Proposed Bill Gives Obama the Power to Shut Down the Internet

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RAMBO

Like him or not, all of you must get more pro active and let your Reps. know

that you will not stand for your rights to be taken away. This proposed act by

chairman Obama is just another example of his Marxism and his known actively spoken out

administration of Marxism. Please don't be blind people, just listen to the speech's that have been

read aloud to all of America. Free speech is and has been abused by them and we must use ours

to take them down and out of office, as they call it not, but power and  control. The Internet as we know it

is one of the best tools if not the best tool to express ones rights and views, any attemped to control it is

just a means to silence those who oppose Obama and his Aministration, the cyper terrorisiom statement is

just a smoke srcreen for Obama's real agenda; {CONTROL}. Please stand up for your rights and stop it!

Remember, if we all standby and watch this, it will only be one of many if not all our freedom's that that will be stripped

away one by one... Long Live America! Home of the Free Land of the Brave and the Cyper World.

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fullur

The government has no authority to do this. If the internet were still DARPANET and owned by the government, I would still think it stupid, but it would be a federal government entity shutting down federal government property.

 

What this bill is talking about is the federal government taking control of private sector entities. There is this little line in the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution that says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." I'd say that pretty clearly states that this Congress and this President have no authority to do 80-90% of the things they do, including passing a bill which gives them any control whatsoever over private businesses.

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Superpicker

You geniuses got tired of freedom and capitolism like the founding fathers envisioned and decided to give socialism/communism a whirl. You elected a communist president and elected even more communists to congress even though the democrat controlled congress had a pre-election positive approval rating of around 7%!!

Now you're suprised when Obama goes after yor freedoms? Like freedom of speech and religion?

You asked for it, you got it.

Enjoy!

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njreyn

Right?  RIGHT?!

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unixfool

Fools Day is 1 April.  The article was posted on the 11th.  :)

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unixfool

I was hoping to see some intelligent conversation about the topic at hand.  Almost 100% of the comments is outright sickening, arguing, and complaining about a particular political party.  It would be nice to be able to read tech articles without people's jaded political views.  The article mentioned nothing about party, but people read wayyy too much into it.  Someone mentioned Fox News...WTH does that have to do with anything??  Same with Bush.  Same with the overwhelming majority or the minority. 

I think the article hints at maybe there being too much government IN GENERAL.  There really is no reason for anyone within the government to have the power to control the internet.  China does that now...we don't need to emulate China in that regard.  The internet is a world resource.  Its a bit hard to be competitive as a country that depends on internet usage when/if the plug is pulled. 

Its actually funny that something that has nothing to do with the government is now appearing to be a government commodity.  Maybe the better way to go about all of this is to not be too dependent upon the internet infrastructure.

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Jims45wow

 The few I skimmed through didn't seem paritisan--But partisanism (being anti-bush, anti-conservative) is the license which both sides of the houses have been using to do their damage. --  Giving the executive a break: The house is where the real power is. This shown by their power to grant greater power to the executive...

Jim

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Carmievg

I've not read all the comments, but I noticed some of them mention the same sort of things that ham radio operators have been known for for years. If I'm not mistaken, ham radio operators got the word out of New Orleans after Katrina. Ham operators are also seen as the first line of communication should the bomb incapacitate our typical communication lines. To even suggest that the president be allowed to do something like this is beyond silly. In the event of national disaster, the interweb would be invaluable for sending comminication to places where lines have been cut or destroyed.

Besides, with it's redundant nature, the interweb wouldn't be shut down for long; Remember 9/11? Nary a pothole on the information superhighway. I think it's all a great deal of hype, to be honest, and I certainly hope that if such a situation were to arise, that the president, whether it be Mr. Obama or Rush Limbaugh, would have enough commn sense to NOT use that kind of power. It would be far more disastrous  in my opinion to try and close down communications.

If it burns, burn it. If it doesn't burn, you don't have it hot enough.

