Serious Sam 3 Developer Has Serious Issues with Windows 8

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QuadraQ

It's interesting because Microsoft has courted game developers with their dominant platform combined with the DirectX library of tools. Yet now that's starting to look like a trap. Let's hope that gaming for Linux gains a foothold, so that we have more options.

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smartguy05

How do I put an icon from the start menu as a shortcut on the desktop? I freaking work in IT and I can't figure it out (ashamed face).

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davelray

Right click an open area of the desktop, choose New Shortcut, browse to the executable, select it etc.

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burntham77

The desktop is still there. I don't see the problem.

What's so bad about the Microsoft App Store approval process? Is it a time issue?

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r3dd4wg

The big picture? Microsoft is going to make a killing on Enterprise apps if everything has to go through their store.

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SimLash

I've been using Win 8 for a little while now and I've had no problem at all installing programs (not apps) that I've gotten from all over the internet. If developers make something that isn't politically correct, it can be installed and it will run on Win 8.

As for apps, who cares? Yes, if you had an app tie-in or an app that was your main nefarious production then it could get more exposure and make you more money, but even some Android apps aren't in Play because carriers block you. You can't even side-load in iOS.

Also, having certification standards has been a good thing for game consoles. Some are more lax than others but those standards make sure that we have something that is what the box says it is, and if the private sector doesn't make standards then some bureaucracy will. Why don't we save the complaints for problems that actually happen instead of imagined future issues.

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Gezzer

I haven't used Win8, and I don't hate it, or the "UI formerly known as metro". The reason I haven't even bothered to try Win8 is because I'm more then happy with Win7, and no one has given me a compelling reason to upgrade. And no "It's the future and you NEED to learn to adapt to it" is not only not a good reason, it's not a reason at all.

What this is about isn't Win8 or the new UI. It's about Microsoft taking away options. Microsoft has always been trying to "leverage" the desktop environment to help it market to users. It's real reason why IE had to be integrated into the OS in Win98, no matter what lame reasons MS gave. Then MS tried to make using a third party browser as difficult as they could. Even an antitrust suit and loss in the EU didn't really stop them from trying to deny users a browser choice as was recently reported. Why? Because if you controlled the browser you controlled the default home page, and the more people viewing the page, the more advertising revenue.
Or remember Microsoft's "push technology" that was going to use cable channels to deliver content to the user. Content that MS would have a level of control over.
Or the fact that both Vista and Win8 have a link to a Games for Windows store, on the off chance a user will buy from them. Even though it pretty much sucks.
Microsoft has always wanted to control how users use the OS to help generate more revenue, but they also needed to have a level of openness to aid in adoption.

And there's a reason so many people are leery of MS having so much control over how we use windows and what software we use. They have an enormous share of the desktop market. There are so many users locked into using windows because of investments of both time and software purchases that it gives MS a massive amount of control and power. So they have a past history of doing whatever they can to control a users experience with the aim of increasing revenue. And they have a new OS which has a default UI where if they don't have total control over how we use windows, will give them a scary level of control by default.

So my question is why doesn't that give everyone a reason to stop, think about it, and then say, "hey.. just a minute here."?

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BadCommand

It's rather disappointing to see the rash of negative comments on a site like MPC. And to be clear, I think MPC has done a rather poor job of making the Win8 strategy clear to its readers. No, I'm not looking for any publication to act as a marketing arm for any company (as a matter of fact, I shun those pubs), but I can't help to wonder just what a mystifying disconnect we seem to have here over the absence of a silly start button.

I've been using MS products since the days of DOS, and then Win3 (as well as unix, IOS and others) and the addition of metro is quite a reasonable and natural progression- especially when I can firsthand see how it can tie into ALL my devices. And possibly that aspect is what is not being delivered on MPC with its inherent pc focus.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

What you're really disappointed by is how the media has failed to roll over and play dead for your employer. The fact that Microsoft has you trolling forums betrays its desperate reach for absolute control.

The Metro interface isn't a natural progression for desktop PCs. It may be great for phones and other toys, butit's counter-intuitive on computers built for actual productivity.

