Game Developers Bash Microsoft's "Wrongheaded" Windows 8 Strategy

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tomthebomb231

I really dislike how people's opinion's are totally affected by what is popular at the time. It is becoming apparent that it is popular to hate on windows 8, which is fine if it is actually all that bad, but I get the feeling that more and more people are just hating on it because it's the cool thing to do.
Vista was pretty unstable and in bad shape at release but after SP1 it was perfectly fine and basically the same thing as windows 7(besides a few nice updates to the UI). Yet people still hate on vista but love windows 7?
I'm not saying I like windows 8 (I haven't used it much at all), but it just kinda pisses me off that people already want it to fail, before it's even released, just because they are so invested in what they want to believe.

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satrain18

Steam want to be a monopoly in the digital distribution market. Plain and simple. They see the Windows Store as competition. BTW, the only thing locked are Metro apps, not standard software (and Steam does run on Win8), but that fact is lost in the bickering.

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tekknyne

I love the thought of shitty game devs like Ubisoft getting some much needed competition in the Windows space

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bpstone

Microsoft cash cow is headed to where they believe the most money can be made is. No company can reign as king in a sector forever. Another will take their place in the top spot. Who or what that is we will not completely know until it all plays out. Linux kernel has been around for several years. There are lots of spinoffs that use it called distros to choose from that were built to fit the needs of that particular user. Professional companies like Red Hat license out their software to businesses. It already has the top spot in the smartphone market with Google’s Android. Where it has lacked is the consumer desktop, or laptop if you will, world. The availability of popular games is one of the major hurdles for Linux desktop distros to increase their user base. Make no mistake to believe it is not going to grow. There are corporations pushing forward to bring it to consumers. Fragmentation you say. Linux is a kernel that is built upon. When we talk about Windows, we are referring to it as a whole and not Windows NT. It is used on far more than just personal systems. In fact, people in mass use it every day without even knowing it.

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DigitalNogi

Calm your vaginas, folks. It's all going to be okay. In a year we'll look back at the people who said Windows 8 would be a catastrophe and the worst idea ever and think, "Wow! What a bunch of f**k'n idiots."

Or I'll be eating my words here. I'm betting on the former though.

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Cregan89

The only reason these big PC game developer's are upset about Windows 8 is because the Windows Store is a direct competitor to their own game platforms.

They don't want what's happening to gaming on iOS and Android to happen to Windows, where the majority of gaming profits are made by smaller indie developers selling cheaper games. The big gaming corporations haven't been able to compete with Indie developers on iOS and Android.

These company's are all proclaiming that Windows 8 will be the death of PC gaming, when in actuality I guarantee that more PC games will be played and more profits will be made from PC games on Windows 8 than all previous Windows versions put together. I predict the first PC game developer to just accept the Windows Store and take advantage of it will have huge success.

Say what you will, but just remember this comment two years from now once Windows 8 is proclaimed the most successful PC gaming platform to date.

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warptek2010

Here's why I think you're wrong. All indicators show that gaming on the PC is on the decline. Walk into any retail electronics store and you will see shelves and shelves devoted to Playstation, Wii, PSP, X-Box. Then you see the tiny little area devoted to PC games. The so called "Games for Windows" program is a complete joke. We see major developers sometimes taking years between major, highly anticipated releases. We're a slowly dying breed but not because we lack numbers or the enthusiasm, it's an industry wide silent conspiracy to get us to cave in and switch to console gaming where they can better control the content and ultimately, better control you the consumer. This is apparently in response to piracy whether the everyday personal kind (i.e. sharing titles amongst friends) or the worldwide kind. Microsoft is obviously in on it with their Xbox platform which ironically enough, should've been the first indicator (and not Windows 8) that there is a definite conflict of interest happening there. Now they're in for a penny, in for a pound with Windows 8 and the Metro store. Regardless of whether Windows 8 games can also run on PC's is not the point, they're more aimed towards tablet computing and smart phones where they make full use of touch screens and the portability. Many of these games will probably be annoying to play on desktop PCs, no doubt.
Ask yourself this: why isn't Microsoft updating Direct X to version 12 or at least version 11b or something for this release of Windows? Now would be the perfect time don't you think? As a kind of extra incentive to upgrade? They've left it at version 11 for how many years now?