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fullur

Lol that reminds me of John Carry's position on the Iraq invasion during the '04 campaign. "Sure I voted to give him the authority, but I didn't expect him to use it."

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Mikeytron

Geez, doesn't anyone have any brains anymore? Whether it is red light or speed cameras here in Illinois or something like this. How did we last this long without all this stuff? Yes, the world has evolved but the abuse of power is unreal and all in the name of security. Its just like drafting a law for a law for a law...we never enforced or even understood the first one. By the way I am not advocating being unlawful but can't you all see it? We are being herded into a "pen" for "our own good". We simply are not under control as a city, state or nation. Nobody knows where any stimulus or tax dollars are going and they keep asking us for more out of our pockets , yet slap us around and tell us to like it. As a former military man that spent 12 years in the Navy in the late 70's and up until 1988 I can tell you that all of us "then" were fighting for freedoms and the protection of such. Well now whatever gains that were made then, and way before my time, have been eroding, and lately at an alarmingly fast rate. This is sickening. Remember this: Not one regular non elected official ever placed a vote on any law, or bill. Every financial failure we have had is the result of Congrees and the President and all the other elected officials on the state city or local levels. They are to blame. You may say we vote them in and we have the power. Well I am sorry to say you can forget about that. They do what they want and we let them. We had 20% voter turnout in the last election. What we need to do is form a grass roots campaign to route out all these old lifer dogs that do not serve the public. Cut no slack. Until that happens in mass were are doomed. This bill is just one of many. All parties are to blame. Tell me this why should a person have to retire at 65? Yet in Congrees or the Senate they can hang around until death if they desire. What good are they doing for us? They live to get re-elected ay any cost. They faten the wallets of bankers and expand their own stock portfolios whils they talk about taking away social security for the "little people". Our ancestors died for liberty. They didn't want to be herded by a King. What has happened to us?

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Jims45wow

 The Kingdom is marketed through lovely things like social security, and other items we are far too weak and foolish to manage for ourselves, or things that are far more important to be left up to an individuals own decisions. Now they have enough programs in the nosering that almost everyone feels the tug and chooses to avoid the pain. Carrots never really were the issue.

Jim

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lngship

Don't worry be happy. The last eight years under Bush eliminated all of our individual and constutional rights under whaterver real or imagined "national emergency" that the President of the United States would care to declare through an Executive Order. Obama is just doing a bit of clean-up. But again, don't worry. The removal of our freedoms could never happen here in Amerika...  Write your Congressman and Senators and have them defeat it when it comes up (good luck with that!).

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Keith E. Whisman

The Demacrats loved Bush's Police State Mentality. Bush basically did what Clinton tried to do for eight years. Obama is just acting like a Liberal Demacrat. Bush has no excuse for the Patriot act. That was too much. 

Right now we can count on a bunch of Demacratic Senators and most of the Republican Senators to protect our rights and liberties from the Obama administration.

I was hoping Obama would reverse the Patriot act or at least the parts in the Patriot act that make incursions into our Civil Liberties.

I have always believed that by pretty much turning into a police state we basically gave the terrorists the victory they were looking for. They wanted to scare us and it worked. They wanted to prove that we would not be strong enough to withstand an attack like 911 without giving up civil liberties and changing the relationship between the american government and the citizens. The terrorists were successful and it makes me sick.

If we were attaced again it would not be worth giving up our liberties. These are terrorists. You must hold you chin up and say I am not afraid and I will not crawl into a hole in the ground. I am not a victim. I will fight.

HooAh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

W=We

A=Are

R=Ready 

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cjscully

All this current and ex-President bashing is entirely irrelevant as it relates to a bill that has been introduced in congress.

