Network Firm Files Lawsuit against Microsoft, Apple and Google Over Thumbnails

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ghot

I said 3DMark06 OVERALL score.  There has to be a reason that two systems with similar GPU's and wildy different processsors get OVERALL scores that are so similar.  The I7 does a lot of things fantastically....but there is definitly somthing wrong in the CPU/GPU connects if the I7 can't turn out a better 3DMark06 score.

The same is true in all the Futuremark OVERALL scores.

 

 

Take efficiency, and edit out all the intelligence and what you have left is a post-XP Microsoft operating system :)

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ghot

Like I said in my first post...there was a screen shot of the Windows 7 networks options....the shot had4 identicle thubnails of what looked like a computer tower for the various network option....you STILL have to read what the text to know which is which.   Explain to me why this is faster or easier.......PLEASE   lol

I am not an MS hater  I love MS  and have used their OS's since Windows 3.0.....however, that does NOT change the fact that the direction they are heading is not simpler or faster.

In the Max PC post about the new Intel I7 running on Vista....i saw it turned in 3DMark06 benches of approx, 12,000.....My AMD 5000+ B.E. with a GTX280 can and does turn in the same bench.  So where is the problem?

Is the I7 trully a piece of crap or is it Vista?  Since the I7 screamed in office apps and memory benchs, I would have to conclude that Vista is slower than molasses in february.

Sure there are very few articles claiming Vista and Windows 7 are slower than XP.  However in these days of everyone paying everyone off to print whatever they want the people to hear...I'll take the one or two articles that most probably .....didn't take the payoff and held on to their honor.  Anyone can find 1000 examples of the "masses" telling the "masses" what they want to here....this does not make it true.  Numbers dont lie.... there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that my AMD 5000+ @ 3.2Ghz should be able to turn in equivalent 3DMark06 scores as a brand shiny new Intel I7 on a brand new Intel board, with more memory.  Someone is fudging the facts somewhere.  You believe what you want, I'll believe what I SEE  :)

 

To: Caboose:  read EVERYthing I wrote not just the parts you want to see...when I open my control panel on XP with it set to details.....I CAN SEE ALL THE OPTIONS INN ONE WINDOW!!!!!!!   You just can't do that with thunbnails......unless of course your one of those people that thinks they actually NEED a 30 inch or bigger monitor.  Which is exactly what you WILL need with everything turned into thumbnails.  Personally I prefer to be able to sit within 2 feet of my computer screen and actually SEE all of it.

I really hate that I can't post screenshots in these comments sections....it would be immediately obvious..even to YOU, that thumbnails are stupid.  Go ahead open Windows Explorer with your thumbnail view.....you can't "at a glance" see everything installed in Program Files with it set to thumbnails....thumbnails that are all yellow folder that you have to read the text underneath anyways.

I, However can see everything from My Computer to the recycle bin in ONE window without scrolling....the same with my Program files....and I can do this on a $200 19"  1280x1024 screen.  Go ahead spend $1000 dollars to see all your thumbnails  which do nothing more that slow down your OS and require even more expensive graphics hardware to display.  MS and the hardware manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

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Keith E. Whisman

Well I would expect 2 systems running the same video card to come up with nearly the same 3dmark numbers as this is a 3D Graphics benchmarking tool. And I wasn't trying to attack you so if you feel this way I appologize. I think the numbers would be really different if you lower the resolution to like 640x480 and also try using Everest. Everest will benchmark every aspect of your pc and running 3dmark06 at low res will put more work on your CPU and memory than your GPU. I think you'll see a larg difference running low res 3dmark and Everest. You will also notice a difference using these programs on Win7Beta and Windows Vista SP1 with the same hardware.

 

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ghot

Of course thumbnails for image editing apps are necessary, and I never meant to imply they were not.  In fact I thought I clearly said the are UN necessary is OS's as in operating systems.  When I want to find something in control panel for example.....I can find it MUCH faster in text form and can see many more of the choices....simply because text takes up less space.

