Epic President: “The Money’s on Console" Thanks to Piracy

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viciousglad

I would love spending money on a game like that. In the end it's just a personal preference but I would definitely go out and spread it to my friends... that's how awesome this game is.

Alex - spread bet specialist.

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Fecal Face

I think the main reason people pirate games is becuse of the game being crap on the PC and great on the console. Why did Assassin's Creed 2 get cracked so quickly? Because the DRM was bullshit. Modern Warfare 2 was a joke, it still costs "console-price" ($60) on steam and lacks most of the features you'd expect in a PC game (ded. servers?).

If devs stepped up their game and actually gave half a shit about PC users, they would make more sales. It's like they're saying they're not going to try because there's no money. Well if they tried, there would be money.

IMO, if you keep pumping out crap to the PC platform "because of piracy", you're only fuelling piracy.

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MrSky

Gabe Newell is laughing all the way to the bank. Maybe if devs could drop prices to reasonable levels and remove DRM (or at least keep it friendly), they'd move more units. Sure, on the consoles you can make $60 a pop for your title, but you also have to deal with UsedGameStop where you make 0.0 dollars per unit. Sounds a bit like piracy, imo.

Also, making good games is a better way to make money. Torchlight was knocked out in a year with a small dev team and just hit the 500k units mark. Killed indie developers? Steam saved indie development by crushing the old b&m publisher stranglehold (trading it for a Gabe stranglehold, but hey, it works for now).

Consoles are good for some things, but dismissing the pc platform is the act of a desperate and ignorant company. 

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p309

I have been buying PC games (and no console) for 21 years. I've never been tempted to pirate a game until the last couple of years. What really burns my @$$ is having to buy a copy for each computer I own. We love to co-op at home, and we've recently purchased 4 copies of Left4Dead, 2 copies of Left4Dead 2, 2 copies of Splinter Cell Conviction, and the list goes on. So, we're looking at over $100 to play a new title in our house, sometimes more. We should be able to use one purchase/license for all of the PCs that I own. And I won't change my mind about that. To me, it's like buying a baseball bat, for instance, but only one member of our household can use it. Why is it ok for the public library to lend copywrited material, and us poor PC gamers are made to be criminals before we even purchase the game?  I'm talking about the draconian DRM that makes a legit purchaser jump thru all of these hoops to use WHAT WE HAVE PURCHASED!

I'm getting kind of sick of it all, and may have to give up one of my favorite hobbies, or just play the hundreds of games that I already have. Remember when Epic released the UT patch xxx that  eliminated the disc check, so the game could be played without a disc?  What happened to the days when the customer got a break now and then...

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Dude420

here comes a rant from me now, move aside Gordon

When it comes down to it, straight to the point:

Publishers (as well as the developers they hire) are out to make money.Thier mission statement is foremost to provide content that will, hopefully, sucssessfully be consumed.

As buisnessmen they invest in research, to find out what might be appealing to potential gamers. The Console Consummers (and dumb people in general) happen to consist of the mass majority, therefore they are given the priority and the talent is shaped in the direction of what might appeal to that given target group.

Apart from personal opinion and individual taste, the brilliance of each release generally BEGINS with gifted artists and people that can chanel thier output to portray the vision on the production director, and slowly, slowly ENDS with corporate bs and obtusity and compromised degradation? procedures due to lacking the means of optimizing efficiency? or just somehow forgetting to apply those last 2 coats of polish? running out  of doughnuts (and on soundFX recording day too!)

 As a Maya Animator and a (research study group type-) unreleased product tester,

most of (console) sales depend on: TV ads and street survey statistic results.

most people just want a game they can feel they are good at. they want to feel succssessful and that they have a talent at something.

Some like to test thier twitch instinct,

somelike to test thier thinking abilities and thier abilities to stagetise,

yet some prefer social cooperation and human vs human challenges,

yet some (like me) are in it to see convincing (yet not altogether realistic) gibby pieces flying and guts wobble as they land with a sticky meat sound... and super innovative scifi weaponary that does innovative damage model systems... and are not concerned of how much this can be like regular life on earth (like the super loser Sims regulars and other virtually non-existants)

the majority of folks seem to like what others do, regardless of personal preference. Thats what makes a PC gamer so special! especially if he is a MaximimPC reader. He is, by default, a more refined character.

