Paul Allen Finds Windows 8 "Promising" and "Puzzling"



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AHH I'm done.. yes it's paul allen- but when a confimed MS wonk needs to add all the customization to get it to run- c'mon.

Do you really seriously think the general public will edit anything in the system to fix the microsft problems- no.

And i as a builder don't want to add additional time in the build to set it up to be user freindly since i need to make changes, then test it out prior to giving the computer to the customer.

all you will have are large amount of frustrate customers wanting thier XP and Win 7 boxes back- some will want thier Vista's boxes back

even his comment about organizing the tiles into subfolder type arrangments- so we remove the start menu (which a lot of the public likes and wants) give you a mess of icons and he suggests replacig it with folders like Win 3.11

Give me back the start menu




I am a technodummy, & though I have been using Windows since DOS; I can install Windows & programs and that's about all, but damnit even I can figure out Win 8. It took around 1 hour to tame it and after that, no more irritating bounce to Metro. This thing flies - gaming is no different from Win 7, file transfers are quick, programs open snappily, if you want to find a program go to Metro and just start typing the file name - no clicks nothing.

Rant over. Strange that the technically literate people of this day and age balk at this.



I use multi monitors, three of them all 24". There is no way I want to be reaching 18" away to touch my monitors to control my OS. Yes I know I can use a mouse but this OS seems to be designed for touch. I think that for the first time in over 20 years I will not be jumping on the new OS. I will wait and see. I really have no issues with WIn 7 at all and while I love my Win phone, this is not the look and way I want to interface with my desktop.



Every time I see a picture of this interface I have the same thought. It is ugly!! Windows 3.1 style ugly. Why the necessity to surround each icon with a blue box? Why the peas and carrots color scheme? They certainly won't win any awards for appearance. I saw better looking interfaces last century.



Tried the release candidate last week. My computer would freeze up every 5 minutes(give or take). Wouldn't matter if I was using Firefox or playing games through Steam. Sure hope the final product will be more stable. But looks like I'll be steering clear.



I am VERY happy with Windows 7 and from all I have read and from using the Beta version, I do NOT plan to go to Windows 8. I do NOT like being forced to use some UI that is made for Tablets on my desktop PC. I do NOT like the stripped down UI for the desktop mode! All the other wonky "stuff" that plagues Windows 8 reviews has convinced me to stick with the OS Microsoft got right, Windows 7. Windows 8 looks like a step BACKWARDS as far as usability.

Now, if MS had given users the OPTION to install the "Metro UI" based OS or a "Windows 7" based OS, that might be worth it then. It would have been a simple routine to have during the installation process. Simply ask: Which Version of Windows 8 do you want to install? Tablet Mode or Desktop Mode?

Oh well, like with Vista, I'll skip this one. I went from XP to 7. And I LOVE 7!!!


h e x e n

Still crappy multi monitor support? Good lord Microsoft, catch up and get with the times!

Yet another reason I'll be steering clear of this turd.


Ghost XFX

For Allen to be puzzled, that's enough for me to say "WTFNO" to Windows 8.

Give me a usable UI, Microsoft. All I asked for was an OS, one that works without the freaking bugs and useless crap that I'll likely never use. 7 was the way forward...



dedgar said:

"3. Tried Win 8 and didn't like it. Just didn't. That's enough for me and I don't need to justify my reasoning to anyone."

Well said! That about puts it in a nutshell! I believe that will be the opinion of the average user. Windows 8 will sell some tablets but look out the iPad mini is coming than iPad 4 in March. But after the early adopter bump it's a worse than Vista future.



From Paul Allens take on Windows 8 referring to the inability to set Desktop as the default view:

" The goal must have been to encourage people to acclimatize to Windows 8 style immediately."

No, Paul. The goal was to get people to the Microsoft store as quickly as possible.



1. I'm not a power user. Just a gamer. (Kinda sad at that too.)
2. I don't have a touch screen on anything except my mp3 player. When touch screen monitors come down in price enough, I probably will still not buy one. Why? I'm not interested. I like to lean back in my comfy chair and blast a game or three. When I'm leaned back, the screen isn't in reach. Since I'm not getting a touch screen, I don't need a touch screen interface.
3. Tried Win 8 and didn't like it. Just didn't. That's enough for me and I don't need to justify my reasoning to anyone.
4. Finding all the hidden buttons was problematic. If you don't know they are there, how do you know to search for them? I tried to turn it off the first time I loaded it. I finally just held the power button on the computer till it shut down since I couldn't find the OFF button.
5. I want to boot to the desktop not to Metro. I also shouldn't have to resort to a 2nd party program to be able to do that.
I've been an early adopter of all the Windows OS's since Win 3 including ME and Vista. I don't think I will be using 8. If 9 is similar, I may not use it either.


