Feds to Launch Antitrust Investigation of Apple

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DJSPIN80

Not sure how. Apple's not telling developers what they can/cannot program, just what tools they're using.  As for those saying that Apple should support Flash; Flash is a resource hog.  Flash takes up a lot of power; be it on OS X or Windows ( I use Windows 7 and OS X).  I'm totally supporting Apple's decision to ban Flash because HTML5 proposes a much more robust specification (not to mention robust protocol to boot).  HTML5 was designed for rich internet applications, even browser developers are adopting a draft spec.  Also, on a mobile platform, battery life is something that's important.  Flash has a tendency to suck up battery life.  I wouldn't want to decrease battery life just because I was watching a video.  

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persondude

  To that I say... Okay, assume Apple impliments HTML5 on everything that it touches. Flash, while yes it may or may not suck up a bit of resources, it's a de facto standard that has been chosen by the masses, not implimented by law by some mega corporation. Plus Apple has yet to prove how detrimental it may be on their phones because they're so closed minded about it that they won't even try. Besides on a full PC, you can't really tell the effects that Flash is having on your system unless you're running a stupid amount of it in the first place, and by then, any system would be slowed down no matter what you were doing. The average user doesn't see the effect, so they don't care.

 As for the programming tools, they're just acting like some 6 year old kid throwing a tantrum because they want to have it their way and don't want to be more open to outside ideas. I feel that the following will be an accurate representation of the future business practices of Apple

 Third Party Vendor: "Hey Steve, we'd like to offer this product on your systems."

 Steve: "Did you use Apple based programming tools?"

 TPV: "Well no, but we've tested it on apple systems and it-"

 Steve "LALALALALALALALALALAL-ICAN'THEARYOU! LALALALA! That'll show them."

___________<("<)  <(" )^  ^( ")>  (>")>__________

I respect your opinion, however wrong it may be.

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Shadai

um... i'm sorry, i have to comment when i see ignorance and blind fanboyism.  I see your arguement, but the part about Apple not telling developers what they can and cannot program is completely false.  Did you forget the Crapple store?  You know, the app approval process?  That thing that Apple does that says what you can and will program if you want to put your app here in our super awesome magical store?  No?  Okay, just checking.

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Mr_Histamine

Apple has been trying to achieve the same level of dominance as Adobe; and for some reason, they think they're in a position where they can successfully bring that dominance to an end.

I mean - c'mon Apple, just enable Flash on your equipment.  You won't be the ones to slay the dragon (most likely it will be the universe of Google and their switch to HTML5), and if you keep messin' around, you'll end up as their fecal matter.

________________________________________________________________________________

Please deposit your pride, life, and other garbage in the receptacles at the back of the theater before you leave. Thanks!

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bskoreyko

I think I speak for a lot of people who follow both PC and MAC/Apple... its
about FREAKING TIME!!!
If you have used Microsoft (Windows), OSX
(Apple/MAC) or Linux (Red Hat, Debian or what ever flavor you choose) you will have a good understanding of the computer world
and know that this is a big deal... FAIR PLAY FOR ALL COMPANIES SHOULD BE
MANDITORY.

Months ago Microsoft was forced to add an option for the EU users of the
world which allowed them to pick which web browser they wanted installed, the
same should be implemented for MAC/Apple as well.

Mac/Apple has been forcing people to use their products and only their
products for years... for example: if I want to buy music on iTunes I have to
then buy a iPod/iTouch or iPhone to listen to it when I am not on my computer.
If I then want to listen to it in my car I have to buy an after market deck,
thankfully car manufactures are smartening up and allowing auxiliary devices
via USB. Last but not least if I have a receiver for my home theater I have to
buy a special dock (Harmon Kardon has a dock called the Bridge)... I love the
idea behind it all but it’s not fair when a user has to buy ONLY the Apple
product... I should be able to use the purchases where I want and how I want.

Everyone at some point goes through the phase of downloading music, but as you
grow up it becomes easier to pay for things and I think most people grow out
of the illegal downloading phase.