Even a (hate that word) newbwannaB PC dude takes a bite and can instanltly know he's eating sh*t, and a seasoned gamer can tell bs or no-bs at a glance and spare himself the disgrace in the first plance. Lets also drive by the fact that (most chances) he knows some technical scecifications of his hadware (even if he isn't entirely sure what it means-yet) is an indication toward enhanced perception and congition.

As we are such a particular demanding target group to cater to, far fewer are those that rise to the challenge and, mostly only the passionate enough to embrace to higher immersions, assuming nobody is gagging them backwards at the reigns.

Good things to come, beyond current comprehension capacity

future becoming past, cutting-edge soon obsolete

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Valerie

God I love the executives. Yesterday the evil was communism. Today evil is the terrorism. Tomorrow it will be gaming piracy. LMAO @ their fat asses.

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omen3330

I thought you would say capitalism, keep the -isms going. =P

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Xylogeist

This article is ironic, because I have 56 pirated xbox 360 games next to me, and about 40 GC and PS2 pirated games in my game drawer :P

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Cage

Download and play the demo.

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Mighty BOB!

Some don't have demos. :(  <-- Sadface.

Ideally they would all have demos.

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kiaghi7

All anyone has to do is check the public profile of Epic games to realise that their financial floundering has nothing what so ever to do with the PC.

 

They've made their own mess on the consoles, failed miserably, and now proceed to blame the PC for piracy when their console games wind up loosing money or making very little which of course hurts future investment potential and lessens interest from publishing houses and public investment groups.

 

Nae nae, piracy hasn't made Epic's mess, Epic made Epic's mess and now that they are starting to realize that re-releasing the same game with 1% "new" is something only the enormous publishing houses like EA can get away with... oh wait, their books are tanking as well... hmmm... 

 

Well that's a thought... Maybe it isn't piracy after all... Maybe it's just developers not getting droves of fawning fans at the prospect of buying the same gaming experience ad infinitum simply because some development studio wants to phone in a sequel and collect another paycheck on the same thing people have already played!?!

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HeartBurnKid

If piracy was really so detrimental to Epic's bottom line, they wouldn't have existed in the first place.  Piracy isn't something that just happened, it's something that is endemic to the idea of an open platform.   And even a closed platform like consoles doesn't necessarily protect you: pretty much the only platform that is unhacked these days is the PS3, and that's mostly due to lack of interest in running backups due to the high price of Blu-Ray burning.  Heck, softmodding a Wii is absolutely trivial.

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HeartBurnKid

"Retarded. Piracy has never before existed on this scale, whereby it is
possible for one person to share a game not with a few friends, but with
tens of thousands of strangers."

So, I take it you don't remember BBS's?  Usenet?

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Lummoxx

Hey, it's Robin Hood!

So, it's ok to pirate from those you don't like, but shame on you for pirating from what *you* support.

No, it's *NOT* "fair enough" to buy a game, but then play the pirated version.  You're *still* telling the game companies that, "Hey, I'm ok with your abhorrent DRM!".

The only way to win is to not to play...but that won't happen, it looks like everyones sense of entitlement is just too massive.

Whether it's Britney or Blizzard, pirates are those who *wouldn't have paid for the content anyway*.

There is no way to stop the piracy.  For every new DRM scheme, there will be a crack.  It's always been that way, and it always will be.  Supporting companies that are still, after 20 years or so of UTTER FAILURE at DRM, that's what is "retarded". 

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PawBear

 This controversy keeps coming up here yet MPC has recently had articles about pc gaming sales and the success of various titles. If a publisher develops a game worth buying they sell big time despite pirating.  What's the fuss?

Personally I'll wait 'till I get a deep discount on a game I might like.  Games are a commodity like anything else.  I see no need to pirate.

*** "Either we conform the Truth to our desires or we conform our desires to the Truth." ***

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Ralph12345

Have they done anything in the last five years that was worth buying?

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Lhot

 ...of torrents for console games  :/

This is just another DEV that's too damn lazy to put the time and effort into a PC game, and blaming piracy....my 8 yr old nephew can think up better excuses...sheesh  :/   Why should they spend 10x the man hours for their $50  when they can sell revamped crap for the same price?  Then to jump on the bandwagon and scream "piracy" as the cause of this decision, is just plain stoooopid  !

