Sony Ejects from Optical Disc Drive Market

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OvenMaster

Better stock up on burners from other makers, then.

There's no way I'll live without ODDs. I've never bothered with Blu-Ray, but DVD-R, DVD+RW, and CD-R still get burned and used in my house all the time... for video archiving, data backup, and CD ripping and copying, respectively.

Screw The Cloud. My data, my control.

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QuadraQ

Dead tech? I don't think so!

The bottom line is this: We'll always need a universal format for audio and video that is cheap, transportable, and compatible. While I love my iTunes library, CD's still provide a great value, and are an important format.

Likewise, I love Netflix streaming, but my DVD/Blu-ray collection provides so much more in terms of quality. And I can share it with others.

Perhaps most importantly it's easy to make your own CD, DVD, or Blu-ray to archive and share your own creations. And I don't have to give up ownership to anyone, like youtube.com

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Keith E. Whisman

I just bought a ROKU 2 HD and it's wonderful. I love how well it works on the LCD HDTV's and our old Tube TV's just as good. With the ROKU and my Netflix and HuluPlus accounts I have sworn off cable and DVD/BluRay almost entirely. What I'm trying to say is that as long as I have my home WIFI network along with my 40Mbps Down and 5Mbps Up internet connection I have no use for CD's, DVD's or BluRay disks. 40Mbps internet connection allowed me to put simultaneous streaming netflix and Hulu on all the computers and TV's in my house. The laser disk is dead and streaming internet based entertainment content is king.
On my computers I really only ever use the DVD Drive for burning distros and ISO's to install on either the same computer or others and really with the price of thumb drives being so damn dirt cheap and the wide spread support for booting off USB DVD's will soon go the way of the floppy.

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don2041

I have over 5000 movies and tv shows that are all backed up on dvd,s I don,t trust hard drives for secure storage they fuck up. properly stored dvd,s or cd,s can last for hundreds of years.

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marvinperkins

just as Anna implied I am alarmed that any body able to make $4435 in one month on the internet. have you seen this web page sn.im/24q59h6

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Strangelove_424

I just built my dad a PC in a TJ08e w/ a Sony ODD. There's no stupid white logos on the front and it matches the brushed aluminum. Looks pretty damn slick, if I do say so myself.

That is all.

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Exarkun1138

Sorry, but I'm still "old school" when it comes to Optical Discs. I still prefer the media, and when it comes to music, CD's KILL MP3's any day of the week! The pure sound quality of a CD so outshines just about any "ripped" format, and I still love to collect CD Music.I have over 1100 CD's, and 400 DVD's, so I really dig my "plastic discs" as a medium for my entertainment!

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Engelsstaub

Lossless codecs aside, MP3 (LAME especially) and AAC (Quicktime and Nero) have come a LONG way. For example: The quality of encodes from the iTunes music store (AAC @ 256 Kbps VBR) is perceptually transparent in all but a very few known killer samples.

I challenge you to do a true ABX test to see if you can differentiate between the CD (rip it to FLAC, ALAC, uncompressed WAV or AIFF) and the same song from the iTunes music store. Heck, you could do it with a song downloaded from Amazon (LAME MP3-encoded) and I'd bet you a week's salary you would fail that test any day of your week. ;) I have. Everyone I know has.

The real reason to hold on to those CDs is twofold:

1. Collectibility, as you mentioned. Not a damned thing wrong with that. I think part of the resurgence in vinyl sales is due to the fact that people realize that they like to really hold a physical copy and read liner notes/appreciate album art as we did in the past. CDs didn't really take that experience away, but digital downloads sure did.

2. Future-proofing. A CD or a lossless rip can be re-ripped in the future to whatever new and improved lossy codec comes about. Once you rip a CD to lossy (and no longer possess the CD) that information is gone. Re-encode from lossy-to-lossy and you will begin to hear those differences some people think they could hear before (but 99.999999% of the time could not.)