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rabidelfman

Is that why Steam is reporting record sales and profits? PC gaming is dying, yet sales keep going up. Last year, PC gaming hit record sales (http://pc.ign.com/articles/122/1220114p1.html) and it's well on its way to doing it again this year, especially with games like Skyrim (and it's many, many mods) and Guild Wars 2 leading the way. Diablo 3 was the greatest selling PC title ever... on Day 1, and has become the best selling game across all platforms (i.e. beating out the likes of console version of MW3, etc. in sales alone). There are also many PC-exclusive titles coming out this year that clearly resembles a dying market. Clearly.

PC gaming is far from dead, and is making a come back like you wouldn't believe. This is actually in thanks to hardware being sported by next generation consoles, which will bring them up to par with a good mid-range gaming PC, and thus help revitalize the PC gaming market even further. It's what the PSX did, it's what the PS2 did, it's what the Xbox did and it's what the Xbox 360 did. They all made PC games better at the same time.

Also, to further poke holes in your commentary - Windows 8 ships with DirectX 11.1. So there's your "DirectX 11b." Also, why would they even ship it with DirectX 12? Games don't even utilize DirectX 11 as most are made for 9 or 10... and it's mostly 9.

So yes, in the words of the other poster here...

"LOL."

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maxeeemum

LOL!

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maxeeemum

These are all interesting comments and you have the right to your opinions. You are all advanced Linux and Windows users. There is no doubt that Windows 8 will move some users to Linux for a number of reasons but most will stick with XP and Win7. The average user will not be able to use W8 and I am warning all my non-tech friends to stay away from it. I am also warning my tech friends who haven't tried it.

In the end Windows 8 will outrage the average desktop/laptop user and will be Microsoft's biggest failure to date. It will be Vista times a 1000. Just my opinion!

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maxeeemum

LOL!

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TechGoudy

I think this is one reason why Gabe Newell is so upset with Windows 8:

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/23389

They want to have a store where they sell games and software? They are upset because they don't want to have to compete with Microsoft to sell games and software.

This is a nice benefit for Linux users, but not nearly as useful for Windows and MacOS users.

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DigitalNogi

Ehh... If it comes to a battle between Steam and Windows Store I'll be siding with the Windows Store. I can honestly live without Half-Life 2 and it's unresolved story. I honestly imagined Steams reaction would have been to release a metro app for it's client but guess that's not happening.

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warptek2010

They have a point. Let me use an analogy here: I'm the big phone company. I've been around many many years and I've been mostly responsible for building up the infrastructure (the telephone lines, capacity etc...). Now here comes TechGoudy. You want to start an ISP business where your customers dial in to your servers and use your ISP service to surf the web, get their email etc... Now I'm catching on to this internet thing. Hey, I want in on that action so here's the deal: you say you want to upgrade your lines to T3? Sure thing, we'll give you that capacity the next tuesday of September. Meanwhile, I'm going to steal all your customers away with this super sweet deal I can afford but you couldn't possibly afford in a 1000 years. Starting to get the picture of a big giant corporation crushing the crap out of the little guy now?

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davelray

Your analogy doesn't work. For it to work, Microsoft would have to have the capacity to prevent Steam from being loaded onto Windows 8. They don't. Steam works just fine under Windows 8.

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DigitalNogi

I agree. I'm running Steam on Windows 8 as we type. How much longer? Perhaps not much. As I stated elsewhere, if it becomes a choice between Steam on Linux and the Windows Store on Windows 8, I'm going with the Windows Store.

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davelray

I have serious doubt as to that ever happening, despite the conjecture being taken as fact by others without any proof whatsoever. Far too many software titles out there for Windows already for them to try to instantly wall it up around the Windows Store. Maybe overtime perhaps. I venture to say that Microsoft would let it start flowing that way via people's habits first. Maybe by promoting the Windows Store as a safer alternative to purchasing digital software elsewhere. But to do it instantly would cause a host of retailers online and offline to cry foul.

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xRadeon

So all this complaints are about apps for the Metro UI right? If so all these game manufactures are gay because you can still normally install software the old way. So I don't know what all the fuss is about.

You can get to the your desktop and install stuff you download. I have no clue how Microsoft would manage installs for EVERYTHING EVERYONE makes. It would only have to be for Metro UI apps.

I run Release Preview right now and I can play all the games I want. And I actually like Windows 8. I think this will be like when Facebook changes the layout and everyone cries for like a month and then they totally forget what the old look was. Haha.

