Piracy Remains Legal in Switzerland After New Study

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bling581

How about a price equivalent to the quality of the product? New PC games $60, no matter how good or bad it is. Same goes for CD's and movies, they all start at the same price or within a few dollars. It's one reason I don't buy a lot of things new. I'll spend $60 for the games I know are worth it (like Skyrim and BF3), but the rest wait for Steam sales or when they come down to $15-20 at Best Buy.

I think the reason that a lot of people pirate is due to cost versus quality. I think some of them just don't have patience, because if you wait long enough things come down to a reasonable price when they find out the mad rush is over. Look at crap games like Duke Nukem. I bet a ton of people pre-ordered it for $60 just to find out how bad it was. Now I see it in stores for something like $30 and it was just on sale on Steam. Now that's their own fault, but just sayin'.

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bling581

I agree. The real pirates are going to download stuff no matter what, legal or illegal, and no matter what the cost is. If piracy was legal I'd end up downloading all the mediocre stuff that I didn't want to pay for anyway. That being said, you are still getting something for nothing, but it's not costing the entertainment industry the billions they claim.

I buy a few PC games at $60 and the rest during Steam sales. I have so many games I haven't even played yet so I don't see the need to pirate.

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edcheng

Sometimes the copy protection goes too far. Just yesterday I was trying to watch the Spirited Away Walt Disney DVD which I borrowed from my friend. It was an original, but they protected it so well that I couldn't even play it on my computer. I was in no way trying to copy it just wanted to view it, but no good.

Windows media player and VLAN both failed at playing this DVD's CD1. There is some kind of proprietary installer on autorun (for playing the video I assume) which I didn't want to install because after a quick search on google found that it was linked to some spyware/data reporting scheme.

However CD 2 commentary and extra bonus junk played okay with VLAN, although my dvd drive was spinning like mad as if it was a jet engine taking off.

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DR_JDUBZ

piracy is what big companies cry when people who paid to use the media actually get use out of their media any way they want. they think us consumers should be controlled in the way we use the media for personal use, just so they can keep fondalling our pockets. with media, you dont allways get what you expected, wanted, or even what you paid for.

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kixofmyg0t

I'd like to thank Switzerland for keeping the good fight going so I won't have to pay for movies, music and games!

 

Thank you!!!!

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mysterymantis

Do you seriously never buy any of those things?  No money ever goes into any of it, at all?

 

I've been a pirate in the past, but eventually I got tired of the BS that comes with cracking software.  That and now that I have a fairly good paying job, and less time to enjoy all those things, I just went back to buying them once the price dropped to what I considered "worth it".  Well, at least with games that is.  I just rent movies, and I don't really listen to any music that I don't already have.

But that's just me, I am sure that there are others like me, but I doubt it's the industry standard.

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xs0u1x

wow the swiss really told big music to shove it. this has got to be one of the most common sense based reports i've ever seen. "adapt to changing models, or fail" sounds reasonable to me. "give the consumers what they want".......gasp......what a novel Idea.  I believe max pc has an article about steam and this. give the consumer and easy route to get the material they want at a reasonable price, and they will buy. people who wouldn't have paid for it anyways will pirate it. they even admit this. oh and can people please stop equating piracy to stealing a car/toaster/food/whatever. because it's not. copying is the key word here folks. i'm sure if the RIAA had it their way you would pay for each copy your system makes when just playing a song itself. sales figures and record profits don't have me convinced piracy is "strangling" any business.

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Turbo Charge

It used to be a day that pirates were listed as stealers and made copys of cd's and movies and sold them for money now society has any one that makes copys or dl any thing from the internet considerd pirates if it's copyrighted also remember a time when friends would make copys of cd's or a copy of a movie with a vcr and give them away to each other as gifts, boy those where the days now you gotta wonder if you invite a friend over to watch a new movie or loan out your new cd if you are breaking the law or what, it's like a wirl wind of BS!