A lot of OS companys are switching to thumbnails, NOT for speed or ease of operation, but to make what to most is a boring list of things...pretty to look at.  Thats all well and good for a neophyte on an OS for the first time.  But lets be honest here....in order to be able to afford a computer and an OS a person is most probably NOT a computer newbie.  In the busines world as well as on the home comp of the mother with 4 children......TIME IS MONEY! Even at a very moderate resolution of 1280x 1024 I can see 95% of the control panel entries in one window. You just can do that with thumbnails.  THIS is what I was referring to, not image applications.

Text also takes a lot less hardware to display....this trend towards a thumbnail OS is not only slower, but requires more expensive hardware.  For me personally I can afford it....however many can't.  MS is simply doing this to sell yet another flawed OS, by hiding its flaws with BLING.  

I don't CARE if the companies that are suing for the use of thumbnails are "in the right"  but I do hope they win.  The reason is we are being led down a primrose path by MS, APPLE and other into thinking we need all this bloat added to our operating system.   Its been proven over and over that an OS has less problems, runs faster and is easier to use....without all this BLOAT added.

 

In a Maximum PC post a fgew days ago it was reported that Windows 7 is faster than both Vista and XP Pro.

In a quick google on the very same day I found this:

 

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/11/10/46TC-windows-7_3.html 

"In a nutshell, Windows 7 M3 is a virtual twin of Vista when it comes to
performance. The few minor variations I observed during comparative
testing are easily explained away by slight tweaks to the kernel (such
as the aforementioned MDAC changes); they certainly don't indicate a
significant performance overhaul. More important, these variations pale
in comparison with the 40 percent gap in performance I've observed
between Vista and Windows XP SP3. From a raw throughput perspective,
Windows 7 promises to perform as poorly as its predecessor. "Pre-beta"
notwithstanding, the reality is that any hope for closing of the
performance gap with Windows XP is unlikely to materialize in Windows
7."

...and this is BEFORE they have added all the bells and whistles.

 

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Caboose

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you hate Windows and Microsoft so much, switch to Linux and use the command line.

 With the price of computer hardware right now, it is not difficult to get parts to make a decent computer that can run an OS with all the bells and whistles enabled and running.

 You say "Time is money" and yet you prefer to have to read each file, and application name, rather than glancing at a picture. Which takes longer? Reading a sentence about a picture, or looking at the picture itself? Do you watch TV or movies with descriptive text/voice instead of watching the moving pictures?

 Look at humanity's past. Before the written word, everything was done in pictures or drawings. You can tell a lot from a picture or painting.

You may find it easier to read everything everywhere instead of looking at a quick picture to tell what something means, but I bet you, if you were to take a poll of computer users (casual users, regular users, advanced users and IT professionals) you'd find more people would lean towards an icon or thumbnail over a text description when searching for something quickly (Maybe MPC should set up a poll like this).

 I find that having an active thumbnail in Vista for running apps that are minimized is a nice feature. And when I'm running multiple apps and need to check up on something, I'd rather view a thumbnail of what's going on, than maximizing and minimizing the window. Which takes longer, and uses more GPU/CPU power? Displaying a thumbnail when needed or constantly maximizing and minimizing a window? I'll go with the latter on this one

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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Keith E. Whisman

I too have read that article and it appears to be the only one that reports windows 7 as crap slow. Every other article out there shows Win7 to be awesome. Could it be that the inforworld article writer is the only person out there writing an honest article and all the others are just supporting MS or is it more likely as I believe that this one article is biased against MS. The article writer just plain hates MS. There are alot of people out there that hate MS. These people have macs at home, run linux exclusively or refuse to even give Windows Vista a try. 

Would you believe one guy that says the sky is falling or would you rather believe numerous astronomers reporting there is a meteor shower?

If it were not for the all out hatred alot of people have for anything MS I would believe the article but because there is and so many other people out there say that Win7 is awesome then I just can't believe this article.

Anyone reading that article should also read all the other Win7 articles and then make a decision on their own. And I'm not a MS fan boy.  

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GreenTurtle

Cygnus....subsidiary of .....Rambus? LOL!!!!!

