The Pirate Bay Verdict: Guilty with Jail Time and 3.6M Fines!

54

Comments

+ Add a Comment
avatar

Rob86

avatar

pcwizmtl

We screwed ourselves over by fighting this in the wrong way.

Now, once again, we look like thieves (or is it idiots?) because we used pathetic excuses to pirate software instead of using P2P for support purposes.

I'm glad I can get any OEM disc for free off the net, for example, if I need to format and reinstall an OS on one of my clients' PC's, and he doesn't have his original OS install disk but does have a certificate of authenticity on his computer, I'm grateful for places like the pirate bay.

I just don't agree with companies that leave you naked because you can't afford to renew a subscription, or as another poster mentionned, paying for a game that runs like crap no matter how you tweak or optimize drivers or what not.

 I found that most demos run pretty well, and also found that once I bought the game because the demo was hot,I couldn't even run it without a patch or a driver update. Then the waiting game... WTF?!?

The companies and consumers need to get their ish together fast.

Give consumers something they can trust, and don't spoil that trust. 

So what is the lesson here kiddies?

Support quality, do not support dictorial corporations, do not steal what you can't afford and finally voice your opinions.

MF period.

Or else, just sit there and watch (but don't complain!) when the tish hits the fan.

 

 

avatar

pepper_roni

If money is that tight for you then you should sell that pc and stop paying for internet. You have better things to worry about (like going back to school so you don't have to work at mcdonalds no more).

 

If you dont wanna pay for MS office, get open office, windows? get linux..... photoshop.... get gimp. 

 

Tired of paying for a buggy game. TRY THE DEMO.

 

If you dont wanna pay 50 bucks for a game go rent it for 3 bucks and beat it ina week or two. 

 

Piracy doesnt take a stand against anything.... copy protection gets worse.... prices get higher.... and companies top making games and software for pc.

avatar

Tenhawk

Everyone keeps looking at this along legal or moral lines, and it's not. Forget whether it's theft or not, forget whether it's a freedom of speech thing. I don't care. Look at this from a little place I like to call 'REALITY' people.

 First, The companies in question pay a FORTUNE for DRM systems that do not work, have never worked, and likely will never work. Period Dot. This is INSANITY. This rises the price of their product and creates more pirates.

 Second, These same companies pay a LARGER FORTUNE to *sue* their customer base for millions of dollars that they will NEVER be able to recoup because, frankly, none of the people they sue have that kind of money. This aggravates their clients, resulting in more downloads in 'protest', while the prices of their products rise so that we, the consumer, can pay for their idiotic mismanagment. This is INSANITY.

 Let's face some cold hard facts people. Piracy is here to stay. It has been here in video since the invention of the VCR (which, for the record, these same companies also attempted to have outlawed) and will be here in a myriad of different forms for so long as we exist as a race. The day humans no longer pirate media in whatever form it exists is the day we have evolved into a new species, or been wiped out by a Rock from space. Take your pick.

 What's the lesson to be learned here? For PC game companies it's pretty simple really. Stop paying money to load a game with DRM that doesn't work, at least stop paying so much. I agree that some basic DRM is called for, if only to prevent every single user from copying the game for their pals... but really, all you need is the most basic form. If a gamer is savy enough to download the program that lets them copy the disc, well they'll be able to get through ANY DRM you place. For music a Movie companies it's a little tougher, however. They're in a spot where they have a whole new paradigm tearing into their consumer model and, while it's NOT impacting their profits yet, they're terrified of it. They need to stop shaking in their boots and start taking some chances... try new methods of working with online sources and keep trying until one works.

 Contrary to what these same morons believed, the VCR did NOT sink their buinesses. In fact it was an INCREDIBLE source of revenue for them, even though they couldn't see how that might happen at first. Those days are here again, and the first company to solve this riddle, is gonna blow the doors of the others in terms of pure profit.

 So stop being idiots and get with the program. Otherwise, we'll leave you behind.

 As to this Pirate Bay issue... did it seem REALLY wierd to anyone else that the Judge game large fines and jail time, but did NOT order the site to be shut down? If you don't order the site to be shut down, isn't that a tacit acceptance of it's legality? And if that's the case, what grounds are there for assigning fines or jail time?

avatar

daniel_in_black

Bravo!!!  I absolutely agree with you on several points you brought up, but the main being that there is a lesson the companies have to take out of this.  Being a computer junkie, I'm used to using the internet to find what I want when I want it.  This is the age we live in and this has become the social norm.  The business models that supply media have not caught up with this social norm- you have i-tunes, amazon, emusic, etc- but these are all fractured models at best and do not offer a comprehensive solution to their customers to purchase the music they want (DRM and price tiers for i-tunes and amazon, limited selection for emusic).  When it comes to video, no one comes close to a business model that proposes what you want when you want like a torrent site does.

If there existed a legal model to allowed the selection of a torrent site with a reasonable price structure and no or at least realistic DRM, I'd be all over it like a hobo on a hotdog.  I've not found anything close.  The more these companies fight piracy, the more they're missing out on the bigger picture of satisfying customers by providing a structure to sell them what they want instead of offering what they want then strapping it down in a propriatery format or restricting it with DRM shackles.