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Tenhawk

Reading this I can't help but wonder if we're going to see a future where sites like the Pirate Bay are hosted in Switzerland and protected the way their bank accounts have been... Will having a Swiss Server one day be the sign of elite web masters worldwide? :)

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xs0u1x

according to pieces of legislation like SOPA and the people who back such draconian legislation you'll automatically be labeled a filthy pirate. guilty until proven innocent

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rb3m

If it's legal, should it still be called piracy?

Anyway, what publishers should do is come up with a way to make money no matter how the consumer got the product. Easier said than done, I know. As soon as I can figure it out I'll let you know from my yatch en route to my private island.

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mysterymantis

Micro-transactions.  MMO's beat you to it.

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rb3m

Darn! But what about movies and music?

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petrol42

We're all fooling ourselves when we say piracy doesn't hurt an industry.

10 years ago, we had Tower Records, Music Plus, Sam Goody, The Wherehouse and probably a few more music stores that I missed.  Today, NONE of those music stores are around anymore and if you want to buy CDs, you have to go to Best Buy, Walmart or Target and unlike Tower Records, they won't have the variety or Imports that Tower had.  And guess what, Best Buy, Walmart and Target do not make a majority of their profits from selling music.

But I like what the Swiss government is doing by giving an "adapt or die" ultimatum to the media companies.  Had they done that during the dawn of the MP3 age, the record companies might still be making way more money than they are now.  

The only way I see the media companies getting back is through pricing.  Since Pandoras box has been opened and everyone and their mothers (literally) are using bittorrent to download copyrighted materials, the public is not going to accept CDs that are $13 to $15 bucks, DVDs at $15 dollars or Blu Ray movies that are $30 dollars.  Price the CDs and DVDs at $4.99 and the Blu Rays at $7.99 and I willing to bet cash money that people would start purchasing this form of entertainment again!

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bling581

Actually, I believe the price of CD's and things like iTunes are what hurt the market. I got tired of paying $12-14 for a CD just to have 1-3 songs off it. There were few bands that were good enough to make it worth buying the entire album. Now I spend my $1 and download a single song and I'm done.

They try to lure you into buying albums by playing one or two songs over and over again on the radio so you start to like it. Lots of times I don't even like a song the first couple times I hear it but after a while it gets to you. I was just going through my list of songs the other day and couldn't figure out why I even had some of them because now I think they suck.

Bands that release great albums will continue to get my money. Bands that have 1 hit radio song and 10 pieces of crap will get a buck.

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Turbo Charge

Well those companys charged to much as to the prices that best buy  or walmart charged, but yes if they started charging prices with in reason I would say it would be a market again, I mean it cost less then a dollar for the companys to make a music cd and dvd is something like 2 bucks for them to make for a movie so do the math and your wallet in a struggling eco.

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Tenhawk

Well, you're right and you're wrong...

You *can* sort of blame piracy for killing those stores, much the same way piracy killed the eight track tape. People stopped buying the eight track because the new format cassette tape was smaller and could record things, thus became more and more popular and the eight track was abandoned.

Similarly, digital content distribution killed those stores the way it's killing video rental, book stores, and many other stores that sell things that can be transmitted. But it's not Piracy directly that's doing this... you can blame piracy in a roundabout way though, since the easier ability to copy content is what makes online distribution so popular.

However it isn't that the money income has *vanished*, it's that it has shifted over to new formats. iTunes and other digital distribution systems now rule the music industry, bringing in far more money that ever before and putting it into the studio's pockets. In some cases the artists have gone indie, bringing money straight to their own pockets... Piracy, however, remains a minor issue in terms of overall losses... and some studies have suggested that it may result in a net GAIN in many cases.

See, while hardcore pirates are generally collectors by nature, most are dabblers... they find something they like and the next time they're looking to buy music or whatever, they naturally gravitate to things they're familiar with.

