Dell & Microsoft Gang Up Against Apple’s “Post PC World”

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Opterongeek

All of you guys who think the PC can do better than an iPad need to wake up.  The iPad is clearly a superior device.  Can your PC blend?  *facepalm*

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko  

 

 

;) 

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jagstangsrule

Can an iPad....

-Run Avid?

-Run Fruity Loops?

-Run Sony Vegas?

-Play 1080 12gig blu ray files on a 45" screen?

-Save terabytes of blu rays and FLAC high quality audio?

-Save information on hard drives running in RAID?

-Run Adobe Audition?

-Burn DVD's and Blu Rays?

-Run Daemon Tools?

-Run any video codec other than MP4, .MOV and AVI?

-Run a fully functioning office experience?

-Run flash fast enough to play quake?

-Record sounds or music generated by the computer or take screenshots?

-Or (and this is the important one) play Crysis?

And I'll give you a hint; the answer to all of these questions is the same one. Didn't know it was possible to buy a $600 frisby. But hey, some people just love throwing money around XD

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jagstangsrule

Behold, the ultimate power of the iPad!

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhTBqO26lN330P9CcD

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TerribleToaster

Just want to point out to those raving over "cloud storage". You can have storage on your PC that doubles as cloud storage

 

No, I'm serious. I have a PC, see, and I have it hooked up to the internet and hosting some files (that only I can access). I can then go online using a differnt device and access the files on my PC giving me the both the storage ability and relaibility of a PC and the accessiblity of the cloud.

I know it's a magical.

I call this totally orginal idea: using my PC as a server.

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Caboose

You sir, are a god among men! *bows before you*

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ShyLinuxGuy

It is admittable that iPads and other tablets are suitable for some, but not for many. Tablets don't have the power, screen size, capabilities or the right programs for the platform. The enterprise will mostly rely on desktops as we know them for a long time, because there's no suitable replacement. But for the Average Joe, laptops *and then* tablets will be the top choices, in that order. Why? Because the typical tablet isn't as flexible, powerful or competitive in price as a laptop, at least for now.

@Wolfy78: I like your explanation about servers. They can be PCs as we know them (x86), but not always (ARM, SPARC, Power PC, and other RISC platforms), and they shouldn't be used as a PC, or they're not being used as intended. Though I've broken that rule a couple of times =P

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Wolfy78

 

Are PCs dead?  No not yet.  But what everyone is forgetting is 2 major points.  A server is not necessarily a PC, and 10 years ago tablets were introduced but not in the same form we have today.  On the other end of the spectrum, I do not believe Desktops will ever truly die.  They will just get smaller and more compact.

Data centers are the back bone of the internet and are filled with severs.  Yes a PC can be a server but a server cannot be a PC, and fill the needs of the internet, which a tablet will never do.  So you do not need PCs to have the internet. Further more, 10 years ago tablets were introduced as bulky inaccurate touchscreens mainly used in the shipping and logistics markets, i.e. UPS and warehouses.  The had all the basic needs anyone needed and were basically a laptop, but 10 years ago Desktops still out sold laptops because they could still out perform a laptop in the everyday world.

Jumping to the future using the past as a reference.  Tablets have become smaller and more powerful in 10 years, servers have become smaller and more powerful in the past 50 years, and now you can get a desktop the size of a toaster that is more power and better at multitasking than the best gaming machine of the late '90s and early 2000's.  My point is a desktop may not be what we think it is today in 10 or 15 years.  Miniaturization has changed and still is changing our veiws of computers and always will.  Could not a desk top not be similar to Motorola’s Atrix today.  You bring your smartphone or tablet home hook it to a docking station that adds another 32 core processor, 32 TB of storage, keyboard, and larger screen, and we call that our desktop?

All of this is playing both sides of the spectrum and keeping an open mind.  Food for thought to keep us honest, lol.