As for games, Steam and even EA Link are on the right track, though I feel that most of the folks out there who pirate games probably weren't going to buy them anyway.  I've never pirated a game, but I have certainly thought about it after anxiously awaiting a patch that might actually allow me to play the game I just spent $50 without fear of the next crash (I'm looking at you, Fallout 3).  I want to give money to game companies so they can develop more and better games, but I'm not going to keep loyalty to any game developer if they can't produce quality goods.  No one buys a shirt or shoes or DVD and then puts up with it unraveling, untying or skipping until the manufacturer releases a fix!  Why is gaming so damn different?

avatar

ghot

 What bothers me about this is the fact that the entire internet is a zillion links to "other peoples" stuff.  I guess Wired and Max PC could sue Google for providing links to "their" information, next.  I buy games...but I have to be honest when I say that software companies are the real crooks as far as I'm concerned.  Sure they pay out a couple million to a handful of programmers to code a rerun piece of crap, then press copies at about 50cents a piece, and charge us $50 and then charge to play on their severs.  Ya don't see PC gamers floating in the Med in yachts.  Microsoft is even worse...they add a few useless farts of bling to an OS thn charge double the price of the OS that came before.  They are NOT recouping costs, they are ripping off millions of people and busineses who are now trapped into an OS due to the pressures MS has imposed on app coders.

I root for The Pirate Bay, the prices of software are ridiculously high, far beyond the costs involved in producing them.  The software industry today is a clear cut case of "create a need and fill it".   Noone 'needed' Vista noone 'needs' Windows 7, noone 'needs' GTA 78 or COD 17.  There hasn't been an orginal piece of software written in at least 9 years and the few that are, are swifty stomped into the ground.

Pirating is only what greedy software developers deserve.  Who do you think created Murphys' Law?  The software devs, and the hardware devs in collusion.  These companies have brought piracy on themselves.

ARRGGHH....tie 'em from the yard arm I sez....ARRGGHH!!

You plop down $50 for a game, its buggy and incomplete...then you must pay to play.  Then it gets even worse.....for another $50 you get "the rest of the game" you orginally paid for....what next an MS OS thats sold in chapters  lol?

I still have my store bought copy of Planescape Torment, and ya know what.....it is bug free and was from the get go.  THAT was worth $50.  That game was over 300 HOURS of game play and came ALL on the same set of CD's for one price.  No expansion packs to buy to finish the game I thought I bought a complete version of. What we have now is WoW  Buy the game for $50...its chock full of bugs that require patches and has a ridiculously few hours of game play, which of course forces the comsumer to pay many more $50 increments for another 10-20 hours of game play. Then on top of all that, its coded to appeal to children.  We have $500 Vid cards and get....cartoons.  Don't even get me started on the never ending spew of RTS and FPS games that bring absolutely nothing NEW to the table.  I can count the number of trully orginal, buy once, bug free games on one hand.   

I think people should be suing game and app devs rather than the few brave souls that are battling them via P2P shares.  Hell, doesn't ANYONE see the similarities between MS and the "protection rackets" of the 20's 30's and 40's???   Best Buy, either you force consumers to buy new computers with Vista, or we will crush you!  nVidia either pay us (Intel) licensing fees (protection monies) or we will design motherboards and chipsets that will oust you from the market.

Wake up and smell the coffee people, or very soon a simple Google search is gonna cost you money.

If it wasn't for sites like TPB half the world wouldn't even have an OS, wouldn't have anything more than an overpriced email client.  WE the people....built MS...WE built INTEL....WE built the game companies.....WE built the hardware vendors....and we did it with the money we should have spent on our childrens education.

ROCK ON PIRATE BAY...I for one.....SALUTE YOU   :)

 

 

Take an OS, and edit out all the efficiency, and what you have left is a post-XP Microsoft operating system :)

avatar

nekollx

Actuallywe do need Vista/7. XP is a frigging decade old. Hardware changes and envovles. By your logic we shoudl all jsut have XP for eternity but that means being locked into 32 bit. They needed to take a hammer to the code to give us 64 bit.

 

Are you happy knowing you can have for ALL TIME 2 TB of storage and 4 gb of ram (across system and video cards) forever?

 

Cause XP is limited and sooner or later you need a flesh face 

avatar

kris79

Agreeing with the judges' decision takes a Kierkegaardian leap of faith that simply wasn't borne by the evidence. I read it avidly - you didn't. The prosecution didn't know what a torrent was or how it worked. They simply said that there must be something illegal going on here because somehow, somebody was copying stuff. You know, much the same as you probably do every single day on your computer so that you can see it on your monitor? When the prosecution brought in their star witness, he showed that he was able to copy stuff from pirate bay. When asked if he knew how a bit torrent site worked or even where that supposed copyrighted material came from - he didn't know. No evidence to back it up. Nothing but specious accusations. What makes the Pirate Bay most legally heinous apparently, is that some music tycoon probably isn't getting his bank account stroked as much as he would like. And somebody, by God, has to pay! Don't worry though, dude, the rich have ways to get what they want. That was my only message- only this time, much more simplified.

