John Carmack: Keyboard-Mouse Still Better Than Controller for FPSes, Tightening Up Graphics on Level Three

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ghot

Then I don't care what you think...but if you're referring to J Carmack...then you're a moron!  He practically created the gaming industry....when Doom I came out it was so well recieved that it almost shut down the business world because so many people (at that time) that had computers were office workers...and they just could NOT stop playing his game....Carmack is a plain out and out genius....and those that judge books by their cover ...well don't even rate idiot status  :/  You'd have to work up to that!

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Spider-Mom

but it doesnt take a genius to know that KBM is bette than a joy stick for FPSs bro.

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redundant

Are you serious? Is this guy redundant or taking a shit. Seriously, this guy looks like a retard trying to hump a door knob. Damn!

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Keith E. Whisman

Who are you referring to?

 

BTW Will I didn't make that post... LOL... 

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ghot

That doesn't change the fact that a joystick is way better than a keyboard  / mouse combo in ANY game.

A plain old MS Precision 2 has 8 buttons and a hat control.....if you have a shooter that can use more buttons than that then you dont have a shooter, you have a simulator.  You stick to your joypads and keyboards  and I'll be watchin you take dirt naps.....that is....if the devs only let me USE a Joystick with an FPS!

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LatiosXT

In case this "joysticks rule the world" guy hasn't noticed, the topic only pertains to FPS control. Keyboard + Mouse still is one of the best schemes for this sort of application. Why? Everything you need in an FPS can be easily accessed, realistically there's only one speed you're going to move at which is running, and it's hard to get precise aiming with a joystick unless you've been playing on it for a long time. Plus the mouse feels a bit more immersive for using a gun than a gamepad. Sure, you can have your triggers, but I'd like the freedom to point and shoot.

But I wouldn't use a keyboard and mouse for say a jet fighter game. The mouse is too sensitive for that, not to mention there's no frame of reference. Likewise for a driving simulator, I'd prefer a full analog steering wheel and pedals (they do sell those with discrete pedals) over both the joystick and buttons.

In my view though, as a gamer, you should be able to adapt to any control scheme if that's all you have, rather than whine and complain about not having what you want.

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hbar98

Egads, but I hated that commercial.  TPS has a comic spoof of that commercial somewhere.

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squarebab

"his heart....has a hard-on...and he's not afraid to show it"?  WTF?  I laughed at the image and then cringed at the prose.

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weaslem32

I agree that the keyboard/mouse combo rules the day. However, this was one joystick that reigned supreme, even in FPS. It was called the Panther XL made by MadCats. This was especially a killer joystick when it was modded. The originals came with a giant trackball on the left side that was analog. Many people, including myself, stripped it and inserted an optical sensor and replace the trackball with one that was opaque and then look out. I could run circles around people with kb/m and not even have to pick up a mouse to retrack. The only bad thing about this Joystick was that MadCatz discontinued support for it and they eventually, like everything else, get to a point where they were unrepairable. In fact though, there was one clan/guild or group of gamers that was formed specifically in jest of the joystick. It was called Clan Assasin 3d. They still have a site up and continue to mod Panther Xl's. check them out at www.clana3d.org.

metropolis has you.

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Keith E. Whisman

I checked out that website and the PantherXl indeed does look awsome. It's $150 bucks for one with a Microsoft mouse or $200dollars for one with a Logitech mouse. Do you know if the Logitech mouse offers higher precision of the microsoft on this joystick?

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Keith E. Whisman

I hope nobody has forgotten here that John Carmack is a FPS guy and the Keyboard and Mouse are king. That is what he is referring to I'm sure as I've never seen a flight sim or any other game with his name on it. He developes the game engines that drive the high end graphics in the FPS that he helps develop. He's awsome because he's been doing it for a very very long time and look at the FPS titles under his belt like Doom.

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ghot

Nothing beats a regular old Joystick....notthing!   There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of blue collar workers, that have coordinated hands, but are finger-challenged.  So far the ONLY game I've play with a keyboard mouse combo that is actually simple and easy to use is Diablo II LoD.  Install and fire that game up and see if you don't agree.  Granted, genius coders like yourself, probably type 80-100 wpm....not ALL the world is so gifted.

They don't put Joysticks in airplanes because they are difficult to use.  Gamepads are simply ridiculous, unless you're 13 yrs old and haven't already destroyed your' finger coordination.  Even the very 1st Nintendo controller caused me unbelievable pain after a 1-2 hour session.  A Joystick simply doesn't do that.  I spent 30 years using TOOLS.....my fingers just aren't up to the twicth reflexes anymore.  There are millions of people in the same boat.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a 2-3 finger typist....WASD is a gargantuan failure as far as I am concerned.  However, I realize that al people don't have this problem...so the simple solution is to provide the means to choose your' interface.  There is nothing stopping game devs from making the option available to use the keyboard/mouse combo, the gamepad, or the joystick for any game.

Otherwise, keep coding the games that have already proven your' genius.  Just add the option to choose a joystick (aka MS Sidewinder or logitech variety).

Don't get sad, but I'm an RPG fan, and even so, there is no reason that the game should come without the option for joystick control.  

Your still my, and half the worlds hero, for the simple fact that when you release a game it .....works.  That attention to detail is almost a lost art, due to bottomline considerations.  Thanks for the caring  :)

 

 

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Asator

WASD is horrible, there's another layout called Dvorak (which is a guys name NOT the order the keys are laid out in) which is laid out in a far better way and people can type much faster with it than with QWERTY but sadly, I only heard about this after i'd already been using QWERTY for over 10 years so relearng how to type is a little too much work now.

 For FPS's using a joystick for movement is overrated - you almost never need or want to move at less than full speed and when you do a simple toggle like shift is adequate. For aiming a mouse is simply a more appropriate tool as well - it can move your aim to exactly the point you want because it moves as fast as you move it and stops when you stop. With a joystick you have to compensate for not being able to stop it immediatly (unless you're moving the view at the slowest rate possible which is not a good idea in any FPS!).

 Joysticks are appropriate in planes and other vehicles because you do NOT want to stop a maneouvre suddenly, and in fact can't most of the time. In combat flight sims you're usually aiming at a target which is continuously moving in multiple axes in a craft which can move in all three dimensions. A joystick would have some advantage tracking players moving across your screen at a constant rate perhaps, that's all the pro's ill give it in FPS's.

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horzo

no.

 

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Muerte

have been polite.

I, on the other hand, am just going to say one thing.

Your wrong.

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Tacticus

There are different control systems for different purposes.

You have joysticks in planes because that's what works for them.

For an fps you get a mix of vector controls (wasd,esdf) and positional (x,y on the mouse) giving a combination that really does win compared to every other setup out there  you also get all the extra keys you want

compare this to a dual joystick setup on consoles and you find that they need aimbots (and other cheats(oops i mean optimisations)) to survive against bots let alone real people. hell if you look at shadowrun they had to completly nerf the pc side just to keep it competitive

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Spider-Mom

uuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh playing a game doestn really count as "typing." Alls you do is rest your fingers on 4 keys and most of the time you only ever have to move your mid finger up or down one space. That hardly requires a 100 WPM proficenency.

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Chocolate

Heck ya its better. Anyone going to contradict that? Ive tried consoles and hate it. I like them for Racing games and Sprots games, thats it. Did they ever do that thing with xbox live where you can play xbox v.s. PC?

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