Europe Will Get Windows 7 without Optional IE8

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Weiberheld

The article states and I copy and paste:

 "To ensure that Microsoft is in compliance with European law, Microsoft will be releasing a separate version of Windows 7 for distribution in Europe that will not include Windows Internet Explorer," Microsoft said in a memo. "Microsoft will offer IE8 separately and free of charge and will make it easy an convenient for PC manufacturers to preinstall IE8 on Windows 7 machines in Europe if they so choose."

 

The article is talking about computer manufacturers, Not about actual consumers. The manufacturers will have the choice of what Internet Browser will be put on the machine.

As far as people buying a copy of 7 for upgrade they obviously already have a working machine so they can download the browser of their choice before the upgrade and then install it.

Pay better attention to what you read next time knuckleheads. 

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nightkiller

It seems to me you need to up your dosage of gingko biloba to enhance your memory. Both Firefox and Opera have their own problems with security, particularly Opera. Third party add-ins are a big plus in Firefox but a lot of them suffer from crappy code syndrome (http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/test-center-how-secure-firefox-282?page=0,3). So take your pick. Get a browser that is secure, provides timely updates for practical issues and integrates seamlessly into an operating system that is used by 93% of the planet, get chic with a Mac for 5% or do all of your email and browsing with the other 3 million distributions involved in a pissing match to see who can find a new location to store a library file and break the system.

I would also like to point out that Firefox did not need to go crying to the DOJ or the EU Commission to get to where it is, warts and all. Competition has been good for both IE and Firefox. Opera? As one site points out, Opera is the only browser in the lot that you have to pay for and it has an astonishing .73 percent market share. Opera was also the firm that was behind the EU Commission complaint. Seems to me that even if no browser is included in EU Windows distributions, most freetards are not going to shell out for something that takes a dog's age to patch and ain't so hot on the rendering side either.

You choose a flightless bird as a mascot and wonder why it doesn't take off?

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MeTo

"Get a browser that is secure, provides timely updates for practical issues and integrates seamlessly into an operating system"

First I think this will never happen on a Windows machine. 2nd Fire fox is closeing it on market penetration and the last time i tried Opera it was free. If you want a more secure web browser get Fire fox on linux.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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nightkiller

You're right. Opera is now free.

I defer to your evangelical fervor over the delights of Linux. I have work to do.  

You choose a flightless bird as a mascot and wonder why it doesn't take off?

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Spider-Mom

MeTos entire stupid argument is proven wrong by the fact that MS has bundled IE this hole time and it hasnet seemed to have ANY effect on the adoption of other browsers.

 

This hole thing is fking stupid.

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k11k

So many complaints, but for what? So MS put THIER browser on THIER OS. If your so stupid to not know how to unistall IE than don't complain. Its not like its super hard or you can just install another browser and leave it at that. If you hate IE that much there plenty of other browser out there. Those who complain about why its not package with other browsers, use some common sense. By packaging it together you get the problem of regular people calling MS why Firefox just crash. Its not their browser so why should they be the support for it. Its the poeple at Firefox to make it work with Windows not the other way around. I'm so tired of people crying my Window crashes. Its not that Window crash, its that program "you" installed that made Window crash. Same can be said to all the other OS out there. I have computers running every one even that worthless SUN java OS. Every tried to make a OS crash with out the extra progam you install? You can't it runs smooth, till you add a Virus protection, java, adobe, etc. I'll state this one more time .

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MeTo

Microsoft Windows All versions are full of "third party software" How do you think they get plug and play to work. They might not call it that anymore. But when you do a fresh install and everything works It's becuse third party hardware and software like Intel,AMD,ATI,nVidia,you name it and Microsoft "worked together" and came out with a common soulation. If Microsoft want's to domaniate the world they will have to pay for it. They have lost in USA courts "monopoly" EU courts "monopoly" they must be doing something Wrong.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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comptech08

not a MS fanboy but I still don't see how they had a monopoly.  All they did was succeed and get bigger.  They had no monopoly.  There are other operating systems.  For them to be a monopoly wouldnt they have to be the ONLY OS available?

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MeTo

It's not just what you do it's also how you do it. The US supreme court and the EU court both fund them guilty of monopoly. And no you don't have to be the only OS. For instance win 3.1 had no web browser people bought netscape to surf the web and they were number 1. Then microsoft came out with windows 95 and gave IE 1 for free and people quit buying netscape driveing netscape out of business. They used there 95% share of the OS market to drive netscape out of business.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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mesiah

This isn't 1995. In the days of windows 3.11 most people didn't have internet at all. Alot of those who did used ISPs like AOL that came with a browser. This is 2009. EVERYTHING has its own browser. Macs come with a browser, PCs come with a browser, even your phone has a web browser. In this day and age not including a browser is a severe disservice to the consumer. Most people buy computers these days with the sole purpose of getting online. Back when MS started including IE with windows and apple / linux had close to no market share I could see IEs bundling as anti competitive. But now it is a staple of any OS, be it windows, mac, or mobile, and asking a manufacturer to package a competitors browser is just rediculous.

