Symantec Called A Scareware Scammer, Slapped With Lawsuit

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markdart

If you are losing business because of SmartScreen please look at this link and help us get the attention of Microsoft!

wwwDOTmixermuseDOTcomSLASHblog

Look at the post:

attention-microsoft-software-vendors

Thanks,
Mark

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markdart

I posted a complaint on Symantec's site shown below. I have found lots of others that I think would like to join a class action law suit so where do I sign up? I have 2 downloads on my business web site. There is only one byte difference between the 2 files. One is not flagged by Norton. The other is flagged, deleted and the user cannot download my installation file. Norton has admitted it does not have a virus. I have scanned it with Norton after disabling Norton and no virus is reported. This is the second time they have done this for the same file. They fixed it the first time. I know I have lost customers because of Norton's business killing arrogance.

This is the second time you guys are killing my business!

I complained about the WE.Reputation.1 BS 3 or 4 years ago and now it is happening again. I noticed others are having the same problem. Who made you guys GOD of the reputation world? This is a clear violation of the law and I am going to talk to my attorney about my legal recourses. I checked the download file - it is not infected with anything but you are deleting it after my customers download it telling them it has a virus. My website is wwwDOTmixermuseDOTcom. I make my living on the web. I can't believe that you folks do not have legal culpability for this.

Here is a later post of mine on the same thread after they told me it was faling due to the install file being a setup.exe file. However,both the files are setup.exe files and only one gets flagged as having the reputation virus.

I tested the file on Vista. I will check it on my Windows 7 machine. My product supports OS' all the way back to Windows 95 so that is is why I used the setup.exe scheme. I use probably one of the most used software installers (more even than Microsoft) Inno Setup because it will work on all those OS'. The output has always been a setup.exe file.

I have two download files. They are identical with the exception of one byte in a configuration file that configures the software for one of two supported products. I just noticed that one of the downloads (call it original) does not get flagged by Norton and the other (call it MKII) does. I pasted the screen below for MKII. I do not think the last time I tried either of these I had the latest explorer on the Vista computer so I did notice with both of these downloads Windows does it flag it as a setup.exe and I have to get through some idiotic screens to actually run it. I will have to figure out how to address this - maybe there is a newer version of Inno that I need to get to repackage it and avoid this Microsoft BS. With regard to Norton - for MKII - these is no way to get around it - it deletes the MKII download. Again - there is one byte difference in both these setup.exe files and it is only a configuration file. By the way a setup.exe can be no more dangerous than the zillion com objects folks are constantly downloading - Windows lets you do this with Explorer’s default security settings.

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pcjunklist

if your stupid enough to think an anti-virus is going to protect you from everything then you deserve to get your computer infected. You need many lines of defense, install MS Emet 2.1 and add any program that can connect to the internet.  Use a different dns like comodo or norton, install a url filter like the one from panda.  Pay money for a good realtime scanner like emsisoft or malwarebytes, these will find more than any anit-virus.  Update and patch the hell out of you computer, don't bitch about getting a virus when you haven't done any updates in 3yrs.  There are plenty of great free AV's out there but the new norton NIS, and the new endpoint 12.1 (uses sonar) are actually really good.  If you actually understand how a computer works try out comodo IS, it's free and has a ton of options.  For a business your better off with microsoft subscription to SCCM with forefront protection much cheaper and does a great job.

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Travatron

Not to mention the program.. Norton Internet Security? I forget the exact name, that is installed with so many other programs, which is basically just adware to sell you Norton. It checks to see if you hace Norton installed, and if not, it says your PC isn't protected and you should buy Norton. Total scareware/adware.

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JCGPZ9

All AV suites give you a red flag of some sort when your subscription expires but Symantec definitely takes the cake. Even when subscribed, their suite has popups and takes more resources compared to other suites out there. I'd rather spend less on ESET or G-Data (which are shown to be better) than shell out $60 - 70 for Symantec's software. The only reason my parents' PC is running NIS 2011 is due to it being complimentary with the Earthlink subscription.

