Nvidia's GTX 480M Will Beat Up Your Mobile Graphics, Steal Your Lunch Money

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133794m3r

nvidia cards burn you when you use them. I'm currently getting ready to go ATI for the rest of my life. The extra speed of the GPU does not warrant 100*C+ temps on the gpu within the first year. And i'm not talking about "amazing" games either. I'm talking about some wow tests i did when i was trying it then used their "come back and try it during the 5 year anniversary" playtime i used it and tried it to see if anything was worth it spent my free time and left once more for good. Any 3d application and it goes up to 100*C+ temps with the CPU going up to ~70*C(due to asus' poor design of the machine and having the gpu being cooled by the cpu fan's hot air and also the whole single fan issue). Combine this with how this has happened on 4 different laptops one after another. I say that it's nvidia's fault(i originally thought it was asus) but now thta there's 2 different gpus in it(and they underclocked the thing by ~100mhz) i think it's safe to say that it's nvidia's fault for not knowing how to kill people with their mobile gpus. Idle temps now a days are ~60*C wherein at the very very start was ~40*C i also clean it out monthly with a can of compressed air.

This doesn't seem to help much though as nvidia love's some high temps. My old laptop(going on 6 years old now i stopped using going on 2 years ago) never went above 45*C and it had everything all within itself. I knew that it wasn't a gaming grade laptop but it was well worht it as it was my first computer that i actually owned. I thought it was doing bad with it's temps of 45*C after a heavy duty gaming session. It idled at ~20*C the 30*C for most of its life.

Nvidia gpus although supposedly better are huger power eaters that also then affect the average operating temperature and also the battery life of the machine serverly.

Nvidia's dead to me. I don't really care that they have better linux drivers(or did last time i checked) i'd rather trade of a bit of 3d performance for the ability to not have to keep it on a chill pad and then have that off of my lap to be able to use it. A laptop non-desktop replacement should be able to be on your lap that's what the thing is meant to be used for anyone who disagrees is a fool.

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Keith E. Whisman

Alot of people just don't understand that this chip is really cut back from the prolific desktop GPU. It doesn't have as many cores as the desktop variant and the clocks are set way back as well. This chip should run quite cool and should have a fairly low power draw. That said a laptop with this GPU isn't exactly going to be your run of the mill business laptop. This is for that gaming laptop or desktop replacement you've been dreaming about. Expect about 2 to 3 hours of run time on battery depending on your power saving schemes your laptop is setup to use. 

Perhaps replace that Nvidia GForce 335 in that gaming netbook with this thing and get some really good gaming.

This GPU along with a CULV Core I5 Dual Core with HT and 4gigs of ram and a 400gig SSD with a sandforce controller and a 9cell battery and you'll probably get about 6 to 8 hours of gaming on an 12" netbook with an OLED display. 

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Thursday

nVidia has not confirmed the TDP on this chip, but Eurocom has pegged it at 100W, which is MASSIVE for a mobile chip. For comparison, the high end ATI part is still a burner at 50W. The effect on power draw will be huge.

For comparison, the Alienware m17x with a 12 cell battery and a much lower powered 260m gets less than an hour on full charge. A unit using a 480m is going to be paired with a high end processor and a big screen (probably at least a 17") to accomodate the cooling system. With a TDP that high the fan will be going all the time so you don't cook your balls playing solitare. If you see battery life of an hour or an hour and a half that will be impressive.

Anyway, there is a refresh due on the XPS and Alienware lineup from Dell. When I see the spec sheets and service manuals on any models with a 480m I'll post whatever info I can.

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Caboose

  You're being too generous. An hour to an hour and a half? I'll be
surprised if they make 45min. But, as Danthrax66 has CLEARLY pointed out, if you buy a gaming laptop, you can't expect long battery life. You should basically be happy that you can run the damn thing and leave it at that!

I'm afraid to see what kind of laptop he'd create if he could...

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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Thursday

yeah that's why I said it would be impressive. I'm thinking more like 45-60 minutes under moderate load when paired with todays high end processors, even if they are CULV. Would definately like to see one paired with a new Intel i560m though with all it's new power management features. Still would probably never get close to two hours though...lol

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Danthrax66

I bet none of you have ever heard of clevo or knew you could build a laptop god maximumpc has turned into a bunch of novice pc users and apple fans.

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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Sebie Kay

Come on, man, lighten up.  With all of the foul posting and ranting that you do on this website, you seem to still be in high school (or at least need to return to high school). 

With that said, don't bash others just because they aren't as knowledgable as you.  Not all of us are lucky enough to have an IT manager's job.  I'm a trained CCNA, but with the economy the way it is, I'm working in a warehouse.  It's not in my field, but it pays the bills, provides for my family, and allows me to keep looking for something in my field.