 

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pcwizmtl

Until you can render HD video, play the latest game with all the eyecandy on and watch and HD movie on a tablet as fast or faster than a desktop can, the PC will not be dead... by the time tablets do this, the PC will still be faster

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yr

It's funny listening to this whole garbage marketing that the PC is dead. If there were no PC's, there would be no internet, no movies (which by now are almost exclusively made digitally), no games and hardly anything else. Without the PC you cannot make apps to run on the tablet. Movies (real ones, Hollywood doesn't make movies with ipads) cannot be made. Games cannot be created. Where would you store and view all of those pictures taken with your camera (and tablet, for that matter. With only 16-32GB, it'll fill up quick)

The PC is the center of computing. Some may not need it for much, but many need it as the base for content creation and storage.

Tablets are great for portable content viewing. That's it.

Each to his/her own, but don't expect too much from a fancy underpowered touch screen toy.

PS - This comment has been made possible by my PC :)

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codepath

I agree on all of your points regarding content creation. There is just one little nitpick regarding tablet storage and that is that the cloud will be the primary storage device for those things.

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big_montana

Why use the cloud for storage, when the 12TB of disk based storage in my DESKTOP computer are free to use? Why should I fork over my hard earned cash for 2GB of measley stroage from Dropbox (or %GB from Sugarsync) when I can get all I Want for free? Also, one thing Steve Jobs leaves out, you still need a PC to actiave his crapacular iPad, iPod, iPhone wit his craptastic iTunes. Seems like he has never heard of over the air activation, not to mention system backups as well. So the PC cannot be all that dead, as his toys rely on it so much for LIFE!

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Engelsstaub

Do you really think this is what Jobs meant, big_montana? Please scroll down to my previous comment for an explanation of the use of the expression "post-PC." Thanks.

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Blues22475

There is no "post-pc world". As soon as people stop forgetting that PC's are "tools" just like every other device out there, then we have a problem.

Instead of trying to say that X will take over the PC market, how about looking at one simple fact: your needs/requirements determine what kind device you need. If you want a gaming powerhouse, you're certainly not going to want an Ipad to fit that purpose. Furthermore, if you're just needing a device for quick communication of the web or quick reference look up period, an IPad will fit the bill better than actually lugging around a desktop. If you need something that has good performance yet is still portable, a Laptop isn't a bad way to go.

With the flood of new technology out there, it's easy to say the PC market is going to die (when in reality it's just down not out). I am never going to throw out my desktop PC for an Ipad/portable replacement. Instead of trying to promote a device as a "PC killer" they should promote it to serve the purpose of the user. Everyone has already pointed out that their needs fit a specific piece of hardware better than another in this comments section already.

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TerribleToaster

I'll take the middle groiund and call the PC a zombie. Being the living dead, I agree with both parties and thus can attend both after parties and get twice as many party favors.

 

But really, I share (and I can't believe I'm saying this) Michael Dell's view. The PC market is still growing, and as time goes on, the line between what is a PC and what is a tablet will blur (with the introduction of new products) to the point where any defined line is useless.

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pastorbob

I don't think anybody is missing the point. While performance is not the only thing that affects productivity, there are many users who would rank it far above mobility. I do 99% of my work from my desk. At any given time I have as many as six or more applications (Logos, MS Word, MS Powerpoint, IE 9 with 3 or 4 tabs, Foxit PDF reader, MS Outlook etc) open with documents or books displayed on my two  monitors. I have yet to see any tablet that could handle that load.

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DJSPIN80

What many of you fail to understand is that Jobs *does* have a point. The desktop may not be as dead as Jobs would have claimed it is, but the PC is losing prevalence in our increasingly mobile world.

For example, a many developers are switching out desktops for laptops for portability reasons.  In healthcare (where I work), we replaced several hundred dumb terminals (thin-client PC's) for iPads.  Why?  Because iPads can get the job done and it's far more portable.

The PC won't go away anytime soon but tablet computing will increase productivity.  My brother in law's company is going to replace laptops with iPads for the entire sales fleet because the iPad can function as a mobile platform and an electronic catalog (with real-time data).  Plus it looks cooler, and the overall cost of maintenance is lower.

You people are missing critical points in your argument.  Many of what I read relate only to performance, but performance isn't king and in the real world, productivity is everything.  If my iPad can do what my laptop can do (and it can, short of coding), why bother with a laptop that weighs a whole 2 lbs more?

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yu119995

"For example, a many developers are switching out desktops for laptops for portability reasons.  In healthcare (where I work), we replaced several hundred dumb terminals (thin-client PC's) for iPads.  Why?  Because iPads can get the job done and it's far more portable."

