Is Windows 7 M3 Build 6801 Really "Vista R2?"
Posted 11/12/08 at 03:56:08 PM | by Mark Edward Soper
InfoWorld's Randall C. Kennedy has put Windows 7's Milestone 3 pre-beta build 6801, a freebie from last month's Microsoft Professional Developer's Conference, through a variety of benchmark tests, and isn't all that impressed:
As I reported on my Enterprise Desktop blog, the more I dug into Windows 7, the more I saw an OS that looked and felt like a slightly tweaked version of Windows Vista.
At his blog, Kennedy complains that Windows 7 is:
Just as slow as Vista...Just as consumer-focused as Vista...Just as confusing as Vista...
Kennedy cites these similarities:
- The number of execution threads in key subsystems is almost the same in Windows 7 as in Vista
- Benchmarks of Windows 7 and Vista Ultimate SP1 using the DMS Clarity Studio tools suite show almost identical results
- Similar amounts of RAM are used by Windows 7 and Windows Vista
From these facts and visual similarities between Windows 7 and Vista, Kennedy concludes:
Bottom line: So far, Windows 7 looks and behaves almost exactly like Windows Vista. It performs almost exactly like Vista. And it breaks all sorts of things that used to work just fine under Vista. In other words, Microsoft's follow-up to its most unpopular OS release since Windows Me threatens to deliver zero measurable performance benefits while introducing new and potentially crippling compatibility issues.
Is Kennedy right? Here's what I think is the problem with Kennedy's performance analysis: he's comparing a pre-beta with a finished product that already has one service pack under its hood, and he's complaining that the pre-beta he tested isn't any faster than its mature predecessor. In my experience, this is actually outstanding performance for a pre-beta.
I'm the author of two books on Windows Vista and I have contributed to several others, and as a consequence I was using various beta versions of Windows Vista from early 2006 on. Those releases of Vista were almost unbearably slow on my HP dv5000-series laptop, but the same computer running Vista Ultimate SP1 is now much faster when performing the same or even more complex tasks. Day 1 performance of Windows Vista was way better than with the early betas, and it's even better now with SP1, and yet a pre-beta of Windows 7 is already reaching comparable performance levels. I'd have been thrilled with this level of performance on the betas of Windows Vista I ran, and we're still many months away from a production release of Windows 7.
Although I haven't had a chance to try Windows 7 yet, many reviewers online and MaximumPC.com readers have tried the pre-beta of Windows 7 and like it, reporting better speed than with Vista and high overall satisfaction, whether running it as a native OS or within the limitations of a virtualized environment.
So, what should you believe? Hopefully, by the end of 2008 or in early 2009, you'll be able to make up your own mind by installing the public beta of Windows 7. In the meantime, hit Comment and tell us your experiences with Windows 7 (good, bad, and ugly).
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is windows 7 really vista r2
Submitted by Ncnr8r on Sat, 2008-11-22 13:23
i don't get it, i really don't, everyone say's that vista is that bad, why is it that bad? I use both vista sp1 and xp sp3. sure xp may be a tad quicker, but i have absolutely no problems with vista, runs all my games, apps, whatever else with no complaints, definitely more user friendly than xp, recognizes hardware better then xp. I've experienced no lockups, no freezing or any other glitches, that's not quite true, once in a while i get a hiccup, but i believe you get a hiccup with any operating system, even linux, i think the big hype about vista not being a good os, is missinformation, rather than informed information, vista may not be the perfect os for older systems, but for anything 2 yrs or newer, no probs here, and i'd have to give vista a 9 out of ten. That being said, i don't care about windows 7, go ahead pay your couple hundred bucks for it when it comes out, guaranteed, there's going to be criticism about the much anticipated os from microsoft...but then again, maybe apples commercials may have more to do with spreading propoganda about vista, then what the operating system really is....again i like it, and no problems at this end...have a great day...now back to modern warfare...of course on my vista machine....