 

The "CLOUD" is the biggest mistake this country has made...EVER !

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johnny3144

while it is true that you can pirate console games, it is much harder to do so. first you must mod your console, and risking of being banned from the online service(if you can go online at all). then you have to download the game and burn it in the correct format, espeically PS3 that uses blu-ray. most console players arent' tech savy enough to do this, so they just buy games.  piracy rate on PC is much higher than console. epic is being very frank about it, and it's understandable. it's the freerider problem, and there aren't any solution for it unless they somehow make video game a private good. the only solid solution is to stop piracy without hurting the paying user. 

 

it's not laziness that prevent them from releasing games, it's because the profit of porting it to PC is less than the oppertunity cost(again, because of piracy)

 

i am a hardcore PC gamer, and i never bought a single console since i started PC. thou sometime i am very tempted to buy a XBOX 360 simply because some title never make it to PC  due to piracy. 

 

bottomline, STOP PIRATING!

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omen3330

"i am a hardcore PC gamer, and i never bought a single console since
i started PC. thou sometime i am very tempted to buy a XBOX 360 simply
because some title never make it to PC  due to piracy. 

 

bottomline, STOP PIRATING!"

 

Ditto all  that.

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Zazubovich

Console users are not the same kind of users as computer users.  You can sell a bajillion copies of a game, then change the graphics and declare it a new game, and the same chumps will line up to buy it over and over again.  Rock band.  Call of duty.  These are big time unit shifters.  Can they be duped?  Oh hell yeah, and I bet there are places that are making bank selling cheap copies.  But once you've made the prime investment in the game engine you can keep cranking out barely modified versions of the same thing and know that you will sell a huge number in the short term with a longer or shorter tail depending on how well the game is received and what other releases are competing with it in the calendar.  WWII shooter plus five sequels, bank.  Scifi shooter with sequels.  Haunted house shooter with sequels.  Big game hunter with sequels.  Heck, fishing with sequels.  Modern shooter.  Vietnam shooter.  Soon we get a WWI shooter, maybe a Revolutionary War shooter or Civil War for the reenactor crowd.  All on the same engine, you only paid the art department for five years.

Pc games want fast improvements in graphics, a lot of modifiability in the games, replayability, and the users are more than likely to try to break into the code to make cheats.  Even Quake 1, which provided the engine for numerous games on the PC, was the ongoing subject of endless patches and updates from Id software to take advantage of rapid changes in hardware (3dfx, rendition, nvidia, DX) and serve the expectations of users in terms of online matches, network gaming, and so on.  It must have cost a lot of money to keep remaking the game engine over the product development cycle.  Then licensing the engine to another company that wants to make a dungeon shooter (hexen) and so on showed the profit potential.  But succeeding Quake games changed less for hardware and provided less content until there was no single player and it was ported to consoles. 

Writing the engine to the three consoles is guaranteed money even if you only license the engine.   Writing for pc hardware even with Direct X is likely a neverending profit sink and headache with nothing but heartache and complaints as your reward.  I think only Blizzard has really done this well from the start.

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omen3330

Well thought out answere, would I be safe to summarize it as pc gamers want more and console gamers settle with the same crap?

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devastator_2000

I like to own, but I look at PC games the same way as CD's and DVD's, they just want way too much for them.  I will not pay more than $30.00 for any game.  I have been burned many times in the past by PC games.  You go to the store and buy the game for $50.00 only to get it home and it not play right or just flat out suck.  When it comes to a game sucking, it does not always help to read a review.  I have played games that got great reviews, but i still dont like them.  so what i do is wait untill the game is reduce to $29.99 at the store.  by that time the game is at least 6 months old, so I not only get it for cheaper, but there are patches out that fix the games issues.

