Microsoft Agrees to Ship Windows 7 with Browser Ballot

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mesiah

You know, MS could probably do an end run around this whole deal by not selling an "Operating System" but instead offering a "Software Suite." take all the stuff thats already in there, add in the new security software, throw in MS works, and just market it and sell it as an entire stand alone software package. Can't hit them with a suit for bundling free software with their OS if they are not selling just an OS, but an entire software group. Its entirely semantics, but it would sure be a slap in the face to the EU.

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Vano

I don't like the icons they have build into OS, also, I don't like explorer.exe because it's so much integrated into OS and I can't uinstall it....

please send me a copy of windows without these features. Also, I'd like the software developers include into their software a third party software and PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR IT!

This is f@cking ridiculous!  How could anyone sue software developers because they included into their software a software they created? No seriously, what the f@ck is wrong with these people?

This is surely ideocracy!

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Synux

All this talk of monopoloy fails to address the question, "What is the goal?"  Let's say MS bundles a browser and gets 100% of the market share.  So what?  How much did you pay for the browsers you are using?  Probably nothing.  All this code, R&D, promotion and legal hoopla over something that costs $0.00.  I fail to see the business model here and thus the reason for concern.  When IE first came out and was given away for free it eventually killed Netscape (which stopped being cool at 3.02Gold) so that started the hand wringing but now all the browsers are free and coexist peacefully.  The OS has to have a browser if only to get to a URL so you can download a different browser.  After that it doesn't matter and for those who do not understand the nuances of the various browsers, they are probably better off with IE (although not safer) in that they will be happier users.  The first time a novice user has to figure out out to get Flash installed in Firefox will be enough to scare them back to the click-accept-yes-finish of IE add-ons and in the end nobody paid anything for any of this.  How do these things keep getting funding?

I wish I understood why we should care about this.

NOTE:  Yes Firefox is much better now about most add-ons but strangely not about the one that seems to be most commonly needed, Flash.

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quicks0rt

Antitrust laws are created to encourage competition and prevent unfair
business practices by a monoply, which may or may not translate to $$
immedately. Look at how stagnant IE6 has been if it not for Firefox
encroaching on its territory. If IE presumably takes over 100% of the
browser market, Microsoft can put itself in a position to influence
other markets that revolves around web services and applications. ASP
.NET would suddenly become a defacto web standard and Microsoft could
then possibly take over the server market by offering "compatible"
solutions that won't break your websites when using IE. Companies like
Mozilla Corporation and Opera operate by profits made not by the browers
that they produce, but services that they provide for their browsers to businesses. As for the browser download, a simple FTP will suffice, or let OEM handle the bundled software.

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Synux

I agree with the principle notions you present, and truly these points are the cogent arguments that brought us to where we are in the matter.  I only propose that with no money changing hands for any of these browsers that there are no barriers to entry for the consumer and as such I do not see the motivation to force MS to include or exclude anything with respect to their browser.  If MS was giving away its product to undercut a value priced competitor such as it did with Netscape then we have the equivalent of "Dumping" where a foreign business, with the support of the parent nation, will sell (or in this scenario, give) its product away to steal market share with the intent of driving the competitor out of business and gaining a monopoly.  That was the anti-trust suit rationale and it made sense then.  Now there are effectively no revenue models for the browsers so the dumping model doesn't work.  I would love to see the OOBE include radio buttons to choose your browser during setup but ultimately this is MS property which we have licensed and it seems to me it should be their choice.  My car came with a stock radio and for most people that is all the average car owner will ever know.  Some choose to make changes and that is fine too but it seems wrong to insist that the maker of a product include a foreign (not necessarily to be read as competing) device in the final release of that which they have commited so much time and effort to producing (insert MS performance and security joke here).  You struck on a very good point with respect to OEM.  I would respect the decision to allow the OEM to add/change browsers.  At present that doesn't happen (it used to) and that would be fun - at least until we got the crapware trial products littering our new desktops.  I remember back to a Packard Bell from Sears for that offensive image.

BTW, I would love to watch a civilian navigate a CLI to FTP Mozilla 3.5.1 - Don't allow FileZilla or anything GUI - just Joe Consumer with Norton, IE, a Hotmail account and iTunes trying to pull down an FTP old-school style.  That whole image  starts out funny then abruptly goes sad.

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VaMage

I'm sorry I'm so old, and curmudgeonly, but I find it highly ironic that Microsoft has requested to NOT include a browser in the OS.

For the younger crowd here a brief history lesson. During the 90's one day Microsoft woke up and realized that it had 100% missed the Internet boat, a little company called Netscape had 90% of the browser market and MS was out int the cold. Of course MS instantly stole a bunch of code, slapped together a piece of garbage and called it Internet Explorer, and of course no one bought it.

