So Long And Thanks For All The Fish, VGA/DVI

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LatiosXT

I'm confused. People here say that DVI does not support DRM, but it does, if HDCP is to be considered DRM. In fact, I've ran content from my PS3 to my monitor with a DVI<->HDMI cable.

And DRM imposed on what? The video stream? Movies? What? If it's just movies, then I don't get all this pitchforking over it.

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Shalbatana

You are correct about DVI and DRM, I am mistaken. What I should have said was "no provision to provide modern and updated paths for DRM"

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Shalbatana

For "no upgrade path", should we read "no way to significantly pile on more DRM"?

VGA and DVI are both reliable, VGA is no doubt limited in this day and age. However as long as there's [cheap] adapters (that preferably come in the package) to let things work with the older products that still have them, I say let's move on.

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praack

you can see the need for VGA to go by virture of the display quality

however DVI - the only reason it is being supplanted is DRM

Both HDMI and Display Port support the closed loop DRM systems, Display Port is more attractive to OEMs because it has a lower license fee.

DVI does not support the DRM scheme- so of course no one (including Microsoft) want you to use it.

Onthe other hand- how many monitors have HMDI and Display port ? almost all have DVI.

and if you are rocking those stupit monitor speakers you have a brain issue

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Bullwinkle J Moose

HDMI and Displayport are malware

But malware and spyware are not just limited to these 2 hardware specs

For example,

DRM Removal is illegal yet you will find many many links to such articles and software with a google search

Pirated software is also illegal yet you can find such software with very little effort

So the question is, if pirated software and tampering with DRM is illegal, why would pirates add malware such as a virus, worm, spyware etc. to the vast majority of "illegal" software found on the Internet or blatantly provide links to illegal DRM removal techniques?

The answer of course is that they wouldn't

The only people who would prevent you from using a program that circumvents copyrights by adding tracking malware, spyware etc. are the companies who make the software or those associated with them for the sole purpose of clamping down on their illegally gotten gains, reigns of power, and control over the public in general

To show you how rediculous the situation is,I propose implementing my own personal MRM (Media Rights Management) software and hardware that prevents ALL current and future versions of DRM from functioning on any current or future hardware or software and only allows hardware, software and media to operate correctly for the benefit of MY corporation and shereholders!

Suddenly, the Corporations who benefit from current implimentations of DRM are all up in arms with "Their" lawyers and "Their" judges in "Their" Courts

MRM could be used to lock down and prevent from running, any media, software or computer that does not comply with my MRM specifications

Those specifications would include but not be limited to......

Well, you get the idea!

They are all for controlling me but suddenly are totally against the idea of me controlling them

My idea I just outlined is rediculous but for a very good reason!
You would never want ME to control how YOU use YOUR computer, yet you seem to think its fine for a select un-named few to do exactly that to ME!

DRM is malware and YOU have the right to prevent malware from running on YOUR computer

Making malware LEGAL for the benefit of some at the expense of others is what? Extortion? Blackmail?

If I demand that the entire industry lock down the bootloader on ALL future hardware to prevent Microsoft or any other closed source malware from loading and that would only allow open source operating systems that do not restrict what you can use your computer for and have been independently verified to not contain spyware such as registration verification and tracking information, then the age of malware would end

Allowing Companies profit by adding malware to their closed source systems and then claiming "THEY" would be harmed financially if they were to open their sourcecode is a crime on many different levels

When the public is not allowed to catch criminals because the criminals make all of their actions legal and everyone elses actions illegal and the courts go allong with them because the Gov't is a beneficiary to the spyware embedded in those closed source systems, its time for some real change

I personally do not recognize any license, patent, copyright, court order or law that allows a select few to rule over me with impunity with rights that I can never have and neither should YOU

A terrorist by any other name is still a terrorist

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Shalbatana

A cable won't change the battle. If people want to circumnavigate DRM that bad, they'll find a way to tap into the cable, just like they can find a way to get around DRM in software.

Point being, like all DRM it's irrelevant.

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Philippe Lemay

It can't come soon enough if you ask me... I was super excited about the upcoming Rasberry Pi, I was thinking of getting one for all my friends! But really... 90% of the people I know have ancient TVs or monitors that have never heard of HDMI.

The sooner the big-H becomes the universal standard, the better.

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maverick knight

From all the comments I have read, nobody has mention that HDMI supports video and sound in one cable. To be honest, my eyes never noticed the difference between HDMI and DVI. One thing, I needed an extra SPDIF cable for audio. DVI does not allow audio passthrough, I do not know about DisplayPort, though. Yes, I am aware of the SPDIF cable that can be hooked from the mobo to the sound card or video card.

My set up is HDMI from the PC to TV and an optic cable from TV to home theatre. My PS3 is also connected to the TV so this way I can get rid of one or two extra cables.

You can argue all you want about spliting video and audio source is better than all together but reality is that the difference (if any) you would not notice.

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aaronj2906

"To be honest, my eyes never noticed the difference between HDMI and DVI."

