OCZ Opens Additional SSD Plant

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jakesty@aol.com

It happened just a few years ago to Nvidia and ATI when they secretly established a higher cost for their cards, communicating behind the scenes.  They were fined back in 2006 for this.  Of course this is especially true for companies that have a monopoly which together they still do today.

In the SSD market there are a number of companies selling cards.  The Sandforce chipset is used by all of the faster cards out there, and they tend to have a monopoly.  But if they didn't sell any cards at all they wouldn't be making any kind of revenue and they are fighting competition in both the ssd market and the HD market, so they can't charge too much so as to reduce demand.

 

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Keith E. Whisman

Finally prices are going to start coming down. OCZ is going to have to be more competitive price wise to sell their products and that is going to drive others to lower their prices to compete. This works out great unless there is some sort of illegal price fixing scheme going on like with the LCD manufacturers. Hell, I think the LCD manufacturers are still price fixing, they are making so much money they can afford to simply pay the fines when they get charged. If they are making a huge profit then it's logical to just take the small hit every couple years. 

SSD's I hope will stay away from price fixing but it can happen especially considering how much profit they make off these things compared to the cost of manufacture.

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someone87

It's the free market (well kinda), and you are free to charge what you want. It's your company, and I contest the government is committing a criminal action by fining private companies for what they charge for their products. The government needs to get out of private business, and prices will come down (as explained below) and the consumer (you and I) will get better products and prices. That goes for every industry, healthcare, cars, tech, everything.

Price fixing is made up by people who think all companies are evil, and need to be finned and shut down. Trust me.

The reason people claim price fixing happens (it really doesn't) is because companies are greedy. And that logic doesn't work out

Imagine your 1, of 10 companies that got together and agreed to charge 100$ for a 50$ item. 1, of those 10 companies would get smart, see there is a huge market void, and charge 75$, dominate the market raking in way more sales and profit than the others. Remember, (other than very specialty items like the Bugatti Veyron) profits are made in QTY, not price. And if a company is "greedy" as some claim, they would do anything possible to sell more QTY. It's just how it works. Don't argue with me unless you have ran, or owned your own business, and been involved in marketing. That's how it works, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have real world experience, and is just naive.

The more product company A sells, the less company B sells, the more product company A has out there, the bigger their name will get, and the more market force they build, the more their stocks will go up. It's just how it works. Any company (within reason) will do anything to sell more product, so why would they agree to set their prices the same as everyone else, and give up sales?

Even if price fixing happens as people claim (companies get together and all agree to charge X price for the same product) it would still have to be a reasonable price. If every single LCD maker in the world, charged too much for a certain item, 10 other companies would start up, and make LCD's. If there is a void in the market (either in product, idea or price) that void will be filled because there are enough smart business men around, with enough start up money, who will jump at the opportunity to make a few $$$$$$ on a new product line.

So even if price fixing does happen as some claim, it is still a "good deal" otherwise competition would rise up and cut them off at their knees.

That's the way it is.

-A business man who knows about this stuff.

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deadsenator

LOL!  I had a good laugh over this one.  It's quite comical and ironic to see someone blurt out and blather on about how much they know something when they really are unaware of the truth.  I won't claim to know everything since it is foolish to do so, but I would suggest you re-examine your position on this issue.

People don't just "claim" that price fixing might be occurring, but companies have been "convicted" of price fixing and brought to task for it.  Are you fresh out of school or something?  You honestly sound like a Young Republican Brown Shirt. 

A natural base human tendency is towards greedy behavior.  It's a safety and security thing.  The more one has, the safer they may feel.  Businesses are no exception to this.  They are made up of people.  If you think companies won't conspire toward that same greedy behavior, you are far more naive than you claim others to be.

Another thing the world will teach you as you move along is that there are many shades of grey to everything.  Nothing is black and white.  Claiming such is denying many other truths about life and shoving your head in the sand.

I am not meaning to insult you, but you sound a bit naive about life.  It should not be about business first people second.  It's people first.  Always.

 

 

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someone87

Sorry, I didn't mean to claim price fixing has never happened, or that people haven't been guilty of it, in the history of mankind. But rather it doesn't work/happen the way people claim. I also didn't mean "greed" doesn't exist, but rather most have the wrong definition, or think it's one thing when it is something else. I can see why I left you with that impression, for that I apologize. My goal was to offer a correct definition to the the terms used, and show how the general idea's people have, and the terms they use to talk about those ideas are wrong and don't work/apply in real life/business. I admit people/business are greedy, I said so by stating that "Any company (within reason) will do anything to sell more product." That's "greed" if you want to call it that. But if you call that greed, then I get to call you greedy when you ask your boss for a raise, they are both the same thing in the end.

