President of the Free Software Foundation Accuses Ubuntu of being “Spyware”

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mjjordan001

Who uses Ubuntu to go shopping online with anyway? and who care's its a business doing a little marketing, not the govt spying on you looking up who knows what..... or are they? hmmmmmmm

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QuadraQ

Stallman is an extremist, so no surprise. That said, he's good for the software world because there is the danger that open software could someday disapear. On the other hand there is room for all types of software.

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jgottberg

As the saying goes... There is no such thing as a free lunch...

On another note; It's funny that all of the Win8 haters that normally spring into action posting on here as soon as something negative about the OS is posted are having a change of heart. Now that the beloved Linux is having some bad press, especially about privacy, the Linux supporters just say "meh... it's ok" too funny.

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whr4usa

dittos... good observations!!

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Danthrax66

When did the Maximum PC user base become replaced by idiotic children? "That guy is a kneckbeard." People far too stupid to understand the importance of privacy.

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whr4usa

privacy isn't important, confidentiality is...there's a huge difference

privacy laws only make us a less-open society and stifle innovation though some "privacy laws" actually protect confidentiality and just "get it right" 'accidentally'

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Bullwinkle J Moose

How ya coming on that spyware Richard?

We Still haven't finished ripping the Malware out of "Windows to Go" either

But, We got it to read external drives while preventing writes in forensic mode and full writes in normal mode though

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Bullwinkle J Moose

8:15 update

Had to rip out the DRM Crap to fix Record "What you hear" on Windows to Go
Got DVD & Blu Ray Recording fixed

May need to call Microsoft on that other malware

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Bullwinkle J Moose

8:42 Update

Microsoft doesn't think there will be an update for what I want to do.....

Maybe I'm explaining it wrong?
----------------------------------------
10:51 Update

Turns out it was much easier and cheaper to add a few GB of RAM to an SD reader, rather than mod all the SD Cards

That way, "Windows to Go" thinks its writing temp files to the boot drive but its just writing to RAM

So I guess it's done

The only thing holding us back now is Microsoft!

What was their moto?

Oh yeah....
Nothing impeeds us like progress

....so how's that spyware doing Richard?

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whr4usa

man, stop trolling

Microsoft malware. uh-huh

...try, Symantec or now, Ubuntu!! haha

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Not malware huh?

Try using your own computer then

not malware, lol

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jgottberg

Right? I think his rig is missing a few screws...

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear this was a user (Bullwinkle) that used to go by Silencer, lol!

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davelray

Now now now, Let's not insult the man. He may be a conspiracy theory nutter, but he's definitely not Silencer. I do wonder who this Richard he keeps talking to is though.

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jgottberg

No disrespect intended but you have to admit, the writing style is similar... The edits to posts and separation of sentences with spaces... Guess I sound like the conspiracy theorist, eh? :)

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Richard Stallman

He's supposed to be famous...

I think he ate Torvalds free lunch or something

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davelray

Ahh lol, thought you were talking to someone on the boards. I'm not sure Richard Stallman reads these boards. You know, since they are supported by advertising etc. lol.

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PhaQue

It's typical of the 21st Century consumer to get something useful for free and complain about it.

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davelray

People wouldn't be happy without something to complain about.

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ApathyCurve

Whatever. Stallman is one of the people who have managed to keep Linux in the closet -- and by doing so, has indirectly helped Microsoft maintain an OS market dominance.

If any Linux distro is going to be a commercial success and get a significant OS market share, it MUST be able to make money. Otherwise the "support" consists of a bunch of angry, scraggly-haired neckbeards with elitist attitudes, (yeah, I said it; just look at the photo before you start to argue).

There's a middle ground here that will help bring Ubuntu and other distros into the mainstream, but I can assure you people like Stallman aren't interested in that middle ground. Instead, they sit in the middle of the floor chanting "FREE IS FREE" and have no more knowledge of market forces than a pet hamster. "Activists" are like that, and Stallman is one of the most extreme, often dipping his toes (and more) into wild-eyed conspiracy theories. There are much better spokesmen for Linux.