Just lighten up a little dude, and accept that sometimes, others know more than you do.  Oh, and drop the foul mouth.  Again, it sounds like you need to be in high school.

Just my 2 cents worth to try to help get the posts back to the 'Will Smith' era.  It seems like after Will left, the site went down hill.  :S  Sorry MAX PC, but thats the truth!

-=Do unto others... THEN RUN!!=-

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Caboose

 "Not all of us are lucky enough to have an IT manager's job"

 You know, in my experience (and I'm sure plenty of others), the head of the IT department rarely knows what the hell they're talking about or doing when it comes to IT stuff...

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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Thursday

Dude I have seen more dead nVidia based laptops that you could possibly imagine. And no, ATI does not have the same problem with their mobile parts. Intel does not have the same problem with mobile parts. nVidia has a track record of unreliable mobile parts. HP had a huge number of units affected by bad nVidia chipsets and VGA parts. Apple had two full years of Macbooks and Macbook Pros affected by bad VGA parts. Both manufactures extended the warranty of these units AND nVidia paid for all repairs. Why would nVidia eat the costs if it was not 100% their fault? ASUS discontinued a complete line of laptop units and DIY kits due to extremly high failure rates of chipsets and VGA parts. Acer came a very close second to HP in total number of failed units with three full series with defective nVidia chipsets. See the pattern here? 

I am completely all for power and speed but when it comes to a laptop, it has to be reliable. I can replace a laptop motherboard or GPU with my eyes closed, but that is because that is a major part of my job. The majority of computer owners, even "power users", would not want to be doing this type of repair. Even if they could, getting the correct parts is sometimes tricky and almost always very expensive. It's not like if your laptop VGA card fails you can just go grab another one off the shelf. Even if the part would physically fit, most laptops are closed environments, designed with strict power requirements and thermal thresholds.

Desktop units are a complete different story, but for my money, my laptop will have an ATI VGA chip and an Intel chipset. Until nVidia can show they can make a reliable mobile part I will not purchase a system that uses either their chipset or VGA chip.

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jetbruceli

I dont know where you are getting your facts from but since I can remember I have had nothing but great success with Nvidia VGA's on laptops. I currently own a clevo d901c with 2 9800m gt's in sli. At the time, it was the best offering of a good desktop replacement. It has survived a deployment to Iraq. It's still running strong.

This new 480m is just what Nvidia needed to release to keep those of us who need a mobile hight end gaming machine.

 I just wonder if I can pick one of these up from Eurocom to replace my 9800m GT's!

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Thursday

Ok I didn't see that it was a different user that posted the reply to my post. You (Jetbruceli) weren't telling people to STFU and read so please don't take offence. But I stand by my original statement that I personally am sticking with ATI for laptops at least, until nVidia can prove to me that their architecture is sound in a mobile environment.

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Thursday

I work in the industry fixing these things when they fail. I have my degree in Electronics Engineering Technology. I am certified by HP/Compaq, Dell, Apple, Acer/Gateway, Toshiba and Sony to fix their machines under warranty. I have access to engineering documents and revisions as well as technical field service bulletins describing failures in great detail so I can determine whether or not to repair a board or just order a replacement.

Not to be a dick, but when you rag on everybody here about not knowing what the hell they are talking about, while you yourself are talking out of your ass, it kind of pisses me off. You have a 9800m SLI laptop. Congrats, that is one of the few mobile GPU's made by nVidia that wasn't torched by the bad insulator/substrate issues that has plauged their parts the past three+ years. The 260 and 280 have also been somewhat reliable, just not in SLI.

I can honestly say that in the past three years, barely a single day has gone by where I did not see either a dead Acer, HP or Dell XPS with either a nVidia chipset failure or a crapped out VGA card. I just pulled a report detailing the number of HP units I repaired under CSE 07122001 for just the chipset issue and even I was shocked. In three years I either repaired or facilitated (shipped to HP) 634 of these units. That is nearly one for every working day (0.88 per day according to my report). I replaced 102 Apple MacBook or MBP Logic Board Assemblies under regular or extended warranty in that timeframe and 229 XPS units. The XPS units are not all for the VGA failure, as some may also be for things like bad hard drives but I would put it around 50% being the VGA fault. These numbers do not include the HP VGA Board failures (because I cannot track those quickly) nor does it include things like the Toshiba X200 SLI VGA Failures. But these are the numbers I have on hand to quickly back up my claims.

