PC OEM’s Refuse To Take The Blame For Soft Windows 8 Sales

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Bullwinkle J Moose

It's not fair...

I should get at least some of the credit for making Windows 8 a complete flop

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davelray

That's because, despite your obvious distaste for it, it did not flop. MS says they sold 40 million copies. Even if they are exaggerating and only half that sold, 20 million copies is hardly a flop.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

The only success was Windows to Go

Booting to a 32 GB Read Only SDHC Card after all your tweaks are made is the only way to go

Now if they could just cash out of their dead end stock and build new stock before anybody notices......

Sound Works
Graphics Drivers Work
Most installable Software still works
Internet

Welcome to my version of Windows

As secure as XP with driveshield but without the hassles

It would have been nice to install to a 16GB Card though

32GB minimum Thumbdrive size is a bit of a drag

"Read Only" is the only secure way to run Windows!

Anything else is just a Toy

a very dangerous.......
broken......
toy

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davelray

Paranoid much?

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Off Topic Much?

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iheartpcs

When are your paranoid rants EVER on topic? Why do you even own a computer?

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Bizco

I agree Trollbot5000. It was obvious to me too. Brick & Mortar stores only had Win 8 (sale prices) retail box's and only Win8 loaded on all the notebooks/computers for sale . I realized then that Microsoft had no confidence in Win8 and seemed desperate to make sure Win8 appeared to sell well. It was like over-night magic, Win 7 disappeared from shelves and computers. Scary in the way Win 8 was pushed.

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TrollBot5000

Yeah exactly man. See I'm just not that informed when it comes to how OEM operating system licensing works. As in could an OEM keep making windows 7 machines and have retailers keep ordering them in lieu of win8 machines?? Just wondering how much control the oems have in this matter or is the Redmond borg pulling all the strings. YOU WILL USE WINDOWS 8 RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

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whr4usa

I can speak to the OEM and retailer licensing though some of what I'm going to answer must be qualified by saying that some of the largest "royalty OEMs" occassionally make 3-way deals with Msft & a specific retailer usually for a limited time and specific model\line that falls outside of the following

as a complement of the published Microsoft Support Lifecycle Policy any Microsoft Partner Network member (includes "authorized retailers" and "royalty OEMs") must follow the Microsoft Sales & Availability Agreement which spells out which editions of what products can be sold for how long @ what price ranges (the latter isn't legally binding though 20% off MSRP is the rule of thumb they advise and you can't make *any* profit if you try much lower - there's a reason that NewEgg's OS licensing promotions are always '15%' or '12%' or '10%' off!)

without going deep into specifics there are different stair-stepped 'cutoffs' that are kept seperate for OEM, retailer and "small shops" which are based on 6-, 12-, 18-, or 24-month intervals from the release of the *latest* product

so just as an example (these arn't actual data would have to look it up)

- 6 calendar months exclusive after 6.1.760x Clt (Windows 7) RTM the 50 or so largest [royalty] OEMs will be disallowed from selling 6.0.600x Clt (Vista)
- 6 calendar months exclusive after 6.1's GA same story for authorized resellers (think Target not NewEgg)
- 2 calendar years exclusive after the release for smaller shops etc.

same goes for when they must stop selling "Windows 7 RTM" and only sell "with SP1" etc.

they do heavily incentivize and in some cases with authorized resellers only partially subsidize the initial availability but although Redmond has quite substantial indirect influence over the matter particularly with the larger OEMs there are no "strings to pull" saying retailer A must make 20 boxes avaialbe for $10 etc.

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maverick knight

My opinion will be as non-bias as possible. From what I can gather from reading reviews and lots of forums, since all the preview versions (and my own experience with the preview versions) Windows 8 seems to be very good for touchscreen devices. On the other hand, the desktop version is not as fluid or user friendly. However, getting used to the desktop version seems to alleviate the frustration but not to the point as to upgrade from Windows 7.

