John Carmack: Kudos to Valve, but Not Many Linux Users are Willing to Pay for Games

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price_th@yahoo.com

MS has made it very clear that they don't want desktops anymore with Win 8. No problem, the only thing that has kept me with MS is ease of use with gaming. This is a great move by Valve and will position them and Linux to take a big bit out of MS's a$$. Can't wait!

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TrollBot5000

I'm probably wrong but I have a suspicion that silencer is either paul's sock account or someone else at mpc.

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TrollBot5000

As limited as it is it's good to see some native gaming support. For me personally I've come to the conclusion that it's just a more fulfilling desktop experience to use windows 7. Sure running antivirus and maintenance tasks and dealing with microsofts god awful update system is a hassle but its worth it. I was a linux user for quite some time and praised its glory but in the end (and I know im being captain obvious) there are just more apps for windows. Sure if your needs are basic like web/email/docs etc then linux is great. My mom's old xp home machine runs flawless with mint lxde. If you're a serious gamer you need windows (duh) Running in wine works but only to a certain extent. IF youre running an amd graphics card dont even think about running linux. Some side notes 1. Linux sucks ass as a music workstation --Ardour is the only option and it sucks. 2. for photo editing from what I'm told GIMP is just as good as photoshop. 3 Lightworks is coming to linux so video editing problems will be solved. But why use linux when it just isn't as mature as windows or even mac. I know some don't want to pay for windows but thats what Piratebay is for! You could say well you can dual boot but whats the point of dualbooting with linux?? Running live distros off a usb stick is probably the coolest thing linux does and it comes in handy sometimes but as a desktop OS just watch Bryan Lunduke's videos on why linux sucks/doesnt suck. Linux fanbois that want to start an arguement with me please do so I can bury your arguement in the desert where it won't be seen or heard from again.

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DoctorX

no... if you are a gamer... unfortunately windows is it right now. I am running win8 cp for that reason. However I would love to go linux fulltime especially with everything working in linux now. As i said before, I am running xubuntu 12.04 and everything just works. The only thing i had to hack was the vpn because i didnt want to use the software work provides that wont let you print to your home printer.

I never said linux was the best for everything, but lack of games is holding it back. Never used it as a music station, but then again i dont create music. All the multimedia that i have runs fine and sounds great. So I cannot comment on that.

Gimp is very powerful, especially when you add all the extensions. I run it on windows also.

For the odd program that requires windows, instead of dualbooting, just run it in a virtualbox vm. I do this for the rare windows program that i cannot get to work.

Go back a year, things were like you said. But before you bury linux completely, try the current versions. Since Linux went to the 3.x kernel, driver support has greatly improved.

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NoGoN

Doctor X you need to really close your mouth with the whole Linux is better than Windows cause its not and wont be for at least another 10-15 years and thats even IF it makes it that far. Nothing you can say will change that cause its the truth you will probley put some dumb ass comment about how it will be someday but right now its not looking good for you and the facts are on my side. Windows is better hands down (windows 8 sucks true) but Windows 7 is amazing and in every way better. Linux just wont have the support, it almost can't happen. Valve is only bringing over Left 4 Dead which is one single game...and the reason they can do that is they have nothing to lose period even if the game doesnt sell they lost nothing cause they are that huge of a company (even if people who bought it get it free for linux still means nothing). Sorry you linux fanboys will never get what you truly want which is games. Not worth it for the industry to break apart windows when windows does it all just fine. Carmack is right. My rant has ended.

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crazybigdan

yeah man, what's up with the bigoted, uninformed rant? Linux is great, and there are somethings that it most certainly *can* do better then Windows. Just the sheer amount of things you can customize in linux fattens the list out. Sure games *ATM* are done better on Windows then Linux, but that just proves that the two have their respective strengths and weaknesses.

Windows 7 is great, but Linux is certainly not worthless and is pretty damn good. Stop your ignorant bashing.

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DoctorX

Windows used to be better... shut your mouth yourself. This is what is called a debate... Maybe going to school, they will teach you that. How old are you? Respect goes a long way.

You dont realize you use linux everyday. They all use the same kernel. The desktop has improved greatly in just a year. Unless you actually try Linux, you have nothing to say.

You are wrong about Valve. Maybe you should learn to read. Gabe has said all the Valve games are getting ported and they are actively working with the other publishers on porting. l4d2 is the start and once they get it right on that title, they will roll it out to the rest.

Apparently you have not been paying attention. MS is abandoning the desktop and they have stated the money isnt in the desktop anymore.. but in tablets.

Quit with the personal attacks.

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Belboz99

Right, same reason users of Google Chrome don't pay for Windows, Android users don't buy apps, Firefox users never buy games, and users of Google Doc's wouldn't possibly purchase a pricey software such as Adobe Photoshop, yeah.

