AMD Demos DX11 Hardware Running at QuakeCon

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gendoikari1

Radeon HD 5890X2 or GeForce GTX 395?

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kiaghi7

The new "RadeForce Eleven-Teen UberROXORZ!"

 

So powerful it finishes the game before it's even released!

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gendoikari1

Or, Larrabee. Intel has been keeping mum about it, but we want details. Will it be better than integrated graphics (probably not)?

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Spider-Mom

These coments about the new AMD video card being to slow to play DX11 games when they come out are absoultly moronic. The 8800GTX played games that were new at the same time it was way faster than any thing else even if they didnt use DX10, its years old now and still plays new games just fine. I think any one stupid enough to think the first round of DX11 cards wont play any DX11 games need to take a huge step back and look at where the hard ware to game demand curv is rite now. Because chanse are there wont be anything that can really push this new thing or even the best curent cards for quite a while out side of some thing with crappy programming like Crysis.

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MeTo

If new video cards are so fast then tell me why they have SLI/cross fire. 1 video card can't cut it anymore. DX 10 DX 10.1 and DX 11 are just to slow delivering the pay load. Sure they look good but when you crank up the quality they get all herky jerky. You should read some benchmarks and see where your 8800 gtx stands at best they are middle of the road now.

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Muerte

SLI was never strictly necessary.  It was a different way to do things and then a good way to sell video cards. 

I'm still using my 8800 and don't have any issues, other than nvidia is screwing up their drivers.

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MeTo

Try running a game any modern one above 1680x1050 and you will see why you need two video cards.

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Spider-Mom

this is LOL funny man. Why do we have SLI, uhh, i can tell whats NOT why, not because games need it. Get real.

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MeTo

Turn up the graphics past 1680x1050 and turn on all the goodies and you will see.

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scythe123100

I actually got into the AMD Suite as an enthusiast, and I just want to say that DX 11 is beutiful. you can check my twitter @scythe123100 for a link to some photos I took there. trust me, this is gonna be great.

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MeTo

I wont waste my time and money. It takes game makers two years to come out with a title that is wrote to take advantage Direct X 11 and it will run DOG slow. When they first come out they will just be Direct X 10 with a few aspects of Direct X 11. "History always repeats its self".

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LatiosXT

This is all just for the sake of PR and wooing tech unsavy investors into pouring more money into their business. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if AMD adopts a "Gesnsis does what Nintendon't" attitude over NVIDIA.

Oh and to feed the fanboys.

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kiaghi7

AMD/ATi constantly pounding the drum of DX11 is the answer to a question that NOBODY ASKED...

 

For heaven's sake, Dx10 is still barely even starting its baby steps in game adoption rate, and there is NO console that can even dream of doing what Dx10 can do with ease. Dx10.1 is just fixing what M$ screwed up with Dx10 by carving out everything that made it truly necessary to use Windows Vista compared to Dx9.0c on an XP platform. The differences were kneecapped at the whines and "requests" (pronounced: Demands) of the graphics card manufacturers, namely Nvidia and ATi, but Matrox, Intel and others were just as guilty.

 

Direct X 11 is already out, as of July 22, and there is ONE GAME, let me repeat that... ONE GAME that -could theoretically-, take advantage of it, and that's BattleForge (which is mediocre at best by any measure), and it doesn't even need Dx11. Over the next two years, there are currently only five games even acknowledge as being developed with Dx11 in mind, that does NOT mean they even make good use of it, they will just be compatible.

 

Fans of both sides of the graphics card war need to come to the realization that both companies need to get their heads out of their behinds and make cards that are better, not that are little more than a gimmick.

 

Let's just say you DO get a Dx11 card, and it's the most uber-awesometastic fudge ripple card on the market, easily twice as powerful as anything else that can be fielded, and it only cost you a dollar... It doesn't matter, because by the time you can actually make use of the Dx11 to any concequence, it will be at the very least a year old, if not two or even more, and at that point it will be hopelessly antiquated by the -then- standard that it won't be any use for the games coming out that do use Dx11 more commonly.