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DigitalNogi

Yeah! It's totally easy to run older applications in Windows 8 AND you get access to another environment on top of that. Maybe I want to play Rogue Squadron? Or perhaps Angry Birds? It's all still on the SAME COMPUTER! :D

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UrbanSmooth

Shame on all of you Microsoft reps posting here, trying to make Windows 8 look good. Here's some news for you: It doesn't.

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Happy

+1

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maxeeemum

+1

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Erris

If it ever comes to me not being able to play games in Windows, because of lack of games or high price, then I wouldn't even need the OS.
I can do my browsing and streaming just as well on Linux. Come to that, I don't even need a PC for browsing. Any tablet will do just fine.
What would suck is that console gaming is just not my cup of tea.

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axiomatic

Lot of people in here don;t get it. This is not a Metro UI issue. I agree with all of you, the metro UI is a change but thats fine with me.

This Microsoft Store wrapper being proposed here is a scary thing for game companies to have to adjust to. It will be costly and who knows if certain games will be denied use of the store or not. Too many uncertainties.

If I were a game developer I would be worried about this one too.

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davelray

This would be a problem, if it weren't for the fact there are so many other avenues for a game developer to take advantage of. Only Metro apps supposedly have to go through the Windows Store. Now if your fear is what might come next, that MS will completely wall up Windows around the Store and block any software from being installed any other way, well could they? Yes. Would they? Highly doubt it. Too many retailers out there would raise a huge stink and then they'd get the smack down from the Justice Department.

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ApathyCurve

"Hall fears the day when 'all Windows apps may have to be certified by Microsoft before they can be released and installed on users' computers. That just fills me with dread.'"

Why? I look forward to it. Because on that day, Microsoft will finally lose their stranglehold on the home computing market.

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Happy

Yeah. If it means linux takes over as the primary OS used by most people then I'm all for such foolishly draconian measures by Microsoft. But if Microsoft maintains its dominance despite locking down the freedom of users, then I do fear that possibility. It's quite terrifying. Anyone who has read George Orwell's "1984" knows what is coming when government and industry have total control over information.

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super_legit

Seriously, it's like people want Windows 8 to be another another Vista. If you would like to encourage people who don't know any better to go buy a Mac, then by all means keep shit-talking Windows 8. You're practically doing Apple's marketing for them.

But if you don't want to be a sheep who blindly repeats other's opinions maybe you should actually try Windows 8 for more than 20 minutes before you start bitching about it.

Microsoft is focusing on design in way they've never done before, ever. For once they've created a bold and innovative UI. Has anyone ever said that any Microsoft product, ever? I'm a professional mobile developer on all three platforms. Windows Phone makes the glossy/gradient skueomorphic iOS UI look cheesy, old and stale. Red tiles on a black background is fucking l33t. That's real hacker shit: ditching cheesy gloss and chrome and putting the emphasis on the information. Please stop spreading FOD about a product you have not actually used.

I've been running Windows 8 on my 6-screen home setup for 4 or 5 months now. If you took time to actually try it out, you'd be really impressed with how much better it is for power users. Better multiscreen support with the taskbar on every screen. Tons of new keyboard shortcuts. Noticeably faster than Windows 7 on the same hardware. I'm running a i7 2600K overclocked to 4.5 GHz which is already fast under Windows 7. In Windows 8, it SCREAMS. I have a $5000 Mac Pro at work and my $2000 self-built Windows 8 PC absolutely MURDERS it in terms of performance. Sub 10-second boot times. Way smaller memory footprint. Built-in ability to mount disk image files. Toned down gloss and transparency on the desktop UI (e.g. window chrome) looks better and increases performance.

Is Windows 8 a usability nightmare? Yes, if you use it for three minutes and then jump to conclusions. When Apple arbitrary switched the mouse scroll wheel direction in Lion I'm sure you could have made some great YouTube videos showing your grandpa getting confused when he can't scroll a web page. I'm not saying it was a good decision, but if a "sky is falling" Mac user can unlearn MUSCLE MEMORY, why can't a PC user learn to tap the Windows button on their keyboard or click the lower left corner?

When someone who's technically challenged can't figure out how to do something, what do they usually do? Ask someone how to do it. "Click the lower left corner of the screen." Cool, problem solved, forever.