Nevertheless, you have your dogma, and please continue to be happy with it. I've got to move on and won't be reading this thread anymore. It's simply too tiring to try to repair all the damage done by some public school systems...kris79

avatar

kris79

Normal
0

false
false
false

EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE

MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin-top:0in;
mso-para-margin-right:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;
mso-para-margin-left:0in;
line-height:115%;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}

Cudos to pcwizmtl and ghot for funny and insightful
comments. Velcrow also shows that his parents probably sent him to a private
school. IMO several others on both sides of this issue have made great
arguments both for and against the Pirate Bay. This is a landmark case that
will affect all of us. If you've read my initial comments they said "fight
piracy" and nothing about pirating - only that I believed that some judges
had to be paid off to reach the conclusion that they did from all of the
evidence that I saw - and since there was nothing that was secret about that trial,
I probably saw most of it. I think I was accused of being in favor of piracy,
but since I'm Norwegian, I may have missed some nuances of the English language
that only you Americans are aware of. 
I'm not even particularly fond of Swedes since my name ends in SEN
rather that SON. Scandinavians will understand what I mean. And, you'll not
find anything on my computer that I didn't pay for - unless perhaps you include
my porn collection.

Here's my take on piracy. There are large buildings in every
town in America that include copywrited material. This material is used by hundreds
of thousands of people every day, and most pay exactly - nothing for it. Books,
newspapers, music and movies can be taken from these buildings and read or played in your
homes as many times as you want. These buildings are called libraries.  But if you copy these same works over the
internet, it's called stealing.

The internet contains thousands more great works of writers,
painters , and other artists who poured out their heart and soul into masterpieces
for the rest of humanity. Many are gone now but their works live on because
they are kept alive by us - the users of their great talent.  As much as we admire them, we pay nothing to
them.  They are dead. Yet there are some
that feel that their luck to have selected the right parents allows them to say
that we are stealing from them.

There are great institutions where the masterpieces, and even
not so masterful, works of others are taught, argued about, studied, dissected,
and discussed. The creators rarely see a penny of profit from their labors.
These places are called universities.

Lastly, I do molecular biology for a living. I am paid to
find ways to combat human disease. In the academia medical research community,
we work long hours for little pay, spend much of our lives in a laboratory, and
we freely give our lives scientific work and help to others like us all over
the world so that they can succeed in the event that we may fail. One stone
after another will build a castle.

Contrast that with the jingle writer who writes a really
good piece of music that is so annoying that you can't get it out of your head.
He expects to be paid for it from the moment it's created until the last member
of his family dies in the far distant future. Play it without paying for it is
called stealing.

Chopin, Beethoven, George Harrison wrote some really great
music that we can't listen to unless we pay. Who? They're D.E.A.D.!

I love PC games and the people who make them, and probably have paid for numerous lobster
dinners for PC code writers simply to keep them writing. Consider honoring them
for their labor. Or pay them after pirating their game..

I still haven't said which side I'm on - you can reach your
own conclusions. Cheers...kris79

avatar

SpazzAttack

Dude, it is painfully obvious which side you are on.  All you can do is spout more of your weary class-warfare pabulum.

It never ceases to amaze me the mental gymnastics some people will go through to avoid the obvious.

avatar

kris79

Normal
0

false
false
false

EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE

MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin-top:0in;
mso-para-margin-right:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;
mso-para-margin-left:0in;
line-height:115%;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}

Normal
0

false
false
false

EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE

/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin-top:0in;
mso-para-margin-right:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;
mso-para-margin-left:0in;
line-height:115%;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}

Dude? Does this mean "Master" or "Exalted
one, who is so much smarter than me", because I am.... Nevertheless,
"Fool", you may lick my ass.- 
I think that translates well between Norwegian and American. You're too
stupid to know that we're on the same side - up to a point. Go back to
school.                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            NB. You're dismissed now. Thank
you...kris79

avatar

SpazzAttack

Ah yes, more intelligent discourse... 

You used the word "dude" first in this thread, not me.  If you don't know the meaning of the words you use, then please don't use them.

avatar

SpazzAttack

*yawn*

Sorry pal, you again dance around the issue and never address it.  Your tortured logic seems to operate like this: Since the prosecution did not understand all the technical intricacies of BitTorrent, therefore no copyright infringement was going on.  Thousands of people were “copying stuff” with Pirate Bay--copyrighted stuff that someone else worked their ass off to create that people like you, who mostly sit on your asses, think you can freely “share” with your friends without any compensation to the owners.  Pirate Bay was a major enabler of this activity.  They finally got busted for it.  Please give me a hanky…Boo hoo!

"What makes the Pirate Bay most legally heinous apparently, is that some music tycoon probably isn't getting his bank account stroked as much as he would like. And somebody, by God, has to pay! Don't worry though, dude, the rich have ways to get what they want. That was my only message- only this time, much more simplified."

