Microsoft Abandons Planned Xbox One DRM, Used Games Policies; Won't Budge on Price

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jbitzer

Anyone else think it's an amazing coincidence that riopato starts mega posting right after warrior gets banned?

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Carlidan

Had the same feeling too.

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limitbreaker

Lol warrior got banned? That's hilarious!

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maxeeemum

LOL! This is just funny as hell to see the M$ sheep/employee/developer/stock holder cry that Microsoft caved. They had too! They didn't want another Windows 8!

Now watch what happens when Windows 8.1 comes out. When this so called improvement after "we listen to our customers" comes out it will be like pouring gasoline on a fire. I can't wait! Talk about mismanagement!

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Hey.That_Dude

Translated as: "Let the flame wars commence!"

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Ninjawithagun

Oh wait, I have the solution! I'll just buy both consoles like I did last time...the best of both worlds is to own them...MUUWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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John Pombrio

I tried that. My sons used the PS3 for a week or so and then it just sat there for YEARS. Meantime, the XBox 360 was getting worn out. I gave the PS3 away and bought the 1st slim version of the 360. The Kinect was pretty much a bust tho, hopefully the new Kinect works better.

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USraging

Good idea! Maybe ill take your lead on this one.

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Ninjawithagun

Pulkit, nice article but you may want to use a more current photo...lol. Why didn't you use a picture of the new XBOX One instead of using an old XBOX360 pic? Just asking!

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riopato

They said that in order to play games that don't need an internet connection, people can play Xbox 360. So basically the next gen xbox is now an xbox 360 (with prettier graphics).
I don't know who is more stupid, the people who complained or Microsoft for backing down.
Everything that got me interested in what the xbox one was going to do, DEAD, in one decision. How the fuck is everything going to work cohesively now?
30 fucking years of the same bullshit of jacked up prices on games and hardly any innovation or progress. We live in a time where all of our devices we use is constantly on while connected to the internet, constantly keeping track of our daily lives and for one consumer device that would make sense to do exactly just that, people complained. The only thing that Microsoft does best when it come to security and online communications, We as a whole said no.
Consoles will be the last entertainment media that actually uses discs and this time it wasn't the industry's fault but is what the consumers wanted. Idiots, all of you!!!!!
I hope Sony will continue to brick your consoles every time there's a firmware update.

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boidsonly

@ Cregan89

Better to start over and add the stripped out features back in. The $500 price did not bother me in the least; M$'s draconian bovine excrement did.

Here is a good read for you:

http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry-that-needs-xbox-one-drm-is-a-failed-industry-256643.phtml

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riopato

As far as I'm concern, $500 is on par to PS4 since it doesn't come with Sony Eye camera or Move.
BTW, the industry is indeed failing. Every big name game that came out recently hasn't met their projected goals financially. The industry can give a shit about the secondary market when companies are spending hundreds of millions to produce a game that can be pirated as well as passed along to friends. The publishers don't give a shit if you bought your games used or not. They care about the initial sales.
M$'s draconian bovine excrement could've changed they way everyone bought and sold games. I personally was looking forward to on demand subscriptions to games the way I enjoy my Netflix streaming. Now I'm stuck paying for crap services like Gamefly and game Publishers continuing making crappy sequels to franchises I can't give two shits about.

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Cregan89

You can't just "start over and add the stripped out features back in". If you want to enable people to play the game without the disc, and share that game with your friends while you're not playing, it has to check in over the internet. Otherwise you could just pass your game disc around to your 100 friends and all play from the same install disc.

And from the article you posted, "The PC proved it was ready for digital distribution, but it took years to do so. You can't just get up and start running when you're not even crawling properly, and in the years since Steam and GOG rose to become justifiable alternatives to physical media, home consoles languished with slow interfaces, clunky storefronts, and expensive games without any of the benefits we've come to expect from PC games. No mods. No quick option for patching content. No user fixes. None of that. Consoles need to work to earn their digital future. They can't just wake up one day and have it presented to them on a velvet pillow."