For comparison, I went through the past three months and did not find a single ATI VGA Board ordered with the exception of two desktop parts with bad fans under warranty. There may have been boards integrated into Motherboards but no descrete VGA parts.

So before you go and tell everybody to do some research and shut the fuck up, you should do your own research first. Even a quick google search of 8600m overheating or nVidia chipset failure will turn up hundreds of thousands of hits. Hell, google 07122001 if you want. This is an internal reference number for the confidencial HP service alert that was not released to the public. You will see a few scattered hits on message boards referencing this alert. Just in case you doubt what I am telling you is the truth.

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Danthrax66

"Electronics Engineering Technology"

 

So you have a degree from a two-year school, Big deal, and getting certified to fix dell/hp/whoever laptops isn't difficult. And you can't say the 5870 doesn't run hot it does so your argument is pointless both chip makers have hot running laptop parts the reason why there are more dead nvidia laptops is because they sell more laptop graphics cards, again none of you look at actual statistics. And the only bad nvidia gpus were pre 9-series cards. Yes the 8000 series had a problem I said that it is known but like I said hp made it worse by not properly applying thermal pads. And besides it wasn't the heat per say it was the poor implementation of chip material.

 

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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Thursday

it was a four year course with a one year paid co-op. I also completed a one year post grad in microelectronics. Unfortunately, due to the shite economy, I had to take a job with a big box retailer fixing units for manufactuers and extended warranty to pay the bills after the company I was working for got bought out and moved overseas. Having two babies makes you take whatever you can get really.

And your friend may have had an issue with the thermal pad but they wouldn't make that mistake hundreds of thousands of times. If you would like to read up on the issue, one of the best articles was posted by The Inquirer here:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1028703/nvidia-g84-g86-bad

Also, the 5870 DOES run hot. But it doesn't OVERHEAT and die. Constantly.

 

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Keith E. Whisman

Awesome. You have the career I wanted but I'm just not smart enough for higher learning. Your data is alarming and the numbers don't lie. I was just wondering in your opinion what is the likelihood of a failure based on the numbers. What I'm getting at is that yes there is a high failure rate among nvidia mobile parts but not all nvidia parts fail. If I buy a laptop today with nvidia parts even a laptop loaded with all the parts that fail the most there is a chance that I will never have a failure.

Like the Toyota recall you can own a car that is recalled and never have a problem with it and your neighbor with the same car made the same day can blow up in his face.

This is the problem I don't really understand is that with todays assembly line manufacturing techniques where parts all look the same and have the same dimensions and are interchangeable. Why do electronics fail? Is it Heisenberg's uncertainty principle at work where at the nano scale funny things happen that cause some micro electronics to fail or is it just the lithography sucks? Conductors short circuiting because the insulator failed? 

It's very interesting. I think that it is safe to purchase an Nvidia based laptop. You have a risk of failure but I don't think it's likely. You are more likely to let the smoke out of your electronics when you first startup out of the box. Anything can happen. I would buy an Nvidia equipped laptop. 

I going off of the laws of averages. Say that 1million Nvidia equipped laptops are sold and 100,000 fail that is a chance of failure of 1 in 10. Those odds suck but you are still unlikely to be one of the 100,000 simply because 900,000 is an awful large number. You are more likely to be among the 900,000 that don't have problems. It's like poker. Playing black jack. There are more face cards in a deck than any other card. So if you see that the dealer is showing a face card then you should hit to try to beat 20 because that dealer is likely to have a 10 or another face card. Same thing if the dealer is showing a 7 or higher then you should hit because of the likelihood of the dealer holding a face card. I'm sure alot of nvidia's parts have failed but I bet on the odds. If it's a failure of 1 in 10 then I bet I will be one of the 9 that work great. 

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Thursday

Using your 1 million sold number as a guide, then in the first year you would have seen 250,000 fail. After two years, it would be about 400,000. After that, by the fourth year you would see nearly 850,000-900,000 of these units dead or with some form of damage. One of the common faults was that the unit would stop detecting the wireless card, as the card mount was directly beside the chipset and for some reason it was usually the first thing to fail. There is a reason people are talking class action lawsuit about this.

With the current 240m part your numbers are closer to what is happening. 10% failure is still more than double what should fail.

As to what caused the failure, it was mostly nVidia's fault. They missed on the performance marks they were aiming for so they brute forced it with a clock bump without improving the substrate material or insulating material to withstand the extra heat. There are rumblings that a frequency bump in the mobile 200 series parts is what is causing premature failures in units with SLI as well. From the specs for this chip it seems to me that nVidia is actually playing it safe and may have learned from their lesson. At least I certainly hope so!