Anyway that is my rant on this matter.

Brendan Skoreyko
http://www.yourtechies.ca
http://www.yourhostingpro.ca
http://www.sdmsite.com

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TechJunkie

+1

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ubuntufan

I respect Apples stance being in the computer support field. If you want open there is always Android or Linux. Otherwise respect the standards of the manufacturer. Apple is not stopping people from developing applications they just want to say how. This is a political game that Adobe has gotten into with Apple. Do not be blind this is a corporate thing and not for the people.

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ajax344

Its so hilarous because microsoft regularly gets sued for monopoly while they arn't making any ill-legit deals they just happen to be the best, most efficiant, cheapest and most versitile way for almsot every buisness to run. Apple could charge about 50% less on their stuff and compete with microsoft price wise, also, its not microsofts fault  that dell buys their OS and sells bulk deals to buisnesses and schools. Thats the reasoan MSFT has a majority of the market, because their cheaper and better or at least just as good as 500$ more on an equivlant mac.

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Neufeldt2002

About time

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

Apple IS a VIRUS

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Cache

This will ultimately go nowhere because at some level Apple will insist that they have such a tiny market share, they are doing what they need to do to compete.  Ultimately this is going to go before a judge whose only exposure to electronics is flipping the light switch off in his office at the end of the day.

 

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LatiosXT

Apple - " We don't want Flash because we want open standards, "

 

Right.

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Evil Don

I think the is investigation is warranted. If GM made everyone buy GM gas, GM tires, GM stereo equipment, ect... and ran all of the places that made and distributed these things that could be a problem. More than that, if GM sued anyone that put an Chevy motor in a Ford-- I don't thing people would stand for it but it's okay in the software world (See Apple Psystar lawsuit) I think that's rather silly. I think Apple is creating a completely closed ecosystem which will stifle competition and end up being bad for the customer.

 Does anyone remember Ma Bell? A monopoly is not free commerce. Sure others could make phones but they could not connect them any anything at all.

 An investigation is not a sanction or a fine. It's an investigation. I am interested to see what comes of this.

 @ someone87

I hail you as a troll of the greatest degree. "I can tell you the government has never, ever, in the history of man kind, made a better decision for customers than greedy privately owned companies who are in existence to make money." Tell that to the people of Hinkley, California or Cameron, Missouri and ask the EPA what they think about dumping toxic waste into peoples food and water supply. 

 

 

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Jims45wow

I'm pretty sure that guy was a plant trying to make free marketers look bad.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that:

  1) People should be able to put any app on their hardware that they want.

  2) Developers should be able to create what and how they want, but since some applications will inhibit the devices ability to function, then:

  3) Apple or carrier may drop warranty or support for altered
device/software.

  4) Apple or carrier should not be able to sabbatoge said device or software.

 Fair?

Jim

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Caboose

 For your points, I agree completely.

I'm with Rogers and have an HTC Dream (G1) and HTC Magic+. If i want to root the phones, thats my choice. Rogers, HTC and Google won't stop me (although Rogers tries). If I root my phone, and it bricks or breaks and is a software failure, then I'm SOL. I own the hardware (I bought the phones outright), so I'm free to do with them what I want. Apple seems to think that you are just leasing the hardware. Even if you pay full price (and as we've seen breakdown price reports, well above the manufacture cost), Apple still wants to retain full ownership of everything. Even your first born!

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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Jims45wow

I'm with ya.

Jim

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cynical

Release the Hounds!

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Jims45wow

Their Branded Hardware, their choice of warranty. They should make sure users are aware it, but should not be legally able to sabatoge hacks that don't directly harm them.

Let them try a closed market, and let a more open market compete. Let developers choose on their own. They may have wishes to enter closed market, but not a God-given right. They will, like everyone in all things, need to negotiate and choose.

Attempts to corner aspects of competing brands of x86 markets can be viewed differently. MS does not own rights to the hardware developement. Apple does. IMO, MS should NOT be able to stick-it-to developers who base programs on the machine, not the OS.

