Amazon Still Running From State Sales Tax, Tennessee Facility Threatened

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Styx

Amazon Come to New Hampshire, we will love your jobs and will not charge state sales or an income tax of your workers.

 

 

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Styx

Oh my first post is a double post.  Sorry.  Where is the delete. 

 

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mkhokoana

For us folks in Hawaii - AMAZON is a AMAZING!, Free shipping supports local business and local families.  So quiet frankly, I don't give a damm about SC or TENN.  I only care about what happens to me and my family, competition brings the best out of everyone.  If you don't like AMAZON don't buy the product or service, if you like AMAZON continue to support the Product - Its just like voting, the more votes you give to a politicion long they stay in power!  Like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, I hate them but it seems that San Fran and AZ love them so be it!  I can't and didn't vote for them to so go figure.  But I enjoy shopping AMAZON and other Online retailers for the convience of being in the middle of the ocean!  And I don't want to pay into some one elses TAX system when I am already getting raped by my city, county, state and federal government.  So if i you think its about GREED then don't shop from them, but you know what I bet you shop for them - and you don't buy the item that cost the most from your choices, you buy the free shipping saver or the lowest priced item with shipping, haha to funny-

Anyways, Forum Troll, love reading the Rants!  makes work fun!

d(o.0)b

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Kano

I love Amazon's deals. NO state taxes for them!

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kagai

A shipping facility does not equal a store.

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kiaghi7

Indeed, however when the buyer of an item, and the source of that item are within the same state, the purchase made by a resident of that state, within that state, is taxable.

 

If the two are to be separated, then why not do so with Walmarts across the country??? You buy whatever it is you like, but rather than walking out the door with it, tell them you want it shipped to you... Then you, by your faulty reasoning, would not have to pay any sales tax, since it is acting as a shipping facility rather than a store.

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skywyze

State and local governments always use tax breaks to lure businesses to the area to create jobs.  This in turn creates a higher tax revenue stream (from the employees, not the business itself).  If governments start making these deals and then not abiding by the terms, I see no reason for the companies to stay in the area.

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m31337

Most (possibly all) states that have a sales tax include a line on your tax return form for you to enter the total value of items you purchased without paying sales tax i.e. online or from a different state so that you can pay the approriate sales tax on it. So if you ever bought something online and left that line blank on your return you are mostly likely in violation of state law.

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stevinp

I read the posts, and I guess a lot of people just don't get it.  If you have a brick and mortar business in a state; you collect sales taxes on items you sell to people in that state.  That is not an internet sales tax. (And Congress read our lips; "no internet sales taxes")  Amazon is not being asked to do anything all the other businesses in the state are not already doing.  So they might have to hire a few more people to collect the taxes, boo hoo.  They are benefitting from getting a distribution center to ship merchandise faster to the prospective customers in other states.  Amazon doesn't want a level playing field, they just want to line their pockets.  Frankly I can see all the other brick and mortar businesses filing a class action lawsuit against the state if they allowed and exception for Amazon.

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Dynotaku

The problem is that local businesses can't compete with Amazon. Sure TN looses 1400 jobs, but how many jobs are lost and how much revenue is lost in sales tax everytime a Borders or B&N has to close thier doors? All companies need to compete on a level playing field otherwise local retailers will go out of business and all that will be left is internet monopolies. I don't want to buy a TV without seeing it first and eventually Newegg and Amazon will run Best Buy out of business if an internet sales tax isn't implemented. 

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warptek2010

I would pull out too. Good for Amazon. govt. beuaracracies suck. Don't they know they've already cost us jobs, themselves revenue and they still continue to do the very things that make it worse for us and them. Just plain stupid.

 

It's high time fed,state and locals get this simple truth into their heads. Whatever they try to put an oppresive tax on, people will change their behaviour accordingly. It's really that simple. 

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thechipper

I think a large number of you are missing a key point. They could have gone elsewhere. They chose a spot based on a deal they were promised. I would be angry and fight back too if that was the deal I mad and you had gone back on it. Realistically people there should be happy that there are jobs for the some 1400 workers in an otherwise hurt economy. If people continually lash out at issues like this everything down to your shipping will be outsourced to foreign companies and you will indeed go bankrupt. 

 

Sales tax is BS. :d

 

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Carlidan

I know, they are a bunch of whiny people. Even though the state has to get taxes from somewhere. So they'll probably take it from them.

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kiaghi7

This is really quite simple...

 

Amazon is a tax dodger, they are NOT doing it for the customer, don't you dare even suggest that, this is all about bottom line and shipping distances for them to cut costs, and if they can illegally circumvent tax law, all the better in their mind.