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noobstix

Piracy isn't the only thing that could kill the PC gaming industry.  Making crap games is what will really do it.  I've been on both sides of this issue and I have to say that there are games that I regret spending $50 just because I didn't want to hassle with the "workarounds".  For example, I bought copies of "X-Blades" and "Hellgate: London" hoping to get some long-term enjoyment out of these games.  The result for paying $50 for each game:  X-Blades - played it only a few times and have shelved it, Hellgate: London - played it until the developers went under and it too has been sitting on the shelves since then.  So basically what it all comes down to is whether people have paid $50 for a game that can be enjoyed right out of the box or an over-hyped POS that was a regrettable purchase.  There's rarely any sort of "demo" (legitimately) you could try out nowadays and see whether it really is worth the $50.  Developers expect players of PC games to enjoy it right out of the box.  PC games (or maybe even games in general) have become more like movies where developers hope to attract willing gamers by spewing out screenshots and trailers.  However, it's no good if the game has some major technical issues (DRM, bugs, glitches, etc.).

In any case, I still have a few other PC games I've purchased that I can play for the time being until there's that one PC game (*ME3*) that comes out to which I will gladly fork over $50 any day.  Until then, I'll have second thoughts about buying any PC games from the big name companies (although I've clearly made an exception).

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omen3330

You are totaly right, I have about 30 game colecting dust because they just suck or have little to no replay value. I also agree with you as far as demos go, there used to be game demos for every damn game but now you have to rely from reviews or word of mouth. Not good enough for me. Usualy a friend of mine buys a game, I play it and if I like it I buy it. For example, ME2 I played and beat on the console, loved it, and bought it on the PC anyways.There are some games on console I would love to play, but I am not willing to pay $400 on a console only to have it fail a week after the damn warranty making me pay another $300 for another console because I already invested so much damn cash on accessories and games, only to have itfail again. I'm done with that crap. I'll just go to a friends house and mooch console time off him.

 

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cappomutato

Blaming piracy for lousy PC sales is BS.  The console version of a game will outsell the PC version because the game was designed with the console in mind.  For a console gamer, the product is great.  But you won't get PC people too excited about the console game because that game's potential was handcuffed during development.  If you want a game to do well on the PC it has to be more than yet another console game.

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QUINTIX256

I suggest reading "Ritual's Mike Russell on Piracy" over at shacknews. I won't link here as of the infamous spam filter. To quote:

Responses he has received when attempting to troubleshoot problems have laid painfully bare which users are playing the game illegally. "What's Steam?" one asked. "I don't have one," replied another when asked for his Steam ID. "Oh, my copy didn't come with an installer," replied yet another user, "it's in a folder on a DVD. I just drag it to my machine and then run the game."

These are not financially independent adults. They are obviously kids, who rely on some other older kid to get the stolen property. They probably don't even know they are playing a stolen game. The adults probably paid for the GPUs once the kid discovered the family pc can't play games.

Blatant pirates are a minority. It is simply a large minority because the PC install base is huge. The gpu install base on the other hand...

Companies like XFX and eVGA need to start buying adspace on TV, even if we pc gamers have to pay more to subsidize getting the word out. 

You can have your recession. I'm not participating.

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LatiosXT

Another comment from me on the subject matter, this time something a little more substantial. What irks me is that these "former" PC game developers are going to a system that's more about making money that one thing PC gaming is good for: advancing technology in games. Epic was one of the forerunners in advancing technology, and they could make really good looking games that ran on modest hardware (my laptop can run Gears of War, and it doesn't really look any different than the 360 version, and it's not a gaming one either).

But now they want to develop a closed system which will be in the same generation for anothe 2-4 years easily. I want to see improvements in graphics, AI, interactivity, physics, etc. (We've pretty much "mastered" sound). You won't make improvements on a console, because you have a limited amount of resources to work with. Really, for all intents and purposes, either console is still sporting a graphics card 4 generations old now with limited system memory to boot (I know, consoles don't need that much, but they're still multitasking machines).

If Unreal Engine 4 is going to be a console only engine, I'm not going to even bother getting all excited for it. It's just going to look like Unreal Engine 3 with a list of "improvements". Like how CryTek showed up with a list of "improvements" for CryEngine 3 when in reality most of that was already available for CryEngine 2, it's just now they could finally run it on a console.

What also bugs me is that Epic is a private company. They don't have stockholders to worry about. And they're acting like they have stock holders. And don't they make most of their money anyway licensing their damn engine? What? They want to make Gears of War 3 the next Halo/Call of Duty/Whatever the hell FPS teens these days worship?

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samduhman

I haven't pirated a game since the 80s when I was a broke teenager. Today I buy all my games. I just don't buy crappy console ports or DRM festered games such as UBISOFT games.

