Newspaper Tracks Down Anonymous Commenter, Gets Him Fired Just for Fun
Posted 11/18/09 at 06:21:26 PM by Pulkit Chandna
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Many online commenters try and compensate for their lack of insight into the subject at hand by summoning their ability to enliven even the most vapid discussion with a highly stimulating cocktail of profanities. But not everyone can fully relish this amazing ability as not everyone possesses it. The practitioners of this colorful art are often persecuted by the prim archpriests of insipid internet discussions.
An anonymous commenter paid with his job for what was an earnest attempt to breathe some life into a discussion on a newspaper’s site. Last Friday, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch published a blog post titled “What’s the craziest thing you’ve ever eaten? And did you like it?” One anonymous user replied with “a single word, a vulgar expression for a part of a woman’s anatomy.” But his terse reply was deleted within one minute of being posted (probably for being way too brief). The obdurate commenter returned to repost his single-word comment, only to have it deleted once again.
But the paper’s director of social media, Kurt Greenbaum, who had posted the concerned article, managed to track down the anonymous poster using the WordPress e-mail alert that accompanies every comment. The alert included the commenter's IP address, which was found to be from a local school.
“About six hours later, I heard from the school’s headmaster. The school’s IT director took a shine to the challenge. Long story short: Using the time-frame of the comments, our website location and the IP addresses in the WordPress e-mail, he tracked it back to a specific computer. The headmaster confronted the employee, who resigned on the spot,” Greenbaum wrote in a blog post on Monday. Was it right on the paper’s part to pursue an anonymous commenter? If yes, then what is the point of allowing anonymous comments? Have your say without the fear of getting fired.
Image Credit: Bio Job Blog
WTF???
Submitted by Nocturnius on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 11:32am
This guy,(greenbaum)from the newspaper apparently has waaay too much time on his hands.What a sad "pc" world we live in,when a one word joke can get you fired from your job!Doesn't anyone remember the phrase"sticks and stones"?And another thing,he probably knows nothing about the individual who he "put the screws to".Coulda been some psycho mensa member,hell bent on trolling for internet for people against free speech!
Submitted by Trooper_One on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 12:45pm
Couldn't they simply ban that IP address? It's one thing for a troll being childish but is it fair for him to lose his job over this? (yea, he 'resigned' but who knows if a gun was pointed at him). There is a lack of due process in this case.
Submitted by Biceps on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 10:38am
Well, this might get me fired, but I think that the newspaper should absolutely have tracked the guy down. Then, instead of getting him fired, the author of the article should have waited in the parking lot outside the dude's work at closing time and challenged him to a duel. That duel should have been posted on YouTube and on the paper's website.
If a simple clause were added to the privacy agreement on websites that said someting like: "If you act like an idiot on our boards, we will hunt you down and kick your ass, and then put it on YouTube", I think you would get a lot fewer morons and not so many lude comments.
Of course, MaxPC staff probably would have visited my house a couple times by now, too.
Submitted by dullthud on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 9:28am
The poster here was a childish person who got what he deserved. He was trolling. If you said something like that to some stranger's kid or wife on the street he'd probably react violently, but on the net, trolls believe it is acceptable because nobody knows who they are. But what if we could find out? Trolls exist because they can remain anonymous. If they knew you could
track them down, they would be more polite, because
they could expect to get beaten/sued/fired/killed if they used their troll behaviour.A good rule of thumb is: If you wouldn't say it to a stranger's face, don't say it in a post.
Rights
Submitted by Ntldr on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 8:43am
Considering this was in the US and both parties were from and part of it. There is a right to free speech, and the right to publish what ever you want really. Who cares what word he used, if they were so concerned about that then they are dumb. People post crap like that everywhere and regarless of where it is someone will see it. Weather it is on their site or another it will be there. They asked a question that honestly if you ask that question you are going to get some pretty interesting answers. So he reposted it after it was deleted he has the right to be heard on what his experience was without being fired or persecuted for it.