 

Just like in S.C. recently, they were offered and ACCEPTED all sorts of cushy kick-backs that no South Carolinian business gets, but Amazon was the one that reneged and turned around insisting immunity from S.C. state sales tax.

 

Every business in S.C. has to collect sales tax from anyone buying something in South Carolina, why is Amazon any different?

 

Every business person in S.C. would have to pay sales tax, BUT Amazon? That's awfully akin to favoritism (since that's precisely what it is) and is HIGHLY illegal.

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roninnder

Highly illegal eh? OK Mr. Lawyer, which laws does favoritism violate?

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kiaghi7

anti-competitive practices, by all means go ask the SEC how they feel about government favoritism...

 

If you want to be a smartypants, you first have to be smart. Ask AT&T or Microsoft how the government feels about such practices...

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sgo823

I order from the Internet only when I can pay no shipping or no sales tax so I applaud Amazon's resolve.

Let's face it when Amazon is selling/shipping there are other transactions taking place because of it. Shipping, employment, utilities being paid, property taxes being paid, etc. So the community is still gaining from their presence. These tax-and-spend governments are just going to have to learn how to run efficiently on a budget and quit gouging the people at every turn. Sheeeesh!

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kiaghi7

Leaving the inherent incompetence of government out of the equation;

 

How exactly is it even remotely competitive (i.e. non-monopolistic) to force all of their potential competition to collect and pay sales tax, while they do not?

How is it even legal to require of all other businesses the collection and payment of sales tax from their customers, and yet Amazon is immune from this? That's collusion on the part of the government allowing it, and anti-competitive practices on the part of Amazon, illegal is illegal for a reason.

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warptek2010

How exactly, is it remotely competitive to tax and regulate every thing under the sun? In the interest of 'fairness' I order from an internet business to save a few bucks so I can save it for my family, but no that isn't fair to you since "Poppa govt" is losing revenue.

So I guess that because of this country's insane tax and regulation policies, having shipped a million jobs overseas is NOT enough for you? Perhaps you'd like to ship out a million more? You ever hear of the word 'Incentive'? Company A is looking for a location to build a plant. Here you come and start dictating to company A all the terms and conditions it has to comply with. Company A starts bowing at your feet and kissing your tuckus? Are u out of your mind? Same behaviour applies to individuals. You work hard to earn your money so you will be spending it wisely. What is mssing here is govt studies on their destructive tax and regulation policies but that will never happen because they are mostly idiots beholden to some debunked system like Keysian economics and mostly beholden to dumb as nails liberal groups.

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Carlidan

And I love how conservatives groups like to use child labor. And Eurpeon countries have way more regulaltions than us, and they are doing pretty good. Not great. But good.

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warptek2010

Ah, I see... only conservative run businesses rely on cheap labor. I guess you never heard of Microsoft, Apple, and all the upscale designer lib businesses that have facilities in other countries. Idiot.

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Carlidan

So let me get this Microsoft and Apple Are liberal buisness or upscale designer buisness are too. So what are conservative business? Didn't know you can distinguish a buisness to a politocal party? I think running any buisness using child labor is wrong. And your an idiot if you think child labor is just fine to do as everyday business practice.

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Carlidan

So your saying that other contries dont have regulations polices that they have to adhere? Or taxes they must pay to that country. Guess what they do. The only reason they like to bring jobs oversees is because it's cheaper to pay for cheap labor. Nothing more. And when their done with using slave labor they don't need to worry about any consequences to them. Just pack and leave. There was an bill democrats were trying to pass that would give an "incentive" for corporations to hire people here, but guess what they shot that one down. Wonder why?

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roninnder

OK, I see the problem. You're getting the words "illegal" and "unfair" confused. You're complaining about things that are unfair, not illegal. Didn't your parents ever teach you that life isn't fair?

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kiaghi7

ahhh, I get it, you don't know anything about anything, so you want to troll since you don't understand the legalities of business...

 

You see, non-competitive business practices is exceedingly illegal, and the SEC routinely sues or breaks up large corporations in order to divest such activity. Ask AT&T or Microsoft about it.

 

If you don't know what you're talking about, then stop talking.

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kris79

Kiaghi. Dude! It's inconceivable that these guys aren't lawyered up to the max with lots of people who know a hell of a lot more about the law than you do. Perhaps YOU just don't get it. Get it?

Why don't you take a few minutes from pontificating and read the business rules at Amazon so that you can see what it is that they really do for the various businesses that they provide advertising for. This whole sales tax scheme is just to make it easy for the States to outsource their tax collection to Amazon.  Amazon don't play that... Instead, take that middle finger and wave all those jobs goodbye... Anyone speak Chinese?