Since you are unable to rationally defend the thuggish behavior of large-scale, organized, copyright infringement, people of your ilk predictably fall back to the usual class warfare gobbledygook.  By attempting to characterize all copyright holders as “the rich,” and therefore it’s OK to steal from them, you betray your colossal ignorance of how the world works and your complete lack of ethics.   In some cases, there are thousands of everyday people who depend on the income generated by the movies and software that Pirate Bay users steal.

I’m an old veteran in the software business.  And I have already beaten this subject to death in MPC’s Forums. Scroll down to post #15 in that thread I linked to and read my reply to another knuckelhead named C5Loadmaster. Operations like Pirate Bay bankrupt people like me--and I am ceratinly not "the rich."

I am 100% certain that, if you yourself worked for years on a book, a recording, a software project or a film and you saw a torrent for it posted on Pirate Bay, you would be the first to squawk about it.

avatar

Velcrow

I don't think you can completely disregard his statements about the judgement. If a verdict was given with any amount of speculation, then it was probably the wrong verdict to make. This is a blanket statement, no matter what the case. As for piracy specifically, it is generally considered wrong, but laws need to be in place to define which actions legally constitute piracy and associations of it. How responsible are webmasters for content posted on open forums? I'm willing to bet most people find it unfair that a webmaster goes to jail for some random link to an illegal file or site. So where's the line? 5 links? 50 links? 500 links? Or is it simply a matter of the webmaster doing his best to maintain a clean site? These things are not clearly defined, so verdicts like the one we have here are sketchy at best. Did the prosecution actually prove it was their intent to assist illegal activities? Despite what you may think you know, we can not prosecute people based mostly on speculation.

As for protecting people's hard work. The original reason for IP was for people to profit from their work for a certain period of time, then release that work so others could enhance it or use it as inspiration to propigate more works of art. Basically, to further that field in society. An evolution, you might say. So newer works should certainly be protected. Older works released into the wild.

avatar

SpazzAttack

"So where's the line? 5 links? 50 links? 500 links?"

 

This is what is known as the Continium Fallacy or the Argument Of The Beard.

avatar

kris79

Keep the Faith Velcrow. You got it right...kris79

avatar

SpazzAttack

In regards to Pirate Bay we are not talking about some poor innocent web master who had a user post a few links to torrents without his knowledge.  Pirate Bay is a web site dedicated to connecting users to torrents of copyrighted works--thousands of them.  In fact the title tag of their home page says it all:

"<title>Download music, movies, games, software! The Pirate Bay - The world's largest BitTorrent tracker</title>"

Furthermore, their "About" page is even more telling:

"The Pirate Bay was started by the swedish anti copyright organization Piratbyrån in the late 2003, but is since October 2004 separated and run by dedicated individuals. Using the site is free of charge, but since running it costs money, donations are very much appreciated."

So what we have here, in their own words, is a web site, started by an "anti-copyright organization" for downloading "music, movies, games, software." You can spin the technicalities of the case all you want, the bottom line is that Pirate Bay set themselves up to violate copyrights and they got busted for it.

The last sentence of the paragraph I quoted from Pirate Bay's "About" page is just precious: "Using the site is free of charge, but since running it costs money, donations are very much appreciated." Gee whiz, it's too bad Pirate Bay doesn't feel the same way about all the people who spent millions of dollars creating the copyrighted works they help give away for free, huh? They are nothing but a bunch of arrogant and hypocritical assholes!

Get a clue everybody. Why do you think they called themselves Pirate Bay? Duh!

avatar

Velcrow

Obviously you missed my point. The name of the website has little to do with coming to a sound verdict. Your speculating. I could create a website called IWillRobYou.com, but that is hardly enough to show my intent to steal from people. It's only suspicious. That's it. You're letting your emotions override the facts. Being created by an "anti-copyright" organization also does little to help your point. I could be anti-abortion, but that doesn't mean I'll go around fire-bombing abortion clinics. And when they mention downloading "music, movies, games, software" they do not state whether this digital content is copyrighted or not. More speculation. I'm not for stealing other people's property, but I am for accurate judgements. Hell, I'm sure they knew very well what was going on, but unless I can prove it I may as well save my time and money. If you showed up to court with that as your only evidence they would laugh you out of the room.

avatar

SpazzAttack

You sound like a teenager making excuses after being caught plagerizing his homework.  Next, you will probably start telling me that "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."  Maybe you should change your user name from "Velcrow" to "Existential Willie."

As I said before here, it never ceases to amaze me the mental gymnastics some people will go through to avoid the obvious.

avatar

Velcrow

Wow, 'mental gymnastics' seems to be your favorite term. Funny how you will so readily apply it to everyone except yourself.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." Now your just reaching. And yet more proof that you don't actually understand what I am saying. I'm not defending piracy or what the owners of PirateBay MAY have done. I'm defending their legal rights to be innocent until PROVEN guilty of what they HAVE done.

avatar

SpazzAttack

"I'm not defending piracy or what the owners of PirateBay MAY have done.  I'm defending their legal rights to be innocent until PROVEN guilty of what they HAVE done."