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dgrmouse

@ApathyCurve: That's the thing - Linux isn't destined for "commercial success" in the conventional sense. It's a system derived from the work of many who contributed only because their work was guaranteed to remain free. Now, does this necessarily restrict the ability of Linux to become popular? I think not. And I certainly don't see how it casts its existing users in negative light.

That you attack Stallman and free software activists is absurd. Why is their understanding of "market forces" at issue? What's at issue is that they wanted to share software - but they wanted to ensure that the software they shared remained free. Period. I think it was Stallman himself who said that he likes for his for-fee software to make money and his for-free software to remain free. Why does that stance merit criticism? Why must you ridicule him for it? Would end-users really be better served if big corporate industry were allowed to circumvent the GPL?

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furball146

Perhaps Stallman should worry more about getting caught eating toejam and boogers then what individual OS development is doing...

At some point, Linux OSes are going to need to stand up and show that they're no different then OS X or Windows. This is just the first step in changing that image.

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dgrmouse

Here's a guy who has pretty much devoted his life to promotion of free software and positive software ethics, and you're spewing all this caustic hate? Shame on you.

At one point, getting even the basic tools to write programs in anything more advanced than edlin or debug on x86 hobbyist machines meant spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for Borland, MS, Watcom, etc. EVERY program you might want to use cost money - viewing images, searching files, even TCP/IP stacks were for-fee software. Once FSF and GNU hit critical mass (it seemed to me to happen around 1995, when I first started using Linux) everything changed. If you're a computer hobbyist, you owe an awful lot to Stallman. And we haven't even mentioned the FSF's legal support team...

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davelray

Stallman can shove it where the sun don't shine. If you think the FSF is truly a benevolent entity then you've got your head screwed on wrong. About the ONLY thing they've done that's any good is giving programmers that did decide to give their software away, a means to do it and not get ripped off. Otherwise there nothing more than a bunch of socialist nutjobs. Canonical has made the first step to getting more resources for their distribution. They wouldn't have had to do this if more people donated. But since they aren't getting enough money in via donations, they've had to resort to this. People by nature are greedy and selfish. That's why socialism doesn't work kids!

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furball146

Nobody is arguing the accomplishments..but he just needs to stick with subjects he knows about. I can only hope the folks at Canonical give him the high one. Just because the software is free doesn't mean that you do business for free....which is a concept that is completely forign to him.

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abowlofsoda

After reading all the comments on the Windows8 hate for the last couple months- I am extra amused to see the comments on this one.

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Dresh

Yet another reason to had Ubuntu... I'll keep my Gentoo.

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Incognito

Richard Stallman is also against using Gentoo (and a bunch of other Linux distros). He advises against using Gentoo because "Gentoo makes it easy to install a number of nonfree programs through its primary package system." While I agree with Stallman on the Ubuntu Amazon issue, this guy is a little nutty and appears to be against anyone making any profit off of software at all which is completely absurd.

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dgrmouse

@Incognito: You're completely wrong. Suppose I create some awesome software and decide to share it. I decide that I want to share it for free, and I don't want someone else to bundle it up and make money off it in closed systems - I want it to remain free (like liberty). Isn't that reasonable? This is exactly what Stallman is doing, and I don't think it makes him nutty by any means. Quite the contrary, I get upset when more than 50% of all wireless routers illegally use MY software by redistributing it without following MY licenses. I can get sued and lose my internet connection for illegally distributing a single mp3 file, but these guys (formerly including Cisco nee Linksys, Netgear and others) are illegally using my software in commercial products on a daily basis.

Stallman is NOT against people making profit off of software - for many years, it was his primary source of income. Stallman is even happy for you to make money off of the software that he's written - he only wants and expects that you follow the licensing for any software that you use.