Keith E. Whisman

I want to develop a device that attaches to standard LCD Monitors both stand alone and on laptops that turn them into touch screens. Perhaps the device will power itself and communicate via a USB port. I could market at people that want to get the full use of Windows 8 and can't afford a touch screen monitor or didn't buy a laptop with a touchscreen. I imagine the device will be adjustable and attach with sticky tape. It would be thin so a laptop screen can close without any obstruction. Resolution of the device would have to be around 800*600 or higher.

Windows 8 is a good thing even if you hate it because it will drive invention and innovation that can only help the economy. Something this country desperately needs.



I have no problem with driving innovation. In fact I welcome it.
The problem is this overwhelming concept that we have to embrace it even if it really has no benefits for me or people like me.

Microsoft is taking a heavy handed approach to this whole Win8 UI question. Even having a half hearted ability to boot to the desktop, if you use a third party app, doesn't excuse MSs actions. And in this case other then the new UI and some really minor performance increases I have no reason to upgrade.

As I said in my previous post MS changed a lot of things and I adapted because I had no choice in the matter. For example I loved that with Win9x installs I could select what I installed. You could even not install IE and Outlook express if you didn't want to, but update would throw a hissy until you installed a dll or something. With XP and all versions since it's all or nothing. I don't need any of the features for disabled users, or many of the services that start by default, but MS gave me no choice in the matter, and XP was a needed upgrade.

Even Vista was a must upgrade because of the new driver directX API it came with. And of course Win7 was a must upgrade because of Vista. But tell me again not why I should, without guilting me into it, but why I have to upgrade.

I don't so I won't. Plain and simple.



One thing that stood out for me was the few times he mentioned "I'm sure it will be fixed in the next version." or something along those lines. Right there it speaks volumes about what Win8 really is. A proving ground for new concepts.
A subtext I also noticed was how many of the strange behaviours of Win8 was due to MS trying to make the Start screen both the default and prefered UI.
I just think it's too early to force this much of a UI change onto people that don't need it, ie: everyone who doesn't have a touch screen. I put it in the same arena as WinME with the trying to remove MS-DOS from the operating system concept. It's less about meeting a users need and more about prepping us for when a Win8 style UI is not only the standard, but a needed standard.

Sure there's many things to be pleased about, but for the first time I haven't bothered with a new release at all. I just don't feel the excitement I did when other Windows releases were pending. Most likely because I really don't have an overwhelming need to upgrade. Put me in the same boat as WinXP users, but Win7 produces the same response Win98 SE did. It's finally what it was meant to be and doesn't need improving. I'm not saying that WinXP wasn't an improvement over Win98SE, but I did lose a lot of things I loved about the old Win9x versions. But I adapted and moved on because it was needed at the time.

I fully intend to get a Win8 tablet, most likely running on an Intel/AMD processor. So I will have my own chances to try it out. But till then it's neither a "have to get with the times!" or "they'll take my start menu from my cold dead hands!" issue. More a "Why do I need this one again?" question for me.
So far the answer has been "meh, don't really."


Bullwinkle J Moose

That sounds super

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Show me how to protect myself from these Operating Systems so I won't sound like I'm paranoid of them



I'm sure it's more favorable. The guy probably still ha a shitload of Microsoft Stock :)

IMHO, Win8 is an Albatros.



"Seems to me an albatross was a sign of good fortune. Until some clown decided to go an shoot it." - Malcolm Reynolds (or an allusion to the metaphor in Samuel Colridge's story, if you want to get technical)



I finally bought Portal 2 on Steam a few months ago when it was on sale but for some reason it would not run on my Windows 7 machine. After dealing with Valve support for a month without resolving the problem I installed Windows 8 preview on a spare hard drive. Steam installed fine and Portal 2 ran fine as well. My legacy sound card even worked without any fuss.

My overall impression was good. My only real gripe was just getting used to a different interface. Do I feel the need to immediately upgrade from Windows 7? No.

I am more curious to see how it performs on ARM in a tablet form factor with a touch interface.

Speaking of adapting to new interfaces I do still hate the ribbon bar in Microsoft's Office products.



I had a similar issue with Portal 2 and Windows 7 64 bit OS. Seems that the standard automatic updating from Microsoft to Windows 7 does not automatically install the updates for the 64 bit operating system. Try and go back and manually include those updates to load in windows 7 then try Portal 2 again. Good luck.