Linux is free because it you can't put a price on it, not because only cheapskates and poor folk will use it.

Dan O.

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DoctorX

what drugs are you on? I have bought every version of windows since 3.1. I use chrome and firefox due to the inherent security improvements over ie. Ie has gotten much better, but i just dont like it. I have spent about $200 of apps in android. My company which again is a multinational is moving to gapps... and let me tell you, we are not afraid to spend millions on it. Photoshop is overrated and has been for 10 years. Gimp can do almost everything needed. 99% of people dont need to spend $100s on a program if it isnt needed. However we have no problems buying software when it makes sense. Look at the hunble bundle. It would look like windows are the cheapskates. Linux outspent windows 2 to 1. How do you explain that? Linux is free? lets see... we use rhle 6 right now for $2500 per seat at work. That gives us all the support we need. For the desktop, most people dont buy windows either. They get it with a new pc. Here is a quarter.. buy a clue.

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satrain18

"Linux outspent windows 2 to 1" Does that figure include servers?

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DoctorX

what? i was talking about the humble bundle.

http://support.humblebundle.com/customer/portal/articles/281031-prior-bundle-statistics

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bpstone

I myself find it funny to see all the biased and ignorant comments about Linux. There are a bunch of limelight myths that need to put to rest.

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lindethier

I'm all for Steam going onto Linux. I'm a bit of a Linux newbie, but I do like to play around with the different distros.

In my experience, I don't usually run into any problems with drivers for my hardware.

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psycoking

I get the feeling that Linux is something of an "If you build it, they will come" situation. Once the software that people want (ie games) is there, more people will start switching over to Linux. With more people using Linux, companies will be much more willing to make Linux software, which will attract even more people. And with a larger user base, there will be more cries for better usability and driver support on Linux, which will cause the various distros to improve overall, resulting in even more users.

Valve is trying to get that first step off the ground by bringing games to Linux. And they are doing it at a good time too. Windows 8 and Metro have pretty much split the community, causing people to look toward other OSes. I know I'm not the only one who started experimenting with Linux after trying Windows 8. ^_^

I have high hopes for Steam on Linux (though I'm well aware they might not come true). Native Linux games would be great, but I'm hoping Valve also plans on adding some Play On Linux style support for playing Windows games on Steam through Wine, in much the same way it currently offers support for playing old DOS games though DOSBox.

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ohsnaps1104

I love how Linux junkies say "It's Linux it just works". Eh, no it doesn't "just work". I ran Linux for about 2 years as my sole OS and I now have Ubuntu Studio installed on my netbook. You could get one poorly programmed piece of software you downloaded from anywhere or try to run "system updates" and it might obliterate your whole OS installation. I've NEVER seen it happen on a Windows machine. Don't even get me started on audio/video codecs. Some distros just choose to blatantly ignore audio/video codecs altogether. Hardware support is a serious hit and miss as well. I have a high-end usb wifi adapter that has no Linux support at all. In all honesty, Linux does run amazingly fast on high-end gamer rigs. I installed Ubuntu 10.10 on my Phenom II and almost layed an egg. It does need a lot of work, though. At this point if I were to jump from Windows I'd buy an Apple. At least the OS is stable, and hardware support is decent.

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DoctorX

there is your mistake... try the ubuntu variants... not ubuntu itself. Ubuntu studio was a pos and still is. when you install ubuntu or kubuntu or xubuntu... there is a little check box for codecs. Check that and all your ills are gone. Better yet, just use Linux Mint since all that stuff is already in there. Not a hit or miss. I can view any file (including wtv files) or any website video in existence. I did nothing else.
Ubuntu 10.10 is old and very out of date. It has improved big time since.

I have never had the issues you have, at least in the last 5 years.

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ohsnaps1104

What I meant was that I had 10.10 installed when it was a supported release. They do feature the check-box for Ubuntu Studio by the way (I never bother). I don't like KDE4 or Gnome 3, they seem resource heavy and bloated to me. Unity is kind of okay once you get around to figuring it out, but again it feels too heavy to me. XFCE drives me nuts as hardware support is weird, and theme setup is awkward. I have tried just about every major distro out. Some distros like Fedora, PCLinuxOS, or Open Suse I couldn't get to cooperate with me. I do like Mint, but it is a bit of a hassle to properly theme with the custom menu. Studio seems to work great. I think I'll try out Mint Debian again. Because I miss having Compiz.

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ohsnaps1104

I don't mean to bash Linux. It is a good OS, just not ready for mainstream yet.

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DoctorX

yes... it just works. sorry.

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Xenite

Linux being mainstream is a joke anyways, will never happen.

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DoctorX

hmmm... didnt they say that with windows? osx? ios? android? learn your history. Linux just needs a chance and a little luck. Windows 8 may just be that luck.

