pay me a hundred bucks" It will be very simple to determine when people are infringing on patents, because you can just look at whichever product was there first.
Submitted by bloodgain on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 3:45pm
That would defeat the purpose of patents. Let's say I come up with this great design for a new vehicle feature (not just an idea -- a design), but prototyping it and perfecting it will cost around $500K. Then I take it to Chrysler to sell it to them. Under your system, they can just run with it and build it before I can and the patent (that I funded) belongs to them. Heck, under your system, the first person or company to get one built and marketed would own the patent. Since patents must be made public in order to be fair and useful, simply patenting something would be giving it away.
The problem is not the system, it's the patent office. They keep forgetting that patents are there to protect the public domain and bring out innovation -- that's why patents expire. Furthermore, they keep granting patents for ideas, which are not patentable. Being the first to patent the idea to connect 10 computers together -- not valid. Being the first to invent a network card capable of sharing information and the design and equipment for a ring topology -- valid patent, but only if YOU did it and weren't just the first person to figure out it wasn't patented (making it public domain).
Submitted by mesiah on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 8:46pm
I Have an idea! I will patent ideas! Then, any time anyone has an idea, CHACHING! Even if I'm only owed a penny for every idea, that's billions of dollars a day, and just think of all the law suits! I'm pretty much going to rule the world, and don't even think about stopping me.... or you'll owe me a penny.
Submitted by habuza on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 1:24pm
America has been destroyed. As for playing along w/ big brother? Fok the government. They made this mess. I didn't.
And the patent trolling.. get used to it. It's how the world works now. Bunch of namby pamby self centered greedy little shits.
Obvious patent troll is
Submitted by gendoikari1 on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 11:57am
Obvious patent troll is obvious.
Submitted by Trooper_One on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 11:05am
Another reason why innovation is stiffled.
The USA needs to seriously relook at its patent laws and its judicial system overall.
How the he** can you even
Submitted by fourfinger on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 8:04am
How the he** can you even have a patent for inter connectd computers, next i will have to pay to have a home network
Submitted by SeriousBusiness on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 7:56am
That is just stupid. You guys are right about this being the most vauge patent ever. I also hope the MMO giants team up and counter sue. It would be very interesting to watch something like that unfold. You can mess with gamers man, remember what happened to cooper lawrence when she dogged on Mass Effect without even playing it? Yeah, she'll remember not to do that anymore. Best of luck to these companies.
Submitted by praetor_alpha on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 6:36am
And this is why software patents are a bad idea.
Submitted by LatiosXT on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 7:24am
No, this is people who file patents and don't do crap about them until someone actually makes a product that makes money off of it. Then they get all whiney, want a piece of the pie, and sue.
bull
Submitted by gamefanatic26 on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 5:40am
i hope this dose not happen, their probaly just feeling cocky since the won against microsoft thinking they can take on other large companys. in some other guys comment he said he hopes "they counter sue and burie them" i hope so to since i waited five years to play wow and just started.
Submitted by mls067 on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 5:33am
And people want the government to run our health care. Ok, lets not turn this into a debate over that, I was being facetious! ;-p
Submitted by nicchap on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 5:03am
Everything is difficult these days. Can't even go to the can without permission or an agreement of some sort. Grow up people and play along.
alright. really. How the
Submitted by bikerbub on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 4:30am
alright. really. How the hell did that get through the patent offices. That is so vauge, it encompasses everything from cloud computing to Halo.
Submitted by ExarKun1138 on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 4:02am
My only question is, MMO's have been around and popular for quite some time. So, why has this Paltalk company waited so long before acting? All I can say is, I hope they fail, and those companies counter-sue and put Paltalk under!
Submitted by mesiah on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 8:16pm
The company that patented the technology didn't wait around till now. They had no intention of suing anyone over their patent. A separate holdings firm saw the patent and decided it was easy money, so they purchased the patent with the sole intention of suing others to make money from it. Its pretty despicable if you ask me, and there should be laws in place to prevent this. I say, if a patent changes hands, the new owner can not sue any company who already had products in place before the purchase was made, whether or not the companies product had infringed on the original patent. Any current infringement issues should be taken care of before the sale of a patent. That would stop BS like this dead in its tracks. Although it still would do nothing to stop all of the companies who attempt to patent anything and everything in an attempt to make money through patent suits.
bullshit
Submitted by Yusonice on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 2:24am
That company is damn bullshit!! It owns a patent and dont develop it and aims to make money by sueing other companies which makes an effort to develop a game which everyone enjoys. Whats next? Patent to breathe and sue everyone?
Submitted by Biceps on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 11:16am
So if ya'll don't want a law-suit on your hands, you better pony up.
Submitted by CNussbaum on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 2:20am
This doesn't just sound like every MMO I have ever played it sounds like every multiplayer game I have ever played going all the way back to Doom. For that matter it sounds it sounds like every desktop sharing/colaboration software I have ever used. Even RDP/Windows Terminal Server lets an admin watch a user thus multiple people see the same "environment".
Submitted by mesiah on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 1:22am
This is getting entirely out of hand. Companies are using our patent and legal system to get rich without having to do any real work at the expense of companies who are actually out there providing quality products that people want. This isn't even a company suing to protect their invention. This is a holdings firm, that went shopping for patents that they could use to get rich from by.... suing other companies. Its a patent for a freaking voice communications technology. And to top it off, we let these companies go venue shopping. If this was a murder case the legal system wouldn't let you decide what state you wanted to hold it in, let alone what specific district. I don't see why patent disputes would be any different. The dispute should be handled by a court in one of the districts that the plaintiff or defendant is based, simple as that. This is the kind of corruption that is destroying America, and its about time these politicians that we vote for get off their fat asses, take their hands out of lobbyists pockets, and do something to make this country better, instead of polishing the brass on the titanic like they are now.
Submitted by samduhman on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 3:35am
Agree, Corporations and polititians both are destroying this country and yet we sit on our asses and do nothing.
geeee this gives me hope
Submitted by nekollx on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 8:26am
geeee this gives me hope that my pattent for "the exchange of thoughts, opions, editorial, or information via a text based electric hub" could be recouped on!
------------------------------
Coming soon to Lulu.com --Tokusatsu Heroes--
Five teenagers, one alien ghost, a robot, and the fate of the world.
Submitted by mesiah on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 8:09pm
Tell you what, why dont we merge and share our profits. You can have a portion of my earnings from my patent on oxygen, I plan to sue the pants off of mother nature, that heartless bitch.
Submitted by nekollx on Fri, 09/18/2009 - 8:48am
hummmm my company does like it's oxygen, alright deal.
------------------------------
Coming soon to Lulu.com --Tokusatsu Heroes--
Five teenagers, one alien ghost, a robot, and the fate of the world.
This just isn't right...
Submitted by Kazmosis on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 12:14am
This just isn't right...
Submitted by wolf17 on Wed, 09/16/2009 - 11:21pm
And let me guess where this trial is going to be held... texas? lol.
That patents is so vague it's not even funny, and yet it seriously is a valid pattent? wow is all i can say to that.
"Life is about living, not stressing" - a very smart girl :)
Submitted by Biceps on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 11:18am
Patents are bigger in Texas.
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