All the crying will be gone within 6 months. People don't like to change what they are use to in life. Windows 8 will be second nature to all those who use it long term.



right, like how Vista recovered from the initial impressions after 6 months. Oh wait, it never did.



lol, I miss how a year and a half after Vista came out every person who hated it that I asked why replied with "well, in the beta version..."



Have you tried Windows 8? I have been using it for a couple months now. It doesn't suffer from ANY of the things that Vista did, like poor performance. Windows 8 is a really agile OS, start up times are fast, app launches are quick... The UI is something that isn't even necessary so I'm not sure why people make that the deciding issue of whether or not the OS will fail/succeed.

MS is NEVER going to please everyone. If they tried to cram Windows 7 on a tablet it would be slow and really crappy to navigate. If they make an OS that scales down to tablets while still offering a desktop experience to PC users, they get roasted.



In Win 8 case, it's not a matter of speed or performance, it's a matter of the crappy interface and confusing menu system.

The learning curve is definitely higher than any other Win O/S.

Mark my words, Win 8 will ultimately be in good company with Win ME and Win Vista.
Another year from now, we will all be anticipating the release of Windows 9 which will fix the glaring problems with Win 8.


Keith E. Whisman

I actually enjoyed Windows ME and Windows Vista. I couldn't really find much difference between Window ME and Windows 98 myself. Seemed to me that Windows ME was nothing more than Windows 98 with a healthy service pack. People complained so much about Windows XP I know people that were still using Windows 98 with Windows Vista came out. They were the supposed PC Experts that I had to redirect for conversations about computers because they are idiots. I'll be installing Windows 8 Premium when it's released. In my older years, I'm 40 now, I'm starting to enjoy the smaller things in life and enjoying games less and less now. I really like the active content on the Start Screen kinda like the Widgets on my cell phones. For people that want to just look at their screen and see instant updates quick details will enjoy Windows 8. That's me.



I know what you mean but using that logic, we would never progress if the old way was good enough. I'm not saying that the Metro UI is going to be the greatest thing ever or even succeed but I have to give them credit for trying something different to add to the experience. At one time, the Start button confused people. I'm old enough to have used Windows 3.0 on up and remember the mass confusion when Win95 came out.



I've been using the final version of Windows 8 on my laptop for around a week now and my reaction is basically the same. I have a touchsmart tm2 so I can use it with touch and see how it is meant to be.

I don't care about losing the start menu, metro works fine as a start menu. There are a lot of other neat little touches that were great on Windows 7 that are missing from 8 that I actually miss. It is really, really fast and after around 20-30 minutes everything started to make sense for the most part although it could use a little more tweaking in the useability department. Most things are reasonably easy to find, but some simple things are too buried and hard to find. Instead of the hidden button to get to metro where the start menu used to be I would put an actual button there so new users will know it's actually there. I know you can use the windows key to switch back and forth, but that not necessarily useful if you are logged in remotely.

The biggest problem I ran into was when I went to install rainmeter. I needed .net 3.5, but refused to install it unless I found an installer in the installation media. Luckily I found a blog that detailed what to do and where to find it or it would have taken forever to get there.

I know the cool thing is to whine, cry and through a tantrum just because Metro dares to exist, but if you don't like it just don't use it. Either install one of the start menu replacements or clear out metro except for apps you know you'll use. (it's quick and super easy to do) and use it as a start menu only. If you get past the blind hate there is some great stuff in this OS.



I don't think it's fair to say everyone who dislikes Metro is "whining" and "hating."

The simple fact is that most computer users are NOT us (here on MaxPC, or any number of places where power users hang out). Only the market result (which as this article notes is coming soon) will truly tell whether "the customer" is going to make a storm about the Start menu being gone, etc.

I personally don't like Microsoft's apparent attitude--"This is how our product works, and you will use it this way" (removing the Start menu, disabling the ability to default to desktop). Some Windows 8 evangelists are just as bad--anyone who disagrees "is refusing to learn" or some other come-off that presumes disagreement is automatically inferior. This smacks of "my way or the highway" with no actual justification.

Tablet interfaces on a desktop machine, especially a touch-oriented interface when most desktops lack this feature, seems like a silly decision.

Given that some people need to be instructed on how to find things even with Windows 7's built-in search (or even simpler tasks--try doing tech support for Average Joes and you'll quickly lose faith in humanity), I think Windows 8's moves will only confuse them.

