Developers Wage War Against Used Game Sales

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oxmix

people are not broke,the whole industry is a testament to that.i think i may have and be a little sanctamonious..(high horse)but people die for our western comforts and entertainments .no real figures at
hand but im sure 80% of programers and developers are players before they have that job.stop paying
money to people for really no social benafit if you wanna bitch about the way its going.these games are fun
and truly amaze me how it grew from 8 bit adventures or even earlier: punch -card computations.1880year of our lord lol.

i wouldnt be at all surprised if your dollars work their way to defense contractors pockets.lol

its simple, i like the games even if they are buggy or expensive,or both.but outside of that im sure thats
where the simplicity ends.why ive writen anything  at all here is that im sitting on about $350 worth of games i cant play because i have 2 year old pc.and i have to sell them to friends because there is no avenue
for resale:  learned from a nightclub owner that people just like to bitch and will do so even if they have a
good time while there.again ..change the situation manualy or shut up!

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aviaggio

LAME. Total BS. What's the difference between me playing the same game 10x or 10 different people playing it once???

DLC is BS too. I've already paid $40-$60 for a game, but then I'm expected to spend more $ for the "full" version?!?!?

Newsflash game companies... people are BROKE. Keep going down this road and you're going to screw the pooch big time.

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oxmix

having read mostly all of the posts here i find im @ a loss for words.anolgy is best for these situations,but try explaing in that fasion to a person your age from the periphory..(where we get our resources at almost nothing to live the way we do) about how this and that is pissing you off.your monitary vote  is going in a balletbox(wallet)and is your way of saying im an idiot and i wanna play games at the cost of others souls

i can live with that and have no dellussions of why its a crappy game or why  small efforts are made to sway my cash vote and screw me after ive already paid.the car anolgy is off a bit too since our economy hasnt run on silicon but oil for 200+years.if it did there would be plenty of ways to trade and resell your software.

these are entertainment dollars...if dont like the way its going change your vote.

hope that helps tidy up the place

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doodle_44

If the makers of a new game would offer a buy-back program (for a fair price) and then check out what they bought to make sure it is in working condition and then remarket the game.....yes they are entitled to more money.  But to collect dollars for something they have no longer have a vested interest in is not a reasonable request. The next step would be to charge us a premium to keep using the game just in case we didn't want to sell it. The only people that I can think of that get by doing this is the government (taxes).

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Perplexing Man

Here's an ideal, my first car was a used ford escort which i bought at a ford dealership (duh!) anyways even though this car was used I was financed through the Ford motor credit union. So Ford received my money and not some third party. If the big game publishers had any since they would dare I say "join" together and create there own used game outlet. This way as people traded in old games for store credit to purchased another whether it be new or used they all could share in the profits to be made from such a joint venture. Oh wait what am I saying that just makes too much sense I mean to simply band together and add some competition in the used game market. I for one rarely do buy new unless it's reasonable ( 5 dollars or less difference in price that is). Wonder what the game company think about that? I for one would like to see this I mean at one time here in the middle of nowhere Ohio i had up to 4 different stores that all sold used games and what was great was that I could go to each store and find the game i wanted and never had to worry if I paid too much. If the games publishers did this they like the others could offer a competitve price and may be able to sway some customers away all the while making a few extra bucks on one of their games a second or third time around.  

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Antoni

Look at the economy today and they're  scratching at the door for more money. Most of todays games are worth the retail price, but after that, the second and third buyers are buying a big question mark (?). Maybe the game works, or maybe the game doesn't. If second and third buyers have to put out more for something thats not new then I would think a lot of people would stop buying the used games. Maybe that's a good thing?   Stick it to them where it hurts!  The Lost Scribe

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milehighxr

What a crock. So what if people are buying used games. It's their right. You think Ford/GM/etc.. are going to ban used car sales because people aren't buying new ones? It's exactly what these game developers are asking for. There will always be people willing to pony up full new price for games. And then there are those like me who console once every 2-3 yrs(I loved my Nintendo-when I was 10...), and flatly refuse to pay $50 for a game I may not like, especially if I can't get a full refund with in x days of buying it, just because I didn't like it. The last console games I bought were all used, and I only ever finished one, and lost interest in the others. Besides, used games are typically scratched, and they may not work anyhow...