Taking the most obvious opinions and conclusions out of the way, the OS is very responsive and fast. Aside from some compatibility issues (which every version of Windows always have) it seems to be very stable. You have everything Windows 7 has to offer and more. I really like Windows 7 and that's why I have not jump the gun, yet.

Microsoft is trying to change its landscape. A couple of years back there were editorials that stated the PC market is boring and has been the same for the past decade. Microsoft is changing that with Windows 8. It was a bold and risky move but I believe it will only get better for the PC market.

If you do not want to change then don't. But please, stop saying that Windows 8 is garbage because it is not.

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Granite

I agree with all you have written, except your point about Win8 not being as fluid or user friendly on a desktop computer.

The mouse controls for the Modern UI are smooth and intuitive...if you don't insist on treating it like a normal windows UI. If you treat it like an app interface, it works very well.

The traditional desktop UI is no different than Win7.

Switching between the two UI's is as easy as pressing the Windows key.

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TrollBot5000

I'd like to also add that so it's to my understanding that if you were to go into a brick and morter store like best buy that the only desktop/latop pcs youre going to find are windows 8?? So OEMS are only shipping windows 8 machines to stores?? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this. If this is true and there arent any downgrade "upgrade" options to windows 7 then M$ is shooting themselves in the foot. Microsoft is blaming OEMS for low sales when in reality it's M$ piece of shit OS thats causing the low market shares. I'm sure these same desktops/laptops would be selling just fine if they had windows 7 or Ubuntu on them. But if OEMS aren't even allowed to ship new pcs with windows7 if they choose to then it's not the OEMS fault. I don't see any blame here on the OEM side. I'm pointing the finger directly at microsoft for shoving a tablet/phone OS down our throats. Shame on you microsoft. You have done nothing but reinforce my linux fanboi-ism.

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Teh_tourist

So the fact that Windows 8 is selling "as expected" mean it's a failure?

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davelray

Nope. That's just it. It's not a failure. These guys just can't stand the fact that they are wrong and their dreams of Microsoft crumbling into dust have been dashed. So they've decided to continue living in their fantasy world.

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wintercoder

I've been using a Surface RT for evaluation at my company for about a month... and just ordered two RT's (for personal gifts). The third personal one will be a Surface Pro (also a Christmas gift) in January.

These are the first new PCs I've purchased for personal use in two years... Had a hardware vendor come up with something this well built earlier, I would have purchased it. So.. It seems to me that Microsoft did it's job well.

On the flip side, I am not as thrilled with the desktop implementation of Windows 8. I expected faster boot times but have yet to see any improvement on my hybrid drive. Many of the management functions seem to be buried. It is, however, functional.

If we are successful with our WindowsRT proof-of-concept coding for our field salesforce, we will likely acquire two dozen more SurfaceRTs. I feel much more confident with a Windows 8 field solution than I would a 'closed-shop' iOS or a 'fractionalized' Android solution.

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TrollBot5000

disregard. comment omission.

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guntlager

Not one Metro app really works for me. None of them does all of the expected job. If RT's apps are the same then RT would be worthless to me. People used to iOS would not put up with Metro's "experimental" feel. Metro functions like a beta.

On the other hand the Windows 8 desktop is really nice. The new layout is very comfortable to look at. W8 starts up and shuts down faster than W7. The only thing I miss is a shadow under the active window. Windows without shadows are just a bunch of intersecting lines.

Oddly enough Office 2013 adds the shadows back and reduces the way-too-thick borders to a thin line. Go figure.

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andrewc513

There's lots of things at fault. Microsoft for UI oversights, OEMs for regurgitating aging platforms(dirt cheap laptops with traditional inputs) in lieu of making touchscreen ultrabooks and dockable tablets at a competitive enough price point, and consumers for perpetuating this "Vista 2.0" mindset rather than taking time to learn a new OS.