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comptech08

so what if they inlcuded their own free browser into their own OS.  Paying for an internet browser was stupid anyways.  All i see here is competition and people getting mad because Microsoft is winning.

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MeTo

Actually to compete Microsoft would have to sell IE not give it away for free. When you compete you are on a level playing field. They knew they could not compete with netscape so they wiped them out using there Win 95 OS 95% percent market share.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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MvanA

So by that reasoning then Linux and Firefox should no longer be free because they aren't competing with MS on a level playing feild?  Linux is using free software to steal cheapskate users from buying MS software!

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Spider-Mom

Microsoft makes their own OS and their own browser. If ppl didnt want an OS
that comes with the worlds most used browser they could just buy Macs. Alls this does is force an S ton of ppl to have to DL it who are just going to use it any way. Its not like it matters since im sure all new versions of 7 in Europe will just have an update popup that DLs it anyway.

Why doesnt Europe get rid of notepad, Disk Defragmenter, and Windows Time to? There are programs for the computer that can tell time and have a calandar, MS is hurting real people by bundeling a calandar and clock! The picture and fax viewer is runining lives over in Europe! If it didnt come with windows ppl would be forced to priate products from a local European company! If only there were no Windows Picture and Fax Viewer! The world would be so much kinder!

 

 

Might as well have left the Soviets in power over there. Ied really like to know who these poor starving browser developers are in Europe who need to have big brother take care of MS. Lord knows there are no other browsers used here in the US cause big bad MS bundles their own!

 
Look at the world around you. Where would we be today if not for MS? How many super nerds have gotten their leggs on MS? If it was on another free distro you can bet they did it partly to spite MS and therefor still have something to owe them. I really think that at this point in time MS has done more good for the world than the idiotic EU ever could. I really dont give a damn if my power comes from the sun or baby seal oil, as long as its powering my hotrod WINDOWS based PC. Even if its not using IE.

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wk

all of this can be avoided if MS make their OS installation customizable, like many other softwares, i don't think it is difficult to give consumer option to install or not any Windows component during the intial installation procedure. that way no one can complain of monopoly etc.

if user don't want to install IE, Windows Media Player, or even Paint  then give him a choice, simple isn't it?!!

MPC is my home page

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MeTo

Finaly some body makes sense. Freedom of choice.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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LordPyro

I agree with you 100%, including your political views :)

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Balgaroo

Ok, so I'm not going to join in about whether it should be allowed or not, or how people hate the EU counsel, or how much they dislike IE and WMP, or their view on Obama and the definition of socialist.  I just want to ask one question.

How would people get onto the net after initial install.  I know that the majority of people that post here have backups of their preferred browser.  But what about the little old lady, (none computer literate people) that buy their brand new E-Machine from a local store and it has no browser on it.  How do they get online?  Will Microsoft include a basic text browser, or will they be "good enough" to the customer to include a little popup that says in order to get online u should download IE8. There's a nice loop whole for you.  Maybe they can go the highest rout that  I can see and offer a list of every browser out there with a fair description of each? Yeah, I can see that happening.

All I'm saying is that when I install an OS for Linux, Windows, or Leopard I use the default browser to get Chrome and Firefox.  (Sorry Ilike the sleekness of Chrome but I still use old faithful when I need it)

Lastly, what about updates, last I remember the only way to updated Windows was with IE, did they change something?  I would not know, some things I just do not pay attention to.   

...OK two questions. 

 

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MeTo

Microsoft could put alternative browsers along with IE on the disk and ask you what one you would like to install. And no Microsoft would not have to support it third party software support them selfs. Get over it people Microsoft is just trying to keep there monopoly. If they sell a billion copys of the OS with IE on it they know 995 millon will keep IE because it's installed with the OS. Give people a choice.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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Caboose

 Windows Vista and Windows 7 don't use IE anymore to patch, just Windows XP and lower.

 

-= I don't want to be dead, I want to be alive! Or... a cowboy! =-

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Cache

Let's consider the following monetary involvement:

EU:  Millions of dollars spent gathering data, assemblying legal action, prosecuting Microsoft

Microsoft:  Millions of dollars in defense.  Billions of dollars in penalties.

 

 

     ...all for internet browsers that are completely and totally free of charge.