For all you kiddies who did not pay attention in school here is how a bill becomes law:

1.  A piece of legislation is drafted.

2.  The draft is introduced into either the House or the Senate.

3.  The bill is debated, amended, revised or whatever until it passes in both the House AND the Senate.

4.  The final version of the bill that passed both the House and the Senate is sent to the President.

5.  If the President signs it, it becomes law.  If the President does not (vetos it) it does not become law.

6.  It is possible for Congress to override a Presidential veto by a 2/3 vote.  This rarely happens, particularly on controversial legislation.

Now, from what I read the President did not draft this bill.  Therefore all the bickering about the current President or the performance of past Presidents is pretty off the mark.

The real point in question is do you think this bill is a good or a bad thing for the citizens of this country?

Personally I don't.  In my opinion the government has been given too much power already.  We, the voters in this country, have given away civil liberties in the name of security already.  It is very difficult to get them back once you give them up.  Anyone think the Patriot Act is going away?  In my book it should.  As a few people have said, write your congressman about this bill.  Make your opinions known on Capital Hill.  Then if you don't like the way this or some other issue is handled by your Representative or Senator exercise your rights as a citizen and vote for someone else.

The beauty of the Constitution of the United States of America is that it allows us to replace every single member of the house of representatives every 2 years if we, the people, vote to do so.  It allows us to replace our Senators every 6 years if we vote to do so.  It allows us to replace the President every 4 years if we vote to do so.

The sad fact is that if you do not exercise your rights under the consitution then the only person you can REALLY blame for the state of the government is yourself.  Why didn't you do something about it when you had the chance?  For those who take the view that "my one vote doesn't make that much difference" - who says your influcence in the political process is limited to your one vote?  You have influence over people you know.  If you like or don't like a particular candidate tell people!  Some may agree with you and also tell others and your one vote can become hundreds.

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guitronics

 World War 3 was/is the "Cold War". If you think Obama is a defender of the Constitution, which he and all members of congress have taken an oath to defend, I believe you're mistaken.

 

 I hope I'm wrong. Freedom of speech has been expressed more on the Internet than anywhere...and continues to expand. Newspapers have gone digital, my home town of Flint, Michigan has recently went to a 3 day a week print version, the other days are by internet subscription...

 

 What a great way to shut down communication and the expression of opinion! Pull the plug on the 'net.

 

 Just wait until Obama and Congress start to put their 5000% tax on ammunition, and require that all bullets have a built - in "identifier" on them...traceable back to the purchaser.The "Assault Weapons ban" will come back, but this time it will be incredibly sweeping. BTW...anytime I'm assaulted by a weapon, be it a Baseball Bat,Knife, chainsaw or fist....I will be attacked by an "Assault Weapon".

 

      I hope I'm wrong. I doubt I am.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a free country as long as you pay your own way.

 

 

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Zazubovich

Nothing is more grating than reading comments from people who have no idea what they are talking about but are simply barfing up wingnut talking points like obnoxious five year olds.  If Obama is a socialist, Reagan and Bush I were the Soviet Union, with their high tax rates and repeated tax increases on the bottom percentiles where most of us are.

Is Obama magic? No.  Is he perfect?  No.  He just won the election by a huge margin.  Most of what I see him criticized for is really tantrums from people who won't man up and deal with the real world as it is.  Services cost money.  Nothing happens instantly in the real world.  People want to get paid for their work.  Deregulation equals lawlessness resulting in chaos and disaster.  Libertarianism is a fantasy no less than communism and laissez faire capitalism.  Conservatism was tried twice and failed utterly, with both Reagan/Bush and Bush II crashing the economy, shipping jobs overseas, and making life harder for Americans.  All stick and no carrot doesn't work. Fox News is lies.  Limbaugh is a fat Julius Streicher.  Bush and Cheney are war criminals. And if you want to teabag Obama, you should ask Michelle first.

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fullur

Interesting comment. How does cutting taxes on everyone (which Reagan did) raise taxes on the bottom percentiles? Reagan started the longest economic upswing in recorded history. (There may have been longer ones, but if so they were prior to anyone recording those things.) Bush 43 was well on his way to repeating if he could have undone the damage that Nixon and Clinton did by making the GSEs into the beasts that they are, and made his tax cuts permanent.