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Wingzero_x

No actually I don't remember hearing people say anything like that about Windows, OSX, or iOS. Perhaps people may have commented on certain aspects of them, but I don't think anybody said any version of Windows wasn't ready for launch other than the Linus freetards that keep prehistoric hardware on hand.

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DoctorX

either you are too young or clueless... Windows was an abortion until windows 98 se. Windows xp was actually very bad until sp2. osx was the same way with even less market % than linux has today. Apple was all but written off as a player in the computer space. ios was written off as a mistake...

as for windows not ready for launch... where do i start?
windows98 bad
windows98SE good
winxp (which everyone loves) very bad.. extrememly unstable and a security nightmare.
winxp sp1 better
winxp sp2 very good.
vista bad
vista sp1 better
vista sp2 better still
win7 good
win7 sp1 better
win8 ????

quit using the freetard name, it just takes all credibility from you. We are not freetards.. we spend $1000s of dollars on hardware and software, but prefer not to have some overlord telling us how to use our own pcs.

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Happy

Well put DoctorX, very well put. You basically took the words right out of my mouth.

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Peanut Fox

Why would someone who likes Windows but doesn't like Windows 8 choose Linux over Windows 7?

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davelray

They wouldn't.

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DoctorX

because linux is still improving.. windows 7 to windows 8 is not an improvement.

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Wingzero_x

Linux has been improving for how many decades now? Where are the mass deployments that weren't government mandated? Like in Munich, which BTW has since reversed that policy because they found out Windows really was better.

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DoctorX

ok... keep believing that... my company, which is a multinational, has started removing most windows servers for linux. Ubuntu is now a supported desktop. MS office is getting deprecated. Windows is getting deprecated. OSX and Linux getting promoted. Yea... windows is so much better. Munich reversed course due to MS not exactly playing fair.

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satrain18

"Not Many Linux Users are Willing to Pay for Games" That's because Linux users want EVERYTHING to be free.

"It's great that people are enthusiastic about it, but there's just not nearly as many people that are interested in paying for a game on the [Linux] platform and that just seems to be the reality." That's because of Linux's low market share.

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DoctorX

you are so full of shit. just check out the humble bundle... try again.

Linux has low market share because the fud is rampant and noone is making games for it... if id,blizzard and valve can throw their weight behind linux, it would flourish.

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davelray

Well let's see, so far we have iD software. They've been loosely supporting linux for at least a decade and a half. At least in some form. Valve has already announced they are going to finish their steam client for linux and port over LFD2. As to the rest of the Steam catalog, that remains to be seen. There are a large number of titles up on the Steam store that they have no control over whether it will be ported or not. But at least linux users that are into gaming will start to see a trickle of mainstream games coming their way and not just the indie games they've had access to in the past. As for Blizzard, while they may agree with Valve concerning Windows 8, they have yet to support linux in any real capacity. There has yet to be a native version of Warcraft, or Diablo, or the WoW client ported directly to linux. I've installed WoW client under WINE and quite frankly the fps and latency were horrible, the game play was rough to the point where five minutes into a raid I had to drop out and boot back into Windows. And that's not even going into my gripes about the UI and fonts. There have been no announcements or plans from Blizzard to support anything beyond Windows and MacOSX. So I don't see them as throwing their support behind Linux just yet. Cross your fingers though.

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DoctorX

We can hope though

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triclops41

It is a bit frustrating to see the vast majority of those disagreeing with Carmack accusing him of saying things he clearly did not, or making points either he or someone else already refuted.

He was making positive points, you fools are making normative arguments against them.

You guys would learn a ton if you just listened to him. Honestly, if you just listened to Gabe Newell, John Carmack, and Will Wright, you wouldn't such like such ignorant forum trolls.

Instead, you guys should just flame my post, it is far easier.

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DoctorX

ok ... done... Did you read the article? Did you read Carmack's words the last 4 years?

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Hexorg

Yea, I never bought an ID game for linux. You know wny? Because that game comes out for linux 5 years after I've beat it 10 times on windows.

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Slugbait

The public beta for Quake was released for Linux first, then for Windows a short time later. The final version for Linux was released the same year as the Windows version. But you couldn't buy it, you had to download it...three years later, the Linux version was re-released as a retail product packaged with both expansion packs. You weren't the only one who didn't buy it.

We had to wait considerably less than 2 years for the Linux version of Quake II to be released after the Windows version...not 5.

We only waited a few months for the Linux version of Quake III to be released after the Windows version.

The Linux installer for Quake 4 was released two days after the Windows version.

The Linux version of Doom 3 was released two months after the Windows version.

The Linux version of Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released four months after the Windows version.