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kiaghi7

Wow... just... Wow...

 

They are trying to have additional distribution centers in the U.S. to shorten shipping distance and arrival times, are you so uninformed that you actually think they are going to make a distribution center in China to serve U.S. clientele?

 

The simple fact of the matter is that the ones arguing don't know what they are talking about, and are "hooray for Amazon" while ignoring the law that everyone else has to follow. I have no beef with Amazon what so ever, they could be -ANY- company or organization, and if they are going to try and illegally coheres the state with glorified extortion that they not have to collect and convey sales tax to the state for residents of that state, then they are in the wrong.

Books a million or Barnes and Noble have to collect and relay sales tax for purchases in their stores for anyone in that state buying anything from that store, it is no different for someone from Tennessee buying something from Amazon in Tennessee, to have to pay the required taxes on it.

 

As to them, presumably Amazon, being "lawyered up", I have no doubt that they are, but lawyers on retainer in no way changes the laws in question. Al Capone had lawyers too, and the thing he went to jail for was TAX EVASION.

 

Having a lawyer does not make what you're doing, or attempting to do, legal... Benjamin Franklin got it right when he said: "It is the innocent who need lawyers, the guilty may lie for themselves."

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kris79

Paraphrasing someone a lot smarter than I - "You simply know so much that isn't so." Let me do the work for everyone who is too lazy to go to the Amazon website and read the clear instructions to the RETAILERS who sell their products through Amazon. I quote:

  1. Customer charges. Your listing will include all applicable charges and taxes (including VAT, customs duty, excise taxes, etc. as applicable). You will provide VAT invoices to the customer upon the customer's request, if applicable.
  2. Taxes. You are solely responsible for determining whether any taxes apply, accounting for any taxes due, and for Intrastat reporting to the appropriate tax authority. You are responsible for meeting any VAT obligations that apply, including VAT obligations in the Amazon marketplace website location, the country to which you are delivery your products, or other applicable countries.
  3. Your Selling on Amazon Agreement. You will, at all times, comply with the terms and conditions of the Amazon Services Business Solutions Agreement.

So tell me again why Amazon must pay everyone's taxes that they alone are already responsible for in every state in the United States as well as several other countries that sell through a US affiliate? My reference to Chinese was, I thought, a clear rebuff to your statement about stop talking if you don't know what you're talking about. But then, English isn't my first language. You made my point perfectly. Thanks...

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Carlidan

No one is saying amazon must pay for everyones taxes. They want Amazon to collect the taxes from the reseller business rather relying on their retailers to do it. 

 

 

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Edwincnelson

TN has no income tax as was mentioned before. Amazon is pushing this so publicly because logistically they really wanted this facility. Amazon requires facilities located stratigically across the various regions to be able to provide cheap, reliable shipping, especially during the winter when bad weather can bog down orders. TN has the infrastructure, location, and workforce to make this work. Over the last couple of years Amazon has found Illinois, North and South Carolina, Texas, Colorado, California and now Tennesee off their map. If you are a company that advertises fast, cheap shipping having your warehouses located in Idaho and Mississippi probably isn't going to cut it.

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Mustang07

This article is about sales tax collection. They dont want to have to charge TN residents sales tax. When really all they have to do is collect and pay it back to the state. /shrug. The only people this would effect is the TN residents that make purchases from amazon that live in TN. If they dont want to have to collect  as much sales tax from a state move your operations to canada and drive your packages to the the usa local UPS store. That or move your operations to Alaska where not nearly as many customers live and would still be glad to get a job there.

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Peanut Fox

That would work except that any savings to be made from sales tax would be lost in shipping, and it would most likely make Amazon's 2 day shipping harder to manage. 

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triclops41

jeidsamurai and maktaku,

 

amazon has every right to minimize its tax liabilities as long as its practices fall within the law.  i am willing to bet you two do not pay extra taxes come 4/15.

but you want amazon to, because it is a kor-por-ra-shun! right?

if only amazon would be a good horsey, like good ol boxer!

 

hypocrites...

 

you also probably think walmart has no right to have stores with non-union workers.