Being a business owner, I'll do anything possible (while not being dishonest or illegal) to further my business. Am I "greedy" because of that, sure. But my "greed" will look like lower prices, better business policies, better customer care, and so on. I'll pay/treat my employees as good as possible so they do a good job for me, and stay around. It never means higher prices unless I sell a unique product that nobody else has. In that instance the market will bear a higher price so I'll charge more, because there is no competition. But that doesn't apply to what we are talking about because there are no voids in the LCD market, and competition is already established.

I am simply trying to point out that if the free market is allowed to function in a truly free way, then "greed" will look totally different than you, and most others think. It will always exist yes, but simply charging more will drive customers away, and shrink their over all use base.

It sounds like your more interested in politics than business. I am not debating politics here, but am simply a business man, have been my entire life, and understand how these things work. I have no idea what a "Republican Brown Shirt" is BTW. I'll Google it in a sec.....

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deadsenator

Okay, I should retract my brownshirt comment.  It was probably more insulting than I intended it to be.  Your first post merely set me off in that direction because it seemed so myopic and business centric. 

At least now we are getting somewhere.  I do not own a business as you do, but one does not need to be a business owner to recognize a good one or a bad one.  Or even to recognize good and bad practices.  Price fixing does sometimes occur and is bad.  On this we are agreed, it would appear. 

But I think a point in which we do disagree would appear to be that you feel that a market should be absolutely "free".  First of all, I think that "free" can mean many things in the capitalist market, but secondly and more importantly, I think it's also shown to have problems when left on its own.  No system can be purely left on it's own, whatever it might be.  The natural direction towards greed is too strong.  There should always be an independent auditor of activities to make sure that the people at the end (the consumer) are not being taken advantage of.  Too much power ends up being aggregated in a large business where the little people have no control and very little power to affect any changes.  BTW, the US government itself needs this auditing, as well.

I will also concur that greed is everywhere.  I don't ask my boss for raises.  When I was younger it seemed important, but these days I am not as concerned with such things.  I consider my pay fair.  Not to criticize too much but the idea of "what the market will bear" WRT price is a good example of greed.  Is the price for your product fair?  A fair price allows you to pay your employees, cover your expenses and turn a profit.  If you raise your price simply because the market will bear it is a somewhat different form of greed than if you raised prices because of paying your employees more or the cost of materials has risen or you cannot meet your own living expenses.  Do you follow?  It's greed all the way through for a variety of reasons, but some reasons are through necessity and some are not.  I hope I am making sense.

Regardless, I applaud your business etiquette with regards to how you treat employees.  The tenet of valuing your employees is a strength of all good businesses.  Bravo.

 

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someone87

A few quick points.

1. Every issue of late, housing, medical, auto, etc, has been caused by the government interfering one way or another. Simply put, no business man would extend himself so far that his company would collapse, were it not for outside pressures. Auto for instance, the unions run. I love unions, and have no issue with them, my issue is the government protects them. As soon as laws are in place that force Ford or GM to do what the unions want, the tables have turned and the wolves are now guarding the sheep. Same with housing, no bank would issue sub-prime loans, because it's like slitting your own throat. But the government forced them to do so, which basically (a few other details) caused the crash.

2. The government is not a good body to regulate the free market because the government is not for profit, meaning they don't have to make decisions on what's best for us, or business because they run off taxes. The free market is for profit, and will always make the best decision for business. As far as the free market standing on it's own, or who would keep the free market in check? The answer is simple, the free market will. As we established before, competition will prevent a company from charging too much, lest they get under-cut. I think of "a free market" as unregulated, and one that's the government doesn't interfere with. That doesn't say they can be dis-honest, lie cheat or steal, and if a contact is made, it should be up-help per the law. But without regulation is what I think of as "free".

3. To the subject at hand, I agree that price fixing may happen, I don't think it's always 100% bad, and since it doesn't work (at least not for long) I don't see it as an issue that us, the consumer, or the US government needs to worry about.

4. I agree you may not need to own a company to recognise a good/bad one, but I do think you need to own/run/be in some kind of management to understand the finer workings of business, markets, supply and demand, and how business works. IMO

Thanks for the dialog.

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