 

Don't buy hype, this past generation of cards I was routing for AMD/ATi as they flogged the DDR4 and DDR5 as if it were a miracle, but I forsaw they would still get their asses handed to them because they went with an outdated 256 bit architecture. Nvidia kept with DDR3 on a 512 bit architecture and was able to achieve more. The costs of the cards is what AMD/ATi is laser focused on to try and grasp the midrange market share it so desperately needs to maintain viability, but it's loosing credibility by making jackass decisions by chasing after technologies that haven't yet matured. The next generation of cards may very well see universal adoption of newer DDR, but the 256 bit architecture has gone just about as far as that horse can ride and AMD/ATi proved it.

 

Both sides have shown you can do the same job in very different ways, and still achieve the same desired results, but the quality of the means to the end results and more importantly the capability of the method of achieving those means may differ. Nvidia needs a bloody nose to force them to be more competitive, and while the constant fighting between Nvidia and Intel could be used to AMD/ATi's advantage, the imbeciles never exploit it. What I call "IntVidia" isn't likely to happen (any time soon) with all the bad blood between the two companies, even though they do occasionally decide to play nicely all the while they are plotting to cut into the other's markets for their own interests. So if AMD/ATi have been secretly planning a secret weapon for a new generation to shake up the market, it's about darn time they put it out, they've already lost an entire year (going strong on TWO) to IntVidia architecture combinations, most especially on the CPU front, their only tenative grasp remains on GPU's where they are trailing but might be able to make a come back if they don't screw it up as bad in the coming year as they did in 2008-2009.

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pratt

Fiscally, ATi has been drastically more profitable than nVidia cards this generation and it has nothing to do with performance or outselling nVidia cards. It all has to do with the price of their components. ATi HD 4000 cards are drastically cheaper to make compared to nVidia GTX 200 cards. I honestly don't think nVidia is even making any sort of substantial profit off of the GTX series. This is one of the reasons why you see nVidia exclusive partners jumping ship and crossing over into ATi (XFX for example) because nVidia is squeezing their pennies together pretty tough and making it very hard for their board partners to make any sort of profit.

Yes, nVidia has the faster card, but ATi made the more profitible card. And before you trounce GDDR5 as a gimmick, look at the numbers and you'll see that nVidia and ATi achieved almost identical bandwidth numbers using two different strategies. It just so happens that nVidia's cost them a bundle more money to implement. The reason ATi used a 256-bit frame buffer over a 512 is because of cost and saving space on the PCB. If they went with a 512-bit frame buffer, it's obvious that bandwidth would have gone much much higher but my educated guess as to why they didn't is because their GPU couldn't take advantage of the added bandwidth and it would have been wasted money.

And besides, next generation, you're going to see nVidia try to use GDDR5 so I don't know why you're trying to downplay it's effectiveness as a technology.

Fiscally, ATi didn't screw a single thing up. They sold a ton of cards and were extremely competitive with nVidia and forced nVidia to create several cards they otherwise wouldn't have like the GTX 260 216 core and the GTX 275. Also for aproximately 6 months ATi had the fastest single card solution in the HD 4870 X2 until nVidia came out with the GTX295 so you can hardly say that wasn't successful to deny your competition of the high end for half a year.

In the end nVidia's strategy forced them to lose money on each card through manufacturing costs and poor yields whereas ATi's strategy made decent amounts of money on each card thanks to low manufacturing cost and high yields.

Performance is nice for the consumer, but as far as investment and financials are concerned, who makes the better, cheaper card wins which just so happend to be ATi.

 

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kiaghi7

Fiscally, AMD/ATi is also hemmoraging market share because they took the wrong path, and the market shows that. Profitability per unit is great, but you still have to move them to make that profit. It's akin to the adage "sure I lose $100 per sale, but I make up for it in volume"... AMD/ATi isn't losing money on each unit, but they aren't moving the units to hold their ground, so while they are a more cost efficient card, they are not a more capable nor market saturating card.

 

As for DDR5, I am in no way down playing it, I'm pointing out AMD/ATi's colossal blunder by pouring money on a techology that simply wasn't "there yet", all in order to say "we got there first", just like with Dx11 cards. It will not give them more viability when they only get their by cutting their own throat with an out-moded architecture. You herrald what they did, but leave out that they had to take a step backwards in architecture in order to make a half hearted effort to take a step forward. By all means tell us where one is when they take a step forward and a step backwards... Nvidia, who I am not championing nor defending mind you, took an already proven and current technology of DDR3, and simply took a step forward to a 512 bit architecture, and with it demonstrated that a newer form of DDR can readily be outclassed and out performed by using it BETTER.