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byteme

Why is it alright for Apple to provide their own browser with their own OS
but not Microsoft? I find that Apple is more monopolistic than Microsoft.
Apple controls the hardware and software. Don’t see the EU complaining about
that.

I also think Opera should just shut up. The browser is at the bottom of
the browser pile and has contributed to a lot of its own downfall. Opera is like a
little spoil brat that doesn't think he got enough play time in a game,
and wants mommy / daddy to complain to the coach. Funny Firefox is an alternative
browser and has had no problem gaining popularity in the browser wars. Opera,
maybe you might want to look in your own back yard for what ails ya.

Sound like the EU needs to get a clue and a little computer savvy. Soon every
EU country will have to be doing the goose step or be fined. Who knows, with
the U.S. President and the Leftist in Congress, we too may become the United
Socialist of America or Obomination. Can’t wait till the 4 years is up, or soon
I may be paying for every poorly run company, greedy union, deadbeat, and illegal
in this country.

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bigkahuna

let me guess, rushlimbagh is your God, women's rights is... o well, what's the point

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Vegan

You had me until you started ranting about our so-far awesome President.

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nekollx

 it's obvious he voted for Bush :P

 

I'm on the fence myself...

 

With Oboma be a Bush or a Clinton (ie

  • Smallest federal civilian workforce in 40 years
  • Lowest federal spending as a share of the economy since 1966
  • Slowest per capita growth of government spending since the 1950s
  • http://www.clintonpresidentialcenter.org/the-administration/administration-highlights

------------------------------
Coming soon to Lulu.com --Tokusatsu Heroes--
Five teenagers, one alien ghost, a robot, and the fate of the world.

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byteme

But, the other choice was Al Bore, another socialist, and a wacko.

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Seana7a7

Gets your facts right the EU has very little power this is about all they can do.

 

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mesiah

EU nations had no power before. that is why they formed the EU in the first place, just so they could feel relevant in the world. Now they are trying to flex their muscles and show that they can sit at the big kids table. They know companies like intel and microsoft aren't going to pull out of the EU, it would bankrupt them. So they think they can make those companies do whatever they please. Wether or not you like microsoft, you have to love their choice of sticking it to the EU in this matter. The EU forced them into a corner, and when they refused to schedule a hearing that microsoft could actually make, this was the responce. All this legislation isn't going to help consumers at all. Its going to cause choices like this, and severe price increases to cover for losses from greedy governments with their hands in the cookie jar.

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comptech08

no you get your facts right.  EU has all the power that they want, they can do what they please, and its really scary on how stupid it is.

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rseding91

"[IE related] security holes"

What security holes? do you have a list? or do you just like to  bash IE?

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MeTo

Microsoft has a list they a constantly doing security updates trying to fix IE. 

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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I Jedi

I'm sorry, how does anti-trust/competitive fuck Microsoft in this case? The browser was developed by Microsoft and the operating system is clearly developed also by Microsoft. So, how can the EU threaten MS for bunding their own software in their own OS???? I fucking hate the EU council. I think Microsoft should pull out of the EU market. Even if it hurts them, at least they won't be slammed with hefty fines by an intolerant EU.

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praetor_alpha

If MS pulled out of the EU, people would pirate Windows to hell and back. Remember, they have a bay of pirates in Sweden? And so far as I know, MS don't want more people pirating windows.

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MeTo

People swear when they can't think of something an educated person would say so they just blert out swear words.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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I Jedi

Actually, I only managed to write out one cuss word in that entire rant of mine. The European Union makes very little sense in why they are trying to beat down Microsoft for bundling their own web browser with their own operating system and calling it an "anti-trust" issue. That is like saying Apple having Safari loaded onto their operating system is an anti-trust issue, but yet I do not see them getting slapped around with a similar penalty? Honestly, what does the EU have to gain by doing this to Microsoft

What I can’t seem to rap my head around is why Microsoft would still prefer to do business in Europe if they’re going to continue to get slapped with penalty after penalty? Perhaps they realize that their gain is greater than the loss of $790 million dollars? Then again, what about that other hefty fine that EU gave Microsoft not too long ago, too? I believe it hit the billion plus mark.

@ praetor_alpha
Remember that Microsoft intends to disable features on non-licensed Win7 operating system, as they stated a few weeks back.

@ MeTo
Why should Microsoft be forced to use a different web browser, or get rid of their own on the operating system that they made? Why?

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MeTo

There was a time that Microsoft windows "DID" not have a web broswer. You had to pay for Netscape and Netscape ruled #1 so microsoft came out with IE for free and killed netscape.