So for the first time in years, well at least since they had ripped off GUI's from Apple, who had stolen them from the labs at Palo Alto, Microsoft found itself with no expertise in an area, i.e. browsers, TCP/IP, SMTP, etc, and could see they were going to be frozen out of "the next big thing".

However, Microsoft had a simple solution, BUNDLE I.E. into the O.S. for "free", update the O.S. so suddenly Netscape wouldn't run on it without a bunch of "bug" fixes, and wallah overnight market penetration. In under one year MS went from ZERO market share to owning the field.

But wait, last piece of history, M.S. got sued, of course, and argued that a browser was now an essential part of ANY O.S., and that they therefor not only had the right to include it, but HAD TO DO SO!

So, today, MS needs to screw Firefox, Goggle, and anyone else that comes close to their monopoly and is arguing exactly the opposite position from the one that won for them just a few years ago. This goes beyond hubris and of course is sound strategy to maintain, illegally but that has never worried MS in the least, it's current market share.

 

VaMage

American by Birth, But Southern by the Grace of God.

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Jeffredo

Really.

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maniacm0nk3y

I also believe they should be able to package in their own software into the OS. What about Apple? Are they going to say that Apple cant' bundle Safari in? I think they should just have something telling consumers about other options in the OS somehow.

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maniacm0nk3y

I also believe they should be able to package in their own software into the OS. What about Apple? Are they going to say that Apple cant' bundle Safari in? I think they should just have something telling consumers about other options in the OS somehow.

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bskoreyko

I totally don't agree with many of Microsoft's methods but this situation is totally ludicrous... Microsoft writes the Operating System and there for they should be able to put what ever they want with it... THEY DO NOT, DO NOT restrict users from downloading what they want once the OS is installed so there is no argument... I don't care what anyone else says this is an unfair ruling and I think there are way too many un-educated users out there... Let's focus on other issues that are worth spending money on...

Don't get me wrong here, I am a loyal Firefox user but if you will for a moment I don't think people have the right to take away someone else's rights and that is really what the EU did to MS... sad... thats my two cents!

Brendan Skoreyko
http://www.yourtechies.ca
http://www.yourhostingpro.ca
http://www.sdmsite.com

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quicks0rt

Microsoft is a previously convicted monoply. The laws do not operate the same on an entity that holds monoply on a given market even in the US. You say Microsoft writes the operating system, and I agree, it should stay focused on the OS part and stop forcing its way into other market segments leveraging its monoply status.

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Vano

What monopoly are you talking about?

OS monopoly? - how about hunders distros of Linux, Apple OS?

Browser monopoly? - how about tens different browsers available?

They write the OS, they have rights include anything they want into that OS, in fact they have rights prevent anyone write anything for that OS. 

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Caboose

 This is becoming absolutely retarded! Microsoft can't bundle their own software with their own OS. They can't bundle their own media player with their own OS. What next?

I really think that if this is happening to Microsoft, then the EU needs to bring down the hammer on Apple as well!

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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MeTo

By the word of the law microsoft does not bundle internet explorer they intergrated it. Software that is bundled you can go into control and uninstall. Thus giving them the monopoly. I think the US should take a stronger stance we could still have Netscape.

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Hutif

and even if Internet Explorer isn't included with the computer, what happens when the user does a system update?  Is it just going to download the latest version of IE anyway?  I have tried uninstalling IE from my computer and Windows just won't tolerate it.  This is not simply bundled software.

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Tekzel

I just have to say I agree, this is ridiculous.  I also agree regarding Apple getting a complete pass for an even BIGGER transgression.

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dracx619

amen. its bs that apple can bundle absolutely everyhting, as well as restrict the os from being legally installed on anything but apple and it can get away with it....what a load

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Jeffredo

I'm no Apple fan, but its a completely different situation with them.  They market their own closed system - hardware and software.  They don't license their software to be used by other vendors.  An Apple computer is made in its totality by Apple and they should/can put whatever in house software they want on it to the exlusion of other company's software.  If Microsoft made their own PCs and didn't license their OS to anyone else it would make sense they could do the same.

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quicks0rt

"If Microsoft made their own PCs and didn't license their OS to anyone else it would make sense they could do the same."

Not quite right. The only reason Microsoft is getting shitted on is because it holds monoply status in the OS market. Apple does not, and therefore is not subject to antitrust law. If Apple somehow took over the market and became a monoply in the PC market, guess what? Apple will likely be forced to decouple the OS from the hardware platform.

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dracx619

doublepost...wtf, why does this happen?

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comptech08

lol, I have noticed it is happening a lot more since the new red white and black theme was introduced.

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Digital-Storm

It happens because the post button doesnt react instantly. It sits there for a few seconds waiting for you to hit it again. Talk about "Improved performance and load time."

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willsmith

It's on the list of things that will be fixed in the next release of our site. There's a bug somewhere to be squashed.

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dracx619

damn bugs...

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