John Carmack Says iD Will Take A Console-First Approach To Games

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MasterYoda

it is fucking id Software, not iD or ID. Why do so many people type it incorrectly.

and it is pronounced like did, as in the id, ego, and super ego. It is not eye-dee

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joeyjr

I agree with you guys saying this is BS. If you sell a game for any platform you should not release it when their is poor driver support. I am a PC gamer and will be untill the day I die, so,don't put down PC's, its realy getting old. The PC is and will always be the bettest platform for gaming as far as I am conserned. . Digital downloads for the PC are better than consolds now.did you know!!

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bjoswald

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jgottberg

Gosh... it gets so tired hearing all 12 of the PC gamers scream about how no one makes games for you anymore.... If you made a product, any product... who would you make it for - 5% of the population or 95% of the population? Where are you going to make your profits? Off of the 5%? Only if you mark that product up substantially. If you do that, what percentage of the 5% is going to actually buy it? 1%?

iD is not a not-for-profit organization. They are a company trying to make money... so they can make their games. If you only want them to make PC games, they won't be around long enough to produce one.

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stradric

You could have stated your point without condescending hyperbole.  PC game sales make up about 20% of the total market, which means it's still over a billion dollar market.  Also, Blizzard and Valve make mostly PC games and they are hugely successful.  If you make a good game, it will sell well.  If you make shit, it might sell initially, but you've sacrificed your brand to do so -- as id has now done.

The fact of the matter is that the PC is perfectly profitable for games.  Carmack's ego is hurt and he's putting up the defense mechanisms.  If he can't make cost-effective games on PC, it's his failing and the failing of his company.  If id's games fail to sell on PC because they are made badly, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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jgottberg

You're right... I could have made the point a little more constructively. I get your point. Yes, PC games sell but console games sell a LOT more which makes it a more profitable platform to make games for.

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Alecthar

It's really not as hugely profitable as it seems.  Between the expense of developing for at least 2 platforms, and the part of your revenue eaten by what you have to pay Microsoft/Sony to sell your game for the 360/PS3, not to mention the constant hurdles and irritants of the 2 unique certification processes you have to go through, the console gaming market is actually only really profitable for big companies with titanic "guaranteed hit" blockbusters like Modern Warfare/Battlefield.

Obviously the PC has its issues (compatibility being one, obviously), but for a company without the impressive financial backing iD has, PC game sales are really a better option.  There have been multiple tales of XBLA indie developers finding significantly greater success when selling their games via Steam or other PC digital distribution channels.

And really, Carmack's problem isn't that they focused on the wrong platforms, it's that iD released a game that failed to have anywhere near the amount of graphical options PC users consider adequate, along with some serious graphical issues in general.  Try as iD might, you can't just lay that on the door of GPU makers and say "the drivers were bad, PC sucks."  I can't imagine that issues as serious and widespread as many users reported would have gone completely unnoticed if iD had actually taken the time to look for them.  If iD's goal is to push the envelope and make great games that showcase high-end graphics with great user interfaces and the best gampeplay and storytelling around, PC is clearly the place to do that.  If they prefer to make a quick buck turning out derivative schlock, the console game is perfect.

I don't suppose I begrudge them that, though, gotta pay the bills somehow, right?

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stradric

I won't deny the viability of consoles like many PC purists here would.  I enjoy many console games as a 360 owner, and the appeal is perfectly clear to me.  The entry fee for console gaming is far lower than it is for PC -- pleasing most consumer gamers.  For content creators, consoles are even more appealing due to identical hardware specs, built-in DRM and free netcode.  It's a huge market for good reason.

Steam tries to bring the benefits of a console experience to the PC community -- and succeeds pretty well I'd say.  Given that there are probably over a dozen digital game distribution services on the PC as well as growth in the market, it's simply incorrect to say that the PC platform should be ignored in any respect.  There is definitely money to be made even if it does come with increased difficulty.  Is Carmack not up for the task?  Perhaps.