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Carlidan

 

 I don't know. How did Forrest Gump get elected twice? Oh wait never idiots like you made it happen. Thanks for the eight years of hell. Religious right will be the downfall of our nation. Just wait and see it happen. But still love you. 

“Animals, whom we have made our slaves, we do not like to consider our equal.”

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Keith E. Whisman

Actually if Forest Gump was President Bush then the equally dumb Bubba is Obama.. LOL... Obama can't seem to say anything right without a teleprompter. This sounds alot like Bush. Heck Bush could barely speak with a teleprompter.

As I said befor that there were far better candidates on both sides of the isle. More experienced and knowledgable, tested and proven to be great leaders. Why we got Obama and McCain is beyond me. I still believe Obama made a terrible misstake puting Hillary on his cabinet.

Like another poster stated that we all lost on this last ellection. I'm just glad that we have term limits and our government is self fixing.

It seems like the last three elections gave us the American people terrible choices for presidential candidates. We've been forced to choose between the best of two evils and have lost ever since 2000.

The last time I can think of good candidates in the past 20 years would be Bush 1st and Clinton and Clinton Vs. Bob Dole. Both great candidates. 

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popstop785

What's next? 1984? Equilibrium?

Why would anyone propose to put that kind of power in the hands of stuttering stanley? 

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pcwizmtl

because of the same point I think Carlidan is trying to make... people sit around and do nothing and then complain when the tish hits the fan

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jtimberman

First, its a draft and subject to change. Second, it states:

SEC 18(2): [The President] may declare a cybersecurity emergency and order the limitation or
shutdown of Internet traffic to and from any compromised Federal
Government or United States critical infrastructure information system
or network;

Further, 'critical inrastructure information systems or network' is defined in SEC 23(3):

FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT AND UNITED STATES CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE INFORMATION
SYSTEMS AND NETWORKS- The term ‘Federal Government and United States
critical infrastructure information systems and networks’ includes--
CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(A) Federal Government information systems and networks; andCommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(B)
State, local, and nongovernmental information systems and networks in
the United States designated by the President as critical
infrastructure information systems and networks

 Of course, I don't think the person who has the authority to declare emergency and shut anything down should be the person that determines which systems can be shut down. So contact your senators and let them know your concern about this bill; either the quoted sections above, or the whole thing.

 

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MaxFan

Firstly,  This bill would give POTUS authority to shut down (B) State, local, and nongovernmental information systems and networks in the United States designated by the President as critical infrastructure information systems and networks.  This would include all of the major ISP's as the High Speed Computing act of 1991 terms any Wide Area Network of more than 1,000 nodes a Critical Infrastructure Information system.  This includes Comcast, ATT, Verizon, Windstream, Cox, Time Warner, etc.  so if he "pushes the button" effective communications just went back to CB Radiio and postal letters and newspapers.  By pushing the button he has just gained control of the nations Television transmission capabilities as well.

Secondly as the title suggests you need to look a bit further in the bill.

(a) IN GENERAL- Within 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Commerce shall develop or coordinate and integrate a national licensing, certification, and periodic recertification program for cybersecurity professionals.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

 

(b) MANDATORY LICENSING- Beginning 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, it shall be unlawful for any individual to engage in business in the United States, or to be employed in the United States, as a provider of cybersecurity services to any Federal agency or an information system or network designated by the President, or the President’s designee, as a critical infrastructure information system or network, who is not licensed and certified under the program.

would give POTUS the authority to determine WHO can work in the US or for a company who does business in the US with a corporate representation within the borders of the US via a License and certification scheme.

This bill needs to die and die rapidly.  Call your representatives both senators and congress members and get this bill killed or suffer the agony of slavery and oppression all over again.