The loss of brick and mortar storefronts isn't indicative of piracy gone amuck, it's a sign that those stores have moved their business online like everyone else, or been replaced by someone who has.

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Ghok

Well, I'd say technology had a bigger impact on the death of record stores (not like most cities don't have a few indie record stores anyway). But even if we do say that downloading music has "hurt the industry", the only part of the industry we're talking about there is the buying CDs part. The entire music industry as a whole is still around, and considering all the great new music I listen to (I get to listen to a lot more rare or imported stuff now than I could ever buy at any record store before), I'd say the industry is doing very very well.

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mysterymantis

Wow, talk about someone who totally missed the point, but somehow still managed to grasp it at the same time.

 

Those record stores went out of business because they couldn't compete with department stores that the music industry allowed to undercut them.  When your competition is selling something for less than your cost, you are going to die.  When a new technology comes along that makes it easier (and cheaper) for people to get the uncommon items that your shop specializes in (the imports you mentioned) you are going to die.  When you want to still have people embrace an outdated business model in the face of the changing world, simply because at one time people had no other choice, you are going to die.

 

Piracy may have contributed to the death of those companies, but it most certainly did not build the entire coffin.  Not even close.

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Svetty Parabols

Technology (not just bit torrent) put those stores out of business, not piracy. You might as well blame ITunes, Spotify, and Pandora also. Piracy is a double edged sword, Yes, record comapnies may not make the money they are used to making, but it also benefits their clients with word of mouth advertising that costs them nothing. So what they lose in sales they are saving in advertising costs. They aren't the victims they make themselves out to be. Until it proven that every pirate does not purchase what they download, then they have no cause to complain.

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shivan

I have a budget. I spend the budget. I download he rest. No matter what they do, I will only spend the budget. I will download p2p, usenet or from friends who share. The more I download does not mean the less I spend. Would I really buy the entire discography of Grand Funk Railroad? But I do buy many new artists that need cash to get started. Maybe if they reduced the older stuff to a token amount, I might create a budget for older stuff. Hurry though, I almost have it all.

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Tenhawk

A Government with sanity?

Freaking A-May-Zing.

Finally a government doesn't take the industries bullshit claims at face value and actually does some research of their own to check the numbers. And, of course, those numbers turn out to be a crock. 

Big shocker.

I know it's too much to ask, but I wish sanity would infect other governments at some point as well.

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Turbo Charge

Yeah Like the good ole U.S.A. but wait second sorry I was day dreaming.....

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warptek2010

How is it most of us here can see the logic (or illogic) of "lost sales from piracy" as being nothing more than constructed myth, a straw man argument and the entertainment industry continues to push it and push it alienating a lot of people in the process? Are they being deceptive and expect none of us to see the deception or are they just plain stupid? Something somewhere is giving them this data... maybe false demographics or some dumbass think tank or media study groups. I can understand Hollywood and the music/media companies not getting it... they never truly understood America and it's core people to begin with, but the gaming industry? Something stinks here and I would bet the farm it has something to do with how big a lobby group they are.

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hastyscorpion

Nope They just want you to pay them when you consume their product. 

The "one pirated download does not equal one sale" is the actual srtaw man. It doesn't acctually matter if every person who is pirating something wouldn't have bought it. You are still taking something that someone else created without paying for it. The creators SHOULD GET PAID when someone uses their product (unless they want to give it away for free). If that means that less people get to use it so bet it. 

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Holly Golightly

Nope, it has nothing to do with that. It is just pure greed. They are never satisfied with what they get. They want more money, and more money. This is why you see the latest videogames come in a $60 price tag with the worst DRM ever! Think about it.

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hastyscorpion

Really!!  So a company is gready when they want to get paid for something they created. But you are not gready when you steal that thing they created from them??

 

You are messed up. 

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Svetty Parabols

Your argument might be more valid if you could correctly spell GREEDY.

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hastyscorpion

That is what comes from posting at 3:00 A.M. and not using spell check :)

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Tenhawk

Not so much.