 

Next generation may very well be uniformly DDR5, and I welcome it. Both sides should always be pushing the envelope to ensure that the market doesn't stagnate on outdated ideas. But you can't say that today's colossal blunder is excused because tomorrow other people will be using the same memory, that in no way allieviates the fact that AMD/ATi's first foray into the DDR5 game proved less effective because the capability of the memory was kneecapped by the developer.

 

As for screw ups, you again fall back to "fiscally" they didn't screw up, which quite literally means that they were able to remain profitable... Not screwing up fiscally, and actually screwing up in epic fashion as far as competitive and practical market share are not one in the same. AMD/ATi shot low, and hit their target, holding onto a place in the midrange market which is what they wanted, but as far as market share they are hemmoraging from practical blunders that could have been avoided.

 

With card specifics, one could just as easily turn the coin on the other side and point out that AMD/ATi's 4870 X2 card was created solely so that they would have something on par with the GTX280, and AMD/ATi's only means of doing that was to use two chipsets on one card to compete with one. In fact, not just one said that, the majority of the market did and agreed with the point, hence the shift.

 

As to the winner... The one that makes the most money is the winner, end of discussion... AMD/ATi stock has fallen nearly 50% in the last year from it's 52 week high of 6.47 per share down to 3.69 now, even with the massive infusion of external funds they keep pumping in, and it hasn't done anything to slow the bleeding, if anything it seems to be accelerating as they run out of options. They can't afford to launch the next generation of cards yet, but if they don't the downward spiral will only speed up. Over the last year, Nvidia has lost less than 10% of its stock value (52 week high of 14.23 down to 13.36 now) because not only has it expanded its hold on the graphics card market, but it's demonstrated that it's got a technological lead when all it needs to do is carry over its already developed architecture to a new generation of cards, meanwhile AMD/ATi -still- hasn't been able to return the salvo, and all the while another is being loaded.

 

On top of that, AMD/ATi is being attacked on another front by Intel, who's Core2 payload was dropped like a bomb right at AMD/ATi's feet and they had nothing even close to compare with it... And as the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend... Intel and Nvidia, though squabbling with eachother as they love to do, also do quite well together when it comes to tag-teaming AMD/ATi, and beating it like a rented mule. Intel already has at least a year and a half lead, and with Nehalem looming large on the horizon like a pending eclipse, AMD/ATi's only answer is the same thing they brought to the dance last time, repackaged as a product that it really isn't.

 

I want AMD/ATi to resurge, and I want them to come up with something game-changing. I want Intel to be shaken to the core by something so unprecidented that it alters the very way the two companies compete for the CPU market. On that same note, AMD/ATi also needs to ratchet up their GPU technological advances to something other than next generation memory with a last generation architecture because they don't know how to implement 512 bits (yet). Nvidia chose to make the steep investment now, knowing that the investment would translate into future capability, AMD/ATi stubbornly decided to try and take the next step without even taking advantage of it, but rather decapitating its potential before it was even realized from the concept.

 

If you're going to be a blind fan boy, you're going to have to learn the subject a hell of a lot better than what propaganda you've lapped up from the regurgitated nonsense other fan boys have fed you. The current situation is completely untennable to both sides, as such Nvidia will become lacksidasical, while AMD/ATi flails and potentially makes even more dire mistakes in the generation to come in an effort to regain lost territory. It is only when both are complimentary to one another that progress and true competition arises.

 

Route for both sides when they do well, and deride either when they mess up, but most importantly be intellectually honest about the situation to yourself, because you won't fool anyone else...

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pratt

Interesting that you automatically label me a fanboy for saying facts about a situation that shines a negitive light against nVidia.

I sort of read over what you said and have no real idea why you brought up some of the things you said and a lot of it made no sense what-so-ever. I will say this, both ATi and nVidia stock have dropped, ATi's is more because they are coupled with AMD but nVidia's has dropped due to their warranty fiasco costing them millions.