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schinkinatror

doesnt really bother me because i dont have a console. But if the developers really want to compete they would buy them back for more and sell them for less because lets face it Gamestop rips you off. They will buy a game for like ten bucks and sell it for like 30$ if its new and they can do it because there is no competition.

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jlh304

EB and gamestop use to sell used pc games.  Then they stopped.  Publishers went after them for not getting royalities, but I think what did them in was that it promoted people coping games and bring them back.

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samduhman

 

1- It's console games this article is  talking about. I don't console game....well a little but not enough to get upset about it.

2- It's Gamestop. They dumped on PC gaming long ago to make room for the used console games. If it hurts Gamestop then I'm all for it. 

I can somewhat understand it. Go after the big retailer (Gamestop) making a business off of the used games but don't make it hard for the gamer.  A regular joe should still be able to sell his used game and the person buying it shouldn't have to jump through hoops.

 

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mpcrsc562

So, how does this actually affect PC games and the PC gaming community? Like a previous post stated, I don't see used PC games at Gamestop and I wouldn't want to purchase a used PC game anyway. Actually, the last game I actually purchased new from Gamestop was The Orange Box. Since then, out of all of my game purchases (which were not a lot to begin with), I have only purchased two games from any brick-and-mortar establishment anyway (Best Buy). The remaining games I purchased came from Steam and last I checked, Steam didn't deal in used games--old games, maybe--but not used ones.


So, how does this potentially affect me? I don't really see that it will (unless I decide to get a Wii, 360, or PS3).

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ubuwalker31

Because of the absolutely unfair and idiotic way US law treats software consumers in the USA, every time you "buy" a piece of software, you are really only buying a license which gives you a right to use the software.

This makes sense in a corporate business environment...but makes no sense in a consumer transaction.

I've seen corporate computer licenses that say that the DVD remains the property of the seller and must be returned on demand and further restrict the use of the DVD to the original purchaser. 

Or, in this case, they could theoretically demand that the license holder pay them a royalty each time they transfer the license.  I have no idea how they would enforce this sort of draconian provision against tens of thousands of customers.

Of course, most ordinary people (consumers) who are buying software for their home don't understand the concept of licenses.  When they buy a DVD, they believe they own almost every single right to the software.   As well they should...a DVD is a tangible thing that they can hold in their hand...why shouldn't they be able to sell it?  They weren't told they couldn't resell it when they bought it.

Trying to enforce or explain restrictive rules like this to an ordinary consumer would cut into lots of sales.  People would get pissed.  There would be lawsuits for unfair consumer trade practices...it would be a mess.

I don't see this happening anytime soon.

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Subsect

The gaming industry is starting to seem like it's replaying the music industry's greatest hits.  The "used" argument has been played out already - twice.  Once in the 80s involving cassettes and again in the 90s with CDs (probably before that with other media as well).  The music industry lost both battles (obviously). I see no difference between a used game and a used CD.  This will pass on and be forgotten just like used music.

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zodi

Come one thats like car manufacturers are getting ripped of by re-selling my car.  Because thats someone who might have bought a new one.  Thats just stupid.  

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Spendrik

Actually the analogy to reselling cars, clothing, video tapes etc is flawed. Cars have a finite useful life; the car that you resell to another is not the same car you got fresh off the line. With digital media though, every subsequent owner gets a perfect copy of the game. The experience delivered to the user is the same, whether you've bought the game fresh, or used.

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ubuwalker31

Bzzzt...sorry...software has a finite useful life as well...I just tried to run a floppy disk of an old game I bought years ago, and it didn't work on my machine at all, since the media had failed.  I've had CDs and DVDs fail on me too.