Your eyes are correct. A good generic way to think of this:
HDMI = DVI (non analog version) + sound.
***OR***
DVI (dual or single link) = HDMI - sound.

You can convert between them without signal loss with an adapter.
For practical purposes, they are the same tech. Just different physical port connector.

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noobstix

I just switched over to going pure DVI-D almost a year ago when I found a cable to fit my Acer H233H monitor. Before that, I used VGA to DVI since my (R.I.P.) Viewsonic monitor still had a VGA port (along with a DVI-D). To be honest, DVI still looks pretty sharp to me. The only way I would switch to HDMI is if I buy a new video card in 2015 (or later).

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scoop6274

I like the fact that my current Acer 23" monitor has both DVI and VGA on it. I use the DVI for my desktop, and I use the VGA for my old P3 1ghz dual processor file server. I just switch the input on the monitor and viola, the computer I need comes up. Love that simplicity. Plus then I don't need a kvm switch which only switched the monitor because it wouldn't pass my wireless keyboard and mouse through the ps2 port with an USB adapter. For now I will continue to use my old yet wonderfully capable equipment.

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therestorestore

from an OEM standpoint I would guess these are the reasons-

VGA - old, analog, takes up space, time for it to die
DVI - Yes it is digital, but DVI is a large connector with many pins. That's an expense in materials AND space.
DRM - There probably is pressure from TPTB to implement DRM connectivity in all products - hello HDMI and DP.

The new connectors are smaller and smaller is often times less expensive.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

I thought HDMI and Display port were both DRM SPYWARE/MALWARE and DVI/VGA were NON DRM SPYWARE/MALWARE

Are all these posts starting to sound like the propaganda used to get you off of NON DRM copies of XP so that everyone would use the DRM SPYWARE versions of XP, Vista and Windows 7 ?

Or the propaganda used to get everyone to use only expensive Spyware filled pieces of crap software that prevents you from getting any actual work done instead of software that just simply works out of the box without running to the Evilnet to report every little thing we do ?

PLEASE, Correct me if I'm wrong as I wouldn't want to sound like one of the propaganda shills that swarm these forums like little troll versions of DRM MALWARE!

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turbogamer1000

stfu BULLwinkle and cite your sources

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Bullwinkle J Moose

ars technica
Maximum PC
AnandTech
ZDNet
PCWorld
PCMag
Extremetech
Wired
Computerworld
cnet
eweek

oh and I almost forgot....
EVERY other Tech news site on the Internet that covers such topics

Apparently you don't read tech news or haven't figured out how to use Google yet

poor kid

There's a whole world of info out there if you look for it

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turbogamer1000

if you provide links people might start to take you seriously

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Do you really believe that ANYONE takes YOU seriously kid?

All you needed to do was go to Google and Search for>

HDMI DRM

Display Port DRM

Windows DRM

etc

What you will find are hundreds of articles using the above examples and THOUSANDS of articles using different combinations of Malware, Spyware, DRM and other like meaning words with the hardware and software you wish to research

But don't feel bad kid, at this forum it appears that you are not the only one who has failed to figure out how to GOOGLE for info

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themohawkadmin

No offense, but you do realize that HDMI, nor DVI actually have "DRM"? They're just cables really. The copy protection, HDCP, is really only used when playing Blu-ray or running off a Cable/Sat box. And yes, I Googled that. I have an older computer monitor that isn't HDCP-compliant, and it runs off my pc's hdmi port without any problems, except for blu-ray, which just shows a black screen in place of the video frame. I don't know enough about Displayport to comment.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Yes, I realize that the cables themselves do not contain DRM and I do realize that the limited DRM in use on HDMI and displayport is for a limited set of compliance products today but it WILL be expanded upon in the future! Why should I listen to any corporation that continually lies to expand their limitations of the equipment I bought for MY needs (Not Theirs)

I mean, what is your point?

I reserve the right to prevent this malware from entering my systems
If you want spyware and malware, then use it!
I just don't see the point of paying money to limit what I can do with an otherwise open architecture or paying someone to spy on me

If you are not willing to let me restrict what you do on YOUR system and allow me to profit from those restrictions in addition to letting me spy on everything you do, then why would you assume that I should want to let anyone do that to me?

P.S.
I was discussing DRM used with HDMI and displayport
NOT DVI

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turbogamer1000

well now i feel like a moron for not remebereing hdcp is drm...

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dakishimesan

i loved u dvi, but only displayport supports silky-smooth 120hz refresh lcd's... so it's THE FUTURE.

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carage

I just used my DP for the first time today.
R.I.P DVI.
Viva HDMI!

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dwellman

I hate DisplayPort. . only because just about every monitor I get my hands on is HDMI. . . so I have to use an adapter (I'm looking at YOU Lenovo). But it's royalty free, so what you gonna do?

Also: Good Douglas Adams reference.

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winmaster

Wow, and I'm still dreaming of the day when I can upgrade to DVI.

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tri8gman

I wasn't aware there was an important difference between HDMI and DVI in computers, since the adapter cable for HDMI male to DVI male works in both directions and has no signal conversion.