I will pay top dollar for quality exclusive PC games if they are good. Something these big time developers seem to be clueless on. PC gamers want games which play well with PC hardware not games developed to work for 5 year old consoles. We are bored of those types of games. Give us something new creative/innovative and we will buy it.

EPIC IS GREEDY. He said it himself "It’s because the money’s on console.”.. They don't care about making a great game anymore. They just want to cash in quick for as much as possible.  Fine, I'll continue to buy INDIE developed titles.

I wish EPIC would shutup already. They've been spouting off this BS for years now.

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LatiosXT

I still think the worst excuse for not releasing a game on the PC was from Remedy and Alan Wake. "You can't create the living room experiencce on a desktop PC."

I faceplamed so badly.

 

But way to alienate your original fanbase Epic. I suppose I could add them along with EA, Ubisoft, and Activision on my list of "comapnies I couldn't give two [self-censored] about."

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Lummoxx

...it still won't be true.  They're just betting if they say it enough, people will begin to believe it.

Piracy killed (or is killing) PC gaming?  I doubt it.

If anything is killing PC gaming, it's the game companies, like Epic, who just want to follow the money.  And that's fine.  It's what companies do, but don't make up lame excuses and blame "piracy".  The fact is, you wouldn't have gotten that money anyway.

You can also start pointing the finger at companies like Ubisoft.  Their DRM has probably done more to kill PC gaming than any other single factor in the last 10 years.  How many new gamers sat there staring at their blank screen when they tried to play AC2?

You can also point the finger at people like me.  I haven't paid $49.99+ for a game since HL2.  You know why?  Because they're not worth that much to me.   Sorry, I'm done paying a premium price to companies that don't really want my business.  I'm not paying for their DRM schemes.  I'm not paying for their multi-million dollar advertising campaigns.  I'm not paying for their star studded commercials.

But, I've bought plenty of games lately.  Torchlight (well worth the $20 I paid).  Prey (decent shooter, cheap on Steam a couple months ago), The Witcher, the indie bundle from last week...

I buy tons of games...just not the AAA titles with the premium content you have to unlock off the disc you bought, overpriced DLC, and onerous DRM.  PC gaming won't die...but at this rate, THEIR version of it might.

No great loss... 

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omen3330

Piracy on consoles is just as easy. Should we encourage pirating on consoles to level the playing fields? Pass 'em discs and mod them boards folks!

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brotherj

I wouldn't say console piracy is just as easy...though it is doable by someone willing to a.)find someone to chip their system, b.)risk them destroying your console, and/or c.)take a chance on your system being bricked when it goes online and is discovered to be modded.

The ease of PC piracy is what makes it a juicier target thus it's not about winning or losing for the company, it's about losing much less by going console.

I envy the guy who finally develops a truly hack-proof DRM scheme that doesn't screw paying customers. The guy's gonna make a buttload of money. C'mon epiphany!!

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k11k

Look modding a console is not that hard and even if you buy pricey media or storage devices, it's all still is cheaper then buying a $60 game. Also even after paying someone (Craiglist) to mod your console it still is cheaper than buying retail price games.

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Peanut Fox

Well, it's not entirely illegal to mod your console.  After all you bought it.  Though some of the things done in the process of modding are a violation of the TOS.

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omen3330

I've been to places where there are about 3 or 4 shops one right after another that will chip your xbox, sure it may not be as easy but it is not as difficult as you make it sound. If you can use a screw driver, you can mod your console, and yes you do risk being locked out of Xbox live even if you have the console off but plugged into the internet, however people seem to forget that an Xbox is just another machine on the internet and does not have to use Xbox live to play games online.

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Fefe

I love PC gaming, you can totally modify and enhance graphics etc.  Too bad, I can see how the "money's on console" to prevent piracy, but it happens too with those.  They should do what STEAM does, they are genius with their system.  

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Drakaun

Oh,and here goes the usual excuses why people "steal" games.Im so sick of you thiefs making excuses why you steal a product.I mean come on.You say oh the game sucked anyhow,glad I didnt waste my money.Are you too lazy to review a game,or downlaod a demo? 99% of the time Im happy with a game I buy.because I review,demos, or know the devlopers reputation.Obviously,probably why you steal it in the first place.Because your a loser without a job! The DRM excuse is really getting old.I dont like,but it has never caused me any problems,get over it.Why do you think DRM came out in the first place?for the hell of it?!.Because you losers were stealing there games.