I think everyone would agree that content creators should be concerned with quality.  If you are going to put your name on a product, it should work as intended.  id's decision to release a PC version of RAGE should have meant that they put all their resources behind it, which didn't happen.  Now I know where their quality standards lie, and I won't hand over my money so easily next time -- if at all.

Carmack running his mouth reveals his childish defense mechanisms and disillusionment with the PC platform that made him a tech icon.  I have no more interest in his exploits on PC or console.  I feel so burned by paying $60 for RAGE.

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bling581

There are plenty of games out there to play so I could care less if they don't make dedicated PC version for a certain title. However, it would be nice if they would put a label on a game that identified it as a console port so people can avoid wasting money. Yeah, some people don't have self control to wait for the reviews to come out, but even then it's hard to tell if it's still going to be a decent game. Despite it's good graphics, Batman: Arkham Asylum screamed console port when I saw the menus and game UI, simplified gameplay and single camera view. Not to mention that it has a default profile already written in for the PC Xbox controller. It's still an awesome game, though a good console port is a rare thing.

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stradric

Carmack has lost all credibility with me.  Not only are his statements now a complete 180 from his statements during RAGE development, but he also said that they had plenty of time to polish RAGE.  Meanwhile, driver issues aside, they released a PC version of the game that didn't have a proper graphics or controls menu.  That's what they consider polish?!  I call BS.  Carmack's ego is getting in the way.

id makes great tech, but they suck at making fun, innovative games.  RAGE is decent as a classic 90s-era shooter, but it's a completely linear and boring experience.  I blame myself for expecting more out of id when I knew that all they do is make tech demos.  Still, I feel cheated.

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Jongalt26

Carmack you're an @55shole.  Thanks for pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Us PC gamers are the only reason you are now able to develop games for consoles.   I can't believe you forgot your roots. Im definitely asking Steam for a refund now. 

Id, you have now lost your relevance.  GGS but im not going to play an FPS with a damn controller.

 

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ozziekun

His statements make absolutely no sense. if you are not going to put the effort into creating a properly coded and stable game for the pc platform, why even make one and sell it to the public. this was a cheap way for them to make the extra buck. They knew customers would buy based on their history and sold out all of their fans. Thank goodness I did not pre order this game; owe my friends big time for that save. ID software is acting as though they are the first company to launch a title across multiple platforms including the PC. Look at the entire Grand Theft Auto series, Batman Arkam Assylum, Crysis 2 (some might argue against that), Borderlands,Need For Speed series, Call of Duty, the Battlefield Series and many more. Did these title developers have issues in bringing a PC version to the gaming table. They knew that the PC version was flawed and purposely marketed to the public, and then coming and blame the graphic drivers. If your crappy game doesnt allow customization of the graphics don't blame Nvidia and AMD for your shortcommings.

The long and short  of this whole thing is that a company that everyone in the PC gaming community trusted, delivered a poor quality product and then blamed the community for not having a console. 

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Irishgamer01

I am quite happy to leave this PC disaster on the shelf. So he can do without my few Euro.

If the want to go xbox/PS3 fine. I will spend my money with someone else.

Though, when the dust settles,  I think there may be a day of reckoning for certain ID staff,
who may be covering thier rear ends hiding behind all this retoric.

 

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ThunderBolt

John, you're a f***ing douche.  Please hang yourself.

 

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Irishgamer01

Little stronge there, but he should stop digging a hole for himself. Everyone is replaceable.

He should also remember its PC gaming got him where he is. Start turning your back on your core support
, they won't be there when the bad times come.

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ToddB

What I have always enjoyed about PC gaming is the discovery of just how far we can go with technology in creating virtual worlds, and the artificial intelligence and physics that is associated with these worlds. I have this same feeling about consoles for the first year or so of their release, while the game makers are still discovering new and interesting ways to program and get the most out of the new hardware.

 After a certain point, development for consoles becomes homonginized, with most programmers borrow coding techniques from previous games. Technological inovation ceases to exist.  What we end up with is a cookie cutter approach to game design. Console games quickley fail to interest me.