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PhaQue

Aww...pooor user who's savvy enough to use Ubuntu but too stupid or lazy to turn off this feature. Gimmie a break. The software is free. They have a feature to turn off the search suggestions. That's enough.

"Spying", or espionage, is the collection of useful information without the subject's knowledge. This is an overblown, sensational claim with little substance.

The sky aint falling. Consumers need to learn to wipe their own asses and be happy that they get some very useful things for free. All the irrelevant crying essentially undercuts the motives of those providing the offer and works a long term harm to all.

Turn off the search suggestions. Wipe your own ass. Simple.

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jonnyohio

My thoughts exactly...freeloaders don't understand that people are putting time in developing Ubuntu....money has to come from somewhere to keep it going, and since obviously their cheap asses won't fork over enough in donations this is the way they chose to go to keep the OS alive. I don't see what is so bad about it given you have the option to turn it off.

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dgrmouse

You and Phaque need to correct your perspectives. Stallman and his GNU have given WAY more to Ubuntu than Ubuntu has given to anyone. Without Stallman, there's no GNU/GCC, and thus no Linux. Period. Take away Ubuntu, on the other hand, and absolutely nothing is really lost. After all, about the only thing they provide of use is download bandwidth and a couple of basic GUI front-ends for existing utilities. Either way, please stop slinging phrases like "freeloaders" around. Ubuntu is only able to exist - high profits or low - because of "freeloaders" like Stallman who have contributed the software that Ubuntu merely repacks.

Just because Ubuntu currently offers an option to disable their data collection now doesn't mean that they always will. Also, as the distribution that caters to evangelists and early converters, default options are very significant.

This is a serious problem - not just in free applications, but also in paid ones. Developers feel entitled to collect any sort of analytic data they can, and users are too apathetic and stupid to put up any sort of resistance. It's why every app in Google's Play store requires GPS/Networks/Phone State/Sockets/etc permissions. It's wrong that the application developers feel entitled to usage data, it's wrong that there are third-party companies that handle said data for so many applications that they can build up scary profiles of user patterns, and it's wrong that operating system vendors don't provide us with tools to protect ourselves from these ridiculous affronts to our privacy.

In the case of Ubuntu, not only are they failing to offer their users robust tools for privacy protection, but they are actually going the other way to attack it. When questioned about it, the moron CEO replied, "Don't you trust us? We've already got root!" This is why everyone who uses Ubuntu should jump ship.

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whr4usa

"It's wrong that the application developers feel entitled to usage data, it's wrong that there are third-party companies that handle said data for so many applications that they can build up scary profiles of user patterns, and it's wrong that operating system vendors don't provide us with tools to protect ourselves from these ridiculous affronts to our privacy."

- feeling entitled is always wrong; having access to usage data is an economic and technical NECESSITY in the growing information age and coming service age

- third-party companies handling data for apps or services and profiling patterns of utilization by account, geography, layer, protocols, volume and load is kind of how this thing called the world wide web, 'Internet' functions and what keeps it efficient, profitable and continue to grow as demanded instead of collapsing into the pile of chaos and junk cisco hardware too much of it has become

- Microsoft, Red Hat, various communities provide plenty of tools to protect ourselves with decent and improving defaults for inbuilt components most of which are of null risk to user confidentiality and have negligible privacy concerns

also Google Play has no such functioning framework which applies to everything in the store, can actually be verified by the user after being enforced by the OS which possess such poor security and resource control it makes restricting such things pointless; here's a twist, try the Windows Store(s) (or amazon store, if you insist on an insecure and commercially-abused OS just because its mostly open-source)

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dgrmouse

@whr4us: I respect your opinion, but you're wrong. There's no /NECESSITY/ in knowing how many times a day I start my e-mail client, how long I play Angry Birds per session, or what percentage of cut-scenes I skip in Mass Effect 2. A personal firewall can help control some of this information leak, but what do you do about your chatty e-mail client? And the worst part is that modern software (including games and stupid Mozilla products) are requiring root-level permissions to install elevated-privilege services. Once an untrusted program has been given root, there's little control over what's being done on the system. It is in this regard that OS vendors are failing users. Give us a way to isolate applications. If Steam wants to install a service, allow it to create a fake service that's only able to affect its own environment (as an example). Give us an easy-to-access list of permissions for every running application that allows us granular control over internet, file, and other system resources available. There are controls for this kind of isolation built into the very hardware platforms that we use - it's a travesty that operating systems don't have native support. However, it's downright repugnant when we have to add the OS itself to the list of programs we need to be protected from.