Windows 8 is little more than an ugly shoe jammed in our front door, insisting we buy buy buy from Microsoft and Microsoft alone.

I resent the move to a closed platform. I resent the move to extort software developers. I resent the move to subscription-based software.

Sorry I won't just roll over and play dead for you.

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BadCommand

Nope, sorry I'm retired from the tech industry and it's just me and my 401k and etrade account- but if you know of someone who would find my previous post worthy of putting me on their payroll (MS or otherwise), by all means have them contact me!

And certainly I have a few issues with 8 as well, namely I would have like to seen it come further in consumer friendliness by eliminating the need for the desktop all around. By that I mean I don't want to launch a non metro program, see it flip to desktop, then run that program and finally when I close that program I'm dumped back out to the desktop. MS should have put much more effort into getting not only its own apps, but also other developers on board with the entire metro experience. The flip flopping back and forth is not visually or intuitively pleasing.

And I'm afraid Mr. Ladavac only confirmed my primary issue would most likely persist (in his vision of the future) in that he complains that Croteam, and apparently other developers would prefer to continue to run their own agenda and not develop for metro- because that is precisely the metric that a developer needs to meet in order to be available through the MS Store. Sorry, but I'm no more interested in dropping out to desktop anymore than I was interested in dropping out to DOS in the early years of Windows.

As for the start button- let me see where that app is located- hmmm, is it on the desktop, or is it on the start menu? No wait, I think I saw it on the taskbar, no, maybe it's nested somewhere on the start menu? Oh no, did an icon even ever make it to the gui? Damn, now I'm going to have to go into file explorer and find the directory and create a shortcut... Yeah that interface was so much easier, I'll miss it.

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davelray

Man, Microsoft must have a huge gigantic payroll department if every single person that posts a positive comment about Windows 8 is working for Microsoft. Get real bud. Just because their opinion differs from yours, does not make them a corporate troll.

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someuid

Metro is Microsoft's cattle prod and Windows 8 is a cattle pen.

Windows 9 will be the slaughter house.

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Happy

Thank goodness that there are people out there like Ladavac with the guts to speak out on this important issue. I hope he doesn't lose his job over this but if he does then he's a martyr to the critical cause of freedom when it comes to what programs we can load onto our OWN COMPUTERS!!

This walled garden approach is a nightmare because if this approach becomes the norm then people will have traded freedom for security. We will be slaves and Big Brother will truly rule us.

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Cregan89

Oh my God, Windows RT/8 will be "jailbroken" in a matter of months. If you really want to install an application not approved by MS (which most likely means its illegal btw) then just wait till then.

You can already side load Modern UI apps on Windows RT/8 if you have access to the source code since Microsoft makes the development tools available for free. But of course Valve would never release their game's source code since their Windows 8 hate doesn't actually have anything to do with being a "closed platform" or "walled-garden". It has to do with the fact that they don't want their Steam digital store to have to compete with the Windows Store digital store.

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zepontiff

rofl. Compete? First Windows CAN'T compete with Steam because MS is so braindead when it comes to the games space its laughable. But trying to compete in the Standard Oil way is an entirely different matter.

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Cregan89

You realize that Microsoft is probably the most powerful and successful company in the gaming market right now, right?

Microsoft designs DirectX, the actual GPU API's that companies like Valve use to build their game engines. Its one of the most complex areas of computer and software engineering. They've basically written the book on modern online gaming. And they've designed arguably the best all around gaming platform with the Xbox 360. And also have created some of the most successful game franchises of all time as well (Halo).

Valve is an impressive gaming company as well, but its quite obvious they're just being babies because Microsoft is blocking them out of the distribution market. They have a pretty fair case, but they could have gone about the whole thing a bit better and not come off as a bunch of babies.

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MarioJP

blah blah blah. assumptions assumptions. You know all this means that in the future Valve and like its "friends" are going to have to face competition. Its the way of life. With that being said. If every publisher was to switch to Linux because of the hate of MS. That be the day pc gaming is truly dead and consoles will be my primary choice o gaming cuz i HATE LINUX and the OS that gets Slapped on to Linux Kernel. It is just a freaking mess.

At least Apple works.