You know, one of these days
Submitted by Tekzel on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 11:16am
You know, one of these days I am going to do a web page explaining what the "right to free speech" actually is, and just post a link whenever someone who obviously has NO clue what it means refers to it. Since I haven't done that yet, I am going to help you out a little. The RIGHT to free speech only protects you in public spaces, and prevents the goverment from getting in your face about your political or religious views. The classic scenario is "cry fire" in a crowded theater and see how free your speech is. Call in a bomb threat, and see how free it is.
On a PRIVATE website, even in an area open to public access (which is still a privately owned space) you have no right to free speech. Zero. Zilch. Nada. You have exactly two rights there: the right to say what is within the owners arbitrary guidelines and the right to get the frack out. That is it.
Edit: Also, people like to use the word "right" a whole lot, apparently without giving any consideration to what that word, in this context, actually means. Your rights don't give you the right to trample upon my rights. (Say that three times fast) Your "right to free speech" do not give you the right to threaten me verbally, as an example.
Submitted by Ntldr on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 1:46pm
A web forum that can have anonymous posts would not fall under the category of private space it is open and public. A news forum is double on that. New and access to the news is open and not private if it was then only a handful of people would be able to access the news. Not only that but the question asked they should have known that it was going to get some type of negative responses the guy that posted the question was irresponsible for posting it. Not only that but it was able to be posted anonymously thus making what he did wrong. You can try to rationalize this anyway you want and attack peoples wording to fit your agenda but the plain and simple of this is that it handled wrong. Maybe you need to go to something other than a High School and figure out what our Freedoms really are. You seem to be ignorant of what we can or cannot do, or maybe you are just brainwashed into believing that we don't have something we do.
Submitted by Muerte on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 1:32pm
This really does turn on what the rules of the forum or blog space were. If they were stated that you can post anonymously, it does not matter if they can get your identity, they should act like they don't have it.
Was the guy a dick? sure. But they left themselves open to this kind of behavior. Who in their right mind puts up a blog question like that and doesn't expect some kind of crass answer.
Sounds like the new people are trying to make their own news.
Submitted by dracoress on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 5:01am
Communism!!! It's where we are headed.
Submitted by MajorMajor on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 10:41pm
Nelson says: Haaaa Haa!
Submitted by 2007mustang on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 10:35pm
So let me get this strait first its a news papers web site so a member of the press. I dont know but ya i would say the word he posted is probably right on track though i could have found another way to say it.
What disturbs me is the fact that though the news orginization had a right to remove the post. I am fine with that though they should have had a filter in place for just sort of thing (sensorship comes to mind). Isnt this what the press as a whole balks about when they talk about doing it to them? Had my boss called me in and asked me about it I would probably asked if i was in compliance of the acceptable use policy? The fact the guy quit tells me he is a weak minded person.
I can tell you one thing i would be wanting to let the cat out of the bag that there policy on ananimity is worthless if they will track down some one like this for something that they should have had more control over anyways tells me that if i wanted to report something to the press on condition my id not be revieled I know that this would be the last place i would go to.
But on another note no wonder news papers are going down in flames the less news papers printed the less trees wasted on verbal toilet paper, at least, that is what i call them things with words printed on them.
Submitted by fnordfnord on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 10:19pm
An update from the newspaper's website:
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-editors-desk/the-editors-desk/2009/11/follow-up-the-case-of-the-vulgar-comment-and-the-school/
I agree with some of the responses on their site: that the tattle tale gloated about getting the person fired and the reason he tattled was that it was easy.
I think in the end thet tattler will be fired or sued. He will not emerge from this unscathed.
Submitted by mesiah on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 9:44pm
There is no expectation of privacy when you post something on a public forum. Anonymous posting just means that your name is not included in the post. It doesn't mean your transaction does not get logged. I'll bet every single person here who has ever run a blog or message board wished they could have done this same thing at some point in time to some troll. Nothing annoys me more than deleting a post or locking a thread on a forum only to have the offending individual repost his comment or open a new thread. Usually doing so on a forum gets your IP banned. My guess is he checked the IP so he could ban it, decided to take a peek and see where it was coming from (maybe it was a friend messing with him.) When he saw it was from a school he probably thought he would get a little retribution and tip off their IT guys. Did he intend to get the guy fired? Probably not. Did he go too far? Probably. Did the guy deserve to lose his job over it? Probably not. Am I happy that some anonymous forum troll got dealt with for once? Hell yes!