The next-gen consoles are probably two of the single largest investments in the video game industry in history. Literally hundreds millions of dollars worth of R&D. Microsoft built a 300,000 server datacenter to support the new Xbox Live. And they only get one shot every 10 years to truly innovate. Why the hell can't they "wake up one day and have it presented to them on a velvet pillow"?

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jbitzer

Because the customers don't want it their way. Look at the prices for full games on XBL and PSN. Then go look them up at amazon. The publishers putting in digital distribution are usually in order to artificially extend higher prices on the games. Origin and Uplay are garbage compared to steam because they still try to squeeze high prices out of games that should command much lower sales rates. You never want to let the publisher determine pricing, you want the market to determine it. What this will lead to is publishers underproducing physical copies of games so they can force people to the artificial price controlled digital market.

This doesn't happen as much on PC games because PC gamers usually are a much more vocal and boycott ready group than timmy screaming for COD on Xmas.

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riopato

You are by far the most ignorant replier here. Higher prices of games on consoles are due to the fact that the DRM are the discs. Compare every disc based game to the digital version and chances are you will notice more "sales" on the digital copy.
This doesn't happen much on PC because the DRM is never tied to the disc but always tied to the license.

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Ninjawithagun

Before you continue to act like a 3-year and insulting others posting in this forum, consider your own mistake. You just made two contradictory statements within the same paragraph:

"Higher prices of games on consoles are due to the fact that the DRM are the discs."

But then...

"This doesn't happen much on PC because the DRM is never tied to the disc but always tied to the license."

Huh? So which is it? Is DRM tied to the disc or to the license.

Next time, don't be so hostile. Everyone just wants to share their opinion - no need to lambast them! I hope you get the point...be respectful and stop raging so much.

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jbitzer

No, riopato only knows rude and condescending. He even missed the point where the digital copie are selling for more than a disk is. When Xbox originals came out on live they were charging $20 for old crap games you could get I a $5 bargain bin. But anyone that doesn't lick the companies behind is just an idiot to him. Enjoy overpaying for your gaming dude.

Also, doesn't happen on pc? Do you mean sales?? Are you mental???

I'd like you to show me a digital copy that's less than a physical one Let me explain how it works: a store has limited shelf space for all those physical copies. They have new crap coming in that demands shelf space. A digital copy takes up no room in anyone's inventory. That it why there are clearance sales on physical items. Who's ignorant now?

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Andacious

just read this...and lol

http://www.dorkly.com/article/52521/don-mattricks-first-draft-of-the-xbox-one-update-announcement

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DannyD

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Engelsstaub

That PS was the best part. Still LOLing...

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Cregan89

You're all a bunch of absolute idiots. Here's a better article describing what MaxPC decided to leave out:

http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905

And an article from an Xbox Engineer describing why they went with the initial always-connected route before they caved:

http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions

Basically, Microsoft caved in to the morons of the internet (like they ever had a choice) and as a result everybody misses out on technological progress of the gaming market. All of the features which the previous implementation made possible are now all axed. You now HAVE to insert the game disc in order to play. Game prices will stay exactly the same. Used games will retain their joke of a return value. If you want to lend a game to your friend he has to come over to your house to get the disc. If your friend forgets to give you your game disc back, well you're shit out of luck until you get that disc back. If you want to play one of your games at your friends house you better bring a backpack, because you have to bring all of your games with you. Developers can now no longer count on Cloud Compute for single player games, which basically means no developer will use it at all. No Steam style game fire sales. No family share. Scratched disc... You're fucked. No digital game sharing at all.