My ESET subscription ended last month so I'm giving MS Security Essentials 2.0 a try and overall it's very light on resources, speedy in scanning and costs nothing. I bet Symantec would be first to bitch if MS decides to ship Security Essentials with their OSes, meanwhile Apple gets to ship an AV with 10.6 without scrutiny.

I've heard good things about Norton 360 but I will stick with ESET, G-DATA or MS SE for the time being.

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jonnyohio

No, because it's an easy fix.  Uninstall.  Install micrrosfts free security essentials.  Problem solved.

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JCGPZ9

I'm actually surprised there was little to no uproar when MS decided to distribute a free AV software and firewall, both of which work quite well. A nice combo would be Comodo Firewall with MS SE but it's a bit more involving for the end user.

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MleB

I resent buying a program and then having to pay an annual 'subscription' to ensure it runs as advertised.

I gave up on paid AV (and other) programs years ago and between excellent freeware alternatives that are out there and a healthy dose of caution, I've not experienced any issues that the paid programs would have resolved.

Cheaper than moving to a Mac, too.

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h e x e n

No need for an AV program here. I wised up to their horse shit a long time ago. Just don't visit dumb sites, download stupid crap or open email attachments of any kind. If you can do that, you have no need for an AV program. Oh yeah, don't be a dirty pirate either. Torrents are pretty much back doors into your machine.

Full reinstalls with images is all I'll ever use. It's fast, fixes everything and gives me a fresh OS.

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jonnyohio

Bad advice.  I've cleaned 3 computers of a virus in the past month and none of those people visited questionable sites.  Only one had download some mp3s from a torrent site, and it was around a dozen songs (a college student).  The others are people who don't even know what a torrent is.  Viruses can come in many ways and if you don't have a defense in place you will eventually get infected.  I would hate to see how many key loggers are installed on your computer Lol?.....why take the chance when you can get some fairly good free av software?  Something is better than nothing...well unless it's avast lol

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computer5450

I had a bug that I coun't get off by using Norton 360 and called them and they wanted more money to get my system out and fine it and get red of it so why do I spend 60.00 for a program and them have to pay more money to them to get someting off my system , WHY then.

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PCDoc

You cannot installa program after you have been infected and hope it takes the infection out. Doesn't work that way with most infections and you'll probably infect the AV suite at the same time. You cannot blame Norton for your mistakes.

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PCDoc

I've been using NIS on my home and work PCs for years upon years and I've never had an issue. I install thousands of copies of the software yearly and those customers see me once a year for the update and never have any major issues.

It's all well and good for users who are not technically challenged to rant and rave about not doing this on the internet or not doing that but you are the minority. Not everyone knows what they are doing and people fall into traps. They should get what's th easiest for them to use, what will protect them just as good, if not better than anything else out there and what they feel secure with. I have 15 years in my business, always using NIS and hardly ever a complaint or a problem.

I think this guy is seeking a cash cow. He did something stupid and now refuses to own up and wants to blame one of those evil corporations.

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davidtuerk

OMFG FINNALY!!! When I go to work. Almost every computer has some kind of norton crap on it and makes my job harder to remove it on every computer, it may be my job to fix computers but norton does not help at all. bring norton down.

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PCDoc

I don't understand why you feel you have to remove it. That doesn't make sense.

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jonnyohio

And because it comes preinstalled as trial ware nagging you to buy it and the client doesn't know what it is and wants you to remove it from their system because it is annoying them?

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PCDoc

That is not at all a fault of Symantec. Ridiculous to even assume it is. Most new PCs (branded) come with a Trial of an AV suite. If you are going to shun one, you must shun them all.

I suspect, that your hatred for the product is based upon, like most people I talk to, outdated and irrelevant information at best and made up lies at normalcy.

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NineteenEleven

because it is an inferior resource hog?

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PCDoc

I see so many techs in this business who's information is severely outdated. I don't understand how they survive.

See the answer I gave the previous misinformed user.

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Typo91

Also I want to add that going with the biggest, most popular AV suite is exactly the one the Virus writers are writing their virus to beat.