That's nice.  We just swapped out 200 lesser powered PC's for more powerful ones because we needed them.  Tablets weren't even remotely close to being capable of handling our demands.

"You people are missing critical points in your argument.  Many of what I read relate only to performance, but performance isn't king and in the real world, productivity is everything.  If my iPad can do what my laptop can do (and it can, short of coding), why bother with a laptop that weighs a whole 2 lbs more?"

We're not missing any points.  You're simply making obvious statements.  Of course you should be using what works for you.  Let me ask you something though: do you do any spreadsheet work or word processing on your iPad?  Here's why.  I'll guarantee that someone running a 14" laptop with a fully functioning keyboard will absolutely obliterate you when in comes to productivity.  There's no way typing on that screen is as efficient as a kb.  That's an irrefutable fact.  If you're going to throw in an attachable iPad kb well then you're simply defeating the intented purpose of the device, not to mention paying more for less.

If you're surfing, checking email, watching movies and maybe playing the odd game here and there, then by all means; drop the $600+.  I just wouldn't.  I'd drop $99-$149 though. ;)

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DJSPIN80

" Let me ask you something though: do you do any spreadsheet work or word processing on your iPad?  Here's why.  I'll guarantee that someone running a 14" laptop with a fully functioning keyboard will absolutely obliterate you when in comes to productivity. "

My iPad has a bluetooth keyboard that came with the case I bought it.  While I don't do spreadsheets on it, I do use it primarily for email - and I write LONG emails.  A good friend of mine uses it to remote into his servers at work via VPN (for maintenance stuff) and countless others who do use their iPads for other stuff.  Sure, someone with a 14" laptop can be productive, but I wouldn't want to carry a 14" laptop with me when my iPad allows me to VPN just about anywhere.

 

"If you're surfing, checking email, watching movies and maybe playing the odd game here and there, then by all means; drop the $600+.  I just wouldn't.  I'd drop $99-$149 though. ;)"

Sure, except that my $600 iPad has replaced my Macbook Pro for mundane tasks - including as my travel gadget.  We're beta testing iPads at the hospital I work in because having a windows terminal or desktop is just too cumbersome.  My iPad weighs less.  My iPad can do 90% of what my Macbook Pro can do. 

Oh, and with the increasing prevalence of mobility...cloud services/computing...who needs desktops?

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pastorbob

"Oh, and with the increasing prevalence of mobility...cloud services/computing...who needs desktops?"

Sure, as long as you have internet access and you are 100% certain that your data will always be available 100% of the time. However I prefer having access to my data and applications without being held hostage to the ebb and flow of the internet. And I do have multiple copies of all critical data so if one drive fails on one system I have three other ways to access my files. 8 tereabytes of hard drive space in three networked desktops still cost me much less than one ipad. And with a couple of exceptions, my hardware is all three years old or more yet I can still run circles around anybody who is using an ipad when it comes to productivity. Oh, and I custom built all of the systems and set up my network to suit my needs.

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pastorbob

Not every one needs the mobility of an ipad or similar device. And many developers and users need a lot more horsepower and graphics capabilites than what a tablet offers at this time. And it goes beyond just gamers. I could never do my job with just a tablet any more than I can do it productively with just a laptop. At any given moment while I am working I have several applications open at once and all of them are resource hungry. My main set of tools is a specialized program that would be useless on an ipad unless I was just doing a quick lookup. The nature of my work is made much easier and more "productive" by the ability to have two monitors in which to spread out the various books I am using. I can compare passages in different translations and also have related resources open and viewable at the same time.

That is not to say that tablets won't evolve to the point where they will serve my needs. Unlikely, but possible. And it will be several years before that happens. And Jobs' point was not that PC's will eventually be replaced. He pronounced them dead and offically replaced by the ipad.

Ipads and other tablets are useful and meet the needs of many users. They just aren't the "replace all" devices that Mr. Jobs has brainwashed mainsteam (non tech related) media into believing they are.

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roleki

Remember when the Walkman killed off the home stereo, and the Gameboy killed off consoles?