Microsoft said on multiple occasions that used game sales would be enabled through partnering retailers. That Microsoft would not collect any fee on used game sales. And that their intention from the beginning was to make console gaming work more like Steam. One reason they said SPECIFICALLY was because gamers always complained about the horrible resale value of used games. And in the hopes that they could bring new game costs down, or at the very least old game costs. They explain that Steam didn't always have the costs that they did when they first started but as the services popularity expanded, their model drove costs down. Oh, and my favourite line from this article: "a set of controversial restrictions proposed by Microsoft in a bid to curb piracy and the sale of used games"... Why the fuck would Microsoft be worried about curbing piracy in the only digital media market with less than a 0.01% piracy rate? And stop the sale of used games? They explicitly stated that their intention was to increase the value of used games. And they are also the only next-gen console to provide a plan for the resale of used digital downloaded games!!! How the fuck is that for "curbing the sale of used games" you fucking idiot. Now NO PLATFORM will offer any form of digital downloaded used game resale...

And as if people are complaining about requiring an internet connection every 24 hours. I have internet on the bus, train, and McDonalds for fuck sakes. I've played online on my Xbox 360 over my smartphone tether at my cottage 2 hours in the fucking bush. And I don't know about the US Military, but my brother in the Canadian Military had internet connection in Afghanistan, I call bullshit on that one.

So I hope you're all happy...
Fucking idiots.

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John Pombrio

Game retailers would have been extremely upset if games were downloaded digitally. 50% of Gamestop's revenue comes from used games. Amazon would never do "sales" like Steam does. How many PC games are still left at Gamestop? That was a BIG issue that MS never addressed properly. So BOTH gamers and the retailers were pissed.
It was just too large a jump to make all at once, like removing the optical drive entirely (which was considered). Digital will come to consoles but just more slowly.

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Aggie1295

Exactly what technological progress was Microsoft bringing by requiring a internet check in every 24 hours or allowing publishers to block used games? Your biggest complaint is that if you purchase a game, you have to have to disk to play the game. So what? How is that any different from any game system in the last 30 years? I don't feel a big need to digitally download a game, nor do I find it a big problem to need a disk to play a game. I have yet to see the value or benefit to Microsoft's former DRM requirements. It does bother me if I am not allowed some control over an item, such as a video game, that I've purchased. I purchased a product, not a license. As far as Microsoft caving to the internet, they didn't. They caved to the marketplace, with is how a free market system is supposed to work. I guarantee you that the complaining on the internet had little to do with their change, but research showing a substantial loss of sales did have an effect.

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riopato

The 30 year concept of disc based DRM:
Defeats the ability to fast switch from running console game to live tv.
Doesn't allow users to trade or resell games digitally (yes you could have done this with the original X1 DRM). Also, downloaded games are no different to disc based games. e.g. I now have to keep The Walking Dead game disc in the system because I only bought episode 1 & 2 digitally!
Disc based games devalue the resell if traded to a dealer since the disc itself is the DRM, as oppose to a digital license. X1's DRM system would've allowed the resell of games at a much higher value since the license would need to be transferred to the store. Imagine trading in a $60 game for $55 instead of $10, you can say goodbye to that.
Continuation of gray market copies of official discs will eventually kill this already hurting industry. X1 DRM would've made this obsolete. Frankly the people who complained the most about X1 DRM, I would think was most likely the pirates running the gray market as well as those who buy from them.
The biggest feature that would've changed the way every Xbox owner uses their console is now dead. No game library sharing, no digital game trading or reselling and definitely no progress.

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jbitzer

If you think you'd be trading in a used digital game for $55 you're a flipping retard. The trading digitally wasn't to benefit you moron it's to control who you can trade to and Maxie profit. Do you think ms was doing shit just because you're a good customer and they want to reward you ??

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Biceps

Awww, Cregan got butthurt. I guess if you want a real gaming experience you'll have to build a PC. :) #TheWayItShouldBe

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riopato

PC games goes hand in hand with consoles. The only advantage PC has over consoles is the prettier graphics. Name one recent game that doesn't look like it was made for consoles and I'll show you another animal that heading to extinction.