No one makes you use Metro, and at first I never used it. I went days without it, which basically meant Windows 8 was just a polished, performance-tweaked version of Windows 7.

Lately however I've really grown to like it -- I keep the start screen up in one of my secondary monitors so I can keep an eye on notifications. It works great with a keyboard and mouse, especially if you are capable of learning a new keyboard shortcut or two (you guys can do that, right?). The apps included are great. The new mail app is hands-down my favorite mail app ever. Built-in PDF reader, calendar, People hub, app store. I don't know if you guys have ever used a smartphone, but being able to download apps in a couple of clicks is awesome. I found a phenomenal Twitter client called Tweetro on the Store. And I've even started using IE 10 Metro every once in a while. It sounds unbelievable, but it actually seems faster than Chrome. And the right click to show/hide Tabs and the address bar is really sick.

Is Metro "bolted-on" to Windows because it has a different UI style? Web pages don't match Windows UI style either. Do you feel like they're "bolted-on" to your PC? Or does that not make any sense, because you're not an idiot and are actually capable of using different UI styles without your head exploding?

It comes down to this: if you're the type of person who would rather prefer a simple, clean, minimalist high-performance UI, you'll love Metro. If you prefer a OS where the calendar app has fake leather, stitching, and torn paper as part of the UI, then maybe you should go pick up a Mac.

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davelray

Thank you for this, this is a fantastic post.

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Strhopper

You contradict your self multiple times. You started that it's clean and intuitive then finish the rant saying learn some keyboard short cuts...um that's not simple or intuitive.

My wife loves it, it's her go to os on her laptop. Personally to me I like 7 much better.
Don't worry people won't flock to Mac....Windows 7 will just become the new xp

But this does point to Windows becoming more closed and that's scary. Developers are right to voice their concern and that's the whole point of this article

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super_legit

I don't think I called Windows 8 intuitive. There's definitely a learning curve. I'm just saying it's not a very big one.

But I do think it's clean. Not just Metro but toning down the ridiculous amount of gradients/transparency/glossiness from the Vista/Aero days is nice.

It does totally suck that RT is closed, but I don't think it's going to happen on the regular version anytime soon... if it did, maybe we'd see big companies like Adobe release Linux versions of their apps.

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And3rs0nTX

of course your $2000 pc beat your $5000 mac pro, those things are absolute pieces of garbage.

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maxeeemum

Looks like "Cregan89" has a new user name, super_legit.

The user name was created today (less than 6 hours ago).

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maxeeemum

I find that hard to believe. You express similar long winded opinions and admit to being a developer. And actually Win8 is worse than ME.

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commandrew

I made an account just to comment and tell you how much I agree with you, super legit. I too am running a i7-2700k at 4.8 ghz and will be upgrading to Windows 8 if for no other reason then to improve the boot times from my already lightning fast SSD. Who knows, maybe only true power users like us see the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Erris

I've tried Win8 for 3 months and I still don't like it.

The metro part is just annoying, the ribbons not he side are making me access the same things with more clicks than before, and the new UI is not integrated with the rest of the OS at all.

It's a mess.

The only things I like is the new copy/move window and the taskbar. And even there MS f-ed up. A simple free program like SuperCopier is better than the Win8 crack at it, and the Task manager is missing some basic info like Wi-Fi connection speed, even though.

These are just 2 quick examples off the top of my head.

Also no widgets n Win8? Really? How stupid is that?

I still have Win8 installed on my laptop, but I am definitely not going to buy it to replace the main OS on any computer of mine.

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super_legit

yeah I agree on the widget issue, I gotten pretty attached to the Core Temp widget specifically

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jgottberg

Well said, couldn't agree more.

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don2041

I will 2nd 3rd & 4th that

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zaphodbeeblebrox 42

wow the bitch fights are commencing on this whole win 8 thing. what ev. im rolling with win 7 until i get out of college and can afford more than ramen noodles -_-

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Penterax

1) Win 7 usage has passed Win XP usage.

2) PC gaming has been increasing, not decreasing - and there are many games that are PC only which apparently console gamers are totally unaware of. Anyone heard of Diablo 3? Sales of over 10 million copies of a PC-only game doesn't count for anything?

3) Even companies that thought in terms of console-only in the past are building their games to be released on the PC now - in full PC glory, not just as ports. Borderlands 2, which will be released on Sept. 18 in the U.S. is a great example.