What they now call 'piracy' has been around basically as long as recording tech has been. I effin defy you to claim you've never pirated something. You use a DVR? VCR? Mix tape from back when people taped stuff off the radio? You're a pirate. period. Don't believe me? Check some of the crap the industry has spouted about each of those things in the past.

What's the freaking difference between me downloading a tv show and someone recording it off the TV with a DVR? What's the difference between downloading an MP3 and taping it off the radio?

The industry tried to DESTROY VCRs and Betamax back when they came out. Why? Because piracy was going to ruin the movie business of course. We know today that was total bullshit. In fact it just opened a new market that made them BILLIONS.

Today they're trying to destroy this generations version of the VCR for the same reason. And people like you buy into the crap and try to help them.

Well screw you. Why the hell should the rest of us back away from the next step in technical development because some people don't want to adapt to a new distribution method? The studios and companies need to adapt, and when they do they'll make another fortune off of us and claim it was all their idea... but the truth is that PIRATES have ALWAYS been forced to drag their backward arses into the future, kicking and screaming the whole damned way.

In twenty years people will be fighting this same damned fight over another technology and some idiot will be spouting the same damned moralistic nonsense about how 'its so wrong to steal from content creators...'

What a crock.

It's not even theft, by any legal definition I'm aware of. It's copyright infringement. They don't mean the same thing. Theft is the removal of property without permission of the owner. This is making a COPY of property for personal use. Basically it's the same thing as taking a picture of a Van Gogh. You didn't steal the fricken painting, but you can now look at it at home whenever you want.

Is it legal? Not in most places. Is it moral? We're debating that issue rather hotly at the moment. But is it THEFT? Absolutely NOT. Theft and Copyright Infringement are two seperate terms covering seperate 'crimes'.

Using the word 'theft' to describe pirating movies is like using the word 'murder' to describe being drunk in public. They're not the same damned thing.

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hastyscorpion

 

First of all what is this generations version of the VCR that these  “big corporations” are trying to shut down. I say big corporations because your whole argument just seeps with occupy wall street crap. It’s not like they are trying to shut down the Internet or trying to get tablets and smart phones taken off the market.

Also you call it moralistic nonsense to say that it’s wrong to steal from content creators. What right to you have to take it from them? Do you have the right because you can get it without paying for it? Why is it your prerogative to which content creators get paid for their stuff and which ones don’t get paid.

You said making a copy for you own personal use is different than stealing something. This is flawed argument because that the only way to distribute media. You make a copy and then people buy it for their own personal use.Why should media content have lesser protection against theft just because it can’t be stolen like you can steal milk from grocery store.  If I go into Target and steal a copy of Skyrim of their shelves their not going to be mad at me because I took the DVD and the plastic box that probably cost them 75 cents. Their going to mad because I took the game that is worth $50-$60 dollars

You can use the semantics of “copyright infringment v. theft” all you want but in the end content creators create content in order to get paid for it. Whether it’s the Indie artist who is going to make twenty five hundred bucks off their CD or whether it’s Activision who is several billion dollars off Modern Warfare 3. And if everyone took your mind set that “I should get this game for free because the big bad corporations are greedy greedy greedy.” Then we wouldn’t have any content to consume.

 

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warptek2010

You didn't quite answer my argument but began a new one. I said corporations are greedy because they basically tag onto the price of their product a charge (or fee) that helps them recoup money from pirating. In other words they are making YOU pay for it. Companies do this kind of thing all the time. Sometimes they list it in the price, like when you buy a car the price is broken down into all the fees you are paying, and sometimes they don't as in affixing a vidoegame, blueray, box set with a set price.

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Tenhawk

This generations version of the VCR is online distribution, and make no mistake that's what they've been trying (and failing of course) to destroy. It's only the past year or two that movie and tv studios have started to realize that they can't destroy it and have begun to adapt... music studios are a little ahead of them.