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Ninjawithagun

BF3, Bioshock Infinite, Call of Duty Black Ops 2, Metro Last Light, Far Cry 3, Crysis 3...you get the point, right? There are tons of PC exclusively designed games on the market with more coming out very soon. PCs are far superior to any game console. And please let's not get into how keyboard and mouse are far superior to any game controller. The downside is that yes, PCs are much more expensive to buy or build versus a console. The upside to PCs is that you can upgrade them - unlike a gaming console of which you are 'stuck' with the same hardware architecture for several years. And the new camera tech that was all the rave a year ago has died out. Both Microsoft's Kinect and Sony's Move have plummeted in overall device and game sales. Thus is the proof of a temporary trend. It was a novelty, but folks really prefer to use their controllers in the end. Maybe the Oculus Rift will change all of that again by allowing for a more immersive gaming experience regardless of what you game on...computer or game console. That will be nice to see happen. And I was hoping the XBOX One and PS4 would change that with the recent invention of external graphics technology which was seen at previous E3 shows. Unfortunately, that did not happen. The predestined fate of the PC is greatly exaggerated. PC game sales still make up for hundreds of millions of dollars of profit per year. No way are game companies going to give that up.

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Renegade Knight

Speaking of idiots. Anyone who actually believes that article is a complete moron. Any company right now can create a hub and swap used games. Any company can put a serial number on the game to allow that. They can do this with,or without Microsoft, Sony, or anyone else. They could do this with everone on board as well.

The ablity to give my buddy my disk in no way impeads the selling of digital downloads on a hub. It also in no way impeads a digital serial numberized disc that can't be traded. Clearly the technology is there or Microsoft wouldn't have proposed it.

The point that new games COULD sell for less if they made money on used games assumes that studios were willing to make less profit on new games due to used ones. I'm not willing to make that bet.

If you really want to run this experiment. Steam could create a hub. That would be awesome. Then we would have answers instead of the speculuative bullshit you just bought into.

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riopato

Why would Steam create a hub when they already sell games at huge discounts. Of course no one ever buys digital games from XBOX live now, since no one sees the constant sales that they have weekly.
Speculative bullshit is also the reason why Microsoft reversed their decision all because everyone is too fucking cheap to pay for the games at retail.
Excuse me but I always thought console makers made their money in the content and not in hardware. I guess you consider that speculative bullshit also.

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Cregan89

Well the main issue is that downloading a 25GB game on a 60GB home internet bandwidth cap doesn't work so well. So Microsoft wanted a hybrid approach where the game could be used as license and install disc for the digital "download". In order for this to work without people passing their game disc to 100 of their friends and all installing the same copy of the game, it has to check in over the internet...

And why would it be "awesome" if Steam did it, but it's not when Microsoft tries to do it?

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jbitzer

Yeah, your comment would have made sense if MS's first response wasn't "fuck you and your slow / nonavailable internet." Kinda blows your whole argument out.

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tetris42

From the article you linked to:

"
The dangers, as such, lie in a dropoff of support, or at worst, confiscation. That for whatever reason, Microsoft would tell us to screw ourselves and stop supporting Xbox One games, or kick you, specifically, out.

Fair enough.
"

Yeah fuck that. MS has already proven they're willing to just shut down servers for old games, not caring about the consequences. Sure, your Xbox one games would be supported for years, but 10-15 years from now, would they even be playable if they required server authentication? The fact that they made NO statement assuring this would not be the case (Valve HAS made such a statement about Steam) should speak for itself.

Anyone who advocates a system where the games you're enjoying will literally die and never be playable again at some point in the future for artificial reasons is a short-sighted apologist at best. I enjoy playing legacy games and I see any system that enables games to become extinct in the name of profit as immoral. It's intentionally destroying culture and I view it on a similar level as book burning.

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riopato

Are you telling me you still play MechWarrior on your original Xbox? I think your pompous ass needs a reality check.
You do realize the 360 alone is almost a 9 year old console?

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tetris42

I mostly play PC games where there's more protections against this kind of crap from happening.

Also I can't tell if you're trolling or just deluded if you think that not wanting to bend over to let a company screw you on owning games that you've bought considered to be pompous. If so, is watching movies that are 20 years or older also considered pompous? Exact same logic.