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Scootiep

FYI Danthrax66 and Jetbrucli, Thursday just kicked your collective asses on this argument so many times over you should have trouble sitting down until the next mobile nVidia GPU is released. However, I will say that I have owned mainly ATI mobile GPUs and this time I will be getting an nVidia one. It's about time for me to give them a chance again.

To start press any key...ohh, where's the "Any" key. - Homer Simpson

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Danthrax66

How is that those chips that were bad were in circulation 4 years ago nvidia has rectified the problem. As he himself admitted. This islike saying ati's drivers are still horrible when they haven't been for a while.

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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Thursday

4 years ago eh? How about the 240m that is also cooking bacon right now and failing where ever they are used?

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Thursday

The general failure rate of a motherboard "in service" should be 2-4% within the first year, progressing on a parabolic curve as they age...most machines reach about a 15-20% failure rate after approximately 5 years. These numbers are an average, but this is what most manufacturers base their warranty coverage on, and what your run of the mill big box store will base the price of their extended warranty plans on.

First year of the chipset faults that was covered under the customer service enhancement was in the neighbourhood of 25% failure, with well over 40% failure within the two years. After two years it got real ugly, which is why I think nVidia only agreed to pay for the repairs for the additional year on top of the original warranty. What's even worse, is the repeat failure rate is also very high, indicating that the reworked parts are just as unreliable, even with updated the BIOS and fan control that was supposed to reduce the failures.

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Larzs13

So how do you like your eggs sunny side up, fried, or scrambled and would you like a side of bacon or sausage with that too. 

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aviaggio

Sniff... sniff... anyone else smell an Nvidia troll?

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Danthrax66

And my argument can be applied to the 5870m too since they both produce similar heat I am basically defending a gaming laptop against netbook users. It's maximumpc for fucks sake I smell a bunch of weakasspc trolls.

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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Danthrax66

I own a 5870 from ati so no I'm not a fanboy I'm someone who cares about the fastest technology and makes commenst based on the title of this site maximumpc not second place pc. You can say it runs hot all you want but so does ati in notebooks. My point is don't make statements without looking stuff up this is the fastest card and puts out similar heat to the 5870m desktop cards play no part in notebook graphics for desktops ati has the cooler less expensive card with the best price for performance. But in notebooks nvidia is king, and that is a fact.

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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dc10ten

battery life will probably be 15 min. and require huge fans. so desktop replacement, sure, portability, questionable.

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Danthrax66

exactly.

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aviaggio

And the point of buying a laptop that never moves is...???

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Danthrax66

And they still make and sell these because? Oh because there are a demand and you don't know what you are talking about. You can move from room to room it is a gaming laptop just like a laptop with a 5870. It is lighter than a desktop you can take it to lans easier. This isn't designed for working or gaming on battery no laptop games on battery. So if you are looking to do office work on a plain get integrated graphics. Also power of a desktop when space is a concern or when you work in the field a lot (core i7 takes lots of power too).

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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Danthrax66

This is maximumpc not small form factor low heat pc everyone on this site should be thrilled for this, yet we have a bunch of people on here complaining about heat who gives a fuck maybe you should go on minimumpc or some dumb shit like that (I would say maclife but we all know the new macs overheat). Seriously stfu that isn't the point of this graphics card.

 

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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dc10ten

"I would say maclife but we all know the new macs overheat" 

that would be because they mostly use Nvidia graphics sir

and you want other people to stfu 'cause we have a different opinion? I'm not saying you don't have valid points, but you are only accomplishing insults and to no end. 

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Danthrax66

actually if you would have looked up anything at all you would see that the nvidia gpus aren't a factor in the overheating issues it is the i7 quad cores getting to 100c because apple uses little heatsinks. And no I want you to shut up because you make post without doing any fucking research or thought and ebery post you make goes against the ideals of this site because according to you amd makes gpus that run as cold as ice and everything from nvidia catches on fire. And I'm fucking tired of this dumb shit do some research before making blanket statements about something or citing incorrect data.

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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Caboose

 So, all those nVidia GPU's that have overheated in non-Apple PC's don't count then eh?

 nVidia is well known for having power hungry very hot GPU's. Both in the descrete and mobile market. I don't care of it's a gaming laptop or an office machine. When the GPU heats up to the point where you can feel it radiating through the keyboard, that's an issue. When there are warning stickers on the laptop and paper leafletts in the box warning you to not place the machine on exposed skin due to the high-risk of burning, that's a problem!

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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Scootiep

Sorry Hoss, but you're wrong, both of my wife's powerbooks nVidia mobile GPU dies have cracked due to heat issues and had to be replaced. The GPU heat (whether they list it or not) is an issue and a big one.