Submitted by kamik on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 8:55pm
What a waste of everyone's time to track this guy down. Shouldn't be anyone's concern what sort of language he uses online.
Submitted by Scootiep on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 8:42pm
I would think that if the Newspaper actually stated that all comments were anonymous, then the terminated employee would have solid grounds to base a false advertizing claim against the newspaper and sue for damages quite easily.
To start press any key...ohh, where's the "Any" key. - Homer Simpson
Ridiculous
Submitted by SPARTAN-501 on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 7:17pm
It's depressing to see that some people are actually sad enough to go such a great length to get people fired. And the board was supposed to be "anonymous"? This is ridiculous. The whole point in having an ANONYMOUS board is so that people don't get tracked down and screwed over. Sure, maybe the employee did go against regulations, but so did Kurt Greenbaum--by claiming the board was anonymous. He can't legally track people down when they're posting stuff anonymously.
Submitted by Tekzel on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 8:05pm
Bzzzzzt. The anonimity is only from the other posters. The admin will always have access to your IP address.
My view is that the guy got what he deserved. He posted something ridiculous, fine, they deleted it. He went back and did the SAME thing again, posted a comment that got deleted. That contitutes harassment in my book, and I think they did exactly the right thing. I am pretty sure his SCHOOL'S IT has a policy about internet usage on school workstations. The guy is a moron.
Submitted by NoCtrl on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 7:16pm
Now we'll never know.
Submitted by jimbobjoe on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 6:56pm
Maybe we should mass email this site and ask for the resignation of the person that is wasting company time hunting down supposedly anonymous people.
vagina
Submitted by ArrecBarrwin on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 6:48pm
vagina
Submitted by ArrecBarrwin on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 6:48pm
I couldnt resist
Two words: Dick. Move.
Submitted by gendoikari1 on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:57pm
Two words: Dick. Move.
I think Mr. Anonymous was
Submitted by cj100570 on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:51pm
I think Mr. Anonymous was crazy for resigning. If I were him I would hunt down the asshole from the paper for setting "The Man" on me and then beat his ass into unconsciousness.
"Semper Paratus"
Submitted by Narteck on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:27pm
Putting aside the fact the the fool from the school reposted the comment.
When you get down to it, it was Kurt that is in the wrong. I would think its safe to say that on the St. Louis Post-Dispatch web site, when posting a comment as an anonymous poster. They agree to keep your info jus that "anonymous". Not only has he violated the privacy of the poster but he has done a big discredit to the paper it self.
If I were the poster I would sue the paper for those reasons and have Kurt fired as well. Then see what his smile looks like after that.
The fact is if you tell posters that they can be anonymous then you better keep your word. All Kurt needed to do to keep his feeling from being hurt was to ban the IP.
Submitted by tehR0XX0Rz on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:11pm
If it were me, I'd track down Kurt's home address using the license plate off his car and the local license branch. Eventually, he and I would have a very brief discussion over the matter at a time of my choosing.
I bet Kurt wouldn't like being tracked down like that. No, sir.
And being freshly
Submitted by jcollins on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:22pm
And being freshly unemployed, I'm sure the guy has plenty of time to do so too...
There was a time when people
Submitted by Brewskie on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:05pm
There was a time when people respected the right to anonymity.
The prime example of this are the Federalist Papers.
Most people are clueless about freedom today, however.
The Ultimate Chiller
¨˜”°º•BREW•º°”˜¨
Submitted by Nailer669 on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:00pm
First of, the person was a moron for resigning on the spot. There's no way anyone could tie him directly to that computer. There have been many court cases where an employee was fired for "supposedly" looking at porn or something on a computer, but the company was forced to "unfire" the person because they couldn't prove it was that person. Some smart-a$$ kid could have posted that when the person was taking a bathroom break.
It seems like everyone involved in that story was a complete idiot and can't think of how to properly setup something or think of how to get out of it. Oh well.... like they say... better him than me! Well.. I assume a him, but I wouldn't complain the other way.