If you can get by using a tablet as a PC-replacement, more power to you.  They're extremely affordable, relative to the cost of a laptop or data kiosk.  For those reasons, we have tried to roll out iPads wherever possible, and it turns out, the only people that can use them are salespeople and shop floor leads - people to whom their iPad is only a recording device for their productivity generated offline by other means.  

We're not in the 'Post-PC' era.  We just have another class of device to play with. 

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pastorbob

That is right!

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Engelsstaub

I own two laptops and an iDevice. I've really no current need for a desktop. This is not to say that they have been rendered useless by tablets and such. People will use what they feel best fits their wants and needs. Many here would understandably want a desktop because they are gamers. Others would argue for it because they are professionals. Still others would have a desktop for no other reason than it's what they like. ...all valid reasons.

Would I be mistaken in that the laptop generally outsells the desktop for personal use? "Suitable for some" is an assessment not too far off the mark, IMO. Post-PC does not mean "PC is dead or obsolete." We are in the "post-PC" era in the sense that we are in an era wherein many products now supplement the PC and do many of the tasks once only done by the PC. I can say we live in a "post-print" world and people wouldn't take that to mean that books and newspapers are now useless. They've been supplemented, not supplanted, by digital print. Paper-print was the prior standard though with little to no alternative. It remains the standard in spite of the advent of tablets and e-readers.

All of these reactionary whack-jobs wouldn't so completely miss the point if they knew a goddamned thing about language. Maybe we need to teach Latin in the schools once again.

I also read the links to Dell and MS's blogs in which you referred. Where is this debate you speak of? There is no mention at all of Apple, Jobs' somewhat interesting comparison of the PC to a truck (maybe a machine that does the hard work and heavy lifting?,) or any other imaginary war inside the heads of so many writers at Maximum PC. Why does Apple continue to market the MacPro if they envision a Post-PC world as a No-PC world? Why did they just upgrade the iMac line?? I get that Max PC has an anti-Apple agenda. Cool. Be the Fox News of tech-reporting; it's your prerogative. Please stop making shit up and, for the love of life, get a grip on yourselves and the the use of expressions like "post-PC."

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codepath

You just said that being the Fox News of tech-reporting was their prerogative. Well, um, isn't making shit up the definition of "Fox News reporting?"

But while I do not see that MPC has taken anything out of context (given the way that the mainstream media has decided to interpret Jobs reference to "post-PC"), I do see your point about what Jobs meant regarding is "post-PC" reference.

Steve Jobs is a massive tool, but the first time I read his use of the phrase "post-PC era", I took it as analogous to your example of "post-print". Clearly, the main body of textual deleviery is headed to digital. Just look at the demise of Borders, the Kindle/Nook war, Amazon's eBook sales stomping print books, etc.

But MPC is correct in that the mainstream (read: tech illiterate) media has incorrectly used it as a declaration of the end of the PC platform (which I will bet that they all used PCs to do so).

I think the reason is that the TV media is fast approaching the same problem that print media (newspaper in particular) faced. People just are not going there for news anymore. They are going to the Internet for current events. Therefore they have to make everything bigger than it really is to get attention. Like a bunch of 5 years olds. No, wait, a better analogy is that they all have "middle child syndrome." 

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Engelsstaub

Fair enough.

...but the fact remains that the title of this article, and indeed the article itself, refers to "Apple's Post PC World." It also refers to Dell and MS ganging up against it. I saw no reference to Apple in the referenced blog from Michael Dell or Microsoft. That just leads me to the same conclusion as I've stated on this site so many times before: it's all a fanboi war in the heads of grown men disguised as genuine journos.

They don't attack the press's idiotic interpretation of post PC, they attack Apple. Which means the staff here was too stupid to get it as well. ...and it just reiterates ad nauseam their pathetic agenda.

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Dartht33bagger

I'll be using a desktop until the day I die.  They'll have to pry my desktop from my cold, dead hands.

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h e x e n

Here are some words of wisdom from a much older gentleman than myself.

"The ipad has no purpose. What I mean is, they have no specific use. Every apple device that hits the shelves boasts features that are already commonplace on other devices. What Apple does, is it creates a niche for its own products, and then markets the hell out of the niche. Most anything you can do with a tablet, you can do with a smartphone or laptop. Was there really a need to meet inbetween with this "tablet" computing? Obviously, because people are dumb enough to buy them, all of them thinking they fall into that little niche."