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Keith E. Whisman

Goddamned troll. Who in the hell gave this patent to these people? I hope it gets thrown out. This is a standard. I'm sick of this bull shit. And just what product did they produce? I'm sick of people just getting an idea and not making anything from it but going out and getting a patent on the idea. Also Thumbnails have been around for a very long time. See the goddamned patent system is fucking broken. Some assholes need to be shot. This article was designed to piss people off..People like me. Well I'll give my moral support to these companies to defeat these aholes. MS patented the Page Up and Page Down keys. They still haven't embarressed themselves by filing patent suits yet. And I hope that they do not. Cygnus is probably a front for the Taliban or some other Muslim terrorist organization.

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Shalbatana

 RE: ghot's comment: (I replied to his comment, but it posted me up top instead)

 

I would have to strongly disagree with your argument. Thumbnails are essential time savers when searching for a photo in a folder of photos. Especially when I'm looking for a specific variation of a client's logo, I can browse the thumbnail image 100x faster than I can reading the text under each version.

Thumbnails for 90% of the files on your computer, yes, probably useless. But I would consider them absolutely essential when dealing with images and/or video. especially when Windows picture and fax viewer won't display proprietary formats like .psd

 

AFA the lawsuit. This is really a squatters rights issue for me. Perhaps it's been in litigation for 15 years and they've only just now obtained the rights, but really, why sue all these companies now, when they've been using thumbs for over two decades?  At least rambus cried foul the instant it happened, and it took all this time to verify their claim. I'm leaning to throwing the case out.

_______________________________

"There's no time like the future."

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SteveCamper

Let me guess.  The guy that runs Cygnus Systems has green hair and wears a purple suit!!!!

Don't worry, I'll sue them first for copyright infringement for accessing my photos without asking for my consent first.  Of course if I do give them consent, then they would have to pay me a royalty for the copyright usage.  Like for every time I or someone else views my thumbnail image...

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SteveCamper

Maybe it is a David and Goliath situation as it does date back to 1998...

 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081226-microsoft-apple-google-sued-over-icon-software-patent.html 

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Cache

Somene's been doing their homework.  It looks like the Rambus business plan is going to be a rock-solid investment.

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QUINTIX256

Can anyone say Prior Art?

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ghot

....not for the reason you may think.....I have numerous times, posted in these articles that the use of thumbnails is OS's is just plain STOOOOOOPID!  There is NOTHING clearer than plain english text...there is no room for mis-interpretation as there is with thumbnails.  For exapmple:  Just look at the Windows 7 screenshots of the new-improved network interface.  They have four identical pictures of what I assume are computers.....and then have to explain (in text) underneath each thumbnail what it represents.  Where is the logic in this?  If you have to explain in text anyways.....why burden the GPU with displaying a redundant thumbnail.

So I hope they win their suit and EVERY OS maker is FORCED to return to icons and text.  When something ain't broke....don't fix it!

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Taz0

I think you're confusing the term "icon" and "thumbnail". An icon is a general graphical representation of something. That's what you're talking about in your comment. A thumbnail, on the other hand, is a picture reduced in size, usually to the size of an icon. You're complaining that icons are all the same and do not add any information regarding the item they're representing. A thumbnail is a complete opposite, as each thumbnail is different.

The patent is about thumbnails and not icons.

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Keith E. Whisman

It doesn't matter because they are just trying to get rich quick by finding ideas any ideas literally any idea for anything and rushing to patent them. Then suing everyone that violates these patents. This is going too far and they are taking advantage of the weak patent system that is obviously broken now. So really who cares about what an icon or a thumbnail is the story is about ruining the american patent system.

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Taz0

I was not talking about the lawsuit (which is indeed silly). I was replying to the person who was raving about thumbnails being completely useless (which in my is complete BS) while he was really talking about icons being completely useless (which even though I think is also BS, there are places where they're overused).

BTW, I believe in creating a specialized patent office solely for software, with experts in the field that are able to make intelligent and well informed patent-related rulings.

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QUINTIX256

Instead of a having a Red Octogon, we should just go for the word STOP.

O.K., I kid. I see what you are getting at -especially with multiple ambigious icons, but an image is much more readily recognizable than a word.

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comptech08

Thats like saying  i pattened bread and I am going to sue the Pillsburry dough boy

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Talcum X

 I don't think they should be awarded a patent on something that has been in use for years....I would think it would be considered public domain.  They just want money and royalties for something that others invented, but never thought of patenting as it's just a gimmick.

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