Windows 8 is fine. It is neither revolutionary nor a disastrous. Windows is going through a tough transitional phase from one era of computing to another. We'll always have traditional desktops for more work-oriented purposes, but the PC market is shifting at an amazing rate toward everything mobile. This just happens to be the unavoidable, but necessary, in-between period that Windows 8 has gotten stuck in.

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wolfing

I disagree. Windows 8 is indeed disastrous, at least for desktop/laptop usage. It's basically a downgrade in usability.

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andrewc513

That's pretty subjective, though. With keyboard shortcuts and pinned apps, I never even see the WinRT side 98% of the time. I go over there for Netflix, but that's about all. The RT app is so much nicer and more polished than the browser interface.

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savage4naves

Well said.

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iheartpcs

It's not selling because nobody frickin' wanted it!

Windows 7 was/is perfectly fine. Does MS live on another planet? Everybody has been saying for months that Windows 8 is not needed and that they wont be upgrading.

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big_montana

Who is everybody? I am not everybody so do not speak for me, as I DID upgrade, so apparently NOT everybody said it was not needed. Only those who are afraid of change or who have not used it do not want it. Which category do you fall in?

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znod

"Only those who are afraid of change or who have not used it do not want it."

Unfortunately, you are ignorant.

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davelray

Why is it that anyone that happens to like Windows 8 is retarded or stupid or ignorant etc...? Just because you don't like it, and a handful of other people don't like it doesn't mean everyone will not like it. I like it just fine, my parents like it just fine, and my friends and coworkers who have upgraded like it just fine. I have yet to see a truly valid negative complaint about it.

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iheartpcs

Jesus H. There's always one tool who picks apart a comment eh? That's the category you fall into.

Ok, ok. For the tools out there who require precise wording - the MAJORITY of people didn't want this. It wasn't needed for MOST of us power users.

I crave change and have been using Win 8 for 3-4 months. I like Win 8 and believe it holds potential but IT WAS NOT NEEDED therefore there will be low demand and low sales.

I'm not sure how you took a comment I made about sales of Win 8 and turned it into something about me, but STFU and quit trying to cause trouble.

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davelray

To be honest, the "Majority" of people don't give a flip what really comes on their computer. I think the reality is, PC sales are going to slow down a bit now that there are other devices, such as tablets, out there that can do the things the "Majority" of people are interested in such as web browsing and email.

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philipa25

I'm glad all the uninspired, overpriced, and unavailable systems aren't to blame

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wolfing

"uninspired"
Some of us actually want it to just work, I don't need a Picasso in a laptop.

"overpriced"
Overpriced? You get a laptop with over 500GB drive, 4GB RAM, Intel i5 processor for less than the price of a weak tablet.

"unavailable"
Eh? Every store is flooded with W8 laptops as people just don't want W8.

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philipa25

Guess it depends on what you're looking for.

1) I find laptop with a touchscreen pointlessly placed on it uninspired. Why are their so many convertibles with no pens? I've been using convertible laptops for a long time, and without a pen you are paying a premium for nothing.

2) Overpriced, have you looked at the prices of some of the stuff that isn't a traditional laptop? $700+ for a tablet with an atom processor and 64 gigs of storage is a joke. Want a tablet with a core 5 in it? Over a grand.

3) I'm in the market for a new laptop and the only that has caught my interest is the Samsung Atviv 128 gig (which I think is overpriced. It's out but I've never need one actually available anywhere. It's always out of stock.

Yes, if you are looking for a no frills laptop you can get one with windows 8 without any of this issues, but if that's what you want why get it with windows 8. If you can't put out anything that takes advantage of windows 8 then I say that vendors have to take a big portion of the blame.

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znod

All True. You'd think the problem does not lie with the OEM's. And, people appear to be spending more these days in general.