Nailer, At my school,
Submitted by reutnes on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 5:41pm
Nailer,
At my school, everything you type into a computer is logged. The past 6 months of keystrokes are all stored on a server along with a timestamp. If you log into your email, they know it. If you send a comment to a website, they know it. Every search, click, and address is logged and stamped with the time and name of the computer, and the name of the user that is logged in. It doesn't matter if you access through a proxy-- It is trivial for the software to look past it.
As a tech student I had an opportunity to 'job shadow' our net admin, and that is how I know this. I've seen these logs with mine own eyes. Their IT staff probably loves it when situations like this come up, because it is a much easier task to perform than most of the other stuff they have to do every day.
Your comment is so... well let's just say it's easy enough to judge how tech-literate you are. Something you have to realize before you log into any computer is that you are being watched, whether it's a teacher, a network software, or the government. There is no "maybe." There is no "supposedly looking at porn." It's black and white and there is no grey area. Every student and teacher at my school signs a legally binding document agreeing to various restrictions, which likely includes the posting of such vulgar material.
You say the employee was stupid for not setting up a way to get out of it. I say the employee was stupid for doing it in the first place. The logs are black and white and impossible to contradict. Some moron has gotten expelled every year for computer misuse (porn in the library). They lie and cover it up, but the logs are cold and emotionless and take no pity on liars.
Submitted by Tekzel on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 8:10pm
Holy, crap, FINALLY some sanity in these comments. I was surprised at all the people that think that Kurt did the wrong thing, which he absolutely, indisputably, did not. Some sociopaths actually suggested physical violence in retribution. Even as a joke that is sick. The guy was an absolute dipshit and stupidity of that magitude MUST have consequences.
Submitted by Muerte on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 8:34am
Just because he had the technology to do it, does not make it right.
The posts were to be anonymous, as advertised by the paper. Which, unless otherwise stated in the forum rules, means that when you post, you post under the understanding that, that information will not be used against you.
There was no justification for this. It was just as easy to send an email warning the person or banning the IP.
I kind of hope the paper sees the forums and blog responses dry up completely. Hell I wouldn't post there anymore if I knew this was a possibility. Who knows what offhand comment will get you fired.
Submitted by Nailer669 on Fri, 11/20/2009 - 5:51am
My point in all of that is not that it isn't done. I know it is done. I also know that people who've been fired have won court cases because it is very difficult to prove that person actually did it. If the perosn leaves their mail open or their computer unattended for a few minutes. Stupid yes, but it happens.
Plus, logs can be tampered with. If I'm an IT guy, I can log in as anyone and type away. Most of it depends on the policy of the company or facility and the systems in place. If there is a "You are not allowed to post to blogs" section in the code of conduct, then the person is toast. If not, there isn't much the company can do to fire the person without that person having an easiliy winable court case.
I am no HR person, but I've talked to enough HR people to know what can and cannot be done and what court cases have been tried and won in this area. In any case, that employee has the right to say "prove it". and "that wasn't me - someone must have been on my computer when I left it open" or something like that.
Submitted by binkievanes on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 4:54pm
Binkie van Es , netherlands antilles
I have alwayls firmly believed that if you do not dare to put your name under comments , than don't put it, i have no respect at all with anonymus , or name withheld on authors request etcetera, If you are nor prepared to defend what you think, keep it to yourself. This is obviously only possible in our western society where you dont get shot for not agreeing, if you feel you have to make the party more lively, do so with your name, The paper had no right though to track the anonymus writer, they just should not accept anonymus entry's.
Ps my own name is clearly a nickname, but one i carry already my entire life and everyone in my community knows me only with this name, my givenAA name is Cornelius to avoid anonimity
Submitted by Bustout on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 4:50pm
Maybe Kurt thought that the comment was directed at him and not the topic of the article. It does seem to fit.
Submitted by Neufeldt2002 on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 4:48pm
No need to fire anyone, just use proper filters for words and moderate the comments. If the offender continues to post the same profanities, temperarily(sp?) ban the ip address. If it still continues ban the ip permantly.
Problem solved. There are some other things one can do, ie send a letter to said address asking politely to stop. Removing the annon comments etc.
I wanted a signature, but all I got was this ________
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