People make wild claims and all think they have these golden bat ears. I've never ever seen someone pass an ABX test between a CD and an iTunes store encode. (Again, 256 Kbps QT AAC.) I can BARELY hear the difference between an MP3 @ 128 Kbps and the source. If you get into Spotify or sat radio well that's another story. It's a bit easier to hear the difference when these sources stream at 64 Kbps and use unknown encoders.

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limitbreaker

You must have serious hearing issues if you can't hear the difference between 128kbit and a lossless source. 128kbit sounds gawd awful, it feels like I have insects scratching against my ear drums. I can tell the difference between 326kbit and a CD source too but I've worked with sound systems and sounds for a long time and I know what to look for and I know I can hear over 19khz sound still.

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Engelsstaub

My hearing is the norm. (It's always this "you must hear for crap" crap when someone is scientifically honest and not just making random claims on the internet.)

I'm thinking the last 128 Kbps file you listened to was some crap you downloaded off of Limewire years ago that was re-encoded several times.

BTW: at the bitrate you claim to hear some difference between (326??) and CD those frequencies above 19khz are well preserved in modern codecs.

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limitbreaker

If you use very high quality sound systems you can tell a difference, not a big one and im happy with 320kbit quality because the difference is very faint and I know that mp3 preserve the full band of sounds but it's easier to notice a lossy codec from the higher frequencies than it is on the low end frequencies (sub 10khz). If you listened to 128kbit music with my kef towers/bookshelves and high end denon amp you would get annoyed by the low quality sound that is 128kbit.

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Exarkun1138

I've done your test, in fact I've done it many times to prove to people I hear a difference. I can tell between something "ripped", and yes, even between a CD and an iTunes encode. There IS a difference. I have, as you call it, Golden Bat Ears, because my hearing surpasses most human hearing. I hear both above and below the average human range. I can detect dog whistles and hear sub-sonic frequencies.

So yes, I can hear a difference, especially with a good pair of cans, between CD's, vinyl, and ANY encoded medium. Also, it takes a WHOLE helluva lot more space to do a Lossless encoding of any kind compared to MP3's which is why MP3's are used so much. That is where a CD is again superior. The only factor I can see that makes "ripped" a better way to have your music is instant access. Otherwise, I'll stick with CD's or vinyl.

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don2041

Its Batman

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Engelsstaub

You can hear the difference between a CD ripped to FLAC and the CD??

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Exarkun1138

Yes, I can. And I have proven it to my friends who didn't believe me either. I have no way to prove this to you, but I can.

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Engelsstaub

If we knew each other IRL you would never prove it to me. There is no difference to hear. Lossless is lossless, as the name implies. If I rip a CD with a secure ripper (that 2112 CD by Rush in its many pressings is in the Accuraterip database with probably a thousand or more submissions,) and it matches the CRC checksums of other rips submitted, I can faithfully reproduce that CD bit-for-bit on a CD-R.

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limitbreaker

No, it's impossible to hear a difference between flac and CD unless you bring a glitchy lossless codec or a scratchy CD to the table. Now here's the problem... Without optical disks the general public who (like your self) can't hear a difference between 128kbit sound and lossless sound at 16bit 20hz~22khz that is the CD we will be forced down to low quality lossy sound because the suppliers will cut cost to save bandwidth if they know you can't tell the difference anyways.

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Strangelove_424

I'm totally behind you, ideologically. The album art, inserts, printed lyrics, photography, and bit-rate/encoding are reasons CDs should never die. Its a tactile way to appreciate an artist's work, and I think people who download songs are losing out on a huge part of the experience. That being said, if you rip to a lossless, uncompressed format its an exact copy of the information on the CD. Same 1s and 0s. I'm just sayin'.

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Engelsstaub

Depends on the ripper. Almost all rippers (iTunes WMP, etc.) interpolate samples to correct errors. You likely won't hear it but it won't be the same 1s and 0s.

Here's a list of "secure" rippers that I would recommend based on platform:

Windows: EAC, dBpowerAMP, and CUETools.

Macintosh: XLD (about the only really good one.)