Regardless of the merits of the analogy, "used software" can be sold for less than its original value.  The box has been open which automatically reduces the value.  The UPC barcode could have been cut out to get a rebate.  A manual might be missing.  The CD might not be in its original gem case.  Plus the new buyer is taking a risk since the original seller might still have a copy of the software on his computer using his original key, which could disable the used copy. Etc.

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Scatter

Just add product activation to new games just like many PC software titles require.  

Most new games seem to install on consoles now that all consoles have hard drives.  Just lock the game to the console that it was installed onto.  And before people complain that their hard drive can crash or their console can break, well i'm sure that publishers can impliment a back up plan for these people and provide a new code just like PC software companies do. 

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strykyr

First off, I can't find any used PC games.  Games Stop doesn't sell any.  I know you can find thousands on Ebay but I refuse to buy software d=from anyone on Ebay.  You just never know what your gonna get.  I bought one of the Brain Age games New and the other 4 games for my DS are used.  Only one of those came with a manual.  I have two copies of that one..Uno-Skip Bo - something else.  All of my PC games are legit and bought new.But the publishers got paid for those games before I bought them.  Same thing with Console games.  They get paid before the games hit the shelves.  Otherwise, HOW DID THEY GET ON THE SHELVES IN THE FIRST PLACE? I sure as hell feel no guilt whatsoever for buying used games.  If they think I'm going to pay to finish a game that someone else already paid full price for they can kiss my ass.  I just won't buy the game. Period.  And how can they make such a thing work on a DS anyway?  The WII and the PS3 and 360 yeah I can see because of the Internet connections.

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AaronDaub

Look folks, this is Coporate America we're talking about, all it is is economics.  What can you expect?  Comparing this to selling used clothing, or a restriction on one game per person is idiotic.  For one, game shoppers are much more likely to buy a game used than clothing shoppers are to buy clothing used, and the lines are much, much more blurred. I think that a retailer selling used copies of videogames should have to pay a set percentage to the devloper.  No ifs ands or buts, it makes sense.  Gamestop made a company based firmly on re-selling other's peoples work while cutting monetary gain from those people.  If you have a good product, people will buy it and losing money just because someone is willing to wait and purchase the game for cheaper with no gain to you seems unfair. 

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jlh304

Let me start by saying I think this is a bad idea.  Especially the part about buying a used game and having to pay extra for the ending.  Which would probably make the game cost almost as much as a new game.  Do they send me a new case and instruction manual with that purchase?

 But anyway when you rent movies the studios get a cut of every rental.  So maybe the same should be true for renting games. 

 I don't see how a used game is worth the price of a new game.  It's used and like most older software it's dated.  The graphics aren't the latest and greatest engine/coding. 

Scary how as tech advances and we can do so much more with it that we end up being able to do less with tech with all this drm crap.

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bloodgain

Courts have, numerous times, upheld the "First Sale Doctrine" in regards to resale of software.  Especially considering that the software is tied to the disc in regards to console games, it would be very difficult for games publishers to uphold any sort of restrictions on the resale of games.

Whether or not they could get away with "one time codes" that allow you to complete the game (analogous to a code that unlocks the ending of a movie) is questionable.  It certainly wouldn't go a long way toward not pissing off their customers.  Just like DRM, it would only hinder the innocent consumer.  People are already fleeing the PC scene for easy-to-use consoles because of draconian DRM and inflexible hardware requirements. This will only serve to reduce the console market.

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knexkid

Couldn't you make this arguement for anything you buy used?????  If I sell my old clothes, the clothing maker no longer makes money from that sale, because they already made their money from the initial purchase.  This is pretty bogus!

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aziobron

i buy 99% of my games used becuase i am so cheap lol.  someone already payed for the game new and the companies got their money for it.  why should they get money for it again.  that's bull.

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jediken21

EA CEO: "Baaaaaaw! I only have enough disposable income for seventy-two rampaging elphants in my backyard "

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Queenof1

so if I sell a game to my friend, the game developer expects to get a cut? Nothing like greed, eh?