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fellowleo

No, the tax liability is not Amazon's. The tax liability are the residents of TN. THEY OWE THE TAX. Amazon is just suppose to collect it like every other Mom & Pop store in the State. When TN residents purchase something from the Web, they are suppose to pay the sales tax on it. If they don't pay at the checkout they suppose to pay on their tax filings. What Amazon wants is to let the people not pay at the checkout and pay at the filing, BUT whether you actually pay at the tax filing is...ahem... your business. They want the "implied" discount to their advantage. You can't walk out of a normal physical store and not pay the sales tax you should not be able to checkout of Amazon and not pay the sales tax. Don't like it? The do the Democratic Process and have the sales tax repealed. BTW the sales tax rule applies to EVERYONE. Even if you buy something from an out of state website you still owe sales tax in your home state. BTW2, as an incentive that some of the local govs use (or are forced to use) to attract the "big box" stores to their area, some "big box" retail chains make get to KEEP the sales tax they collect! That's right, you still pay it at the register, it still rings up as sales tax but they KEEP the money! How the heck do you think Mom & Pop gets to compete with that?

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Carlidan

Hypocrites? Amazon is trying every effort to evade paying state taxes.

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Peanut Fox

wouldn't you? 

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Carlidan

Nope. But I'm guessing you do.

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Peanut Fox

Yes.  If there was an agreement I could enter into with the government to pay less in taxes I would.  I wouldn't even need to think about it. 

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scclockdr

All commercial enterprises should be tax exempt. They simply pass their current tax burden on to end users as it is now so WE are the ones being taxed. Not the business owners.

 

Next they will want UPS to collect tax on delivered packages because they were sorted in state.

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fellowleo

When they get large enough and get enough tax lawyers, they can set up off shore tax vehicles and accounting tricks to be effectively are tax exempt. Trust me you probably pay more in taxes as a percentage of income than most fortune 500 companies. (Or the top 500 earners in the US for that matter)

UPS doesn't know how much the items in the boxes cost, and they don't want to.

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jedisamurai

Taxes are a good thing. They pay for the services that corporations would rather let fall apart and take money away from the rich to give to the poor. I'm a big fan of Amazon but the world would be a better place if they quit their tax doging ways.

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TRYER

If they don't like to get taxed and are losing money. they should leave and tell the state to go F themselves. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice and..." stupid politicians going back off their word again.

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don2041

DEATH & TAXES THEY BOTH GET YOU IN THE END

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wolfing

Walt Disney made similar deals for the theme parks. They don't pay property taxes, in exchange for maintaining the areas and giving jobs to thousands of people.  The tax comes in those thousands of people earning an income and paying taxes on that.  But guess state officials can't see past what's in front of their noses.

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Carlidan

http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=cabal-elite/corporate/taxhavens/disneyworld-cattle-tax-breaks.txt

http://corporate.disney.go.com/media/news/Fact_WDW_08_16.pdf

 

Well what I've read. Disney does property taxes.

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naxself

While I commend Tennessee for trying to have its cake and eat it, too, it's going to lose this battle. Amazon has a willingness to leave states that demand sales tax and that will be the case here. In the end, Amazon may end up in Louisiana or Arkansas or wherever and Tennessee will lose out.

Sales tax isn't crucial. Payroll tax and income tax are more important (although apparently there's no state income tax in Tennessee; I'm sure Amazon will have to pay higher property taxes, though). In short, this is a silly thing to fight over for Tennessee, esp. if Amazon saw the facility as one that would grow in the next 5-10 years.

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DasHellMutt

Deleted double post

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DasHellMutt

As a resident of Tennessee, I think the state should never have made any deal with them in the first place. Bringing in jobs is great. But when you give too many incentives and breaks to the company, you eat away at the positive impact those jobs have on the local economy. The lost revenue and even actual expendatures from the government to entice the company to open shop have to be paid by higher local taxes.

 

There is also the issue of companies leaving once their tax breaks and incentives run out. There has been speculation that Dell who has a presence in Nashville may pack up because their sweetheart deal is running out. This after they already screwed us once by not actually creating as many jobs as they were supposed to. They have already pulled this in several other states. I have no reason to believe that Amazon would be any more noble.

 

I say Amazon should play by the rules and the politicians should stop placating huge corporations in exchange for half hearted promises of what they can do for the local economy.

 

Also just wanted to mention that Tenessee doesn't have state income tax. This eliminates one of the possible areas where the government could recoup costs from the breaks they give big employers.

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lindethier

If they came to an arrangement beforehand, then the state should be honoring that agreement. If the state doesn't want to fufill their end of the deal, and doesn't want the additional jobs in their area, then I think Amazon is doing the right thing.

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TommM

Really, really stupid for TN go down this road.  As others have pointed out, they'll reap the benefits of other taxes plus jobs and had already negotiated this non sales-tax agreement with AMZ.

Would totally serve them right if AMZ pulled out and headed to greener pastures.

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