Haswell Review

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JuliaOfeefe02

If you think Helen`s story is unimaginable,, two weeks ago my brother in law basically also earned $7624 putting in a fourteen hour week from their apartment and there buddy's aunt`s neighbour has done this for six months and got paid over $7624 part-time on their computer. applie the advice on this site, goo.gl/YcMRl

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GoldenMonkey

From what I hear, the USB 3.0 bug is still not fixed and won't be fixed until late July.

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RUSENSITIVESWEETNESS

So Intel is done making $1000 high-end chips?

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tom_m

They're still making LGA 2011 CPUs. LGA 1150 is just replacing 1155.

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whr4usa

+1

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Hey.That_Dude

Intel did what I thought AMD should have done a long time ago. STICK SOME DRAM ON THAT PACKAGE. Sure 128MB isn't that much, but this thing thrashes the AMD APU's because of little bit of extra bandwidth.
Now AMD, get off your ARSE and stick 256MB of GDDR5 on the package for your next APU so we don't have to wait for DDR4 3800Mhz before we get that type of performance.

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yu119995

LOL!!! What???

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-review,3521.html

That's Trinity too; previous gen. Still a generation or two behind on the graphics end I'm afraid.

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dgrmouse

The 4770k doesn't have embedded RAM. He's referring to the Iris Pro models, which in fact do mop the floor with everything else. They can hang w/ a 750M in everything but texturing.

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ddg4005

Looks like I'll be sticking with my Ivy Bridge/Z77-based motherboards for the foreseeable future since most of the changes are architectural-based instead of performance-based. Besides I spent too much on my motherboards to give them up so soon (bought two of Asus's P8Z77-V Premium mainboards).

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gordonung

One thing that make it into the write up is how much longer Z77/LLG1155 will be around. I've seen information from vendors that show 1155 will still be carried as a product through at least this year which kind of explains the price delta between IVB and Haswell. With Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge the switch over was pretty quick. I will say that feedback from other vendors indicate most enthusiasts are already ready to roll on Haswell instead of Ivy Bridge. One vendor told me they had a new Z77 board design in the waiting in case people wanted it over Haswell but for the most part, everyone wants Haswell.

 

The big question here is will Intel roll out another LGA1156 part or is Core i7-3770K the end of the line? I asked the company that and the answer is they declined to comment. I'd take that to mean there may be more mid-range to lower end parts possibly, but I dont' think they'll push it higher than the 3770K part.

 

And I agree, if I had a 3770K box,  I'd stick with it for now.

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Baer

I am getting ready to build my next rigs and I think I am going to go with 2011, probably the 3930K. (I am still presently using I-7 920 DO) I will need add in GPU's anyway (running at 5760 X 1200) so the built in graphics are useless for me. I do not need six cores but if I am going to build high end rigs I want the six cores.
The new chips are exciting for my next Ultrabook or Tablet but not for my next gen workstation/gaming rigs.

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gordonung

At this point, if you can, I'd wait for IVB-E 4930K.

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gordonung

All indications from people I've talked to say it's on the way the latest leaks also show it's on sched for 3Q as well. To me, that usually lines up with an IDF launch. 

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whr4usa

Eggcellent!!

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whr4usa

so Ivy Bridge-EP is definitely happening on schedule still?

as 'plugged-in' to the Intel world as I tend to be I'vn't seen anything official on this either way...and have been planning my first 'personal' dual-socket IBEP build for a couple years now literally

can you shed any light on this Gordon..?

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danwat1234

Looks like Haswell does give a decent bump.

I have a G50VT gaming laptop with a last generation (Penryn) Core 2 duo in it, an X9100 and can overclock it to 3.5GHZ.
I estimate that in single performance, the new Haswell CPUs aren't 2x the performance clock for clock. By Skylake they definitely will be though.
Then I think I'll buy myself a midrange CPU'ed 6-core Skylake laptop with midrange video card (so it's not too heavy). A nice big mSATA SSD and 6TB of hybrid hard drive.

Might wait for Skymont for 10nm to get higher loaded clocks on the 6-core CPU.

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thematejka

Well, I guess the enthusiasts hate Intel now, but I guess they felt the understandable need to match AMD with their processor-type offerings.

At a pure nerdy level, these are interesting processors that should open up very cool avenues for future performance computing. To boot, they offer performance for the lay-people that don't give a s**t about processing in the way that enthusiasts do. Nice Job!

This is a big step for Intel. Big steps don't have to be defined by more raw processor power making significant differences in speed. There is already enough speed out there anyways (until software catches up, that is)...

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whr4usa

+1

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ripple

This is NOT an enthusiast chip and never will be, plain and simple!

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wumpus

Then don't expect another enthusiast [CPU] chip for a long time. Intel cares about mobile, and isn't worried about AMD.