The single greatest protection of individual liberty we have against tyranny is an informed and well educated public -Thomas Jefferson

 

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nathan42100

From how I read it, the President can only shut down a network when its compromised, and even then, he can old do it to a Federal Government network (read as Pentagon, White House, things we REALLY don't want people to see) or a CRITICAL US Infrastructure internet, which I'm not sure a standard internet counts for.

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MaxFan

The term Critical Infrastructure Information Systems is already defined.  It was defined for us under George H. W. Bush Senior.  in the High Speed Computing and Communications Act of 1991 as:  "...Any Wide Area Network public or private whose member nodes at any time exceeds one thousand or that carries or is capable of carrying emergency response information..."  

Any wide ranging Internet Service Provider falls into this category due to VoIP communications which are subject to regulation under the e911 service gaurantees.  If they do not carry e911 or are not subject to e911 then if they have more than 1000 subscribers then they are termed Critical Infrastructure Information Systems by the number of nodes they have. 

Don't believe me?  Check out what happened in California quite recently when vandals cut fiber optic cable belonging to ATT.  ATT offered a substantial reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction etc. of the criminals and the fed wants them on Patriot Act violations for attacking a Critical Infrastructure Information System.  I have no doubt that if they are caught they will be given a slap on the wrist, however the penalty for such an attack IS punishable by quite a lot of money and quite a lot more time in federal prison

  

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pcwizmtl

like those torture bills used to be?

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sasquatch42

on the fateful day that the button to shut down the internet needs to be pressed, Chinese h4xx0rz will have already made it useless

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Carlidan

 

 All you Republicans get a life. Stop critizing everything the president does. If Bush did this during his presidency.. you'll be saying it was good for the country. So STFU. Yes, Democrats won. Get over it. You guys are just stupid F***ing idiots. First wait until you hear what the actually proposal is before critizing it.

“Animals, whom we have made our slaves, we do not like to consider our equal.”

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popstop785

No one won.

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pcwizmtl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2c7ZZNcWsA

 

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Keith E. Whisman

I voted for Bush and I voted for Obama. Bush upset me with the Patriot Act and among a great many other things the Bank Bailouts. I was very vocal against Bush with issues that I deemed over zealos and over bearing on the Citizens liberties. The constant waste of money really pissed me off. The constant giving in to liberal pressure that led to more wastefull spending. 

I voted for Obama because I expected that McCain would be just like Bush.

It doesn't really matter what party someone is from if they do things to piss me off I'm going to scream. And you have heard me scream.

I like Obama but his policies are completely different from alot of the things he said that convinced me voting for him was the best thing to do. Perhaps it's the people he is surrounded by. Heck there are Demacrats that don't support alot of what he wants to do. Same thing with Republicans that didn't bend over for Bush whenever he sneezed. 

I still believe that Obama was the best of two evils even though I don't like alot of the extreme bills he has planned. I'm not sorry I voted for him. I'm only sorry that we as Americans only had a choice of Obama or McCain. There were far better candidates on both sides of the isle and I'm disappointed that we had to choose between these two. 

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pcwizmtl

Mcain and Palin were just chosen to ensure Obama and Biden's victories.

really, think about it... 

it's easier to blame a black guy than a white guy isn't it? :O

just look at the prison system

 

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Keith E. Whisman

Actually the Black population in the United States is much smaller than the White Population and a Large percentage of the black population are extremely poor financialy. With hollywoods unremitting glamerizing of the gangster life, alot of young black adults are lured to gangs. They commit crimes and a larger percentage of the black population commits alot of the crime in our cities compared to a the larger white population responsible for a much smaller percentage of crime. 

What I mean is unfortunately that more crime is commited by blacks than whites. It's not racist it's just about money. Education and parents unwillingness to teach their children to do the right thing. To be a productive member of society. And why should they when they see gangs and the criminal life style as being an easier way to live a richer life. What I mean is that they can have more stuff without actually working for it.

I'm not being racist it's just a fact. The numbers don't lie no matter how much I would love them to. We have the same problems with hispanic population contributing to more and more crime and gangs.