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USraging

yes, but can windows 8 blend!

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guntlager

Who cares about the Windows App Store? There didn't use to be one. It did not matter then and it should not matter now.

Think of Windows 8 as an improved Windows 7 with worthless Metro attached that can be for the most part nullified. In that sense Windows 8 is excellent.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

Windows 8 is cool if you have a little touch screen laptop or tablet, and don't use the computer for anything serious.

Otherwise, it's a piece of shit wrapped in a giant, steaming turd.

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jooohn

poop wrapped in poop? Now that's something. I agree though, Metro is novelty at best. Can't blame 'em for trying something different, though.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

"To be clear, Windows 8 doesn't prevent users from installing programs of their desire, they just won't appear in the main interface."

No, that would be the announced plan for Windows 9. In Windows 9, Microsoft will demand a percentage of all sales from software developers looking to use their platform. No software will be purchased outside the Windows store at that point. Windows will no longer be an open platform for developers.

Between that and the new subscription models they are rolling out, I'll be Windows-free in a couple years, I well imagine.

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dsellens

I have played with Windows 8 and there is only 2 things that need to be done to make it usable, but MS doesn't seem inclined to do them.

1) Put the start button back on the main screen. There was absolutely no reason to remove it, put it back.

2) Make it easy to boot directly to the windows desktop. Desktop users don't have touchscreens and probably never will. Holding your arm out to touch a desktop screen would be arm numbing in a matter of minutes. There aren't even a significant number of touchscreens on the market, it will years before they make a significant dent in the user inventory. If and When there are ever metro apps that are of interest, then we can flip back to the tile interface to use them, but until then, desktop users will be spending 99% of their time in the standard desktop screens.

Live with it Microsoft. That is the way it is going to be. Don't make us work around your BS with third party plugins to do what you should be doing.

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anc51699

So what's stopping game developers from releasing games the same way they've always been doing? Why does a game need to be released via the Microsoft Store? Steam works fine in Win8. So does Origin and other similar programs. Install a game from the desktop like we've always done, and a tile is created for it on the start screen automatically. So what if a game doesn't have a live tile?

So what if Microsoft needs to sign off on content in their store? I would prefer that they did this, compared to the Google Play store, where you have a lot of variety, but also malicious apps and tons of useless apps. As long as they aren't as oppressive as Apple is with the certification process, it's not that big of a deal. I'm sure Microsoft would bend over backwards in their certifications to keep major game developers happy, so it makes their store look good.

Honestly, the whining needs to stop!

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Scatter

Because it becomes a pain in the balls to find and then run that program since you can't get a tile for your game on the Metro desktop (unless it was purchased in the Windows store) and there's no Start Menu any more to load it from either.

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anc51699

Legacy apps (Win7 and Older) get tiles added to the start menu automatically after installation, just like Win8 apps. Just not live tiles. The loss of live tiles is not a big deal.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

Honestly, you need to stop. It's not your business Microsoft is putting into jeopardy.

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anc51699

"It's not your business Microsoft is putting into jeopardy."

You're right, Microsoft isn't putting my business into jeopardy. Nor is any other business in jeopardy because of the Win8 Store. The Microsoft Store isn't going to destroy businesses. All it has done so far is inspire the fear of change to be brought out of all Windows users. What Microsoft is asking for in their store is more than reasonable.

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Biceps

anc51699, you are right. Neither Gabe Newell, who built one of the most recognized and innovative gaming companies and software distribution platforms in the world, or Alen Ladavac, CTO who is 'fluent' in about 45 different computer languages, is comfortable with change. They are both complete anti-change ninnies who have no idea how to create a business or market products effectively through new channels. In fact Gabe Newell is so afraid of change, he is looking to make Steam's entire catalog available on Linux, an operating system where no AAA game company has tried to roll out games on before. As I have shown above, your assertion that this is 'fear of change' is incorrect. So, it stands to reason that - perhaps - the claims of people in the industry that this is bad for the PC space may hold some water.