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znod

I don't have the data to know who is right. Someone should do a serious poll. I would like to be able to tell pollsters that I would not buy a new PC that has Win8 installed unless I get an abnormally large discount. The extra discount would be needed to compensate me for buying a new copy of Win7 and spending the time installing it, related software, etc. And, I would need a Win8 install disc included in the deal. I might want to dual boot and having a DVD would make things easier potentially. Also, while unlikely, if I still had the machine when Win7 support is pulled, then I'd be able to, ugh, run Win8 if I was concerned about the lack of support. I now have used Win8 extensively. Given what I want to do on a computer, Win8 is pretty inefficient because of the Charm Bar, Metro, including its clumsy "control panel," etc. Don't get me wrong; Win8 is usable--just not desirable to me given my uses and having no-fluff desires. Of course you can get around some Win8 issues in a variety of ways, e.g., StarDock Start8 and Classic Shell.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

Released too soon following Windows 7.

Some twat decided to force a phone OS on PC users. He and everyone who signed on to the plan should be sacked.

PC users don't want a phone OS? Gee, what a fucking shocker....

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Incognito

Agreed. I only bought Windows 8 because it was $40 for the upgrade. After installing it I am really not liking it and may go back to Windows 7. Start8 is making it bearable so we'll see... Once the upgrade period expires and they start selling Win8 for the MSRP of $199 I don't see them moving many copies. IMO, the only reason they sold as many as they did is because of the discounts they were giving for people upgrading (which is pretty much everyone).

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tekknyne

Pretty much what I was thinking. I bought it and downloaded some Win7 Start menu mod that really isnt that reat.

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wolfing

I bought a laptop last weekend for my dad. Sadly I couldn't choose a W7 version as all they sold in Best Buy had Windows 8, so I took a time to try and use it... I just couldn't, I tried. After like an hour or so I decided to try one of those programs that bring back the Windows 7 style (StartW8 freeware). I was soooo happy when it ran. That stupid Metro interface should have been an option, not a mandate.

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w2ed

I'm on the side of the OEM's - the hardware they've been releasing has been on par with, or more exciting, than the stuff that was out when Windows 7 came out. Part of it is the latest generation of hardware, but a lot of it is the promises of technology, with tablet PC's finally becoming more reasonable than before. The implementation of hardware has never been better, yet the software took a few steps backwards.

For starters, with all of the focus on Metro, why wasn't there much focus on integrating the webcam in ways similar to the Kinect? I can understand issues with the Desktop-PC side as well as the necessity in touchscreen devices (which simply don't need it), but almost every Windows 8 device I've seen and not mentioned, either tablet or laptop, has a webcam integrated in one form or another. There's also the stuff that's been complained about on websites and magazines,from the integration between Aero and Metro sides to the missing or hard-to-find tools and toys pro users liked, such as the command line.

The biggest thing I think is hurting sales of 8? Confusion and last-gen's available dearth of hardware. Windows 7 has been out for just over 3 years, yet to a lot of the average user and retailer (which confuse me as to how they manage to get hired doing sales in box stores like Best Buy and Wal-Mart), it's been a lot less time. (One person I talked with literally said Windows 7 came out last year!) When the public, geek-centric pros and newbies alike, are confused as to the reason and suddenness of a new update they have to pay for, either on new hardware or in new software, without the company paying attention to its users (who were playing with the Beta for almost a year complaining about these problems), it's easy to understand why the adoption is slow.

The upside? The hardware is cool, and the holidays are here - it'll be interesting to see how adoption is after Christmas.

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Granite

Sorry, w2ed, but when I read stuff like this:

"There's also the stuff that's been complained about on websites and magazines,from the integration between Aero and Metro sides to the missing or hard-to-find tools and toys pro users liked, such as the command line."

I have to pretty much take everything else said with a grain of salt.

There is NO Aero in Win8.

If a person can't find the Command Line shortcut, then they aren't the power user they think they are. It's as easy as clicking on the "All Apps" button.