As for content creators deserve money, of course they do. I pirated Arkham Asylum back when it first came out. Today I OWN copies of AA, AC, and Lego Batman just cause I figured why not? when I bought the other two. First time I played Half Life was on a pirated copy, I now own HL, HL2, Ep1, and Ep2... plus a bunch of related stuff I paid for and didn't bother looking at.

For movies and tv, however, why should I pay 3.49 an episode on iTunes, for example, for a tv show that is BROADCAST??

Music is much the same thing. It's available freely on the radio and I can make a digital copy from the local station that's basically as clean as any mp3... and no one would say word one to me about it even if I did it in a cop station in front of the entire police force. So why the hell is downloading an MP3 illegal?

Your argument that no one will pay for content and then we'll have no content to consume is the EXACT SAME WORDING they used against VCRs back in the day. Right down to the WORD. It was bullshit then, it is bullshit now.

And for the record, I'm a content provider. I make my money as an author. When my first novel showed up on a pirate download site, I laughed. Why? Because I knew that I'd made it.

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Carlidan

Ah comporations are greedy. Their sole purpose is to make money. Just wondering. Do you know what the purpose of OWS protest is all about? What the believe in. Why they are prostesting. Besides hearing from one news source or one view radio show. 

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livebriand

You know, piracy CAN help them, right? Sometimes someone will pirate a game to see if they like it, and then they'll go buy it a few days later. These studies don't realize things like that, that quite a few of the people who pirate also ended up buying the game. There are also some people who won't buy the game legally no matter what. And there are some who won't buy it but otherwise would because of DRM. And there are the few who pirate because they can but would pay otherwise (and this is what all the DRM and crap focusses on, creating more losses and piracy in the end).

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Holly Golightly

It is great to see that Switzerland's government is fighting for the interests of people and not of big business. People will pirate anyways... Whether they put up a new law or not. At this point, it simply does not matter. But as an American, I am a little jealous of just how lucky the Swiss are right now.

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Ashton2091

BOOM

 

As I stated before in the "10 Practial Reason not to Pirate" artlce, it's not a lost sale if the person who pirated the material would've never bought the material to begin with. Although still....pirating is wrong. But the facts are the facts.

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Mizufall

To be fair game are a different story unlike a film that has a box office or a musician that has concerts games make their money mostly on direct sales.

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macncapn

games are slightly different, than films and music, but I would say they are fairly similar to books and authors also can benefit from having their ebooks pirated, I believe eric flint (an author) gives some good information on this on the baen free public library, where books that were made available for free by them ended up turning greater profits for the series or even the individual book.

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Ashton2091

very good point. I didn't think of that

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alexw1234

Even my grandfather knows how to use bittorrent and rip dvd's. Only stupid people who just jump on the bandwagon going, "oh free stuff" and then get caught.

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winmaster

"Only stupid people who just jump on the bandwagon going, "oh free stuff" and then get caught."

 

Yup, that's how it goes, only "stupid" people get caught, the smart people pirate without an IP address. </sarcasm>

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Jox

Yup, that's how it goes, only "stupid" people get caught, the smart people pirate without an IP address. </sarcasm>


The irony of your statement is that you are, essentially, correct; in spite of yourself.

-Jox

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Danthrax66

No he isn't. You can't be on the internet without an IP address. The only way to avoid getting caught is to use private trackers, and even then there is a chance.

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warptek2010

Haven't you ever seen any hackers movies, dude??? All u gotta do is type really, REALLY fast and you won't get caught. Nope. Doesn't matter if you're typing real sentences or just hitting keys at random either.

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alexw1234

What i meant was that you need to turn on some privacy settings, maybe use a seedbox, thats all. Some people might just download utorrent and start downloading away without even worrying about security and privacy.

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brentrad

Actually, smart people worried about security and privacy use newsgroups to pirate.

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Supall

Maybe we should move all server domains to Switzerland...

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Dartht33bagger

Lucky bastards

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