(by the way you said the "BIG" nasty Twice)

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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Cache

Well there's still plenty of money to be made in Europe--the politics of lowest intelligence aside.  I could see Microsoft allowing alternative browser selection on their OS, but it would have a much less convenient twist than the EU might like.  In simple terms, this means page after page of forced EULA freeing MS from any possible legal repercussion as well as digital signing to ensure that the user actually agrees to what they are installing.

Unnecessary?  Certainly.  It would be perfectly legal for them to do, of course, and that 2-minute savings of not downloading the OS yourself could cost you 20 minutes of server authentication that what you selected to do would be verified so that MS would be assured of legal safety.  All to make the EU happy that a user--and MS--obtained exactly the services the customer selected of their own free will.

Except that in this case, it would require an extra 20 minutes of their wretched lives.

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Cache

Nothing would make me happier than to see EU folks screaming that they have no web browser to get on the internet to download a web browser they prefer.  Seriously.  The lulz would be heard around the world.

And the best part is that the EU made it all nice and legal.  And no, MS should NOT include a 'variety of alternative browsers' because they could never guarantee beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would be fully compatible with the latest installmant of an MS operating system.  They could never guarantee a current and updated browser.  Granted, that never stopped IE6 from being shipped out God knows how many millions of times...but they are not obligated to include a browser--after all, the OS works just fine.  Let the EU figure out how to get people online.

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nekollx

 exctly my thoughts, EU demads they remove IE, but how do you get your prefered browser without a starting point?

------------------------------
Coming soon to Lulu.com --Tokusatsu Heroes--
Five teenagers, one alien ghost, a robot, and the fate of the world.

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MeTo

Do people not remember the billions of cd's AOL put out all had a copy of IE. Microsoft could put some alternative browers on there disk and give you the choice to install what you want.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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byteme

Will Apple be doing the same?

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Cache

No, because the narcissitic EU would be offended if they have to give up style for true competition.  Although I'd love to see Jobs tell the EU that Apple simply wouldn't sell anything to Europe and thereby avoid any unfair practices. 

Bricks.  They would be shat.

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MeTo

I guess when your the low man on the totem pole they don't care what you do. The EU sued Microsoft because they have the monopoly the top man on the totem pole and the most money.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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mesiah

Thats always the way it is. Its the reason everyone hates McDonalds even though burger king makes a point not to be healthy with their 3k calorie sandwiches. And everyone hates walmart for its business practices that are no different than what target, kmart, or any place else practice. But its one thing for the people to hate on companies for being too big and powerful. But when governments start making one company follow rules that no other company has to follow, thats BS. If one company can not package a browser with their OS then no company should be allowed to. While were at it, we should probablay strip any web browsers from our phones too. You know, my tivo accesses the internet... I don't even recall getting an option of what software it should use..... Man, EU get your pen out and write this down. You are  missing out on billions of dollars in lawsuits.

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Morete

European Union regulators said Friday that Microsoft Corp. was offering less choice, not more, by vowing to sell the next version of Windows without any Web browsers at all

Now the EU is complaining that Windows operating systems without a browser offers no real choice.  It Looks like the EU just shot themselves in the foot.  

Microsoft said Thursday that it would remove its Internet Explorer browser — and not include any alternatives — in the Windows 7 software it will sell from Oct. 22 in Europe to soothe EU antitrust concerns.

But the European Commission said it preferred to see consumers offered a choice of browser "not that Windows would be supplied without a browser at all." "Rather than more choice, Microsoft seems to have chosen to provide less," the EU said.  A "must carry" option that would offer several browsers was a better option, the EU executive suggested, because "consumers should be provided with a genuine choice of browsers" on the software that manufacturers install on computers.

Now the EU is blaming Microsoft for not offering choice just after the EU themselves told Microsoft to take their browser out of the OS download, and they will probably require Microsoft to install a ballot screen to vote on which browser to download. 

Thank goodness I don't live in this EU dictatorship that doesn't think things through before they make decisions.

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I Jedi

Well, the United States, and the way we do shit, isn't exactly too much better.

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comptech08

i still dont see why it is wrong for Microsoft to have there OWN internet browser in their OWN operating system.  And in no way is that anti-trust either.  EU is power hungry and getting dangerous.

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Denis63

So... how do people get on the internet to download firefox? I use IE to literally kill itself on my computer, i like it :)

If theres no IE, does that mean that there will be no [IE related] security holes?

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Pentium 0

Off the MaximumCD of course!

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MeTo

I wish i could get a copy of Win 7 with no IE no media center no media player and no auto indexing and no auto defraging. These are the things i don't like about Vista.

Linux Mint,Dual boot/Vista,AMD Athlon+ x2 5600,3 Gig ram,500 Gig HDD,ATI 1300 Video.

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