Submitted by wolflight on Thu, 2008-11-20 11:14
No it's not dead, you can still buy it online from both Newegg.com and Tigerdirect.com. Also, M$ is still supporting XP until 2011 or so. Also, as there is such a large install base for XP, it will remain supported by hardware manufacturers for a long time to come. You can order it on Newegg for $140. Tigerdirect has it for the same price. Both are for XP Pro Service Pack 3 OEM Version. I'm sure I could find it online for cheaper though if I did a Google search. Vista is bloatware really with several hardware and driver issues yet. Windows 7 is in pre-beta as of yet, so it's impossible to assess what it will be like. However, from what I've read it does indeed seem similar to Vista overall.
What a turd. . .
Submitted by DBsantos77 on Thu, 2008-11-20 07:48
Anyone that has used Windows 7 6801+ knows that is it [u]not[/u] like vista at all.(Performance wise). The difference between Vista and Windows 7 is that with Windows 7, as soon as you see your desktop you can start opening applications and they will open in 2-3 seconds. Not like Vista where even when you see your desktop you can't open any apps and expect it to be fast, because your hard drive is thrashing still taking care of the start-up services. Windows 7 also uses less system resources, my W7 installation has on average less then 30 processes, with a total amount of RAM as less then 500MB. Compare that to the 55 processes in Vista with a total of 900MB.And I tweaked Vista. Making a comparison between Vista and W7 is a lost arguement because W7 has a better handle on processes, and manages tasks a hell of a lot better then Vista. So if this turd still wants to challenge the public's view of the Beta, and not wait for the final release, then what's the use of putting up a fight? Is he running W7 on a Win98 computer or what?
Submitted by einstein1971 on Thu, 2008-11-13 08:40
I did a quick search of the guy and honestly he is a hater. Whether you think the OS is good or not he is going to hate it. Period. I just read his blog and he is a bit paranoid as well. My I suggest that he just take a vacation, relax, and realize that it is just a piece of software and not a religion.
Win7 isn't even a true beta
Submitted by rich5665 on Thu, 2008-11-13 07:17
Win7 isn't even a true beta yet. The version tested was a pre-beta. To make any comparisons to a full blown operating system is like comparing a chasey sitting on an assembly to a running vehicle. When Win7 makes it to a Release Canidate then start making comparison.
I have an idea...
Submitted by gww on Thu, 2008-11-13 06:36
Lets judge it as a completed OS while its still in PRE BETA!
Kennedy thinks Vista is confusing? This comment alone is enough for me to discredit the article. The ability to simply Type what ever I want into the search box and get results nearly instantaneously is not confusing to me...it doesnt get any simplier.
I think Windows 7 will address the biggest complaints people have had about Vista, I mean, how can it not? If you are Microsoft, wouldnt that be job one? Speed, UAC, Compatability, Battery Life.
I agree with a couple of you on here - I have had very few Vista issues after running it for almost 2 years. And have rolled it out to a segment of my users. We have not had 1 user complain about it being "confusing".
hat I would really like to see how ever is a Server 2008 version for Desktop, powershell at the desktop level would be very cool. Maybe this would be the Non-Confusing, Non-Consumer OS Kennedy is looking for.
gw
DUH.......
Submitted by ghot on Thu, 2008-11-13 06:00
Like anyone with 3 brain cells needed Infoworld to annouce this :/
Submitted by dc10ten on Wed, 2008-11-12 20:37
first thing to consider is that this is still a beta release keeping with full fledged service pack 1
second thing is that kennedy is only talking about 1 benchmark.
Submitted by LatiosXT on Wed, 2008-11-12 17:00
One thing I find funny is that I've used Vista since November '07, and while I've had some aches and pains with it, I've yet to have a problem with it as a general use OS. Drivers? Well considering Dell supplies them I can't comment on that. Program compatibility? I've been able to run ModelSim and PSPICE (old simulation programs I use for class) just fine on Vista. Hell, the original C&C Red Alert runs just fine on Vista. Also with some benchmarks of my own I've found out that Vista a fully loaded Vista SP1 scored higher in PCMark 05 and Counter-Strike Source than on a fresh XP SP2 on the same hardware.
Bottom line, Vista isn't that bad (if bad at all). People need to stop listening to these "experts" and start trying the damn software themselves.