Dispite the fig leaf of self-righetousness you attempt to cover yourself with, I must ask, if you are not defending piracy, then why do you continuously rationalize everything on the Pirate Bay web site that screams GUILTY?

avatar

Ghostryderflyby

Anyone who is a PC gamer with any level of common sense, has to see how piracy is destroying our hobby. Game production companies are abandoning producing PC games wholesale, because piracy is so rampant for PC games. They are a business and piracy sure doesn't pay the bills or put food on the tables of the employees. With piracy of PC games rampant, they are going to go where they can make money for their effort, ie console games.

I for one applaud the descision and hope the trend continues. Piracy is theft. Plain and simple and theives piss me off. Get a job and pay for what you own like the rest of us. Anyone who doesn't want to pay for something, doesn't need to have it. You get paid for the work you do and software manufacturers & employees deserve the same.

Besides the moral issues involved though, I don't want to watch my hobby fade into history because some people are too cheap to pay for a game. Since many people obviously don't have the morality to make the right choice on their own, maybe decisions like this will "assist" them in making the right choice and maybe our passion will be saved as a result.

P.S. For those bitching about copy protection, activation and securom, if it wasn't for piracy, those things wouldn't need to exist!

avatar

periodhyphenund...

Your still missing the Real news! Why is Maximum PC not covering this Major Case of Worldwide Violations to the Digital Millenium Copyright Protection Act? Check this Bullshit out!

http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft-used-software-activation-without-a-license-jury-
finds/1239296201

This verdict render's Microsoft's Licensing Agreement with users Null and Void as far as
I can tell..

Why?
Because Microsoft cannot license software to you that lets "MICROSOFT and YOU"
violate a third parties Patents and Copyrights with the mere act of Activating your
Software!

Got that?

Microsoft is calling You and Me a criminal if we use a secure copy of XP that does not
require activation through Microsoft, such as Michael AuYeung's 8 in 1 XP CD which
Microsoft says is an Illegal version of XP, yet Microsoft is forcing YOU to purchase a
version of XP that not only eliminates any idea of security that you had about XP but is
also a copy that forces you to violate the law by the mere act of Activating it, and this
in effect would make its own License NULL AND VOID!

I've had enough of this Crap!

Not only did I pay for a licensed copy of XP when I bought my computer at Best Buy, but
when I complained that the Preinstalled version did not match the Product Activation
Number on the Case, Best Buy charged me $35 to diagnose the problem and refused to give
me my computer back untill I paid the Extortion fee and they never fixed the Problem!

But they did leave a copy of Michael AuYeung's "Illegal" XP CD in the drive
when they gave it back after I paid the Extortion Fee!

Microsoft refused to answer my emails regarding this issue and now "I'M" the
Criminal for using the software that Best Buy gave me? (or sold me depending on how you view this)

Since I paid for a Licensed Copy of XP, I should be allowed to use whichever
"ILLEGAL" version of XP that I choose or you shouldn't be allowed to sell
software Microsoft!

Even if I were to now get a so called "Legitimate" copy of XP that I already
paid for, Microsoft chose this time in history to end support for XP just as the verdict
in this case came to pass!

I mean, How Fucked up is that?

avatar

shellpc

It sounds like Best Buy's the one that screwed you over by using an illegal copy of Windows XP, not MIcrosoft. Take your beef to Best Buy and demand they either give you a legal copy of XP or refund you the cost of the OS.

avatar

I Jedi

You'll never stop them...

avatar

Asterixx

Nunc est bibendum!

I rather think the cockiness of TPB's owners/founders/whatever did not do them any favours, either. Their cockiness showed their contempt for the law, and the lawmakers surely had this on their minds when the verdict was delivered.

avatar

pepper_roni

thats awesome.... they deserve it wether or not there only a domain or not.... we all know there real intentions.... P2P is good piratebay is bad

avatar

Narteck

Great job to Sweden to screwing over the rest of the world with this verdict.  If this verdict does not get smacked down then they have just paved the way for media group to sue ISP’s.  After all according to this verdict the ISP provides the bandwidth for which everyone gets their illegal content from.

 

Sweden could end up forcing ISP’s to monitor the type of traffic on their pipes and order to protect themselves from law suits like this.

 

People should sue Sweden from vehicle hit-and-runs because Sweden provided the roads that they are getting ran over on.

avatar

Biceps

I understand why everyone is so in an uproar over this... it may possibly make it harder for people to steal software online.

I am an avid gamer and regular MaximumPC reader.  While I understand the arguments posed by people pirating software, all of them seem to me to be no more than excuses.  I know someone is going to respond to this comment with a bunch of expletives and insults, and probably no solid, logical and morally-based rebuke.  That's right, y'all.... I am challenging anyone out there to provide a real and strong argument for why it is morally correct to steal software online.  My main points are as follows:

(1) I have purchased each and every game I have played on m PC for the past several years.  While this means (gasp!) I actually have to pay for the games (and other software), it also means that I am one of the few actually compensating PC game publishers for their - often years of - hard work and money spent developing those games.

(2) Most games can be tried out in a demo... for free.  If you don't like the demo, don't buy the game. If there is no demo, don't buy the game.  Try before you buy.  On the same note, if you find out a game has SecureROM, or some other 'invasive' copyright protection software included, and you object to that, don't buy it.  But, if you then download it from Pirate Bay or some other torrent site, guess what?  You are a thief.  Yep. Also, using a service like STEAM, etc, can remove some of the issues surrounding copy protection.