-unkown

Immortal words.

Post PC world hahaha. I'm going to have to go with that one short rant vid of Gordon on this one.

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Neel Chauhan

Tablets can't replace desktops because they aren't able to become as fast. A NVIDIA Tegra chip in a tablet is on par with a 1.5GHz AMD Athlon or Pentium 4 with a Geforce3 (or ATI's competitor card with a naming scheme which is hard to rememember).


One thing I hate about tablets is that there is no keyboard, and another thing is that every program runs at full screen. Computers let you run programs in windowed mode if you want two windows open at once, and PCs are faster. Can you fit a 2600k and a GTX590 in a tablet?


While Steve Jobs is making money to own 1 million sports cars he is affecting technology in our lives. He is making Flash obsolete my making everyone know HTML5. Every website still uses flash. My dad said I should learn HTML5 but see how hard it can get coding objects by hand, drawing objects using Flash is much easier.


And Apple can't make us stop watching movies.

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Marthian

pfft, they probably will fit a 2600k and gtx 590 in a tablet one day. However, at that day, there will already be a i11 7900k and GTX 890 (no idea how naming schemes will be, but still...)

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soccerkevin11

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michaelsonline

Home PC market is driven by games.
Mac lost the PC war via gaming, their idea of computing now includes dumbing down the pc, who needs access to a file system - ios for everyone.
Free flash games become popular as paid games on ios.
No matter how much crapple spends on marketing the PC is hardly disappearing.

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kiaghi7

The ipad isn't a "post PC" device, because it -IS- a PC... A lobotomized one, but it is still a PC...

 

The fact that they would pretend like it isn't is what's pathetic, Apple still can't accept that they lost the war... And hard...

 

There are no Apple computers! There hasn't been an Apple computer in nearly a decade because Apple doesn't make hardware like that anymore, BECAUSE THEY LOST THE WAR. They are now nothing but PC's with an Apple Operating System... And apple is STILL losing to Linux, much less the some 95% market share of M$...

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Holly Golightly

I love my desktop, and will never give up on it. It is the device I use to overclock so I can play my games at maximum settings. Laptops nor tablets can give me the graphical power I so enjoy. That is not to say that laptops and tablets are useless... But I am hardly on the go. I am at home most of the time.

With that said, I think that tablets and desktops make great companions. To me, laptops are useless only because tablets have a longer battery life, and desktops have all the power I need without the limitations that the laptops place on performance and battery life.

I will continue to use my desktop, and will always buy more and more upgrades. Tablets are the go to device while on the go. You can not really use a laptop while on the go, you still have to be stationed to use a laptop, much like a desktop... Making laptops rather limited and useless in my opinion.

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thetechchild

Any idiot can see that as long as our best hardware (i.e. 8-core 3GHz+ processors and high-end GFX cards) is not quite mobile (i.e. much more expensive, or even unavailable, on a laptop), then we will continue to have a form factor that contains our best hardware. Traditional PCs are just better in almost every way in terms of productivity, speed, and cost.

Moreoever, their can't be a "death" of traditional PCs, because they're already far too widespread. Even if every single PC manufacturer stopped pushing out PCs at this very moment, millions of them are already up and running across the globe. Unless some catastrophe occurs that instantaneously renders 100s of millions of PCs useless, while leaving tablets and smartphones intact, then PCs will survive for decades (centuries?) to come.

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Marthian

What post PC era? Do those idiots realize that a keyboard (And those boxes of sheer processing power) can easily be recreated in a kid's book-sized device?

Granted, maybe desktops may no longer be the norm to some people due to filling their needs of browsing the internet, but desktops will still be relevant in:

- Work environments/typing (try typing a 5 page essay on a tablet, probably a pain in the rear to do so.)

- 3D rendering (well obviously, you have to make those 3D apps somewhere, and besides that, try making a 3d movie or playing hardcore games on something besides a tablet)

- Programming (similar to typing.)

- Processing Power (when they fit a i6 2600k in a tablet, I bet we'll be on some advanced cpu technology already.)

It's quite a bit of those reasons I'll take a laptop over a tablet any day, and it's sure as hell not replacing my desktop.

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