The problem is choice, or in this case, lack of. I could see in Windows 9 completely removing the desktop and switching to Metro/Modern if it's a success on 8, but to jar people like this seems like a bad idea. Plus, not everything opens in Metro either. It kicks you over to desktop mode to use the control panel, IIRC.



power users like us definitely don't have a problem figuring windows 8 out. I installed it on my girlfriend's laptop (she's the polar opposite, I have to help her figure out her iPhone and MS Word sometimes), but she likes it fine. She definitely had trouble figuring out how to turn it off at first (instead of hitting Win+C to get the charms bar, she goes to the start screen and then logs out to see the power off option) but besides that no real confusion. She actually liked the start screen because it's something new and shiny, even if she doesn't use it that much. I showed her the Surface commercial and now she wants one of those instead of an iPad



Thank you for putting so many words in my mouth. I don't remember saying "everyone" anyway in my post and I am certainly not a windows 8 evangelist, just pointed out my experience with it, agreed it has some useability issues and just stated it's an overall solid OS.

Oh, and I do tech support for people that I would classify as less tech savvy that average joes, and they will be confused no matter what get's put out, why why hold progress back?

I agree about the lack of choice, but in the days where hackers can produce a change faster than microsoft can get their own product out the door, maybe it's not a big deal.

I don't think any really complains about people not willing to learn, it's all the idiots running going "I used it for a whole 15 minutes, omg it suxxs" that gets really annoying.



Thank you for accusing me of what you are yourself are doing. I never said YOU made those claims, only that people who bash those who refuse to adopt/like Windows 8 make those claims. If you choose to view the opinions of those who are arguably the worst of the Win8 evangelists as your own, and thus have grounds for being insulted, feel free.

Furthermore, you're doing exactly what I said is a problem: you are beginning with the assumption that Windows 8 is in fact, progress. I'm deeply skeptical of a half-assed touch-intended-but-runs-on-many-non-touch-things OS. I do NOT think it's progress, but only the market can be the total judge of that.

Vista was lauded as progress--it flopped. Why? Because it was a ham-handed mess. Was it actually as bad as it's being made out to be? No. But the presentation left a lot to be desired, therefore when people said "I love Windows 7" some Vista fans came back and said "We told you so." Except, that claim wasn't valid--many of Vista's core features were/are part of 7 but the presentation (and driver support) is worlds better.

I think Windows 8 is going to have the same problem--solid foundation but problematic presentation. Windows 9 will make everything work, if the Vista/7 pattern is followed.

In fact, people have complained about people "not willing to learn." On a certain other tech site (hint: the first part of the name rhymes with "lard"--I'm not sure what the policy here is about linking to or discussing other sites), there exists a group who believes Windows 8 is Inexorable Progress, those who are against it are troglodytes, etc.

My experience with it was negative. The transitions between desktop-and-Metro are obnoxious. I maintain my argument that it's half-baked. My guess is that they're trying to hide parts of the "nitty gritty" from the user, such as backup (which is not a native Metro app). That's annoying.

I don't care if you give me a turbo 'vette/Camaro/insert-dream-car here, if it's got a gonzo paint job and an interior that looks like someone exploded the hardware store's paint collection, I'm not taking it. That's what Windows 8 is to me. Great car, atrocious visuals.



I have tried the consumer preview a few times throughout the last year (installing and using on my own machines) and I dislike it. The absence of the old start menu and being replaced with "Metro" is a horrible idea for any time of power user (e.g. Hardcore gamer, business people, etc...). How they think it's better, I have no idea. If we all had tablets/smartphones, ya great idea, but on a conventional desktop/laptop (laptop sans touch display), it's extremely annoying and pointless.



Every power user I know rarely uses the start button... it's hit the Windows key and search for the program/utility you need to use.

I use the RTM version in a dual screen setup currently, there's some fantastic features that power users will definitely utilize, for example...

- being able to natively mount an ISO or a VHD
- the new task manager is extremely robust and phenomenal
- built in task bar for dual screen support, being able to duplicate your task bar or items showing up that are only open on your other monitor
- the speed is fantastic, I honestly didn't think I would notice much, but I definitely have
- file transfers give you a much more information
- the new explorer bar for file systems is nice as well
- I use this machine 6 hours a day, I see Metro once, for about 3 seconds

This is where all of your "Metro" apps are located btw, this helped me get a few things I wanted on my desktop.
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs



drilling down around trying to find stuff in the start menu when you have a lot of stuff installed is really quicker? Start menu is definitely better for stuff you use regularly that isn't pinned to the taskbar but seems like a limited issue to get all worked up over. Most power users will have their important programs pinned anyway.

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