(3) Because of the number of people pirating games is so high (I think Crysis was pirated 25 times for each legitimate copy sold) I have to pay MORE for each game, as the developers have to recoup their losses from each of the people who normally would have bought the game, but instead pirated it for free.  Piracy increases the costs of games for people who are honest enough to go out a pay for them.  So guess what, you pirates are not only stealing from big game companies or software companies, you are also stealing from me and from every other person who paid for that game. Real cool, thanks.

(4) With software other than games, i.e., Photoshop, Corel Draw, sound editing programs, MSOffice, etc, there are free (and often better) programs available legally online... some examples would be GIMP, OpenOffice, etc.

In conclusion, people who pirate games can obfuscate and make as many excuses as they want about how 'unjust' it is that they have to pay to play, it doesn't change the fact that you are stealing, and that what you are doing is wrong.  With theft, there is no grey area...."I'm just kind of stealing" is not a valid argument in my opinion.  And you are stealing from me and every other person who legally purchases games.

Looking forward to some coherent responses.  Peace, y'all.

avatar

mello

Actually, in the realm of IP, there's quite a lot of gray area. And despite the substitution of emotional reasoning for logic and factual analysis, people can disagree in good faith about where the lines are and whether they've been crossed. Ad hominem attacks and moralizing are not particularly helpful.

 

The contention that paying customers suffer increased prices because game companies (for example) pass on the costs of piracy does not make sense to me. Can someone answer why console titles generally cost more, yet there is much less piracy than PC games (I know, they are more difficult to pirate)?
According to the piracy-is-costing-us-lost-revenue theory, one would expect higher PC software prices for this reason. Yet it is the proprietary systems, more difficult to hack and pirate, that are more expensive. Taking into account the rise of cross platform porting of titles, a major increase of markets and potential revenue without the costs of developing from scratch, is it not possible that the market is responding to a perceived value imbalance and are not just a bunch of no-good thieves? or perhaps a gray area in between? I'm suggesting we step away from Sunday school for a moment and examine this situation from a capitalism perspective, where activity is controlled by the market.

 

I do not believe it is credible that these companies are losing much revenue (yes, possibly a little in some cases) due to piracy. I do not believe that most people pirating would otherwise pay for most of those titles
at the $50+ price point. Gaming companies are either actually happy with their business model and revenue or they should try charging less. If they're happy with their pricing model, then it seems they've found
the sweet spot and taken into account the amount of piracy that could otherwise account for real dollars if they charged less money.

 

Someone raised the example of how CDs used to cost much more until there was a major correction (due to lawsuits against major labels and then later due to the internet blowing up the marketplace). This is a great
example (although the music business has had major upheaval since then for a variety of of other reasons). Record companies were overcharging consumers for years just because they could. They were violating the law by doing so and giving pennies on the dollar to the artist - the actual source of the IP. One could argue
they were stealing from the artists and from consumers. Eventually, there was a correction.

 

I'm not saying one side is right and the other wrong when it comes to media companies vs consumers, but clearly there is a battle of values going on (not necessarily right vs. wrong) and it has been 30 years of
struggle and adjustment. People have always had ways of sharing their media and enjoying what they did not explicitly pay for - ever go to a store and enjoy the music playing and walk out without buying anything?
someone had to pay for the license to play that song, and it wasn't you!

avatar

Deanjo

"(3) Because of the number of people pirating games is so high (I think
Crysis was pirated 25 times for each legitimate copy sold) I have to
pay MORE for each game"

 

LMAO!  That has to be the most niave comment I have read.  Seriously do you really buy into "If more people bought it, then it would be cheaper" crap?  We all know how well companies follow that.  Look at the price of gas vs the price of crude.  If anything piracy keeps prices in check, or would you rather still be paying $30 for a music CD and $40 for a DVD?

avatar

SpazzAttack

You cannot compare the reasons for the selling price of a commodity like oil with the reasons for the selling price of intellectual property like a video game.  Outside of simple supply and demand, the markets for each work in completely different ways.

I've been a developer in the software business for a long time.  As a matter of fact, if more people would buy legal copies of games, the companies who produce them would have an incentive for lowering retail prices.  One of the things a company must do in deciding the price point for a product is to project the number of copies they think they can sell and divide the costs of production by that number.  Yes, a company will charge whatever they think the market can bare, but if you have more buyers, then it is much easier to distribute the costs of doing business.

You probably believe these companies should happily work for free to provide you with entertainment, but unfortunately, they have bills to pay also.

avatar

Knockturnal

Last time I looked companies were out to get rich. It didnt matter at what cost( to the people buying their product). If they can charge $40 for a $1 CD they will do it. Stealing is wrong no matter how you look at it. I can't help but think the big companies are only getting what they have been dealing out all these years.

 

The thing I hate is that its killing game companies that might really have some good games because we all know that most people wont stop downlaoding media that they think that wrong them.