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PhaQue

I'm most certain that the EULA indicates that features such as this are used. Taken that with the option to opt out, I'd think it was a very long leap to "Canonical is spying on its users".

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dgrmouse

They are intercepting information that they have no valid cause to intercept. That constitutes spying in my book. That it is mentioned in the EULA doesn't change the fact of the matter. Certainly you're not going to try to tell us that EULAs are always legal, binding, or just?

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PhaQue

See my name and icon and act accordingly...and go read contract law.

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Peanut Fox

By definition for it to be spying it has to be done without your knowledge. If they tell you before you install the software they're going to be collecting data, the onus is on you (the user) to decide if you're okay with that or not.

EULA's aren't always legal, but Canonical collecting user data on you wouldn't violate any laws currently on the books.

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QuantumCD

Time to switch to BSD!

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bpstone

Arch Linux FTW ;)

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bjoswald

I'm sticking with 12.04 LTS. It doesn't have any of that bull shit.

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dgrmouse

Linux is in a very, very bad way right now. Mandrake has been garbage since before they changed names to Mandriva. Gentoo's install CDs (at least for X86-64) have been broken to the extent that they invalidate the install docs for more than six months. Ubuntu has completely and utterly sold out, and a great many of the most popular open-source programs have been usurped and co-opted by corporate culture (i.e. Firefox).

Personal computers, in general, have almost completely been transformed from the marvelous hobby machines of the past into access vehicles for corporate America.

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somethingelse

Mr dgrmouse

I must step in to defend Gentoo, as it's my first choice of distro for pretty much all my desktops and servers.

Let me start off, I never used the full distro installation CD and probably never will. The best way to roll Gentoo is to use the MINIMAL installation CD, download the stage3 tarball, and build it from the kernel up on your own (they have a very detailed handbook that covers the whole process). Needless to say, it requires quite a bit of Linux experience for users that are comfortable with the command line. Gentoo was never meant to be and never will be the one click install like Ubuntu/Mint, CentOS/Fedora, or Suse. It targets a more advanced audience like Slackware, Arch and FreeBSD. It's for people who like to compile everything from source (portage makes this really easy once you have a system up and running) and as long as you stick to the stable tree, you will have very little issues (you will still run into issues once in a while, but again, this distro targets an audience that will find work arounds and the community is really on top of it...if not, file a bug, you'll get a response with a few hours usually).

The advantage of this; you will always have an OS that's optimized for you system (assuming you set the proper CC and USE flags in the make.conf file, FreeBSD users should be very farmiliar with this) very light weight (depending on the purpose of course) and is generally more stable then any of the binary distros.

So again, Gentoo is not for everyone, if you expect it to be as easy as Ubuntu to get up and running, you will be disappointed. If you want to take the time to install and configure (and compile) it properly, you will have a very stable and fast computer.

P.S: I'm in the Steam Beta for Linux and I have the Steam client on Gentoo. Installed with out any problems, TF2 and Serious Sam 3 work as well as they do in Win7; using the latest 310.x GeForce drivers for my GTX470. GENTOO ROCKS!

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dgrmouse

@somethingelse: I should've been more careful to identify the issue with Gentoo for fear of incoming flames. It IS the minimal install ISO that's broken. The AMD64 minimal install fails to create a proc/run directory and thusly fails the initscript while booting. It's possible to get a working system, but one can no longer follow the documentation. When your install process can't follow the documentation (especially for a distro like Gentoo), you've got a serious problem.