There are a few options for Linux that may or may not be halfway decent (IDK.) Everyone I know who uses Linux runs dBpowerAMP or EAC under WINE with great success.

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Ashton2091

+1 for dBpowerAMP. I've been using it for years now. Never had a prob. Also, the multithreaded converting of multiple files at the same time is a nice touch.

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Engelsstaub

XLD does multithreading too...I think they are the only ones. dBpowerAMP is probably the slickest of all of them though. A lot of people will dismiss it because it's not free, but the small asking price is well worth it. It's easy as hell to set up and well-supported by its developer.

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OliverSudden

Ejects. I see what you did there, you sneaky Pete.

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Hey.That_Dude

The only reason there aren't any disk drives in Ultra/Sleek books is that they don't make them thin enough. when you max out at 11 mm height and the thinnest player is ~12.5 mm., do you think that might be difficult to put in? when they shrink it down to 9.5 mm like some of the slim DVD drives then they might try to include them.

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don2041

Just invent floppy disks

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kibbled

Would there be a problem with buying a Sony Blu-ray if you want to use it to watch movies? I haven't purchased a Blu-Ray in a while but I seem to recall they are constantly updating the software. Will that cause a problem with the player or is it taken care of by the Blu-Ray software?

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Engelsstaub

Blu-rays are a serious PitA with their copy-protection schemes. They will continue to be supported on any drive that bears the logo (keep in mind that you have to have the proper setup chain BD>HDMI>compliant monitor.)

If you have an HTPC, or stream via Apple TV, or any other "more open" type of device, there are other *far more convenient* options to view the content of your Blu-Rays without the BS that is Sony's copy-protection ideas.

Google MakeMKV or think SlySoft for a few starters.

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vrmlbasic

Don't I know it. Blu-ray is such a PITA to play on PC.

For some reason, as blu-ray software ages it can't play an increasing number of modern blu-rays. My PowerDVD 9 software can't play several modern discs, despite claiming to be able to do so, so I had to upgrade to 12.

Even with modern software, the discs are still a pain to play. The software has to "load" each bluray, whatever that means, attempt to connect to BD-Live nonsense, and then if it's a blu-ray produced directly by one of Sony's media subsidiaries, you have to suffer through mandatory previews and asinine piracy warnings. Lest I forget, sometimes the bluray has to "update" your player to the latest DRM compliance in order to allow content to be viewed.

DVDs never had to be "loaded" before they could be played. I don't remember ever having to "upgrade my firmware" on a DVD player. DVD playback has numerous free software programs to do so, almost all of which allow direct access to chapters/files and don't force previews to be watched. Thank you Media Player Classic. Sadly there isn't a free blu-ray software player that isn't sketchy, arcane, and works consistently. VLC, I'm looking at you.

Even with the PS3, which is little more than a blu-ray player these days, blu-ray playback is still a hassle.

I'm seriously tempted to acquire a full version of MakeMKV. I used the trial to rip the blurays that I couldn't play with PowerDVD 9. Ripping the blu-rays to MKVs takes some time, but it's a great excuse to test my CPU overclock and it allows my blu-rays to be seen where a blu-ray player isn't available, which is most everywhere I go as blu-ray is such a PITA that it's not widely adopted in my circles.

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Engelsstaub

The reason for the software updates is they keep changing the decryption keys for newer releases. MakeMKV 's BD functionality will remain free for as long as it's in beta. You can find a temporary "registration" key here that is legitimate and will take away the 30 day restriction until it is out of beta.

It took me a while to figure that out myself. (The DVD decryption will always remain free.)

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1053

...bookmark that page for updated keys.

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vrmlbasic

Wow, thanks. Did not know of that.

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limitbreaker

Who cares about the copy protection, so far Blu-Ray is the only source that has high quality audio and remain the best. I have an htpc but continue to use bluerays because of that. I have yet to find a way to rip them with anything more than the core dts file and use full dts-ma. I have a 7000$ sound system and don't use home theater in a box like most people who don't seem to understand the significance of audio quality.
Dts is much nicer in quality than ac3 but they cut off anything above 18khz (I think it was 18khz) to save space with what people in their late 30s can't hear anyway.