It’s a shame that money has gotten in the way of Mr. Carmak’s desire to inovate. Or is it just the fact that other companies such as Crytech, Epic, Blizzard and Bioware have surpassed his abilities?

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PhuxAche

 

 John Carmack - you have always been a moody geeky twat. Now you are much older, you've just turned into a right grumpy ol shite! If you want to dev for consoles, then fair play - just don't nag and bitch about the PC market. It's not on. After all, you still need a PC to program games for consoles. Ironic ain't it!!

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the_brink

All (well, almost all that is except the fallouts and few others) the other gaming companies can release decent games on the pc... Are they just better at software development than Id these days?  You guys (Id) need to stop playing the blame game and get out and see what the real game development world is like.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

Carmack's always been a fucking tool.

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PhuxAche

Looool! I love that word "TooL". Perfect description.

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Humpfester

Funny how John sounds different talking out his ass, Let's blame Nvidia and AMD.

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ScytheNoire

PC Gamers will take a "Won't buy your crappy ports" approach to your games.

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abowlofsoda

Oh man, iD is losing their touch if they can't get a PC version right.  Whats the matter John-  you getting too old to keep up?

I suggest at the very least, TESTING the games before releasing them. 

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Nimrod

right because putting up with the artificial restrictions and bureaucracy of Microsoft and Sony is a lot better than dealing with drivers for the first month of release on the PC right? No. Other developers can release games on the PC that actually work. If id cant, its their fault. Im sure it makes them feel a lot better about them selvs deflecting the blame like this tho.

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XoRn

Right because the professional programer and game designer of the last 30 years has less of a grasp on the market and situation with developing software then all nil experience you've got.

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Danthrax66

Who gives a fuck iD is completely irrelevent and have produced nothing noteworthy for years.

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joeyjr

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kamikaji

Yes, yes, I completely agree, sir.  lol

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acidic

this story is a total 180 from the other 2 articles ive read about this

 

http://www.guru3d.com/news/developing-rage-for-consoles-was-a-huge-mistake/

 

http://www.gamepur.com/news/5668-carmack-developing-rage-consoles-was-big-mistake.html

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axiomatic

Hey Carmack,

Don't forget the people who got you where you are now. Right here and now you are irritating your "loyals." Don't abuse the fact that us older gamers who I remind you are still the core game buyers in the world and likely the ones buying these games for the kiddo's have consoles and PC's. I will ALWAYS wait for the PC version over the console versions. I only buy the console version if there will not be a PC version.

This is a pretty large assumption/mistake you are making right now in my opinion.

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Tech-Hedz

This is sad to hear from a man who led the revolution of computer gaming. The first person to produce an actual 3d engine on the PC has and believe in the PC evolution. I grew up with Carmack being one of my biggest hero's. I wish he would put forth his effort in using todays computer hardware technology like the did in the past. Being able to amaze us how he did in the past just to amaze us. It is almost as if he has sold out for the money. Now that's all it seems about. Boo ID software. :( Sadface

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Incognito

I agree with your sentiment, but technically speaking John Carmack (nor id) did not create the first 3D engine on the PC. Descent had a full six-degrees-of-freedom 3D engine about a year before Quake 1 and Duke Nukem 3D was about 6 months ahead of Quake. Wolfenstein and Doom don't count since they weren't really 3D - it was just a 3D effect (you couldn't look up and down, etc). Anyway, I know I'm probably coming off as a "know it all" or nitpicking, but I just see this thrown around a lot. No doubt that John deserves much credit for the success of the 3D FPS as his games definitely popularized the genre.

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ElectricJazz

Wolf3D was also 2.5D with 2D sprite NPCs in a 3D world. But yes, Descent was true 3D and it was before Quake.

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dgrmouse

There's no need to get emotional... Rage is, realistically, the last from-scratch engine that iD will ever create.  BTW, Abrash was the guru - not Carmack.