The actual truth is, you never bought an id game for Linux because you never knew it existed...

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Hexorg

Oh.. haha true

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kixofmyg0t

People will pirate anything. Look at Dead Trigger for Android. It was only 0.99¢ but piracy was crazy for it. Funny thing is now that the game is FREE people STILL pirate it. Its f#cking free....why are people pirating it?

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Kinetic

Does the free version have ads? If so probably because of that.
I don't pirate, just my guess.

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Kinetic

Pardon my ignorance, but I missed a great deal of Win8 VS Gaming articles as my internet was down for almost a month.
My question is this: Is Windows 8 going to be forced upon us as a requirement to play some games like Live was? Or are new games going to get along fine with my current Win7 OS?

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winmaster

How would MS force you to upgrade to play games? Unless your using Games for Windows Live, MS doesn't even distribute games.

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fry

Good god. If you think modern Linux distros are hard to use, you haven't been around very long. Installing Ubuntu is completely brainless these days, and there's rarely any reason to open a terminal window.

Linux is fighting decades of intertia. It's hard to overcome lack of compatbility with the mountain of software available to Windows users. But Apple has proven software companies will port their products if they can see a market exists.

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jonnyohio

I installed Linux on a little computer I had collecting dust about two weeks ago. It was the easiest thing ever...I didn't even have to find drivers for any of the hardware, and there is this app you open and go into an online app store and get free software and games for it. Yeah not hard at all.

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DoctorX

Exactly!!!! Linux is absolutely easier to install than even windows 8. Do you have a harddisk to install on? Did you burn the iso of the distro to dvd/cd (usually dvd)? Do you know what your time zone is? Do you know what your name is? Do you know what your password will be? If not, then yes, Linux is very hard... But to install windows is a bitch in comparison.

I am getting sick and tired of all the windows fanbois that say linux is too hard... f*ck... I can stand a linux box up and have everything loaded in it in less than 10 hours ... that includes wine, crossover, etc.. including MS Office if needed.

On the exact same box with windows 7 and 8, It takes me just 10 hours to get the proper drivers installed, windows patched and everything else, before installing the software. It can take for a basic install up to 3 days. And, it isnt for the squimish. For example, I am a enterprise admin for a multinational and i am responsible for the backup servers. I have ran windows 7 and xubuntu 12.04, kutuntu 12.04, linux mint 10,11,12 on the same hardware. I can rebuild my laptop in hours with linux and it takes a 3 days to get everything installed and working correctly on windows. I am no amateur on windows either having been an admin on them since 3.1.

All you fanbois that havent done shit with their pcs but gaming need to grow up a bit. I love my gaming and have to be on windows for them, but once they are on linux, i am there.

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roleki

More people would take your perfectly valid observations about Linux to heart if you weren't so determined to prove you're a retard at Windows as a counterpoint. Waving around the fact that it's taken you 20 years to arrive at this level of incompetence doesn't add credence to your argument, either.

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DoctorX

wtf? who pissed in your wheaties? what is with the personal attacks shithead?

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Penterax

Linux users have been doing this for years; "it runs faster than it does on Windows".

Yeah? well, how much faster does it run the game made for DirectX than Windows does? What's that you say, it can't run DirectX?

The fact is, DirectX has been the best API suite for games for many years, and the only reason Linux runs these games "faster" is that they aren't turning on all the eye candy you get if you run DX. Runs faster? Sure. Looks as good or better? umm, no (though I'm sure there are plenty of Linux fans that will say "it looks fine to me!")

I'm all for Linux going head-to-head with Windows, and Ubuntu is making real progress in that area, but stop with the misleading "information", it doesn't help your case, it hurts it.

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pixelpopper

Sorry, this one struck a nerve... That is actually not correct. There have not been any major AAA game releases on Linux for a long time, but OpenGL 4.x is absolutely as capable an API as DirectX11, if not better.. The only reason dev's dont use OpenGL is bacuse there is no need to when you are developing for Microsoft software. Install your disto on an a decent rig with an Nvidia Directx11 capable graphics card and run any of the Unigine tech demos , especially Heaven on it and see what I am talking about. Tesseltaion works , lighting is beutiful and it looks a hell of a lot better than its DX11 counterpart. I used to run Quake 2 and 3 on Linux and it DID run faster than Windows at the same graphics settings. I have been running Steam in wine for a long time and (most) of the games run just as well as in Windows directly, even with the extra overhead that comes with using Wine. The only thing holding back Linux from the mainstream is developers jumping on that bandwagon, and with the masses using Android and IOS now, using a new OS is not quite the scary proposition it once was, especially when Linux can so easily be dumbed down for an average user. Im not sure what to make of a lot of Carmacs comments recently, he seems to make a lot of rash comments that often contradict each other.

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DoctorX

This

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