Thinking people realize Windows 8 is pretty clearly an attempt by Microsoft to lock down the development (and the associated revenue) of all software that goes onto Windows 8. In fact it is so blatent, you can be assured there will be anti-trust cases around the world that will address both the storefront and the approval process, and Microsoft will most likely lose those, as they have lost in similar attempts to corner markets in the past.

If I want a walled garden approach to software, I will buy a Mac. I have - up to this point - been a fan of Microsoft specifically because of the open platform and because it is the only OS appropriate for gaming. If those two factors change, I will leave MS in a heartbeat.

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anc51699

You misunderstood me (my fault). When I referred to "Fear of Change", I meant the new start screen, the butt of every negative comment about Windows 8. It was not directed towards the Store.

Buying things from the MS store is completely OPTIONAL for Windows 8. No one is twisting game developers' arms to put their games on the Microsoft Store. They are not forced to, nor do they even need to. Steam will do just fine as they did with Windows 7, so will Origin, Amazon, etc. You can install whatever you want via the desktop, as you could from any previous version of Windows. Nothing is going to change in terms of business with companies like Valve. They won't have to compete with the Microsoft Store until the Microsoft Store becomes more gamer-friendly. Even then, Steam has such a significant market share over the competition that it would take a lot to dethrone them. Win8 certainly does not mean the end for Steam. No matter what Newell or anyone else says.

Microsoft has every right to control what is sold in their store, for the exact same reason why you won't find hardcore pornography for sale in a Toys 'R Us video section. They have every right to limit the content sold in their store to all ages. Can't find what you want in the MS Store? Buy it from another source, simple as that. Nothing is stopping you from downloading Steam, or walking into Best Buy and buying the game on a disk.

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GuNNuP

This is good thing for gaming, all it is going to do is promote use of steam and other services. look at the bright side people!

Im not going to get windows 8 period Skyrim and other hit titles are not going to be on it.

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Dexter243

Start supporting linux problems solved

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rstat1

Newsflash...windows 8 still has a regular desktop, making the store unnecessary.

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Scatter

Which would be fine if you were able to boot to it and if there was a Start menu so you wouldn't have to have 100 icons for all of your programs on the old desktop.

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anc51699

You know there is an "All Apps" menu in the Start Screen, right?

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logicmaster2003

Croteam CTO Alen Ladavac can shove his ugly 8-bit looking Serious Sam games to apple computers

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Nimrod

sorry but fuck you. when was the last time you made a game that looks better than SS? Oh it was never? huh. those games looked fucking great for the record

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Zinc Whiskers

Everything I've installed in Windows 8 gets it's own tiles added to the start screen...usually more shortcuts than I want as well.

I'm not too sure what game developers are complaining about...

Is the Win8 code so drastically different or are they just complaining because they can't sell through the MS Store w/o following the MS format?

Most gamers buy their games thru Steam anyways.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

LOL. I'm sure you've designed your fair share of hit games.

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Cregan89

They're complaining in an attempt to promote Steam, Valve's direct competitor to the Windows Store.

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wolfing

Windows 8 is so full of FAIL

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savage4naves

Always wanted the ability to downvote comments on MaxPC. This is one of those comments.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

Sad they have PR firms trolling forums for damage control.

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Scatter

As is yours.

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savage4naves

The irony indeed.

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Chronologist

For the majority of gamers, we'll still be using desktop mode to launch games. Newell Ladavac are complaining that it's a lengthier process to get their programs onto the Microsoft store, and thus be able to be displayed as a tile on the UI.

Thing is; who actually uses Microsoft store??? I get my games from steam, origin, amazon. Secondly, this screening is nothing new. Apple does this too with the appstore. Having some kind of screening process is actually a good thing. Helps cut down on spam apps and junk flooding online stores.

My only gripe is; wtf is up with the age restrictions? But again, that complaint is negligent because I don't use microsoft store.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

You don't understand where this is heading. Microsoft has already come out with plans regulating ALL software to the Windows store when the next version of the OS comes out. Microsoft is looking to demand a cut from all software used on its platforms.

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Chronologist

Then don't use windows store.

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Jeffredo

Do you understand "all"? In Windows 9 "then don't use windows store" means not installing anything.

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Chronologist

Do you understand economics?
This won't happen. It's not a viable business model at all.

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