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Deanjo

I suppose the regular joe would consider $7000 "high end" but that is very "low end" for a home theater enthusiast. My Bryston SP3 for example costs more then that.

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limitbreaker

There is a level that if you surpass will give you diminishing returns, spending more than 2000$ on the amp is practically useless and my kef speakers sound crystal clear with amazing highs specially. Im using a jbl sub which makes a perfect mix, I love quality but im not crazy either...

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Engelsstaub

MakeMKV is just one. I already put that out there. It will preserve any audio found on the disc including lossless. Cross-platform/works on Windows, Mac, and even Linux if you know what you're doing.

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limitbreaker

I will look for it later, thank you for that information. Problem will still remain that the crap you download with any platform including the illegal ones will at best give you the lossy core dts file.

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Blaze589

Not sure if the BD drive in the PS3 is made by Sony, but mine failed about a month ago. Obviously I'm not pleased. That was the very first optical drive to ever fail on me...

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Peanut Fox

It may be an easy fix for you. 30 or so bucks and just drop it in. You'll need to check to see if like Microsoft Sony requires that the code on the drive has to match the one on the system.

I know when I used to do them for 360s I'd either have to swap the old PCB from the old drive over to the new one (easy), or flash the drive info from the old drive to the newer one. Harder, but I'd mean I didn't have to solder (some drive models solder the PCB on), and I could mix match drives from different 360 revisions.

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limitbreaker

It would be sad to lose optical disks, we already lost block buster and are slowly being forced to pay for bandwidth and download supposedly HD movies in mp4 format with horrendous quality dolby digital 5.1 (or ac3) instead of dts-ma

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don2041

I agree. Where I live we have lost almost all of our rental outlets but internet is very poor here. It seems to go down 10 or so times a day only for a second or 2 but long enough to fuck your down load or stop your stream of video. Also I like to go to my cabin sometimes and it is nice to have something to watch in the evening.there is no net there. also it costs $90 a month for sub par service supplied by Northwest Tel a subsidury of Bell Canada. They bought out all the other ips,s and now have a total monopoly on net access.

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don2041

YaHoo!! I have gone through 3 Sony burners before I went to LG.I will not buy any Sony product again. They have screwed me on warranty,s too many times.

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Engelsstaub

I've an LG external BD-RW and it is awesome. Worth every penny to me. (They're cheaper now than when I bought mine.)

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LatiosXT

What I find funny is Sony fought tooth and nail years ago to get Blu-Ray to be the standard.

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Philly Bob

Yeah, they did the same thing with SACD

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praetor_alpha

Last I bothered to check, the living room blu-ray player != "ODDs for PCs". And I can imagine that the player market is many times larger than the PC ODD one.

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LatiosXT

Here, have a cookie. It'll make you feel better.

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TheMiddleman

Sad. Most laptops (and more than one console) I own have Optiarc drives in them. Never had a problem, other than they seem forever stuck at 8x burn capability. How many years has it been since that spec got bumped? "SuperDrive" my butt.

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SPreston2001

I still use my ODD alot and would hate to see them go away in favor of cloud storage. Matter of fact I just purchased a LG bluray burner for $49.99 and plan on getting plenty of use out of it.

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don2041

Too bad the bd media cost more per disk than the hardware.

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Neufeldt2002

Sad, if everyone drops ODD's what are collectors of music and movies supposed to use? All my music is in .flac from CD source and my movies and shows are in .iso format as well. Of course I have converted most to other formats for easier listening on MP3's and streaming, but I still prefer having a high quality source. AFAIK no legal download site has .flac files, although I would have to research TV and movies.

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chalcopyrite

In addition to HD tracks, some artists have FLAC downloads available from their official sites - Paul McCartney does. I think the ODD will be around for quite some time, honestly.

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Engelsstaub

HD Tracks...but their selection is a bit limited IMO.

CDs aren't going anywhere soon and you'll still be able to buy an ODD well into the future.

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