DVI to VGA adapters only work with DVI-I connections, which contain the extra pins to support VGA output. VGA to DVI would require a conversion box, since VGA is analog. A recent Intel Atom box I built has a motherboard that is purely digital - the integrated video adapter has no VGA out (it's a DVI-D port, which doesn't have the few extra pins).

I haven't worked with DisplayPort yet at all to know much about it.

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JohnP

I am pretty sure that HDMI has exactly the same signal flow as DVI-D but just in a different package. Anyone?

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dwellman

Yes.

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Vano

Correct me if I'm wrong, but HDMI does not provide the same "crisp" image as DVI, at least when I connected 36" TV to 430GT card it didn't recognize the native resolution and when I manually switched to it, it still looked fuzzy. With DVI it was plug'n play, no hassle, worked immediately.

P.S.
Correction, TV has VGA port, not DVI, still the above is valid in my case.

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livebriand

VGA at higher resolutions tends to be blurry, and VGA can't be auto-detected (DVI and HDMI, and presumably Displayport, can, being digital). As for HDMI, check your HDMI overscan/underscan options. Typically, you want that set to 0%. This seems to be an issue with ati cards in particular. With my ati laptop connected to my 1920x1080 screen via HDMI, by default, it had a black border around it and text was blurry. Setting overscan to 0% made it every bit as clear as DVI.

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austin43

I have my GTX 470 plugged into my TV with HDMI, (via adapter) but still...Perfectly crisp :P

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imagonex

I won't miss either one. I think they are both clunky and awkward to use at times. Bad design for quick swap. Make a connector that's easy snap on/off, I'll take it any day over these. Heck, make a optical fiber connection with nice thin yet durable cable and I'll pay for that right now.

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titan8813

Three of the five monitors in our home have VGA-only input support, so we're due to get phased out anyway. Of the other two, one has VGA/DVI and the other (a TV) has VGA & 2xHDMI.

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livebriand

For me, 2 just have VGA (one's old and dim, and is my second monitor; the other is a good 19" 1280x1024 one from 2006 and is still quite bright and good, and I'm going to be keeping it for a while), one has DVI/VGA/HDMI (my main one, a new 1920x1080 one), and one has DVI/VGA (an older one my dad occasionally uses).

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fallout330

Sad, I just started using DVI for PC to Monitor, over the last 2 years....yeah I know I'm behind, before that it's been VGA for the last 15 years or so.

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Nimrod

I tried connecting a Displayoport to my penis and nothing happened.

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hades_2100

That only happens when the displayport connector is too big for it.

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titan8813

That's because it goes in your butt.

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Nimrod

unfortunately i dont have any unused connections left there. Ied hate to have to unplug something else

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dukeofurl

I understand why VGA is going out, because it's Analog, but DVI, why is it going away? What do we have that is better? HDMI and Display port aren't really any BETTER, they're just other. How are they any better really?

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JohnP

DVI-D IS HDMI, just in another package. For instance, there is a DVI to HDMI adapter that I have a couple of. I donno if the sound gets carried thru it tho...

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Gezzer

Actually on one of my AMD cards that have the on board sound there's only a DVI no HDMI connector, and yes using the DVI to HDMI adapter the sound works. So I guess DVI and HDMI are the same.

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tony2tonez

still running DVI but since im not a pc gamer or have a need for HDMI or Displayport, yet. I will continue to use as such.

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Markitzero

I am a Gamer and I still use DVI on my Main Monitor then on the Second I use a DVI to VGA Converter because the second monitor only has a VGA Part since it is a old LiquidVideo 17" Flat-Panel LCD Monitor and since it was the low end model DVI-D didn't get put in but it still works.

Also I can't afford the Latest monitors even though I wish. My Main is a Asus 20inch WideScreen and it has both VGA and DVI but it can also support all the Resolutions for my Playstation 3 80GB on the DVI.

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dakishimesan

i love articles like this. i will miss dvi, and i will have a little funeral, but still i can't count the number of times i have cursed incessantly while trying to plug in a dvi cord sight-unseen. it's like even if it's all lined up it makes you think it's not bc of the insertion pressure required. yet as the digital alternative to vga, it rocked. no more finely tuning the screen edge alignment -- an ocd person's nightmare.

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livebriand

What about the auto-adjust feature on LCDs?

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Duck Dodgers

Still DVI here. I have a 4 year old 24" Benq that does 1920x1200 and it does the job. Perhaps when I upgrade to 30" in the next few years I'll switch to display port.

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Number Six

I still miss my 24" Sony GDM-W900. Of course, I used the BNC connectors not VGA.

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Gezzer

Wow, now that's old school. Had a BNC monitor which was great, till the connectors started to act up. Lost one color and couldn't get it back no matter what I tried.

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MastaGuy

I don't want to buy a new monitor but I'm building my first computer and luckily I found a GTX 550 Ti with a VGA port. Without it, I'd have to pay $150 after paying $850 for parts

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LenMetallica

You know that you can buy a DVI to VGA adapter for 5 bucks yeah?

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