To start press any key...ohh, where's the "Any" key. - Homer Simpson

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dankers

how do you calculate how many "gigaflops" in a gpu?

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k11k

Just got a roomate who bought a Asus gamer notebook with 360M. Man does that thing heat up like hell. I left my water bottle new the heat pipe and I swear I can see it start to boil, even had it on a cooling dock (wouldn't dare place it on lap). Even on idle it would heat up and you hear the fan spin, postive it can play any game, but battery life really suck (1.25 hrs max if even).

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Danthrax66

Well if you bought a gaming laptop to be portable you are foolish they all get hot don't think that amd magically stays cooler and provides the same frame rates because they don't. Gaming laptop with an ati or nvidia card = hot as fuck end of story.

 

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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k11k

Hey dumbass did I say it was mine. I wouldn't touch a gaming labtop, my PC has all my money.

Read,Read,process,then speak with ur mouth and not thru ur ass.

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Danthrax66

I love uneducated people making speculation on a product that isn't out based on the desktop counterpart which this card will not be like the goal of the 480 is to compete with sli solutions at a lower cost in laptops this beats the 260/360 sli from the last generation at less power and heat. And if you are posting it's the fastest but it runs hot then you aren't in the market for this card or any high end gaming laptop for that matter they all run hot. The purpose of this card is for laptops that go from one place being plugged in to another as in a light lan box but with a built in screen. And the mobile 5870 runs hot too but is no where as good as this.

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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aviaggio

There is a difference between "running hot" and "will burn the flesh off your genitals".

As the part is based on the current Fermi technology I can't see how it WON'T run super hot and consume a stupid amount of power.

If Nvidia could get a superior level of performance without the heat and power why don't we see that tech in the desktop Fermis? Because they can't do it.

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dc10ten

to be fair, it is the first iteration of a completely new architexture with a lot of potential. obviosly there is some tweaking that needs to be done with the desktop parts, but perhaps the tweaking they have accomplished has gone into the laptop part. (wishful thinking on my part but...)

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Danthrax66

They are completely different chips so no you shouldn't pass judgement on the mobile part based on the desktop part the architecture doesn't cause the heat it is roughly the same as the 285 architecture with more focus on cores they found more useful. This chip will probably produce the same heat as the 280m and be the same size but since they shrunk the die size there will be more transistors producing more fps. And as always this is just a copy and paste from either gizmodo or engadget so here is a little bit more depth: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3740/nvidia-announces-gtx-480m And also there are tighter restrictions on notebook graphics cards so expect this to be fairly tame in terms of heat and power use.

 

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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dc10ten

might even have people wanting the mobile part in their desktop. lol

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Caboose

If we look at nVidia's current history of desktop and mobile GPU's, then it's a pretty safe bet that this one will run very hot! Even if it is a mobile part...

Wasn't it nVidia that had a recall of GPU's because they were overheating and the sodder was breaking?

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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Danthrax66

Actually my friend had one of those faulty gpus but hp didn't include his model in the recall so we opened it up and we found the thermal pad wasn't applied properly and it had been running for 3 years with the thermal pad on wrong so who's fault is the gpu overheating? HP. That problem was from a flaw in the design of the chip/socket thus the recall they have fixed the problem because they 260/280m ran hotter and didn't have that problem. If they would use actual thermal paste instead of silly putty that is inefficient at transferring heat laptops wouldn't die right after the warranty expires they plan this shit so it dies. Oh and don;t claim that the 5870 mobile chip runs cool http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo-reviews-owners-lounges/465201-clevo-w870cu-review-ati-5870m.html 90c isn't low temps the 480 will probably be the same. Also battery life shouldn't be an issue with i5 laptops since they could use the nvidia optimus technology to completely shut off power to the discrete card when there is no load on the graphics.

 

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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iamlilysdad

not every I5/nvidia gpu combo is optimus.  it has to be specifically designed for that.

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Danthrax66

Yes but they could make it that way if they wanted to but again they probably won't because the audience that would want that isn't buying a gaming laptop. These will be paired with i7's most likely.

 

Live, Learn, and Shut the Fuck Up. 

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aviaggio

Yeppers.

/em glances at dead Nvidia Go 7600 laptop in the closet

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gendoikari1

Sterility much?

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aviaggio

Weight: 8 pounds. With power brick: 19 pounds.

Comes with 6 cell lithium ion battery. Average battery life: 4 minutes.

Requires mobile refrigeration dock (not included).

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Caboose

No need to cook your eggs and bacon at home, now fry them on the go! Fire up your laptop with a 480m, set some benchmarking on loop and get your breakfast ready while you go to work!

Just be sure that your car see isn't flammable...

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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