Personally I dont run AV.  I am all for a stop check once in a while, however its not like your computer is putting its E-Peen inside every computer on the interwebs.  Update your software, do not download from sites that you do not trust.  Do not lose yourself in porn sites no one has ever heard of! 

Best advice ever, download yourself a good HOSTS file, goggle "hosts file" and get the one from MVPS or something like that, thats the single best thing you can ever do for your computer right there.

Suddenly Youtube is ad free,  Suddenly banners and poppups are very very rare.  Suddenly that PC DOCTOR 2000 Rape your computerware doesn't even show up on your computer while all your buddies got it.

Keep a recent copy of Stinger, and Combo Fix.  Maybe setup your NAS or File server to run AV, but never anything big, just a simple free, self updating file scanner.

All that plus a good router. thats all you need.

Norton is a bunch of sell outs ever since the late 90s. 

Oh, and RELAX, you are running Windows, there's already more crap going on in the back ground then you want to know about.  They find back doors all the time, if the hackers need to use your computer its probably for a good cause anyway ;)

We should all share

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JohnP

Thanks for turning me onto MVPS! I stuck it on my machine to back up Ad Block plus (which does pretty much the same thing I guess). It says that it might slow things down but I have seen no evidence of that. Thanks!

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mrbdawg

Typo 91:
(however its not like your computer is putting its E-Peen inside every computer on the interwebs.)

That's the funniest thing I've read all day.

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Scatter

The reason that I don't like the hosts file way of removing ads and just is that I don't like the big "Can't Display the Webpage" error that takes their place. 

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Typo91

you could modify the host file to point to a blank webpage in instead of nothing. (thats really easy) or you could point it to a solid color too... they way you dont see errors.

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tony2tonez

I liked ghost but havent used it in a long time. For the most part there are alot of other free options of tools that work to fix system stuff. But I bought the new N Internet Security and it runs great. Not a system hog, and the updates and scans are fast and great. MPC gave it great reviews. It does as advertised.

Everyone will bitch and complain about any company or product and others will support it. Get over it and throw the case out. Thats why there is competition so you can buy another product that you might like more. 

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Typo91

I know for a fact Symantec software will log events where it says

"Protected you from attack 3/22/2011 2:30AM"

"Stoped intrusion attempt 3/24/2011 5:43PM"

and some events should really read.....

"Broke your Visual Basic Engine from installing correctly 6/12/2011 4:32PM"

"Deleted EXE file you converted from BAT file because it looks like a script exeicution code 7/23/2011 1:43PM"

"Screwed your WINSOCK from fucntioning correctly after you uninstall 8/11/2011 6:39PM"

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mtjepkema

so true

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jorleans

As a network engineer and security analyst, I find myself recommending NAV or NIS on a regular basis to my coworkers for home and notebook use.

I used to hate NAV, but I used it because I got free copies every year.  However, a few years ago, Symantec actually went out and fixed their product.  Now it works great.  I'd even pay for it.  Their corporate version still sucks donkeys, but the home version is pretty slick.

However, no matter how good a product you make, there is a user that will out-stupid all the logic and intelligence put into security suites.  There is no real fix for users who click "OK" on everything, even if you told them, "Clicking 'OK' on this link will drain your bank account, kick your dog, crash a school bus full of nuns, and switch Hot and Cold in half your faucets."

Yes, there are better products out there, but most people aren't going to spend $50,000 for a Palo Alto box.

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FrancesTheMute

We use Symatec products at work on all our machines (SEP and Altiris) and I have to respectfully disagree with you.  Symantec products are complete garbage and sometimes they won't even support their own products (Altiris Recovery Solution is one....no Windows 7 support, 2+ years after the OS is released, and no plans to support it at all)  We use Credant full disk encryption and SEP clashes with Credant frequently causing crashes and BSoD's and even GSoD's (Green Screen of Death!!!).  Amazingly enough, as soon as SEP is removed all the probems go away.  Their support sucks, always blaming the problems on other programs even when we prove that when we take their crappy software out of the equation we have no problems.