So you see that the prisons have more blacks than whites is not racist it's just shows that more whites have an easier life in America than Blacks and Hispanics. Hence less crime by whites and larger percentage of crime by Black and Hispanic populations.

If we could get people off the wellfare system perhaps even stop wellfare we may see more and more blacks and hispanics that would normally be living off the system actually contribute more to it. By necessiby they will get jobs.

If we could be successful with our war on drugs that would go a long way. Alcahol is also a contributor to people commiting crime. They get drunk or high and start seeing committing crimes as good ideas.

I want this country to change because my children are half black. I want my children to grow and contribute to society. 

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SpazzAttack

I'll keep my tax dollars and the O-Bots can keep their CHANGE.

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B5Freak

you got it. Shall we just start refering to this country as the USSA (United Socialist States of America)? Or just wait until we have the One World Government we're rapidly approaching?

"I know what I know because I have to know it, and if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me and I don't let anyone else tell me either."
Michael Garibaldi, Babylon 5, 2259

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pcwizmtl

Cmon guys, I can't believe people still think "the President" actually runs the show...

 "The Obama Deception"

 google it, watch it, and tell me you're still surprised.

Like Bush was smart enough to actually think for himself... LMAO

 

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Geeksquadmyss

Hey remember when everyone voted for Obama because he was gonna change everything, an make the world right?  Hows that working out for everyone?

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Devo85x

If this gets passed then geeks all over the US will have to go through hell!  If this gets passed it will probibly lead the proposition of a LARGE number of bills to limit internet use for everything from P2P to bandwith in general!

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ghot

 Someone should tell Obama that the word is iMpeach  not iNpeach.......what an idiot.  A smarter idea would be to keep highly sensitive govt. defense computers, so far from the internet that they can NOT be attacked.  This should also hold true for less sensitive but even more necessary things like hospitals, utilities, airlines etc.  Sounds to me like Obama doesn't want to be president for very much longer  ^^ I've heard some stupid ideas in my time, but this looks to rank as the grandaddy of all screwups. What's next Obama?   The power to stop the newspapers?

Sensistive cyber systems like govt. defenses, utilities, airlines, trains, hospitals, police and fire dept...networks SHOULD be totally isolated from the public internet.  But the rest...would only be a trammeling on the freedoms of the people.  I'm not sure...but i think there's an ammendant that makes a move like that illegal  :/  Myabe someone should put a copy of the constitution on a USB key for Obama !

If congress manages to actually turn this idiotic bill into law, I hope they will also draft a way for the millions of paying customers to be reimbursed, for their loss of internet.

As I light yet another cigarette, I'm SO glad that I won't be here for the future our own govt. obviously has in store for us!

 

 

Take an OS, and edit out all the efficiency, and what you have left is a post-XP Microsoft operating system :)

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n0t_a_n00b2

I perfectly agree with you.  Import networks should not have internet connection, and very important ones should not even have a wireless network.  Pentegon networks, Whitehouse computers, Missile Silos, and other extremely important networks should be ethernet only.  It is pointless to hook up a missile silo to the internet, so the people running it can go on facebook/twitter.  The government should almost have it's own network, kinda like the internet was originally design as.

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graydiggy

how much money do you think that kind of transfer would cost the government, who will ultimatley take it out of the peoples pockets. and plus that would leave us more vulnerable to a physical attack. if these important government networks were not in the internet then how would we communicate with other government agencies to say, (hey man you need to get ur troops together cause our country is about to get nuked...)

and we dont use wireless networks on any Govt system. im in the U.S Army i know these things. we are not even allowed to us wireless mice and keyboards, or anything that can store anykind of data. only authorized equipment. i cant even plug my iphone into my work comp to charge it, because it has Wi-Fi and it can store data

now granted it would be a great idea if they were separated from the start, but that has other issues. like the government goin into the internet to track down terrorists. did you know that they have benn using World of Warcraft to plan attacks. no lie. myspace, facebook everything. so ultimatly none of what you just said is valid in any kind of way. we are screwed either way.

 oh and one more thing if it was separated then how would i get on the internet to tell you that you are not thinking right.