It's crazy after all this
Submitted by atomaweapon on Wed, 2008-11-12 16:21
It's crazy after all this time people still hate vista. I like it and don't understand the vitriol that people spew at everything MS does.
Submitted by ProtoJMB on Wed, 2008-11-12 16:13
The server counterpart to Windows 7 will be called Windows Server 2008 R2. IMO that says that Windows 7 will be nothing more than a "refresh" of the previous OS.
I already made this comparison in a previous comment, but I will also say it here. I know we are all saying Vista is today's ME, but maybe it is today's 98? Remember 98 was not a perfect OS when it came out. It had problems with blue screening at the smallest thing, and was overall not very stable. When they came out with 98 Second Edition though, it soon became the best OS till XP came out. So perhaps this new OS coming out will be the "Second Edition" that will redeem Vista. IMO they should just name this either Vista R2 or Vista Second Edition. Then reserve the name "Windows 7" to the TRUE Windows 7 (Version # 7).
It is dumb that they call THIS version Windows 7, as it does not reflect the version number.
I agree though that the guy who reviewed the Pre-Beta gave a pre-mature review. I personally cannot wait to get my hands on the regular BETA. Vista refresh or not, this should prove to be most interesting. If what I am reading from the Win 7 development blogs are completely true, this should prove to be a decent OS. Note that I said it should PROVE TO BE a decent OS based on the blogs. Though I am excited, I will hold reservations till I have fully tried it out.
Submitted by Pyrophorics on Wed, 2008-11-12 15:29
Eh, I don't see how they could get away with just releasing another Vista. I mean Vista has already been a huge failure and I am sure has cost Microsoft a lot of revenue, how can they afford to do it again?
As long as XP stays up no one has any reason to move.
Submitted by angelwolf71885 on Wed, 2008-11-12 16:27
you forgit that alot of the NEW chipsets DONT have xp drivers..
as well as alot of the newer videocards dont have fully updated xp drivers...
Submitted by Spider-Mom on Thu, 2008-11-13 03:02
Thats a lie and nothing else. All the "newer" nvidia cards use THE SAME drivers as the old ones going as far back as the 5 series. Why would ship makers stop stupoorting the largest install base?
maybe cause XP is
Submitted by nekollx on Thu, 2008-11-13 11:15
maybe cause XP is dead?
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/last_ditch_effort_save_windows_xp
Chipset makers aren't goign to support forever a OS that is not shipping new units and only exisits in legacy and downgrade forms from vendors.
Submitted by Spider-Mom on Thu, 2008-11-13 19:35
Uhh...yes they will if it still has the larger install base. Weather its "dead" is irrelevant. If the people buying the new cards are using XP they are going to make drivers for XP. Its that simple.
Any way, your alsoWRONG when you say its dead. If it were dead I wouldnt still be getting updates and service. Didnt they extend the deadline for that to something like 2011 for XP?
Nice try any way!
Submitted by winmaster on Sun, 2008-11-16 19:31
Microsoft extended the extened support (updates, paid for tech-support) until 2014: http://tinyurl.com/yavok2 .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
Submitted by nekollx on Mon, 2008-11-17 09:59
that doesn't change the fact you can't buy a new XP disc, only supluss Stock and downgrades in pre made systems.
GPU vendors are not going to support a OS the consumer cant get easily.
Submitted by winmaster on Tue, 2008-11-18 19:01
Yes, but many people (including me) still have XP installed on their machines. And as long as this is true, it is in the best interest of hardware vendors to develope drivers for XP. And as long as you can get your hands on an XP license, you don't really need to buy a disc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
Submitted by nekollx on Wed, 2008-11-19 11:17
That's just it there are n more XP licenses, you get once chance to Downgrade wit ha new Dell, you can't have a guy running Vista go "you know what lets hit the Staples and get XP instead." You wont find XP.
Agreed
Submitted by dankers on Thu, 2008-11-13 20:53
XP has by far the largest installed user-base market share.