There's honestly no real point to arguing with you because I kinda have better things to do than write a novel on here and break down the numbers for you. I will say though that the money doesn't lie. If you are building graphics cards at a loss and selling them for a loss, you still aren't making any monrey (nVidia). But if you are building graphics cards cheap, and selling them at a profit, you are making money (ATi). nVidia's year-to-year earnings have dropped substantially. I am unaware of ATi's year-to-year earnings so I won't make an assumption although I would assume it isn't plummiting at the same rate as nVidia's.

That's really all I was saying.

And BTW: I've owned eight nVidia powered systems in the past and one ATi powered system with all of them using Intel processors. Numbers say I'm biased against ATi/AMD but really, I don't care. I buy what card I feel is the best overall purchase and right now, I'm quite pleased with the quality of my ATi graphics card although I have always been pleased with my previous nVidia cards (all except for the FX series. Should have gotten a Radeon 9800). It just so happens this generation I felt like giving ATi a try and I have been pleasantly surprised by their price and performance.

PAX

-Pratt

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kiaghi7

"Interesting that you automatically label me a fanboy for saying facts
about a situation that shines a negitive light against nVidia."

 

No, you're a fanboy because you pretend like AMD/ATi made ground, when in fact they've taken the largest collective blow since 3dfx made a comparably infamous blunder and lost their grip on the market.

 

"I sort of read over what you said and have no real idea why you brought
up some of the things you said and a lot of it made no sense
what-so-ever."

 

In other words, you couldn't follow along... no shame in that... The things I pointed out are the facts of the matter, sans the skewed view. If AMD/ATi would stop gold bricking, they could do so much more, but their eternal zen for settling for second best is their own worst enemy. Indeed ATi's weakness is AMD's stupidity, but given that they are one in the same, one can't excuse the other for the failures of the first. Nvidia's losing money filling their warranty obligations is far less vexing however, particularly in the light that it shows they will back their product. In the end, the numbers tell the tale, and what's been little more than a stumble for Nvidia in the last year has been a flying leap off a mountain for AMD/ATi as they are losing on all fronts. Meanwhile both of their key rivals are purposefully expanding into ever more and lucrative markets with either a feeble answer from the opposition, if any at all...

 

 "There's honestly no real point to arguing with you because I kinda have
better things to do than write a novel on here and break down the
numbers for you."

 

Uh huh... by all means, break down the numbers I had to teach you, I'm intrigued...

 

"I will say though that the money doesn't lie. If you are building
graphics cards at a loss and selling them for a loss, you still aren't
making any monrey (nVidia)."

 

Well... let's see here... Nvidia, long time publicly held company, thus their records are also public, and look at that, they are doing peachy hardly shuddering in the last year, meanwhile AMD/ATi has taken a sledge hammer to the face in the last 52 weeks... How are those numbers doing for you? Maybe you could explain them in some other way that shows AMD/ATi not getting knee-capped... Money may not lie, but you seem awfully eager to lie to yourself.

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pratt

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/14828/65/

nVidia market share down 1.9%, ATi market share up 1.3%

nVidia shipments rising slowly at 23.6%, ATi shipments rising rapidly at 41.5%

Want to continue calling me a fanboy and a lier? I just quoted the numbers for you. Go sit and spin on them.

And for the record, you didn't quote a single number and half the stuff you said you're just talking out of your ass about. Don't know what your problem is but whatever, have fun with yourself I'm not wasting my time on you anymore.

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Modred189

DX11 is going to be nice, no two ways around it, but lets be honest, when do you think the first DX11 games will hit? I mean DX10 usage is still extremely low among new games, and DX10.1 is nearly non-existent. 

I'd say that Nvidia can wait to get it right, but they had better have a DX11 flagship and midlevel card available when that first DX11 title hits. 

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majorsuave

Remember dx 10 cards?

AMD had a promising lead with the new XBOX GPU being as close as you can get to DX10 and Nvidia came out of nowhere during the first week of November and hit us all on the head with the 8000 GPUs.

 They were supposedly months from launch and had no clear plans announced.

 Don't count 'em out yet. 

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DBsantos77

AMD better not screw this up.

And 

GO NVIDIA, BECAUSE THE MORE YOU GUYS FIGHT THE LESS MONEY WE SPEND! WOOOT!

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