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whr4usa

here's the real enthusiast chip...if your budget only allows a single socket system I mean (:

ark.intel.com/products/65729/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1245-v2-8M-Cache-3_40-GHz

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116909&Tpk=e3-1245%20v3&IsVirtualParent=1

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John Pombrio

(repeat from another of my posts)
The i7-4770K is a letdown for the enthusiast desktop folks. The architecture was expressly designed for low power consuming devices and has an integrated voltage regulator (making the 4770K temperature a good 5-10C hotter than Ivy Bridge). Scaling Haswell up to the desktop 4770k has created a chip that runs very hot EVEN IN ITS DEFAULT CLOCK SETTING. Some folks are reporting 80C with stock clocking and a good air cooler under a heavy load or stress test, much higher than Ivy Bridge's i7-3770K (which is also thermally challenged).
Overclocking Haswell is therefore problematic and limited. Forget about 5.0GHz o/c results that were leaked. ASUS tested several dozen retail Haswells with air cooling and only one was stable at 4.6GHz and a few at 4.5GHz! The majority were 4.4 and 4.3 was pretty much always reachable. On WATER COOLING and a lot of tweaking the board, the maximum is 4.8GHz but 75% of the chips would only get to 4.5GHz. Luck of the draw on how good your chip does.
Note that most of the early o/c benchmarked chips by websites were selected by Intel and seem to do much better than retail chips (unusual for Intel to play that game).
Stock performance of Haswell over Ivy Bridge is good but with o/cing in mind, not worth it. If you have an overclocked i7-2600k SB or the i7-3770K IB, you have no good reason to upgrade.
No upgrade for me, and as everyone complains, I ALWAYS buy the best toys (just installed my GTX780 and Samsung 256GB 840 Pro last week).

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whr4usa

respectfully John you are not always buying the best toys if you're purchasing an SSD with buggy firmware and an unlocked part which disables everything that makes an Intel chip and Intel chip

why are we complaining about getting 'only' ~4.3+ GHz minimum\average stably..?

sure...an iVRM increases processor exhaust but not as much as it decreases the ambient heat generated by the motherboard and other integrated or slotted components

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pastorbob

You make some valid points John but for me they would be non-issues since I am currently running a 2500K, albeit overclocked to 4.4 Ghz. Even a 4770K oc'ed to only 4.0 Ghz would blow my system away. In reality, so would a 3770K. Just the step up from i5 to i7 would make a world of difference. But the bottom line for me is when I upgrade later this year it will be the Haswell CPU. However, I am concerned somewhat about the heat issues you mentioned. My system only warms up to 50 debrees C when I really push it now and that is on air cooling. I'd hate to think I would be forced to use water cooling. My CM Hyper 212 has served me well.

By the way, haw are you liking the Samsung 840 Pro? I've been drooling over one for several weeks now.

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pastorbob

Oops.

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Radius Prime

Best would be a GTX-Titan or GTX690 (at least in SLI) with LGA2011 i7-3970x cpu. You have a long way to go before you can call your system high end.

I do agree with your statement: Haswell is a complete letdown. We will have to wait on Haswell-E in LGA 2011 before we can judge it on an enthusiast level. Rumour goes it will be released same socket with a different chipset tho. Good news :).

Cheers

Just became a member here and read the dream PC 2012 thread. Wonder why they copied my set up -.-. Anyway great site. Wish I found it sooner.

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whr4usa

your first paragraph; +1

Haswell-E won't be 2011

welcome to the site Radius!!

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killthepoor187

Haswell is great for enthusiasts. While it's probably not worth it to upgrade from Ivy Bridge, it is still much better in terms of architecture efficiency. On top of the performance improvements, Haswell also brings more tools to the overclocking table, which is great.

The temperature is not an issue. It takes 30 seconds to delid, then maybe 15-30 to clean it off and apply CLU to the die. Throw the top back on and put water on it, and I'm better you'll be voltage bound just like on Ivy. Hell, I'm damn near voltage bound on Ivy with a mid range cooler (antec 620, chip is at 1.47v). And don't think delidding is difficult or even particularly risky with the vice method.

No, Haswell is not bad at all for ENTHUSIASTS. I'd even say that it's better than Ivy was compared to Sandy, although I haven't looked through the numbers.

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whr4usa

+1

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Georc16

I've got my eyes on that Gryphon. I'm planning on making my next machine inside a Caselabs Merlin SM5 and that'll fit in there nicely.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

FUCK INTEL!

New processor type should be a TICK

Die shrink should be a TOCK

Fuck you backward Hillbillies!

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wumpus

Intel is a manufacturing company. Not a design company. Things start with a new process. A new design is much less important to them.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Friggin Hillbillies

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whr4usa

'TOCK' is both a physically larger word and louder sound than 'tick' thus TOCK > tick

die shrinkage is just new lithography and new chipsets to better take advantage of the efficiencies that come from that

getting a new chipset, architecture and socket I think you'd agree would be a much larger change no..?