I'm glad we're finally dumping Symatec soon.  I never recommend their products to anyone.  Personally, I feel there is no reason a regular person should ever pay for AV software for their home computer when there are at least 4 decent FREE alternatives available to choose from.

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big_montana

Obviously you did not read Jorleans entire post, or if you did, you missed the key point where he stated the CORPORATE versions still suck. I agree with that part of the equation, as we use Endpoint 11.07 and Altiris 7.1 (which Symantec purchased, they did not develop it themselves). Altiris works fine, but at times it conflicts with an Endpoint definition file, which leads to a BSOD (has happened twice in the 7 years we have been using both products. Endpoint though seems to be a gateway to spyware, as it allows everything onto a user’s system. We are deploying Windows 7 now, but decided against full disk encryption, as just flashing the BIOS would render the system inoperable (not to mention having to decrypt the disk to push patches and updates), so we are using a 3rd party for data encryption only. So, I have to respectively disagree with you as well, with the exception of SEP. The home products work great, you do not notice them running any more, as Symantec fixed the resource hog aspect of them years ago, but I got tires of spending $70 every year so I run MSE instead on my home computers.

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PCDoc

Aye. The people I see getting burned are the ones who have a 'friend' who works in IT who gives them Endpoint for free. It's not made for their multimedia, music stealing, porn watching PCs.

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Scatter

"However, no matter how good a product you make, there is a user that will out-stupid all the logic and intelligence put into security suites.  There is no real fix for users who click "OK" on everything, even if you told them, "Clicking 'OK' on this link will drain your bank account, kick your dog, crash a school bus full of nuns, and switch Hot and Cold in half your faucets."

 

This needed to be quoted for truth. 

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PCDoc

Too funny. I tell my customers all of the time, "You can have the best security system on your house but, if a serial killer knocks on the door and you let him in.,......."

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Kromix

Norton is a paid malware/bloatware :/ hated it ever since they got rid of their issue free version back in 98/99 era

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ApathyCurve

Good.  Sue the crap out of them. 

I'm not one of the conspiracy theorists who maintains that Symantec is in collusion with the virus writers, but they certainly aren't a stand-up business, either.  Their practices are shady and their software, as schmag said below, is pretty worthless.  I put them in the same league as snake-oil salesmen.

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nsvander

I have to say, that I use MSE, but I have friends and relatives that have used Norton, and the one thing that I hate about it is how it holds your system hostage when your subscription runs out.  You are locked out of the internet, and your only options are update your subscription, or uninstall it.  While I realize they are trying to protect  your system what they should do, is bring up a pop up and allow you to use the net once you agree that your system is no longer protected.  This kind of tactic is exactly what the other rogue "AV suites" do, so yes Norton is no different.

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Eoraptor

Let's face it, pretty much ALL of the so called "security suites" out there use scare tactics these days. Why? Because obviously, they work. Saying someone's computer is "unsecured" is technically true, especially with windows OS's (but with all of them in general if they connect to the interwebs) and a great way to drum up sales from paranoid buyers who hear all their friends and coworkers horror stories about a virus run amok.

I can't think of one free or for-pay suite, which doesn't yell and scream about hundreds of vulnerabilities and crow loudly at you to buy it's other bretherent programs to fix all of them. don't confuse "did not offer to sell" with "did not strongly advertise" because they do, including PC Tools. and remember that the preception of that advertisement is different between a trained PC tech who knows better, and the average person who sees "36 high profile vulnerabilities" on their screen and will go looking to pay someone, ANYONE to fix it, and probably run to the company that "found" them in the first place.

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schmag

frankly I find symantec's AV products kinda worthless.

I have seen endpoint protection on a machine fully updated and happy as a clam as the computer is requesting to be taken to the pasture and put down. even when it does detect something it says it removed it but it never does. what good is antivirus when it rarely detects noticable threats that other products detect, and doesn't remove them anyway. I have lost all faith in symantec antivirus products. they have other good products however.

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