Submitted by nekollx on Fri, 2008-11-14 10:18
windows 3.1 has a even lalrger install base compsing all military, aueronitcs and bussiness systems.
You dont see them making new video card drivers for Windows 3.1 and 98 do you?
Submitted by dankers on Thu, 2008-11-20 17:03
Maybe you're right friend, but your grammar suggests otherwise.
Submitted by nekollx on Thu, 2008-11-20 18:19
Programers speak a language that destroys english grammer.
Submitted by Spider-Mom on Fri, 2008-11-14 17:24
how the hell else would the military or air lines be able to to use it? You think theres a 50MHZ Pentium powering an F-15 strike fighter with 24 megs of ram also? You think they use drivers from 1990 to power the computers in an A WAX? And if 3.1 is still being used then its not dead either. Just because YOU paied for an OS with no real world improvment doesnt mean XP is dead. Wish full thinking any way rite? Your self ownage makes me laugh.
Get a clue.
Submitted by nekollx on Sat, 2008-11-15 15:15
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/microsoft_finally_stops_issuing_licenses_for_windows_3x
While 3.x lives in relative obscurity today, it still has some very
sizeable tasks placed at its feet. Many cash registers and ticketing
systems are still powered by the aging OS. Even in-flight entertainment
systems on some Virgin and Quantas jets use 3.x as their platform of
choice when bringing long-haul flight customers such cinematic
masterpieces as Tim Allen’s, “The Shaggy Dog.”
Submitted by Spider-Mom on Sat, 2008-11-15 15:51
MS must love people like who who blindly buy into their crap withou even thinking about and then assume its better because its newer. Retar.
Submitted by nekollx on Wed, 2008-11-12 17:08
Exactly, people don't have a choice MSis not supporting or producing any new XP disc. Any existing XP is goign to be dwindling stock. And since the SDK isnt beinf ahanded out anymore new games will not be made for XP...
Sorry folks XP is dead, MS burried it, move on.
I can see myself or anyone
Submitted by s3th on Thu, 2008-11-13 00:19
I can see myself or anyone for that matter hating Vista just because of the publicity, forums, and complete ignorant utter of its code instability and other fractures. But in-fact I think Vista is ok for anyone who just needs an OS to put on a new Desktop or laptop , I dont see any major problems, not right off the top atleast. To anyone who knows nothing about the code, or the structure or anything else, Vista looks great. But then you got people who analyze every detail to the most specific points and mention flaws and make this OS look unwanted.
So Id rather go Vista for now, like you said, Drivers are a problem now for newer Hardware etc., and Vista takes care of most of that, and for regular gaming, computing, theirs no point in going insane.
Everybodys a critic
Submitted by popstop785 on Wed, 2008-11-12 15:14
I am looking forward to the Windows 7 beta test. I am interested more then ever now.
Submitted by tom_renton on Wed, 2008-11-12 15:20
Lipstick on a pig!
Submitted by angelwolf71885 on Wed, 2008-11-12 15:36
runs on a netbook with no issues whatsoever
sure 7 has some of the NEW fetures introdused
with vista...but m$ is actuly takeing care and makeing an effort this time around..
when you make big changes thair are inevdably guna be growing pains..
SShhhhh! Never let the truth
Submitted by horzo on Wed, 2008-11-12 15:08
SShhhhh! Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant. There are people absolutely convinced that all Microsoft operating systems after XP are Satan's spawn, and nothing you can say is going to pesuade them otherwise.
Honest advice is this...never buy an OS at launch. Give it a few months for drivers to show up and for the most egregious bugs to be patched out.
Because it uses the same
Submitted by theplustwo on Wed, 2008-11-12 15:26
Because it uses the same driver model as Vista, you won't have to wait at all for Windows 7 drivers to show up. And I agree with Mr. Soper, the performance in the beta being as fast as a released and service packed OS is phenominal. I think this one is going to be really special by the time it's finalized. :)
Submitted by angelwolf71885 on Wed, 2008-11-12 15:37
in 2153 >.<
Submitted by theplustwo on Wed, 2008-11-12 16:54
Nope, it's coming out in time for the holidays next year. :)
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