I do not, and never have, (knowingly) owned any Apple products. Their model doesn't suit me. I see no time in the future when I will, but it's their thing, not mine. Let the stock holders decide. :0) 

 

Jim

 So not WoW that I didn't consider the explative.How's the spam-blocker doing?

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arch20002013

 Well It is about time.  Sound like the case of United States v. Apple may be down the road like United States v. Microsoft (May 18th, 1998).  I must say it is about time.  The fact that once you buy Apple you are locked into it is the exact reason I do not buy Apple products.  I want to be able to build my own computer and if a component goes out, be able to replace it for a reasonable cost.  I do not want  to have to pay 200 for "special" apple memory when the pc version costs half or less.  I hope they do take this further and slap Jobs with a fine.   Microsoft got away with it for a while but not anymore.  Look at the European Union, they brought a suit againts them about Microsoft not giving customers an option of which internet browser to install and slapped a 613 million dollar fine for it.  Its Apple's turn now!

 

 

 

HAF 922

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550

TWIN2X4096-8500C5DGCorsair hx1000w2x150GB Velociraptors RAID 0 BFG GTX 280 OCX</

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dj-anon

Finally

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monkeykid753

I don't care if the government does much (but the will hopefully fine them for a load of cash, then  give it all to me), but this just says THE GOVERNMENT HATES APPLE!!! 

 

DISAGREE AND PERISH!!!! 

 

My exploding trick: Any iPad/Phone/Mac haters get a lot of silly putty, then clog up the speakers on iPad and iPhone or vents (if they exist) on an iMac and wait for a few minutes... then....

BIG BOOM!!!! 

 

The Creator of that

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Vegan

My unbiased opinion is that fair's fair. Apple has clearly strongarmed way harder than Microsoft ever has.

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Keith E. Whisman

This is a monopolistic practice that Apple is engaged in and should be made to stop. So I have no problem with this. Where was the great uproar when Microsoft or Intel were being targeted like this? I think there is a good case against Apple and It's about time. 

Those that attack other peoples opinions are just worthless assholes. Like the guy in here that loves to attack others and try to make them look stupid. I say fuck you. If you take what I say and try to make me look stupid you should get your ass kicked. It's one thing to point out an obvious flaw it's quite another to just start calling names and picking on them. Unless it's obvious that it's lighthearted. 

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Nailer669

Amen!  Anytime a company does anti-competitive practices, the government gets involved.  It has been that way for the past 100 years (or more - not sure, but know at least the past 100 years).  If you complain about the US government, go to Europe.  At least the US didn't force Microsoft to strip out Media Player and IE8 and put a ballot box in Windows 7!

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Caboose

 Here here!

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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someone87

Every one of your comments so far are misguided and stupid.

The government is over stepping their bounds once again. They should not get involved in private business and that's that.

Most of you apple haters out there would love to see apple go out of business right? You all think Apple is shooting themselves in the foot and pissing off customers by pulling apps once downloaded, and not allowing apps certain in the store right? Then why not let them continue to kill their own business with their own stupid actions? That's the beauty of a free capitalistic (less and less everyday) economy. If you don't like the product don't buy it. Plus, if your an idiot, you go out of business.

BTW, here is a news flash for everyone out there, if you don't like Apple, don't buy their products. If they are as bad as you all claim, then let the idiots out there suffer with the wrath of Apple, and after everyone wises up, Apple will be no more.

So now your all hoping the government will come swooping in, fine Apple like a billion dollars, and force them to allow Adobe apps right? How would that help your apple hatred? It would just make their phone that much more flexible and probably grow their market share. We should be asking the government to stay away, and let Apple crumble from the inside out!

Fun fact for all you government educated kids with mush for brains. The #1 ketchup brand in the US, Canada and UK is Heinz ketchup. However, I doubt any of you complain about their "monopoly" and only being offered their product in restraints, or at the local store. Why is that? Because they have a good product at a fair price, so competition has stayed away. http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/H.J._Heinz_Company_(HNZ) However, if they start mixing shit into their ketchup, and charge 100$ a gallon for the stuff, guess what ketchup I am going to buy next time I am out shopping? SOMETHING ELSE!