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dag1992

Yet another reason to become a Libertarian.

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Keith E. Whisman

Palosi wants all guns to be banned, barring that she wants all guns to be registered and a 500% tax on all ammunition. They want to be able to control your ability to protect yourself and your family. Cops only do the investigation after you have been victimized. A woman was raped in a NY City Subway station. With transit employees witnessing the attact the cops arrived but only after a very long wait. She had already been raped numerous times when the cops arrived and the attacker was already gone. The victim sued the city and lost. The judge determined that she was ultimately the only person responsible for her safety. Nobody else could be found liable for her protection. 

The Government now wants to control how we communicate with ourselves and the world around us. They can pull the plug whenever they want. If the government wanted to take over the population and revoke the civil liberties of the citizens then removing our communications and weapons is a great way to do it. They got practice taking citizens guns away from them when the cops and Army went house to house confiscating citizens guns with the threat of death in and around New Orleans weeks after the hurricane hit. They took guns away from citizens making it impossible for them to protect themselves from gangs of killers and rapists that were also going house to house at night to kill and pillage.

This is very scary and everyone should be alarmed. To say the least I'm very sorry I voted for Barrack Obama. 

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n0t_a_n00b2

In Canada, we don't have any guns.  The only people with guns are people with a license, and law enforcement.  So far, its worked out fine.  Look at some of the recent school shootings, the people just went to a shop and picked up a gun.  In fact, gun owners are eight times more likely to have the gun kill a family member than a criminal or intruder. http://books.google.ca/books?id=n9t6bY2Vo_4C&pg=PA306&lpg=PA306&dq=guns+8+times+more+likely+to+kill+family+member&source=bl&ots=sZ4Y5w6fz4&sig=U4pLdASSjVOgS54ZW-GGos6W-g0&hl=en&ei=2SzhSZ164O-dB6D5-KMJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5

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ZTedster

You have no guns because you are subjects to your government and not citizens feared by your government.

Our 2nd Amendment is the very second one for a reason. The First Amendment is so that we can shout to the government when we think it has become a perversion of what the Constitution says it should be. The Second Amendment is to ensure the perverted government cannot revoke our First Amendment (and/or our lives or freedom), and if necessary, to ensure we can UN-pervert the perverted government.

You forfeited that right when your government-media-numbed minds handed over your guns to your perverted government.

The reason we are having increased shooting violences in this nation is because we are becoming morally bankrupt, like any socialist nation. What makes us unique in this situation is that our Constitutional values were so thoroughly embedded in our infrastructure, it was impossible for a perverted government to get our guns away from us before it was able to morally and spiritualy bankrupt us.

If your citizenry was armed to the teeth right now, you can be sure there would be far more shootings like that going on up there from the proportional perspective.

So please stop your little secular religion pontifying, or at the very least, keep it at to your local street corner, as you hold a sex toy in one hand and shake a fist with the other whilst screaming at the passersby. You've already lost your nation. We're trying to keep from losing ours.

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comptech08

and thats why i will never live in Canada, aka America's hat

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n0t_a_n00b2

You mean where our banks don't nead bailouts, and we don't have to worry about kids coming into schools with a gun? 

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comptech08

psh if you lived here you would know our banks dont need bailouts.  The money is just going to the big shots so they can get even more.  Its all a deception

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comptech08

It might be time to start acting on what the constitution says, (or is it the declaration?) says we can do agaisnt a corrupt gov't.  But that would be very hard to do.

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I Jedi

How exactly do you entirely block off another country, unless you censorship the Internet, like China's "Great Firewall"? I'm not too sure I want censorship in America. :/ That's just me, but hell, Americans don't know half their rights. Let alone the one's their loosing.

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