 

For the record I will download I copy of something I paid good money for already.(Ex like the guy stated about his XP disc).

avatar

GreenTurtle

I recall paying upwards of $30 for a CD untill Napster came out, then it was less than half that soon after. Coincidence? I think not.

Does that mean the recording industry had been hosing us up till then? Prices certainly didn't go UP after Napster.

avatar

SpazzAttack

False Cause: assuming that because two things happened, the first one caused the second one. (Sequence is not causation.) For example, "Before women got the vote, there were no nuclear weapons." Or, "Every time my brother Bill accompanies me to Fenway Park, the Red Sox are sure to lose."

Essentially, these are arguments that the sun goes down because we've turned on the street lights.

If you paid $30 for a single, domestically-massed-produced CD, then you need to go shopping somewhere else.  You just let yourself get ripped off.  The price was probably slashed because the retailer couldn't couldn't find enough gullible buyers at the inflated price.

Tips for teens: No one is putting a gun to your head to buy a CD.  If you think the price is too high then don't buy it, but that doesn't give you an excuse to go ahead and give yourself a five-finger discount on the CD either.

avatar

GreenTurtle

So your saying that up until this point these companies have not been hosing us? That their prices have not been ridiculous? That they charge an exorbitant amout of money for, often times, a piece of crap because they could?

Who are you to determine that one had no effect on the other.

Besides, I was mearly making an observation.

 

avatar

Asterixx

Nunc est bibendum!

Here's your first (if nobody hits "submit" before I) coherent response:

 You are 100% correct.  Downloading something for free because you don't like the price or conditions of the legal version is theft. I don't like the prospect of paying $105k for a Corvette ZR1. This would not make it OK for me to go steal one. If you can't afford a Corvette, or if you don't think the Corvette is worth $105k because it's got shitty seats, you go without a Corvette. The same should hold true for software and/or entertainment. The internet has anonymized theft to the point people think it's OK simply because nobody can see them stealing, and their chances of being caught are slim. Most people who download a CD or movie wouldn't dare walk into a Best Buy and slip that CD or DVD into their coat.

 News flash, people: No matter how justified you think you are, you ARE stealing, or if making copyright material available to others via file sharing, you are distributing stolen goods. Courts all over the world will find against you, and if they don't based on present laws in their respective countries, the laws will be changed.

 Not to say I've never dowwnloaded a song or movie. I certainly have, and in some cases I felt justified by the fact that the song or movie was either no longer available or not available yet. Don't confuse this with pirating to-be-released hollywood blockbusters, I'm talking obscurity here. Case in point: I loved the TV show Duckman. It was unavailable on DVD and no longer in syndication, so I downloaded all of the episodes. It was my only way to obtain them (and owing to the show's obscurity it was not easy to find them). Then this past January they finally came out on DVD, so like any good fanboy I immediately went to Amazon.ca and bought them. I also loved the TV show Reboot (as any computer geek should). Not available on DVD, so I downloaded it. If and when it comes out on DVD I shall buy it that very day.

The difference here is that although I felt justified downloading those things given as examples, I know in my heart that the act was illegal, and should I ever appear before a judge he would have little pity for my "but it was the only way" argument. I'm not trying to kid anybody.

avatar

nekollx

here's another. Ive priated photoshop, diablo, warcraft (the RTSes), and a few others. And i don't feel a lick of guilt. I bought the games, I have the serial number, in some cases i bought them several times. But my Cd became unusable before i learned how to make ISO backup so yeah i priated the games i legally own so i can play them on the computer i legally built.

avatar

mojosico

its good and bad good if they were really doing bad stuff . bad for all the people that use p2p for non-pirateing ways guess this is one step foward for BIG BROTHER!! looking over our sholders . greed is a double sided sword it hurts the entertainment industry , it hurts the end users , and it hurts the people that use p2p for non legit reasons . so i guess 5 more yrs of everyone not being happy    ??????    just my thought

avatar

Stry8993

Just tweeted this a couple minutes ago, "One Step for Justice, TWO GIANT LEAPS FORWARD IN HOW WE STEAL SH!T WE KNOW ISN'T WORTH PAYING FOR."

 

Half the games I've pirated, have such lackluster Single-Player Components, to be honest, they're an afterthought to my wallet, like they were an afterthought to the developers who cookie-cut and pasted them. Heck, I bought BF2: The Complete Collection off the EA Online Store (Great Speeds by the by, kicked steam in the d!*k), but in order to play the game on 64-Bit Windows Vista Ultimate (not pirated... wierd huh?) I actually had to download a cracked/modded exe with the Long Address whatever its called, and in order to actually run that cracked exe AND to play the game at 1680x1050, I had to use a Mini-Disc Image.

 

Fact of the matter is, piracy saved a game I paid for, and now I actually play it online. 

 

Any guesses where I got these from?    <- Sure people download BF2/BF2142, but its worth my $'s to pay for them. They find me servers, keep my stats, I mean, they're working... well there servers are, so hey. why not right? UT3, I bought, Half-Life and from Steam and all the games I bought.