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LazyTuna

yea right, I was always taught to share my toys when I was a kid.  Looks like next generation will all need their own toys, which nobody else can use.  Gonna suck even more to be a poor kid.

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r3dd4wg

If a game can be bought used, it means the original owner paid the full-price so you already got your money from that sale.  Now, you want to put Gamestop out of business because they are willing to put up their own money to re-sell the game???

But thanks for the warning.  If I have to pay extra on a game to get the "remaining content", even if its retail, I'm not buying it.

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LazyTuna

What about multiple users?  Microsoft already only allows one user to use a particular xbox live account, meaning that if siblings share an XBOX 360, they both need seperate XBOX live accounts if they both wish to play the same games. 

 I can easily see this strategy to cut used game sales being expanded to make it so EVERYONE needs their own new copy, meaning that family members and friends can't share games.  That is so un-beleivably f'd up.  I should be able to play (and beat) a game that my brother has already beat. 

Also, what if someone beat a game, replaced their gaming system, and then wanted to play the game again?  Would they need to pay for the second time through?

 I hate corporate money people, they have 100X more money than I will ever have, yet they still insist on me giving them more.   The only reason I buy used games is because I CAN NOT afford to buy them new, so I have to wait while until all the people who could afford it new are done playing.  That is what motivates people to buy new games, the game has to be good enough that not waiting outweighs the money spent.

 

 I think a perfect solution would be for the developers to reduce prices to the 10-20$ range after a year, then I would buy from them, brand new.  If the game is no longer under production, then I will buy the game used and it wont make a cent of difference for the company that USED to make the game.  If used games are illegal to sell, where will I get my N64 games?

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ween23

What's next are the publishers of books going to rip out the last pages of used books and library books . So you have to go on line an enter a code to finish the book?
I love this country. I love the freedoms we use to have. “George Carlin”

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bathtbgin

While this wont have any direct impact on me since i dont buy used games, i still think its outrageous.  Can you imagine buying a used movie and having to pay the extra if you want to see the last 15 minutes? 

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Pyrophorics

You know, they are spending millions upon millions brainstorming to find new
ways to protect their games and increase their profit. If they were to take
half of that energy and redirect it into completing a good product then maybe
people would buy more just because it was such a good game.

What's next, targeting companies that rent out your games? That would be a
sure way to shoot themselves in the foot. Many times I have purchased games
after renting them.

Eh well, not that they would ever be reading this but to all the big top
execs that support something like this ...

Take your multi million dollar salary and kiss my arse! Btw, you better save
what you have because you are going to drive your company into the ground with
more bootleg copies on the market.

 

Edit: The more restrictions you place on someone the greater their desire to break free from them.

Look at Spore with their DRM. Had to have been the most bootleg'd game ever in such a short span of time. Too many execs sitting around wondering why they are developing new games when they can still make money off their old crap...

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Tekzel

What makes them think they are entitled to a cut of a used game?  What makes them think they have the right to restrict resale? If I were to sell my old Chevy, is there any reason that Chevy can expect a cut of the sale?  Hell no, they got the original sale.  Some will argue that theres no actual degradation of the product with computer games, the used one is the same quality as the original, unlike a used car.  My question is, so freaking what?  Doesn't change the point in my opinon.

Now, if they just want to offer ADDITIONAL incentives to people who buy the new game. fine.  But limiting the playability of the used one until the user pays an extortion fee should be flat out illegal.

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sirphunkee

This is the same argument that has been played out ad nauseum, to no avail, many times in the past, with regards to the sale of used cassette tapes, vhs tapes, cd's, vinyl, etc etc.  In each of those cases, the recording/entertainment industry has managed to survive just fine while still allowing for the royalty-free sale of used media (like the used record/cd stores you'll find operating in every city)

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jcollins

I take it the beancounters are in charge.  "If we do this, we'll make tons of money now and get great bonuses".  Of course, they never think about the long term impact.  ie. their companies going out of business because they've lost all their customers.

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