Here is my point, it sounds like 99% of all MPC readers hate Apple and everything about them. So let them continue to piss you, and the rest of the world off until they have no more customers, and declare bankruptcy. Then you can all rejoice and go back to arguing about AMD and Intel.

Any time the government gets involved in private business it's never pretty, or good. Any force upon the free market that's unnatural (driven by something other than profits or customers) hurts everyone involved.

As far as the Lala comment, there are over 1000 business bought and sold each day for business reasons. If it was financially profitable for apple to buy Lala, and close it down (for whatever reason) it's their right as a company operating in the still somewhat free market to do so.

Being a business owner myself, and dealing with this crap day to day, I can tell you the government has never, ever, in the history of man kind, made a better decision for customers than greedy privately owned companies who are in existence to make money. Yes I really did say that. Greed is good. Lets say AMD is "greedy" and wants more market share and make more money. So they make a kick ass CPU, pressure HP, Dell, Asus, and others to only use AMD CPU's, and undercut Intel, so AMD makes a boat load of money. Who wins? US! The consumer. Lets say Intel sues AMD for anti-trust suites, who wins? Nobody! The government takes millions from AMD, and they are strapped for $$$ and no longer make use kick-ass CPU's. Plus because they don't have a "monopoly" it costs more per CPU because the QTY's are down. You see, the government is an unnatural weight on the market, that screws everything up.

So you see, assuming not everyone one of you have ADD, and actually read my rant, the government sucks, and should stay 100% out of private business.

-Someone who has a brain and understand how business works.

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Cy-Kill

The thing is, you just lost all credibility when you started with the insults.  In regard to your last sentence, if you had a brain, then you wouldn't be insulting everyone on MPC!

Cy-Kill

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Jims45wow

From my comment above, you can see that I'm a free market guy. I'm not really responding to your flaming, just doing some apologetics for free-market/limited-government types.

There are 2 aspects of a free market that I know of. Free from unwise/unfair government intrusion, and free from corrupt/unlawful/unfair business practices. "Fairness" cannot be accomlished by keeping all the trees "...equal by hatchet, axe and saw" (Rush), but by sunlight and wind.

Governance is a necessary evil of chainsaws which thinks it can command the sun and wind. Governments pick winners and losers. In the process they climb into bed with the the most appealing, leading them on and keeping as many suitors as possible sucking-up to them. Often they demonize those whom they are closest to, while continuing to rely on the arrangements made in back rooms with those same "bad guys".

Courts should be expected to operate with different motives than legislators, but "legislating from the bench" has become common practice, and the courts are often influenced (or determined) by issues not directly involving the case at hand, or common sense. (i.e. $2 million for a victim of clumsiness with their own hot coffee.) Then, after a notable case, legislators often pass bills related to the case (this supposedly will make things better). The legislation has the effect of inviting or forcing more parties into becomming suitors for them.

Let's use scalpels when absolutely necessary, and reserve the chansaws-with-delusions-of-godhood for wars and zombies.

Which brings me back to the flaming. Don't treat people like zombies. If they were zombies, they wouldn't understand your tauntings. Since they are not, simply TRY to be polite and thoughtful. The effort will go a long way.

Jim

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DogPatch1149

Before I comment on the article itself, a few points about you.

First, I question anyone who says they have a brain, and yet can't spell simple words like "overstepping" (yes, it's one word, not two) or "mankind" (also one word, not two).  If you're too lazy to use a proper spelling checker or a dictionary, why should I take what you say seriously?

Second, I get a laugh out of trolls like you who taunt other people because their opinion or view doesn't happen to match your own.  Hasn't anyone ever taught you that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?  I'll bet your business isn't customer-service oriented in any way, shape, or form...I sure as hell wouldn't buy from you, at any price, because your attitude is one of supreme arrogance. Kind of like Steve Jobs, as a matter of fact...hmmm...might you be him?