 

 

But frankly if my gf wants Justin Timberlake, you can suck it up butter cup, because www.torrentz.com here. I. cum. (Yeah, I spelt it that way on purpose, love you Sh!tty Over-priced Non-chalant Yearly Basic Music Gunts, acronym of SONY BMG)

 

*Pardon my language, and I agree with everyone else, except for the dude who said go after them.

avatar

AntiHero

As already stated, "this is a double edged sword." One side has legitimate reasoning, like this comment i'm replying to, and i've actually used before for Battlefield 2, when my CD's broke, oh sure i could have done what i was suggested to do, which was re-buy the damn game, not bloodly likely as a high school student at the time, what did i do to re-install my broken game after a format (i've always used mini discs, i hate swapping cd's to play different games) i torrented, mounted, and away i went. Same for Call of Duty 4, i bought it from steam, took my cd key from the registry, and now have a burned cd from an ISO, and a MINI MDS file. Steams networks go down, i can play my game.

The other side is that people use it for illegal purposes, now i have downloaded movies, downloaded games if there was no demo because i want to try it, most movies i've downloaded and liked, i bought soon after, i use it as a service to determine where my dollar goes. Some people see it as "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free" but i see it as a means of "free samples".

This battle is a confusing one, with no mass agreements, i'll bet that judge's family has used piratebay, hell, he probably has downloaded materials that were attained using p2p.

I don't like Microsoft, I associate with it.

avatar

bloodyserb

Read this today on Boing Boing, and I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

"A more interesting question is whether The Pirate Bay will disappear
now. After the illegal seizure of its servers in 2006, The Pirate Bay
supposedly adopted a distributed architecture with failover servers in
other jurisdictions that were unlikely to cooperate with EU orders. If
The Pirate Bay shuts down, it's certain that something else will spring
up in its wake, of course -- just as The Pirate Bay appeared in the
wake of the closure of other, more "moderate" services.

With each successive takedown, the entertainment industry
forces these services into architectures that are harder to police and
harder to shut down. And with each takedown, the industry creates
martyrs who inspire their users into an ideological opposition to the
entertainment industry, turning them into people who actively dislike
these companies and wish them ill (as opposed to opportunists who
supplemented their legal acquisition of copyrighted materials with
infringing downloads).

It's a race to turn a relatively benign symbiote (the original
Napster, which offered to pay for its downloads if it could get a
license) into vicious, antibiotic resistant bacteria that's dedicated
to their destruction."

 

I sincereley doubt they will ever see a day in jail.

avatar

pseizure2000

All that's going to happen is what was always going to happen. They're going to appeal, and the higher up judges are almost always more fair, and chances are they'll probably do a lot better there

avatar

lancethepants

This atleast makes some of it understandable

 

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http://www.sr.se/Diverse/AppData/Isidor/files/83/6276.pdf

 

Dang, that sucks, I wonder how this will effect their annonomous vpn service they're supposed to come out with

avatar

neo1piv14

Well, fuck. Not looking forward to this crossing the waters. 

avatar

kris79

Two things that you can count on - there are 2 or 3 judges in Sweden that are substantially richer today than they were yesterday. And, the petty change drawers of a couple of billion-dollar music companies have somehow lost a few shekels somewhere... Fight piracy - give their music away for free! Isn't it still legal to give presents or will a few corrupt judges make that illegal too?

avatar

Mikey1091

 If The Pirate Bay gets closed down because of this, a lot of people aregonna be really pissed off at Sweden.  Damn them and their corrupt judges.  Hope they burn in hell(well not really, but still).

 

Cheap Web Hosting from Nova Internet Services!  http://www.novaservices.biz/

avatar

SpazzAttack

Would you two Einsteins (kris97 and Mikey1091) please explain to us poor, uninformed folk how a judge upholding copyright law for the legal copyright holders makes him corrupt?

The owners of Pirate Bay got what they deserved.  A thief is a thief no matter how you try to rationalize it.

avatar

kris79

Don't need to be an Einstein - just be able to reason. Fold in a little common sense and the ability to read. Mix well with the numerous accounts of the trial and how the prosecution was so inept that it had to keep changing its teminology and presumed offenses during the trial because it didn't have a clue what it was prosecuting them for. Add a pinch of life's experience and the ability to read between the lines that comes of it. These are all things that apparently you, sir, lack in your mental recipe. Or perhaps when you wrote the question for me, you were suffering another of your attacks - in which case, I apologize.

And, BTW, in Sweden, there are 3 judges in this type of trial - so I presume that it must have cost the recording media a few more coins to bribe at least two of them to guarantee its winning...kris79

avatar

SpazzAttack

So sorry kris79, but you failed to explain how a judge upholding copyright law for the legal copyright holders makes him corrupt.  All you did was blather on about everything except the facts of the case: Pirate Bay paticipated in lots of copyright infringement.  They got busted for it.  End of discussion.

If the defendents can come up with some technicalities as grounds for an appeal, then more power to them. I for one have not the slightest bit of sympathy for them.

Their server wasn't called "Pirate Bay" for nothing.

Log in to MaximumPC directly or log in using Facebook

Forgot your username or password?
Click here for help.

Login with Facebook
Log in using Facebook to share comments and articles easily with your Facebook feed.