Make all the BS excuses you want.Either way PC is going to get crap games(ports) the MORE you steal them.You think stealing there games is a form of protest?! Get real,there going to win in the end because there a business,there here to make money!

The only reason I havnt went back to console is because of MMO's and racing sims.I am seriously thinking about getting a console soon.Because its getting to the point where certain regular single player games are not coming to PC.

Blame them all you want,if it makes you feel batter.Fact is they will always make more money on console,due to the amount of users and less piracy.If you guys were not stealing so many games from them,they could make some cash on PC games.Its just business.Do YOU want someone stealing your product? Do YOU care about excuses people give You why there stealing your product? Will you go where the money is? YES,its common sense.

Get a job and quit making excuses why you should steal someones product.Fact is,its just an excuses to not spend 50 bucks.Typical americans,want something for nothing....its sad.

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tri8gman

"You say oh the game sucked anyhow,glad I didnt waste my money.Are you
too lazy to review a game,or downlaod a demo?"

Demos don't tell that much on PCs. Graphics Card X might work with the demo, break with the actual game. Demos are like movie trailers - how many movies have all the best stuff in their trailer?

"99% of the time Im happy
with a game I buy.because I review,demos, or know the devlopers
reputation."

How do you review a game? Do you work for a magazine or other publication? I'm sorry if I've actually disagreed with the critics before in both directions. Reputation isn't a big enough factor alone.

"Obviously,probably why you steal it in the first
place.Because your a loser without a job! The DRM excuse is really
getting old.I dont like,but it has never caused me any problems,get over
it.Why do you think DRM came out in the first place?for the hell of
it?!.Because you losers were stealing there games."

There's a difference between not having a job and being a loser. There's also the case of having a job and no money to spend. I'm sorry if you haven't been paying attention, but apparently it's a little harder to get a job these days (Yes, I have one). Just because DRM never caused you any issues doesn't mean nobody has any issues. Do you get bluescreens? No? Maybe you don't have ThirdPartySoftware.exe installed with ScrewsWithYourDRM.dll. I personally don't like having files on my system that I can't delete (unless I use Linux). DRM came out because the industry doesn't get that you can't stop product loss 100%. The margin is merely much much smaller for consoles.

"Make all the BS excuses you want.Either way PC is going to get crap
games(ports) the MORE you steal them.You think stealing there games is a
form of protest?! Get real,there going to win in the end because there a
business,there here to make money!"

There's no way to actually track piracy or how much it cost. #Pirates != #Possible Customers. If every PC game pirate stopped pirating right this minute, they wouldn't stop using DRM. YOU get real. DRM, like locking the door on your car (if your car decided to randomly lock you, the owner, out here and there) will only stop the casual theives. If they want your car, they will GET your car.

"The only reason I havnt went back to console is because of MMO's and
racing sims."

I hope you can see why MMOs are still VERY profitable on PC. 

"Blame them all you want,if it makes you feel batter.Fact is they will
always make more money on console,due to the amount of users and less
piracy.If you guys were not stealing so many games from them,they could
make some cash on PC games."

Consoles make more money regardless of PC piracy. This is because the vast majority of people are average, and consoles are color coded.

"Its just business.Do YOU want someone
stealing your product? Do YOU care about excuses people give You why
there stealing your product? Will you go where the money is? YES,its
common sense."

No shit sherlock about going where the money is, but stopping crime isn't all about locking your doors. There is a reason millionaires don't steal anything (except more money through loop holes in the financial system, but I digress).

"Get a job and quit making excuses why you should steal someones
product.Fact is,its just an excuses to not spend 50 bucks.Typical
americans,want something for nothing....its sad."

Again with your assumptions (and lack of proper spacing). I'd be more inclined to spend $20 or $30, and so would 3 of my friends versus just my 1 friend spending $50. $80 - $120 combined from 4 people just isn't the same as $50 from 1 person, I guess.

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LatiosXT

Why should I spend $50 to play Dora the Explorer? Not that I play that game.

Also I think the figures for PC gaming is... there's still a lot of money there. 

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