Third, zero government involvement in private business in the past would have meant that seat belts would be optional items, Vioxx would still be on the market, and Toyota would still be selling quite a few quick-accelerating vehicles with no restraint whatsoever.  Somewhere between 0% and 100% is the level that works, and it constantly varies depending on the situation.

Finally, the disorder is properly called ADHD, not ADD.  I've had it all my life, and yet I was able to read your frothing-at-the-mouth literary drivel completely, without stopping and with full comprehension.

As for Apple being investigated - it's about time, no matter what the result turns out to be.

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GenericBob

Very good comments, especially about the importance of government involvement as a regulatory function. How many of us would want to eat food without the USDA regulating the food supply? You also raised a good point about the poster's arrogant approach. There's no reason for a lack of decorum.

Speaking of food, by the way, the poster's ketchup argument doesn't really apply. In monopolistic terms, comparing Apple and Heinz is comparing apples and, well, tomatoes. Apple sets overly restrictive guidelines on what applications its hardware runs, to the point of being anticompetitive. For the analogy to be apt, Heinz would have to limit who can grow tomatoes and other products that go in its product or force growers not to sell to other ketchup vendors. Antitrust doesn't simply mean "market leader." It means "market leader because of manipulation." If those things were happening at Heinz, you can bet the government step in to institute fairness. (By the way, Hunt's ketchup is produced by Con-Agra, which isn't exactly a company hurting for money.)

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Modred189

So what you are saying is that the government should not regulate industries in order to foster competition, fair play and maintain markets?

 

You mean like they did with the home-loan and insureties-backed loan markets? 

Yea, good Idea. 

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someone87

The government caused the housing crash by forcing banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford houses.

When banks are required to approve loans to people who don't have enough $$$ to barely enough otherwise considered "high risk" and the economy takes a slight dip, the banks are left with tens of thousands of homes that the people can't make payments on.

Still think it's a good idea? 

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TechJunkie

Now that comment I agree with, but you can thank the liberal dems for that. But the housing market is a much different beast than regulating anti-competitive practices. Without regulations of some sort, cablevision would cost 500 bucks a month, elec. would be 1000 bucks a month, and gas would be 1500 a month all because they have a no regulations set for other companies to survive. I agree that the Gov't does need to stay out of most private business but if those private businesses get involved in illegal activities set forth by the law, they should be nailed to the wall....like apple.

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Modred189

Hate to break it to ya, but the Banks wrote those loans all by themselves. It was the LACK of regulation that allowed the banks to write those high-risk loans in the first place, THEN they could put them into the sub-prime market as a security to be sold. THEN because they weren't regulated, they essentially bet against these crappy products so that when they failed, and they knew they would, they would make money as a result.

 

If you are going to write a wall-o-text diatribe, and then I one-line you with a damn good point, you better have more than a weak-sauce "whatever". 

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TechJunkie

I agree with the lack of regulations part, but it was the gov't that mandated for those banks to write the loans. Saying it was unfair that X group could afford a home loan but not Y group. So to try to make it fair, they made it possible for them to write these bad loans and the banks took advantage of the situation. Kind of like....X group can buy 100 bucks worth of groceries a week for thier families because they have a good job and work thier ass off but not Y group. So the gov't gives out Food Stamps to Y group to make it....fair. 

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someone87

The government was the one who forced the banks to underwrite sub-prime mortgages. Because it's not fair to the "underprivileged" who can't afford a house.

Sorry, if you can't afford a house, you should't buy a house. But the government screwed that up as well, and here we have the crash.

If you knew business, you would know that any good business owner is willing to takes risks, but not sub-prime mortgage risks. That's suicide. The only reason they did was because the government forced them to.

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Modred189

You're only half way there. They forced the banks to give low-income families a fare shot at a loan. What they did not do was force the banks into giving these people crappy variable-rate loans that were guaranteed to go way up. They did NOT force the banks into forgetting to offer standardized, fixed-rate loans that this demographic has been getting for decades with no problem. SURE the interest rate would be through the roof, but it would be fixed.