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Cooketh

This is a joke.

You telling me it's impossible to develope something with a PC-centric focus and then DOWNSCALE it for a console?

Why is it that PC gamers get the console port crap, but developers never take the other approach and develope for PC and create a port it to console?

Lame as hell, all you need to do is turn the resolution and visuals down, do some extra codework (for 360 this is a cake walk when porting from PC), and bug test.

Tired of hearing this crap and tired of getting gimped, never buying an ID game again, they can join Ubisoft on my shit list.

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ElectricJazz

ID actually did that with Doom 3. Exclusively developed for PC and then later ported over to the Xbox.

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Vano

The answer is: for consoles they don't have to support hundreds different hardware configurations.

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ripple

I just bought an XBOX 360 so that I could play Gears of War 3. I will always be a PC gamer first, but it's definitely a sign of the times when the game is only available on one console.

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Incognito

Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, the biggest payday is on the consoles so developers are going to give them the most attention.

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Danthrax66

This is a misconception. If you break consoles into the seperate systems PC sales are comparable. It is only if you group them together that they represent more sales. And each console needs a seperate dev team anyway to make them work on the various systems. The reason they don't want torelease for PC is because it is constantly getting better while the consoles stay the same so it requires a little bit more work and talent to program for the PC and iD is basically saying they have no talent just code monkeys.

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t.y.wan

If they are aiming for the console gamers, then why even bother with the pc version...

Releasing a... unfinished, flawed, whatever you want to call it version to a pc market, and expect gamers just to accept it?

Sounded weird... at least to me, it's just plain stupid marketing...

Even this annoucement sololy would lessen the pc market.

If you don't like it, don't do it. If you are doing it, try your best not to do a bad job at it and say trash afterward.

Personally, I don't think if you made an effort in correcting the problem. Plainly saying, "O, we aimed at the console version and just ported it to PC. If it is badly done, well, we did aim for the consoles."

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cocallahan

"I'm sorry, John Who?" is what people would be saying if the PC wasn't around for Carmack and his company to design on. That said, good for iD, I'd go where the money is too.

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Cache

Carmack suggests that because the horse is a known, reliable platform with known feeding schedules, known flaws, that it provides the best travel since a car has so many other issues with multiple manufacturers, makes, and models.

Well Mr. Carmack, it's all well and good if the best you can do is work with a horse.  The rest of civilization use cars because of the inherent benefits, despite the issues your lackluster grievances convey.  Rather than galvanize an industry, you have chosen instead to retreat.  A pity to think that you are no longer the capable, strong voice the PC industry needed years ago.  

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stradric

Your car analogy broke down as soon as you tried to use it to make a point.

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Insurgence

If it wasn't for the fact that you could take a look at the original release of the game and know that they did not do jack to really port it over, I couldn't care less about whether or not they did a console first approach. For me it is more of whether or not the game is enjoyable. But the original release just screamed shitty port, and from a company like id, I would expect more effort put into just the porting process.

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don2041

I gave up PC gaming a few years ago when it seemed every new game needed a new computer in order to play it. I think that I would game again if consoles used mouse and keyboard instead of gamepads, my thumbs are far too slow and crippled for them.

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Danthrax66

That was just crysis. All the newer games can pretty much be played on an nVidia 8800 still. The only game that might require an upgrade in the near future is BF3 (and Crysis obviously but you can turn that game down and it plays fine). PC gaming is still held back by consoles because of the directX issue but once we get a new gen of consoles then there will actually be a need for a new PC/graphics card.

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Marthian

two things:

1. PC gaming has slowed down in that regards, you don't need to buy a new graphics card every new game and the high end gpus can cost as simply as $200 to play at 1080p at medium to high settings.

2. There ARE some mods that let you map keyboard and mouse input to xbox 360/ps3.

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maleficarus™

Well Don your not educated enough on PC hardware to be a PC gamer. This might sound rude but a spade is a spade no matter how much to try to make it a club!

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don2041

You don,t  know me or my education. And you are rude

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