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danwat1234

So Haswell is a tock because it integrates the VRM and no die shrink. Then why is Broadwell just a tick if it integrates the northbridge? I guess because it is also the die shrink down to 14nm.

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whr4usa

your last statement is correct; as far as "integrated the northbridge" I'll answer your question with another question - what's left in the northbridge to integrate?

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haticK

So I guess now would be a good time to upgrade this i7-920

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anthemmobil1

When will the new Haswell chip come out with the better IG (HD 5000 and HD 5200)? And what will it's designation be?

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dgrmouse

The three i7-****HQ chips are the only ones featuring the Iris Pro that have been announced, as far as I know. Two of them have already launched. AnandTech has a pretty comprehensive review, and I'm quite impressed.

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John Pombrio

Don't count on it. Intel expects desktop PCs to have a discrete graphics card in it, so no reason to put their higher end graphics in, throwing even more heat into the 4770K.

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gordonung

I would agree John, and I think that was part of Intel's decision not to offer the 4770R part in LGA1150. However, the company really looked like it took the enthusiast tech press' objections to that decision. It wasn't neccesarily the IGP we wanted, but the large L4 cache. I'd normally just figure it was said to get us to stop our bitching  but it was an Intel higher up they had come downstairs to hear our requests so maybe it will happen.

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dgrmouse

Next time you have a chance to chew on such a person's ear, Gordon, you should tell them to give us SRT for RAM disks!

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gordonung

SRT for RAM disks would be cool, but I'd think there'd be a problem interfacing with the RAMDisks as they are all likely different. With SRT and SATA, it's pretty standardized and Intel lays the plumbing to SATA. That can't be said of RAMdisks.

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simplyfloid

I've been building my new rig on paper for a while now and will do the build in January. I'm somewhat constrained financially but I can't resist the best. Considering that I do about as much video editing as gaming, I've been stuck thinking the 2011 board with quad-channel memory is the best route...that and a hexa core (3930k) :) Is this combination really a big deal? Or is haswell worth considering?

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Radius Prime

Do not buy a sandy bridge - E I73930k at this moment. Ivy Bridge-E is set to be released in september and will include the next generation LGA2011 processors. I understand you are impatient but waiting 3 months will garantee you a top end chip untill 2015.

The Haswell chips just released are all mid level chips meant for mobile computing. They are nerved for low power consumption. I would personally die before I let any of them get near my desktop rig.

Cheers o/

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whr4usa

socket 2011 is designed for multiple socket motherboards primarily

obviously there are solo-socket motherboards and chipsets and processors available but all of them are 'gimped'

if you can't use or/and afford the dual sockets investment you're probably better off either building an eggcellent Ivy Bridge system or an upgrades-minded Haswell; either way, consider the Xeon-branded E3-1245 V2\V3 if you want integrated Gfx or the E3-1230 if you're only going for be using an SLI\CrossFire-compatible Z-series motherboard without processor-iGfx support
with those Xeon E3 processors you'll get identical silicon as the i7-3770 [V2] or i7-4770 [V3] but will often pay as much as $50 less than its consumer counterpart (usually only $10-$20 difference if any) AND get all of the server-sided processor featureset while only losing a couple tocks off the clockspeed for turbomodes

ark.intel.com/compare/75610,75125,75124,75122,65525,65524,65719,65729,75462

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dgrmouse

Of course, these Xeon chips generally require a different chipset than everyone else will be using. The $20-50 you save by going with a Xeon instead of an i7 is going to be completely blown by the extra $70+ you have to spend to get a compatible motherboard. The cost only goes up if the motherboard you select requires ECC RAM.

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whr4usa

with respect, wrong; any chipset for the same architecture or newer AND same socket will handle any Xeon-branded chip just fine - they are not actually different chips!

i.e. an E3-1245 ("v1" sandy bridge) will work in an Ivy Bridge Z77 motherboard etc.

also although all Xeon-branded chips do SUPPORT ecc-capable main memory it is not required and only the C-series chipsets support it
newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131849

newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007629%2050001315%20600452057&IsNodeId=1&name=ASUS

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incidentflux

Brother suggested the Xeon E3-1245 as well. Comment made about the saving being blown by chipset (or BIOS) incapability are practical.

So far I've only found Asus P9D WS, which is a verified compatible board and the ASRock Z87 Extreme6 motherboard. Which a kind newegg reviewer confirmed as working on the E3-1245V3 review. I need at least one PCI legacy slot for my Audigy2 sound card.

Despite the review, I'm hesitating on the ASRock Z87 Extreme6, because of possible BIOS limitations.

How can I confirm any other compatible mother boards with regards to chipset and BIOS support?

Intel Xeon E3-1245V3 Haswell
newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116909

Asus P9D WS
newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132014

ASRock Z87 Extreme6
newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157371

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HiGHRoLLeR038

Thanks Gordon. I'll be upgrading from my i7-950 / x58 platform sometime in the next few weeks

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