 

Ultimately, it was the de-regulation of the banking and sub-prime lending markets that  caused these loans to be possible because they were no longer watched.  No regulation = no oversight= bad things. In this case it's the opposite than  what happened with the banks. With the banks, it was hyper-competition. Here, it's no competition. In once case you get shoddy product and too low costs. On the other you get shoddy product and too high costs. Regulation balances it.

 

Welcome to the US market, a melange of socialism, capitalism and creativity. 

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YoshiHNS

I couldn't help but notice how you seem to stick out. Are you lost. If you read (not assuming you can since you can't seem to spell very well), the big banner at the top of the page says MAXIMUMPC, not MAXIMUMallowedbystevejobsPC

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Walnut

Speaking of sources, where the hell are yours? This housing debacle is no where near so cut and dry. The government didn't force banks to do anything. How would that process have worked? What the government did do is deregulate. I'm not in favor of excessive regulation, but I am in favor of legislation that protects the consumer over the bloodthirsty CEOs. There's a difference between controlling private enterprise and preventing private enterprise from making everyone else miserable. 

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TechJunkie

..........

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someone87

I am sick of this arguing, nothing is being gained. You think your still right, as do I.

However, to offer up the references you requested, here you go.

I know I know, the video is on youtube, but hey, I believe the research is solid, feel free to dig in deeper.

http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/obama-sued-citibank-under-cra-to-force-it-to-make-bad-loans/

But the point is, if people can't afford it, they shouldn't buy it. And the government forced "yes look into it" banks to give out risky loans.

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Walnut

Your reference doesn't substantiate your claims. It's a smattering of Obama quotes which are then immediately taken entirely out of context to construe a different meaning, and valid reporting on the mortgage crisis. The government deregulated financial and investment banks and the two started to interact (see Glass-Steagall act). This was very bad. The financial banks made bad loans and then sold them to investment banks. Both parties thought they could make money off of each other. In a sense, yes, the federal government encouraged this behavior by not prohibiting it, but it in no way forced banks to make the decisions they made. There is a difference between enabling a behavior and forcing said behavior onto someone/something.

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Havok

 I think somebody lost the game....

 

 

YES! This post made it through the Spam Filter!

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Zachary K.

if microsoft can get in trouble for putting their own browser on their own machine, i don't see why apple can get away with the crap they are pulling.

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someone87

The question is not if MS can get in trouble, but should MS or Apple get in trouble at all. If you don't like what they are doing, then buy something else.

-Me

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Shadai

We here at Apple just know whats best for you.  Trust me.

 

 Your Overlord and Master

Steve

 

Sent from My iPad (iPhone has no coverage)

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arch20002013

FTC:  Oh, we forgot that you rule the world.  We will drop this right now.  Have fun rulling the world.

 

 

 

HAF 922

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550

TWIN2X4096-8500C5DGCorsair hx1000w2x150GB Velociraptors RAID 0 BFG GTX 280 OCX</

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pforbing

I'm surprised this isn't the only suit they have coming.  I wonder if they've considered looking into Apple's acquisition of the music site Lala (which they turned around and are planning on shutting down in favor of itunes).  That smells like the beginning of a monopoly too.

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Morichalion

I can get any of dozens of programs to assist in web design. There are a bunch of options when developing even for xbox and ps3. You might have to get the dev kit, but anything you do between having a good idea and testing your product is your own damn business.

I can go out and buy pretty much any set of tools from any vendor to work on my car. If I knew HOW to work on my car, that is.

Apple runs the platform and the store, but taking crappy apps over good ones because they're made with "approved tools" is just a dick move. 

Yeah, I know, yet another in a long line of dick moves.

Only six months 'till I can get a different phone. 

The world was ruled by religion, and they call it "The Dark Ages"

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Caboose

 It's about damn time!

 

Doesn't look like Apple...

*puts on sunglasses*

Can worm their way out of this one!

 

YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

(sorry, it's not the greatest... I tried though)

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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gendoikari1

I guess you could say...
*sunglasses*

their apple was rotten!

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

SPAM FILTER MUST DIE

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