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TrollBot5000

I think Valve made the right decision choosing linux over windows8. I mean what else is there to say that hasn't been said in countless win8 threads on here. No need to parrot the same rhetoric. So I guess all I want to say is that Microsoft should take a que from Bodhi linux for windows 9. (they won't but they should) Personally I don't use Bodhi because Mint 13 is close to perfect for me but Bodhi has this nice feature when you boot up you choose what type of environment youre in. As in "regular desktop/laptop, tablet, etc.. I forgot the other choices but the point is that the desktop environment changes to suit whatever platform youre on. So let's say that you're running on a desktop so you choose desktop and windows loads up without Metro. Just your normal start menu without registry hacks with all the under the hood improvements. I guess all I'm saying is that it would be nice to have a simple menu at startup to either enable metro or not. I guess on tablets that feature would be moot and likely disabled. Just a thought.

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Eoraptor

of those "40 million licences" how many are x86 and how many are for the gutless ARM versions which can't run full desktop software like word, or any browser other than IE.

and of course Microsoft is blaming OEM's, just the same way they blamed them for not having tablets to start with, because you know, PC makers should automatically know how to make tablets after all.

hail the end of the pax microsoftia! they've destroyed their own empire!

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big_montana

Sorry but there is an ARM version of MS Office. And there are ARM browses as well, what processor is your smartphone running? Mine has an ARM and is running Firefox. So do a little research first before you post a rant filled fact less comment next time. You don't like Windows 8 fine, but at post an accurate rant.

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maxeeemum

Yep! And the Windows 8 Surface RT is just flying out the door! I thought the Surface was put out there to set the standard. Guess not!!!

40 million licenses sold??? I doubt that too!!!

I think Windows 8 is the problem!!!

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TechW

I have been recommending that my clients buy the $15 copy of Window 8 Pro just in case they want to upgrade from Windows 7 later. Cheap insurance really. For now however, compatibility issues still arise with Windows 8. Given time, most of these problems will hopefully go away.

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TinyVK

I love the new marketing pitch:

Windows 8: It's not a complete train wreck

Close to complete, but not complete.

M/S is skating on this ice blaming the OEMS. For an ops/sys designed for tablets it is mediocre at best and for all other systems it is a lot worse.

Of course, the only Win 8 Tablets that are is any supply are selling out of M/S stores and not available on the open market. ASUS and Samsung have dropped the ball on filling the channels with any supply their new (great) tablets/hybrids but the M/S stores do have a short supply of some of them,

Window 8 aps are also in short supply. Maximum PC named 20 that were good, but unfortunately that's about all M/S has in their "STORE"

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boidsonly

I took advantage of the low price of Win 8 when I purchased a new laptop.

Rather than install it on mine, I installed it on the wife's since I was planning to do a complete wipe/reinstall of Win 7 on her laptop anyway.

She is still PO'd at me-lol. Well, not so funny at the time.

Win 8 is so unintuitive and braindead. There is nothing right about it...Thankfully I lost but $15 on it.

Why don't we all start driving on the left side of the road because MS said to??

I traveled through this 2 airports this past week and both had Win 8 kiosks set up trying to "sell" the Win 8 experience to passersby. Just shows how desperate MS is to move this pink elephant.

Back to Win 7 this weekend for her.

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rickstrauss

"Windows 8: It's not a complete trainwreck."

This is an excellent suggestion for a marketing tagline for the Windows 8 campaign, Justin. I hope that Redmond is listening to you and decides to adopt it immediately.

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Justin.Kerr

It wouldn't be the first time my words were taken out of context and used against me :)

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Pulagatha

I feel bad for Ballmer. I wish he would just gather all the criticisms and ideas on the internet about Windows 8 and put those criticisms and ideas in place on the next version on Windows.

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Hilarity

All 3 systems running Win 8 for $15 apiece. No reason to not switch. Desktop is still the desktop. All the porn still works the same, all the typical programs still the same, all with Win 8's numerous benefits.

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Granite

My thoughts exactly...except I had to spring for $40 for my one copy. Still a bargain in my book.

Win8 works better than Win7.

(I still kind of miss Aero, though)

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