You can see the bug report here: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421839
Of course, you have to allow a security exception just to view Gentoo's bug tracker - apparently, the task of maintaining a valid SSL cert is as difficult as maintaining a working install disk. Note that this bug breaks the install disk and has been reported (not counting earlier, distinct reports) and acknowledged since June or before.

This can't be dismissed as a problem for novice users not suitable for Gentoo. This is a showstopping bug, since even experienced Gentoo users need to be able to rely on documentation.

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whr4usa

shared-source > open-source >> closed-source

just saying...

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zNelson24

I wouldn't say Linux is very bad right now, but Ubuntu is very bad. Ubuntu was my first Linux distro, and it was awesome. However, the interface would get bad revision, and Amazon is being put on it. With Ubuntu being put together by an company instead of a team of very interested volunteer enthusiasts, you can see how Ubuntu isn't being made with it's end user's concerns in mind.

I would simply recommend using a distro that is developed by people or organizations that serve the end user's interest:

-Projects like Debian are good for general use.
-Tails has been developed for people who wish to use Tor for everything they do on the go.
-BackTrack has been put together by Offensive Security and the hacker community to assist in pen testing and security research.

I use Arch Linux because it has taught me a lot about Linux, allowed me to make more intimate adjustments to the system, and I like my OS to not come with so much crap.

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TrollBot5000

Well those are two distros amongst thousands so let's see obviously Linux Mint 13 Mate edition shouldn't give you any problems during install or tie in amazon tracking. That's just one choice. OpenSuse 12.2 is pretty solid for KDE fans. Pear Linux is a pretty cool macish distro. Bodhi Linux has the Enlightenment desktop environment which is fun to configure. There's alot of good going on in the Linux desktop space but the main concerns that keep coming up are video driver performance/gaming and professional creative software.

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Eagle70ss

Well Mint(except Debian version), Pear, and Bodhi are all ubuntu-based distros. Yeah you can avoid the amazon thing with these, but I don't like to feed the beast that is Ubuntu..just out of principle. OpenSuse is a solid choice though. I switched over to all Arch long ago. I know Arch is a steep curve for most new to linux, but Manjaro, Archbang, and bridge linux are arch-based and most things will work right out of the box. Plus the installers on these are almost as easy as the Ubuntu-based stuff.

But the great thing about Linux is the choice is up to you. :D

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RichieB07

I'd like to know Stallman's thoughts on ones that are based off Ubuntu as well, especially the ones not made "official" by Canonical.
But I'm like the other commenter here: scared off from Arch because if you don't do it right, it's all ruined. Plus, I don't see the need to have the bleeding edge of everything for the average person. I've looked at others besides Ubuntu and it's many, many, many derivatives, but haven't committed to anything yet.

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Eagle70ss

Seriously though, check out manjaro linux. It's arch-based but it uses its own repositories that are tested by the guys/gals at manjaro before they release it. So you still get bleeding edge updates without the breakage you get from a pure arch system. Plus Manjaro is a rolling release so new OS versions are updated automagically.

Here's a guide to install:(Use the assisted install)

http://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Installation_Guide_for_Beginners_0.8.2

Manjaro uses pretty much an automatic installer if you choose it. It will set nearly everything up just like the Ubuntu style installers. And everything on my big tower and laptop work out of the box. Even the broadcom wireless card works at first boot(never on mint or ubuntu).

Other commenter: I don't hate Canonical, but I think they've bloated their distro to an absurd level. It's just not for me anymore(since 10.10), but to each his/her own.

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TrollBot5000

Yeah I fall into that camp that's scared off by Arch. I want my OS to work out of the box and Mint 13 (12.04) does that just nicely. I don't have any motivation to switch to another distro at this point so even if I burned an archbang cd I'd just play around with it for a few mins then shelf it. Ah so you're one of the Canonical haters I see.

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