4) John P has it right; Win 8 isn't any less game friendly than any other version of Windows. Every game I've installed on it runs great - including World of Warcraft, so that Blizzard guy is already proven wrong.

I can't help but think these people have some shady deals going down, and what these people are really complaining about is that if you use Win 8, then Valve, Blizzard, and others can't spy on you through your games like they have been able to up to now. Valve has always been a data-collection service, and Blizzard has proven what they really want is to hook you up to their social network. Blizzard and Valve both want to be the Facebooks of games.

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Insurgence

3) Gearbox software has been PC heavy, 2K games might not be, but Gearbox is the Dev not 2K.

4) The blizzard guy did not say specifically what he thought of Windows 8, he just said that it was “not awesome for Blizzard either”.

The Articles are a bit misleading as they talk about possible reasons, but they do not actually state why the developers think this way (I am refering to both Blizzard and Gabe). Brad Wardell actually targeted a the area of usability, which does have some foundation (although by MS locking the "Formerly called Metro" interface as the default, requiring you to switch to desktop should help the schiztophrenia a little.

This Article itself quotes Chris Delay, saying that it is the certification process that will one day happen for all Windows Apps. And we have heard a few miscellanious issues with that for Xbox, especially from Tim Schafer about patching a game costing to much for a smaller developer. Seeing as how MS is in control of Both Xbox and Windows, if they do do the certification process, they will most likely follow the current path that Xbox is on. They could revamp it, but if they feel its current iteration is good enough, they probably will not.

That being said, there are a lot of words being thrown around and I have not seen a whole lot of foundation for those words. They are currently just opinions of people who have more experience with Windows 8 and publishing games on Microsoft platforms, including exposure to doing it on unreleased platforms, than I do. So I take it with a grain of salt.

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don2041

MS should have just put an option to have your rig start to desktop or start to metro. And leave the start button that everybody loves.

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stradric

I actually think the new start menu is an improvement. #1, the button doesn't take up real-estate on the taskbar, but you can still access it all the same by mousing to the corner. #2, the menu itself uses more of the available screen real-estate when open. #3, start -> type still works the same, and the indexed search is vastly improved.

I haven't seen any specific arguments to why the new start menu sucks. It mostly seems like people are complaining because they don't like change, which is silly.

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Scatter

It's silly that some people don't like change?

A lot of the changes that I see seem to be changes for the sake of making changes and not changes that really add new functionality that I appreciate or makes my life easier. All they really do is disrupt my work and force me to learn an unnecessary new system.

I have no problem with the people who like these changes but there's really no excuse to not include a classic mode that looked like Windows 7.

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Ghostryderflyby

Here here! Forcing people to only use a phone inspired modified touch screen interface in lieu of an easy to use, 30 year established, well functioning UI, is a terrible decision. I think MS is going to find this out the hard way when Win 8 flops harder than that German diver in the summer Olympics!

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strykyr

Aww quit whining. What difference does it make if it has "metro" or not for gamers? It's gonna play ur games. More than likely quite well. And you can put your game shortcuts in the metro interface. You don't like the metro interface, don't get Win8. Quit bitchin about what you don't have any control over. You don't like it, I'm sure there are some job apps available at M$. Go change it. Do I like metro? absolutely not on my PC. But as a tech support pro, I will have to buy it and learn it to fix it. Will I keep i t on my main system? Probably not. But I don't care about it enuff to completely hate on it like I do crApple products. And as long as windows plays my games that will be my OS of choice. Switch to linux? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...you fuckers are funny.

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Xenite

Support pro? I doubt you graduated high school.

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Hey.That_Dude

You, a Tech Support Pro? Don't make me laugh. The ignorance of your statement is astounding. If you're a tech support pro then you've obviously been over-rated by someone. Professionals specialize in one or two OS generally based on UNIX or Linux. Having met and talked with a few I can tell you that you are NOT professional by any means. Those people get paid well into the $100k range and have worked with a company for 20+ years. They know the inside and outside of the OS, often because they wrote some of it. When they retire, they do freelance work for the company that they retired from and make EVEN MORE MONEY.
Sure, you might know windows pretty well. But since you'll never look at the code you'll never be a professional.

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MarioJP

The complain saga continues. first it was Acer complaining to MS about the WinRT Surface. Now this. Man this really does sucks.

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