And MS already HAS shut down Xbox original servers, that's where this argument is coming from. Do you think Xbox 360 servers will be left on forever or something?

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Ninjawithagun

The XBOX360 is actually 'almost' 8 years old. It was released on December 10th, 2005. Relax before you do public math next time...

...and don't be so pompous! lmao

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Cregan89

They said getting booted from multiplayer will NEVER disable single player gaming.

And Microsoft built a 300,000 server datacenter for the new Xbox Live. It would have cost them millions of dollars. They left the original Xbox Live active until 2010, and there were fewer than a million people using it when they did. These new servers are going to be running for the next 20 years at least. And probably virtualized forever, or else a final update to enable single player gaming without the servers like 40 years from now.

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tetris42

Shutting down the multiplayer was just an example. That's exactly the point. Shutting down servers (like they've already done) only caused multiplayer games to cease function, single player still works fine. The same would be true of Xbox 360. If they did the same move 10+ years from now on Xbox One on the old system, the games would cease functioning. And if MS saw numbers on the Xbox One declining as they pushed out their next gen console, what incentive would they have to keep it running?

"These new servers are going to be running for the next 20 years at least. And probably virtualized forever, or else a final update to enable single player gaming without the servers like 40 years from now."

Really? Is there any statement from Microsoft to back this up?

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jbitzer

And they'll probably run on happy thoughts and unicorn farts.

I love that your argument seems to be "MS would probably do this really nice thing they've given no indication they plan to do"

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riopato

The probably is based on the fact that the 360 is still online working just fine. It's called an educated guess based on Microsoft's past performance with Xbox so far. It negates any negative opinions based on nothing but speculation.

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jbitzer

Your guesses are anything but educated. People have rightly pointed out that ms already cuts services, but you ignore that too. But hey, I appreciate your constant cheer leading for ms with win8 and xbone. You are the kind of people that are making my stock prices keep going up.

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froggz

You are living in a dream world if you actually thought that Microsoft would reduced games prices to the point Steam does. Neither Playstation Market or Xbox marketplace have ever offered reduced prices like Steam. I have 167 games in Steam and the total cost has been roughly $1300. That's $7.78 per game if I divide it equally.
Neither Sony or Microsoft has done it in the past 6 years, so why would they do it now?

Even now, if you go the the Playstation store, a freaking game that has been out for 5 years, that can easily be bought for less that $10 used, cost $20 in their store.

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riopato

I just recently bought a digital game xbl on demand for the equivalent of $10. I must be living in said dream world because this world has a thing called sales!

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jbitzer

What game was it mr wonderful ?

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silverblack

Dumb spam filter is dumb. Trying again as briefly as possible to avoid triggering it.

Read your articles before calling people idiots.

First one assumes Xbox games would cost the same as the PC. Laughable.

Edit: Actually this one reveals the share program was actually timed demos. That's way worse than loaning discs.
http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read

Turns out there are plenty of anonymous employees out there. Wonder if any are real?

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jako800

You guys know you can turn the Kinect off..... right?

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USraging

Now are you basing this information off of the xbox 360 or do you have insider information on the xbox one?

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Cregan89

How about both the Xbox One announcement and the E3 keynote for "inside information"? Both times they said the Kinect privacy settings will be asked at initial setup and configurable from the system settings. They also addressed the concerns more directly on multiple occasions since. If you look for the answers they're everywhere. You think the internet community pays attention though? Not a chance, in one ear and out the other. But it's cool to bash Microsoft though so who cares am-I-right?!

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riopato

The internet community is a bunch of opinionated myopic idiots who would rather believe in evil empires keeping consumers down based on speculation instead of actually listening to facts and explanations.
I suppose no one heard that Sony changed the policy for multiplayer gaming to $60 / year or the fact that the publisher has the option to enable DRM for their games.

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DannyD

Prior to the recent shift (and I would seriously doubt they would change their stance on this) Kinect for Xbox One could be turned off. This information was revealed shortly after the console was announced.

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