Digital Rights Groups Unveil "Declaration of Internet Freedom"

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The Corrupted One

Now everyone uses this as an excuse for pirating.
People can delude themselves with anything if it saves them money.

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Supall

The right to free speech is not an excuse to get away with libel, slander, & hate speech.

The right to bear arms is not an excuse to shoot anyone you please.

The right to assembly is not an excuse to sit on private property indefinitely.

We have a lot of rights, limited by what society accepts and/or tolerates.

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The Corrupted One

Ask a pirate what justifies pirating after telling them that it's stealing, and they will tell you that it's because of DRM(car keys are annoying, so i'm gonna go steal some cars!)not to feed the crooked companies (then why are you partaking in their product?), or because it's not physical property and doesn't qualify as stealing(your Facebook account isn't physical property, so you better not get mad when I figure out your password, and your money is barely physical these days too.)

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thetechchild

It's not at all the same thing.

DRMs are more like a tracking system built into your car that tells the manufacturer where your car is, even if you haven't reported it stolen, a huge violation of rights. A key/lock is for checking that entry-time access to a single product is restricted to one person, while DRMs can require constant Internet access even for single-player games.

Not to feed crooked companies = don't give them money = take product, don't pay. Partaking in their product doesn't "feed" them at all, if you don't pay.

A Facebook profile is not the same as a movie, a clip of music, or a video game. Those are all 100% reproducible without significant cost in time or effort. A Facebook profile, on the other hand, is unique to the individual, and is directly attached to their real-life identity. Pirates steal copyable content, not Facebook profiles and MMO characters.

You may or may not agree with piracy, and I'm all for freedom of speech. But the freedom of speech does not excuse stupid speech, no?

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The Corrupted One

The point I am trying to make is that pirates will twist anything to justify their theft of intellectual property. According to the logic of pirates on this very chatboard, they DO interpret things in overly direct, basic ways like you said in your first post. For instance:

DRM is badong: DRM may be wrong, but only about ten people actually care, the rest are pirates who need some kind of excuse for their thievery:

Low game quality: Then why are you playing it?

Don't like the company: sure, go pirate the game and give the 60$ to charity instead of spending it on booze.

Don't got the money: If one lacks 60$, or with the current state of digital distribution, under 10$, they shouldn't be sitting on their ass playing games.

Old unavailable games: This makes sense, go ahead NES emulators.

People simply hide behind anything, such as these sorts of "legal" material, to justify pirating.

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RaptorJohnson

"Property - digital citizens have a right to benefit from what they create, and be secure in their intellectual property on the internet"

That would kill the pirate bay. Which I'm all for. I don't like their self righteous attitude about informational freedom when we all know what 99% of that site is used for.

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Ghok

Yes, what this campaign for freedom and openness really lacks is the desire to control intangible property!

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RaptorJohnson

Not a single dollar of yours in the bank is tangible.
Not a single word you have ever spoken is tangible.
Not a single thought in your head is tangible.

It is often the intangibles that are the most important and need the most protection.

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I Jedi

Everyone is looking to control everything. Why not let the free market decide where the Internet goes?

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RaptorJohnson

I'm pretty uber-conservative, but I am strongly against a corporation controlled internet.

There are many reason for this, but the only one I will list here is that I'm pretty sure I already own the internet as an american citizen. It was built by our tax dollars and I don't see why we should give something we already own to others so they can sell it back to us.

I am aware that ISPs share in the cost of maintaining the internet, and so they should get compensated for connecting us. But if they want to have a private network that they "own" and can control then they should start building a separate network and call it something else (a little bit like the military did with SIPRNET).

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I Jedi

Believe me, I entirely understand where you are coming from. I remember a few years ago ISPs we're talking about having you pay an extra few cents to visit Google instead of Yahoo because that particular ISP had a deal with that particular search engine company; however, by and large, I don't see the government regulation and intervention as a better way to "protect" and keep the Internet open. I will be the first to admit that right now many Americans only have one choice when it comes to an Internet provider, but I would prefer that than government enacting legislation like "SOPA" or "CISPA".

While you're right to say that the government started the Internet for military purposes, I assume that ISPs have spent more money maintaining and expanding the network since its incorporation into the public domain. There are drawbacks, but I would prefer a free market role over government because, to be frank, I don't think the government is competent enough or moral enough to do what's needed and right.

Again, I see your point of view, believe me. I just believe the free market would open up new alternatives with new venture capitalist opening up their own Internet provider services to counter the currently dominated stranglehold of a few major providers, or even other, ingenious ways of making the Internet remain true to what it's about - open access and freedom.

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aarcane

The Internet doesn't need a bill of rights, it needs International Sovereignty, and to be ruled by users and administrators as a panel.
I believe that the internet must achieve sovereignty, and that such core issues as domains, routing, and any new technologies that become essential should never be under the control of any government or agency without the consent of the sovereign internet government. Other services, such as what servers can host what content from what soil, on the other hand, are a completely different matter all together, and of course I beleive governments should be able to enforce content laws over such. I keep meaning to write a proper declaration of independence, claim to sovereignty, bill of rights and enumeration over rights as applied to modern technology, but never have the time :(

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kamikaji

That kind of system just plain doesn't work because the majority of average Joes using the internet have NO idea what any of this stuff is, and most of them don't care. They just flick on their computer and want it to work; they don't want to deal with looking over policy and user rights stuff.

A sovereign internet where everyone has a say on every issue sounds nice, but it would simply never work. Look at Facebook--they tried this and it didn't end well. (Facebook's first trial for having people vote on policy had a .01% voter turnout......YIKES). http://vr-zone.com/articles/facebook-privacy-policy-voting-fails-due-to-low-turnout/16233.html

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Supall

The United States's Bill of Rights is broad for a reason. It is meant to protect your rights as broadly as possible. This leaves a lot to debate about in the future, too. For instance, "The Right to Bear Arms" is still a hotly contested issue since the word "militia" has been redefined by both sides to try to fit it in the modern day era (national guard vs. private gun owners).

By keeping the statements clear, concise, and broad, you cover as much as possible and have a fair, non-predetermined debate about the issue if the need ever arises. The more specific it is, the greater the number of loopholes you'll have.

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sundropdrinker3

Someone actually using logic and common sense on here. Doesn't happen too often.

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